A woman finds the man she hates most in life ... and marries him.

I like the way Bill Hicks says it..

I think what he means is way outside the box. I kinda get what you mean woman are two faced. They will act the part, and when you turn your back they maybe doing something behind your back just to spite you. They are deviant. However; what the OP is probably getting to is a woman is the best defensive mechanism, but also have a good offensive mechanism as well. They can get away with just about anything as long as the woman plays the part correctly. Remember the movie Addams Family Values when Uncle Fester gets married to that crazy psychopath Debbie. She married a man whom she hated, and took advantage of him. Unfortunately for her, Gomez, and Morticia were smart enough to see through her facade.

I love very much.

One day when calling my Mom to tell her I love her,
my friends sitting around the living room looked at me aghast.

Reading their expressions I said
"What!? It doesn't cost anything. Is it really that hard to do."



Another example,
I find this video lovely.





My issue is with the prevelance of hate,
while it is simultaneously called Love.

Egregious does not even begin to cover the crime here.

/nod
David Grouchy

reply to post by Bluesma

.....for repulsion and attraction are ultimately the same thing

Cool cheese.

But I would not say they are the same thing, only sometimes. But they are two different side of the same coin, and one would not exist without the other. So you can not have one without the other.

Kind of reminds me of the intro song of married with children that was originally sung by Frank Sinatra "Love and marriage".

Its funny how much art imitates life, or life imitates art. But whatever the case, one cant exist without the other. And that show has hit many bulls eyes concerning life with its art. Only its more funnier when you watch it not live it.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


I feel the hypocrisy of 3, 4 letter words,daily.

Hate
Love
and you know the other one.

Great thread by the way.

S&F

reply to post by Astyanax

Well, yes. What do you think the purpose of life is? You are here to protect and reproduce your genes. You may think you’re a fine chap with consciousness of the world and lots of free will and an immortal soul and all the rest of the trimmings, but in reality you’re just a survival and reproduction machine for your genes.

The thing is Astyanax there is no true purpose to life....And there are many more ways to reproduce other then sexual reproduction. And believe it or not there are actual creature even in human form walking this planet who do exactly that.

Silo 13 is right, the whole thing ultimately is a controlling mechanism. But there are worse way to be controlled that is for sure.

Since we have wandered into the realm of love
in the course of examining the seething hatred
that underlies most relationships, I suppose
I should offer up my own personal definition of love.

Love is a code word for skill.

We like to do what we are good at.
We have an intimate relationship with things we are skilled at.
Most of the couples counseling I have done has been easily solved
by letting them vent, then telling them "Do you know why Married
couples argue? Because they are still learning how to listen
to each other."

When relationships break or end,
there is usually a frenzied round of the blame game
and devious acts to preserve one's own reputation in the affair.
But the simple fact of the matter is a lack of skill in
the relationship overtook the desire to gain that skill.

Love is a code word for skill.
Nothing more.

But of course telling people that doesn't sell any soap,
cars, or phone plans, so....
Yeah.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


So reminds me of some lyrics to a song..............



Oceans

As far as I can see, you and I are valentines for all we know
As far as I can see, you already bear the scars of love

These are the loaded words
Spoken in coded terms
If spoken at all

I’m outside your tower, baby – I can set you free
What’s it gonna take to make you love me?
I’ll do all that’s necessary – tell me what you need
What’s it gonna take to make you love me?
Flowers on flowers? Love and devotion?
Hours and hours staring at the ocean?

As far as I can tell, you are well
But I’m not sure that’s all you’re after
As far as I can tell, you’re still running from the arms of love

Love is a loaded word
Spoken in coded terms
If spoken at all

I’m outside your tower, baby – I can set you free
What’s it gonna take to make you love me?
I’ll do all that’s necessary – tell me what you need
What’s it gonna take to make you love me?
Flowers on flowers? Love and devotion?
Hours and hours staring at the ocean?

But some words carve through true
I’m still in love with you
Like the ocean…

Ocean’s a perfect word
Spoken in perfect terms
If spoken at all

I’m outside your tower, baby – I can set you free
What’s it gonna take to make you love me?
I’ll do all that’s necessary – tell me what you need
What’s it gonna take to make you love me?
Flowers on flowers? Love and devotion?
Hours and hours staring at the ocean?

Staring at the ocean…

Classic IV - Stormy

I just had to post this song. Here are the lyrics.

Stormy

By Dennis Yost and the Classic IV


You were the sunshine, baby, whenever you smiled
But I call you Stormy today
All of a sudden that ole rain's fallin' down
And my world is cloudy and gray
You've gone away
Oh Stormy, oh Stormy
Bring back that sunny day

Yesterday's love was like a warm summer breeze
But, like the weather ya changed
Now things are dreary, baby
And it's windy and cold
And I stand alone in the rain
Callin' your name
Oh Stormy, oh Stormy
Bring back that sunny day

[Instrumental break]

Oh Stormy, oh Stormy
Bring back that sunny day

Bring back that sunny day

Oh Stormy,
[Fade]
Oh Stormy

I think it was too early to stumble on to this thread. I am a bit bamboozled. I suppose if a woman already hates the bloke she's marrying that saves a lot of time "de dush dush" ah anyway. What?

Originally posted by davidgrouchy
Since we have wandered into the realm of love
in the course of examining the seething hatred
that underlies most relationships, I suppose
I should offer up my own personal definition of love.

Love is a code word for skill.

I find myself smiling
I would say love is the code word for "desire to learn new skills" ?
Relationship is the process of learning skills?

My husband and I are opposites in every way possible.
I often wondered what the hell we are doing together!
I was ferociously independant, non-social, rejected material possession and sensual pleasure,
serious and responsible, logical and severe, trusting only my reason and my mind.

He was social and extroverted, being alone was his idea of hell, a collector of several types of objects, joyous and carefree, trusting in nature and others, his emotions being his compass, and terribly sensual in nature, valuing the arts, music, food, beauty..

Physically we are complete opposites reflecting the stereotypes (me typical blond tall aryan type, him shorter muscular latin type)

We come from different cultures, almost diametrically opposed in value systems, and have completely different interests. He felt that thinking is dangerous, it makes you depressed and alcoholic. I thought that feeling is dangerous, it makes you depressed and alcoholic.

But the sex is incredibly fantastic. (and yeah, we popped out a few kids, but now we just revel in heights of sexual experience we didn't know were possible- for the fun of it)

The fact is, being with someone so completely different, so obviously undeniably on a different wavelength, makes it easier to stop and think "wait...maybe we're just not understanding each other here????" and we learned to communicate (the fact we spoke different languages kinda forced that realization on us too.)

So what happens through the years? I began to see the value in his ways, he began to see the values in my ways, we began to be better balanced as individuals.

I suspect
If your mate seems to be very similar to yourself,
You could have much more tendancy to assume you KNOW what they mean, what they feel, what they are expressing,
without actually asking them and listening.
You get lazy about that.

The more different they are from yourself,
the more you are kept on your toes!!

reply to post by davidgrouchy


Oh yes the temple of Ishtar the goddess of love fertility and war, or Inanna or any other name that she is know by today. For love and war go together, as does fertility and there all linked together in a chain that lead to each-other.

And if you would look at the world of today, things go in this order. Love then war which eventually leads to fertility. Even in the more famous wars of today, it still follows the same pattern. Something like in WW2 were they all marched for there loves, be they country or a woman or whatever...And after it was all done, a new age was born ie fertility, an age we still live in now. At least till the cycle repeats itself, and we go into another age.

However yes your right op, were still following the tradition all the way from back in sumer, and in Gilgamesh's time. And the patterns are all the same with veriations here and there, and offcourse under different names. Even the woman and the coin has not changed much, nor the paths of war.

And even back then the same problems persisted that we have today. And even for Gilgamesh a most manliest of men.

And Ishtar well the only way you could keep that one away was to throw things at her to make her go away, for she got around. And if she did not get her way then she would go crying to her father the high god Anu or Sin or all the other names he is known by.
www.aina.org...

Gilgamesh opened his mouth and answered glorious Ishtar, 'If I take you in marriage, what gifts can I give in return? What ointments and clothing for your body? I would gladly give you bread and all sorts of food fit for a god. I would give you wine to drink fit for a queen. I would pour out barley to stuff your granary; but as for making you my wife - that I will not. How would it go with me?

Your lovers have found you like a brazier which smoulders in the cold, a backdoor which keeps out neither squall of wind nor storm, a castle which crushes the garrison, pitch that blackens the bearer, a water-skin that chafes the carrier, a stone which falls from the parapet, a battering-ram turned back from the enemy, a sandal that trips the wearer. Which of your lovers did you ever love for ever? What shepherd of yours has pleased you for all time? Listen to me while I tell the tale of your lovers.

There was Tammuz, the lover of your youth, for him you decreed wailing, year after year. You loved the many coloured roller, but still you struck and broke his wing; now in the grove he sits and cries, "kappi, kappi, my wing, my wing." You have loved the lion tremendous in strength: seven pits you dug for him, and seven. You have loved the stallion magnificent in battle, and for him you decreed whip and spur and a thong, to gallop seven leagues by force and to muddy the water before he drinks; and for his mother Silili lamentations. You have loved the shepherd of the flock; he made meal-cake for you day after day, he killed kids for your sake. You struck and turned him into a wolf, now his own herd-boys chase him away, his own hounds worry his flanks.

And did you not love Ishullanu, the gardener of your father's palm grove? He brought you baskets filled with dates without end; every day he loaded your table. Then you turned your eyes on him and said, "Dearest Ishullanu, come here to me, let us enjoy your manhood, come forward and take me, I am yours.' Ishullanu answered, "What are you asking from me? My mother has baked and I have eaten; why should I come to such as you for food that is tainted and rotten? For when was a screen of rushes sufficient protection from frosts?"

But when you had beard his answer you struck him. He was changed to a blind mole deep in the earth, one whose desire is always beyond his reach. And if you and I should be lovers, should not I be served in the same fashion as all these others whom you loved once?'

Oh yes loves a bitch literally.

reply to post by davidgrouchy

Love is a code word for skill.

You know what davidgrouchy.....That is so crazy, that it just might be true.

So I guess all of us male sexual losers that end up on ATS just don't have no skills, hows your game grouchy have you been honing up on your skills.

reply to post by davidgrouchy




lol im nt a prick n i get loads of girls! seems like smes angry witthere life! ;p

reply to post by Astyanax

I'm not a 'chap' - I'm a woman - and one who finds there's a lot more to the 'meaning of life' than to procreate. So so much more!

And no, that's not a cheap attempt at a 'second line' that's my truth. To sit and list all the wonderful things life holds - that does not include sex? It would take all day - and I'd rather be out enjoying and doing all those things than listing them here!

Also - anyone who can't see through the glaring obviousness or everything around (people, media, religion, etc) you using sex to control you?

Open your eyes...

EDIT TO ADD

Love is a code word for skill.
Nothing more.

Can't hit the nail on the head much truer than that.
Wonderful line of thinking. Thank you.

peace

reply to post by davidgrouchy

Oh, please don't misunderstand me.

I think we understand each other quite well, though you may be taking this a little too seriously... and personally.

We seem to be in the area of "reputation space" where one plays to the audience more than addressing the ideas.

There is no other space; all communications are for the benefit of the sender. The benefit I’m seeking is entertainment, at your expense. In exchange, I freely urge you to obtain some at mine.

And inside "reputation space" the current zeit geist is that sexual celibacy is a heinous crime to be treated by professional care providers.

Ah, but if you met some of the providers I’ve met...

But seriously, no-one’s calling celibacy a crime, or even a defeat, except perhaps dear old Ma Nature. But then, you know how obsessed she is with having grandchildren; she’ll stick at nothing to get them.

Is virginity valueless?

Not on the Indian marriage market, it isn’t.

Even from the perspective of our genes?

I’m sure those with serious hereditary defects should be encouraged to stay virgins. Or at least, to be very careful.

Either money is about food or it is about sex. Which paradigm do you suspect we are swimming in now.

It is only ever about sex. The food is just fuel.

reply to post by Astyanax



I’m sure those with serious hereditary defects should be encouraged to stay virgins. Or at least, to be very careful.

Thats disguisting! there is no place 4 that in the world i wuld like 2 live in!

Originally posted by Astyanax

Either money is about food or it is about sex. Which paradigm do you suspect we are swimming in now.

It is only ever about sex. The food is just fuel.

I submit to you that from the rise of Christianity till the industrial revolution,
money was about food.

Money being about sex is the unchained beast let loose at the end for it's last rampage.
Specificially to wage war on the virgins.

And I'm talking about male virginity here especially.
Something that is harassed and ridiculed.
Subjected to peer pressure,
and the plot of hollywood
comedies.


David Grouchy

See what I mean.

Virginity has zero value in this world.

This sick twisted demanding needy self centered planet.

Somehow if I'm not out there representing the birth control industry
with zesty pagan lust,
I'm automatically less than human and worthy of derision.

As an outside observer,
let me tell you one thing about you so called humans.

It's about hate,
not about love.

Quit lying to yourselves.

You're not alone. As a 28yr old celibate female, I've been met with disbelief and a lot of criticism (that's unnatural, suppressive, puritanistic, extremist, blah, blah, blah). Hardly does anyone actually ask me why I've made this decision OR how this decision has affected my life. Instead, they proceed to tell me how awful it *must* be for me. Ultimately, it just doesn't matter how the world views your decision. Peace bro.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird

Greetings, O Warrior Kitten.

The thing is Astyanax there is no true purpose to life...

Of course there isn’t, not if by purpose you mean that someone decided, once and for all, ‘this is what life is for’. But life acts as though it has a purpose, and that purpose seems to be to perpetuate itself. All life comes with that program, that ‘purpose’, built in. And all the behaviour of all known life is directed towards that end. Even paradoxical, self-destructive urges like drug addiction can convincingly be traced to malfunctions of this imperative.

Despite being conscious and sentient, we humans are as much slaves to it as any rabbit or slime mould. It is, as david grouchy says, the water we swim in. All civilization, all cultural achievement, all military victories, all great artistic statements, even religion itself owes its existence to this inexorable impetus to go on, to live, to reproduce, to perpetuate. It may not be a ‘purpose’ in the sense that no-one originally willed it, but it has all the other marks of purpose; sufficient, I think, for us to call it that.

And there are many more ways to reproduce other then sexual reproduction. And believe it or not there are actual creature even in human form walking this planet who do exactly that.

I should be charmed, and astonished, to be introduced to a human being who does not reproduce sexually. I wasn’t aware techniques of cloning had advanced so far already.

Unless, of course, you mean something unusual by ‘reproduction’. Perhaps what you mean is that there are other ways to make your mark on the world besides bringing more children into it. I couldn’t agree more; in fact, that is exactly what I try to do – leave something behind for others to remember me by, positively I hope.

Silo 13 is right, the whole thing ultimately is a controlling mechanism.

Of course it’s a controlling mechanism. But it’s not a conspiracy. Nature is the one pulling the strings.