Reincarnation Theories/Question?

Sometimes I will literally just get in a zone and think the craziest things, but I was wondering about reincarnation. If we die, and are born again in a different body, does that mean that there is 1st?

Same as the "what came first.... the chicken or the egg"? Can the same thing apply to us? Is there a way for us to reconnect "eventually" to our first body? Could that be the purpose of reincarnation in the first place?

Here is a photo that I saw that had my mind racing, and asking the above questions.



I have been looking into the concept of reincarnation, and this seems to be the most puzzling for me so far, and has slightly halted my further research, as I think that someone else may have better insight into this.

Thanks in advance, NRE.

I do not exactly understand what you mean.

Imo the body is our vessel and when it dies our soul at some point chooses to be born into a new body.

So I don´t think you are connected to your old body when you enter a new life.

What puzzles you about reincarnation? The possibility? Going back eventually to your "first" body? I am not so sure you would ever go back to that first body due to each circumstance is different upon coming back as a human. You may even evolve to a different kind of species whereas you would not need a human body anyway. Just my thoughts....nothing more.

Peace and love to you and yours!!!!!!!! xoxoxox

Jenn

As far as I'm concerned the very same thing happens to us when we die as happens to any other creature from elephants to bacteria. We decompose, we are eaten by other animals and bacteria which in turn dies and is processed by something else. The cycle continues.
Today we can analyse the brain, we know which areas are responsible for memory, processing visual information, emotions, etc. These are elements previously attributed to the soul. We also know that when these areas of the brain are damaged we lose the abilities they give us. The elements of our personality(/soul) are a product of the individual workings of our brains just like everyones face looks different but is still compossed of eyes, mouth, nose, etc. When you die this is lost and your body is recycled.
The concept of reincarnation alleviates the fear of death, its a morale booster to counteract fear.

Nice painting though

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


Although none of us can say for sure, the Bible does hint in several places about rebirth into the material world. I follow the Bible as the root of all knowledge, so I'll answer from scripture. Here are a few references:

I'll start with the one verse that contradicts reincarnation and then point out why it may be saying something else.

Hebrews 9:27 is often quoted as saying that we live once. This may not be the case if you read the very next verse.

27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

If you read this far, it seems that we only live once then judgment. My questions to ponder are these: If there is a final judgment, does this assume previous judgments? If the person dies once, does the soul live in another person? These are two loopholes that need honest consideration. The next verse also hints at another way of looking at this.

28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Who is waiting? Where are they waiting? Salvation seems to be a future event.

The next verse comes from Job 2

3 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

4 “Skin for skin!” Satan replied.

Job's children had been killed by Satan. When God points this out, Satan simply says skin for skin. Why does a snake say skin for skin? When a snake sheds one skin, it is still the same snake on the inside. He seems to suggest that the children will return in a different skin.

The next reference is the most telling. John 3 states that "We must be born again." For me, this seems to say that there is no other option. Jesus gives two ways to be born. First, we are born in the water. In the Ancient Hebrew, water is blood. Water is also what makes up most of the body and blood. The second way to be born is in the Spirit. The question becomes this: How many times can we be born in the water before we find union with the spirit?

As far as I can tell, the union of the sperm and egg is not the last union. Gaining union seems to be the process followed. By loving our mate, we gain union and make new life. By loving God, we gain union with the spirit and are "Born again" into the next realm on the tree of life. This makes your body a placenta and the earth a womb. This makes sense when you examine the environment of nature up close.

There are also other references here and there in the Bible. As far as the Christian who claims that reincarnation is not possible, I would simply point out the fact that we are born once. This make one. We are born into our glorified body. This makes two. Why do we limit God to just these two? Read Hebrews 9:27-28 again and I think you may agree that it is possible we are all generations that the Bible speaks to throughout the ages. The Bible always speaks to all of us, as if we have always been here and as if we will always be here.

How about hell? Many of the references in the Bible are not literal, but symbolic. Baptism for instance is being born into the material world. Raising to new life is being born again. The veil over the temple is the veil of forgetfulness over the mind. The body is the temple since the Spirit of God is within us. The flaming sword in Genesis 3 is the consuming fire of the Spirit that works on our soul. Hell? What is hell then if all the others are symbolic? Well, it could be literal. I say it is the hell we create in each life. This hell compounds by our thoughts, words and deeds. As for the final judgment, I would be weary of this final judgment. I think it is very clear that the final judgment after the 1000 year reign of Christ will be a burning abyss. The best option would be to seek a loving relationship with God. Only the saved will enter the kingdom of Christ for 1000 years. After this time, the previous lost will raise to new life again and then be destroyed with Satan.

Consider this: What do we do in this life? We think and we move. I defy anyone to name one thing we do other than think and move. All the other billions of things that happen in this life are done by some other process. We merely ride the body to sense the world. The body functions have nothing to do with us. We merely think and move. The rest is on autopilot. The sun shines and the earth revolves. Our hair grows and our eyes see. We do none of it. We can only use thought, word and deed. That's it. We are judged on these three. Our actions and thoughts are important.

My overall point? Love God. Find out what's next.

Real question is.. When do we stop reincarnating and stay in our one body?....Soon i hope

Originally posted by rabzdguy
Real question is.. When do we stop reincarnating and stay in our one body?....Soon i hope

Yes, actually from what I see in the racial/collective unconscious of humanity, we are heading into the area of space where the frequency is higher, which will allow us to make full enlightenment which includes being able to shift our bodies into a spirit/light state. In that state, we will never die again. We can come back to the physical state as we choose though, and whatever might be wrong with the body can be fixed in the enlightened state.
So get busy with doing your personal growth work--clear all the dark spots from your psyche and body as much as possible. And get ready!

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
Sometimes I will literally just get in a zone and think the craziest things, but I was wondering about reincarnation. If we die, and are born again in a different body, does that mean that there is 1st?

Same as the "what came first.... the chicken or the egg"? Can the same thing apply to us? Is there a way for us to reconnect "eventually" to our first body? Could that be the purpose of reincarnation in the first place?

Here is a photo that I saw that had my mind racing, and asking the above questions.

I have been looking into the concept of reincarnation, and this seems to be the most puzzling for me so far, and has slightly halted my further research, as I think that someone else may have better insight into this.

Thanks in advance, NRE.

Since I remember pretty clearly a number of past lives, I can say that indeed we do reincarnate. The purpose is to learn and grow into the best, truest self possible, but still be able to maintain full connection to the energy field of the universe. The 'self' part of us brings our unique contribution to the whole and makes it fuller, richer, more creative, plus we'll need to be 'selves' to do the task the overarching sentience of the universe has planned for us.

And what I've found is that many of us aren't human in spirit origins, so until you can make enlightenment, you aren't going to be able to go back to your 'first' type of body. Plus avoiding reincarnation as a human is almost impossible on here on earth. And most of us let ourselves end up human so we could be on track for making full enlightenment.

So going back to our first style body would be counter productive. Although once we make enlightenment, we can shift into what ever alien body type we want, and when we shift back into our physical form, we'll be that type of alien. I intend to spend some time flying with the dragons, myself.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


I like how the sign of infinity is around death and life. That is an interesting photo, any idea where you found it, and when it was drawn?

reply to post by Fretless


You are a perfect candidate to join the contest! Hurry! Sighn up today and prove your point! Here ya go!

As it happens so often when people discuss whether or not there is reincarnation, the words "We" and to a lesser extent "Me" and "I" are used. The majority of debaters or inquirers somehow have an unwritten agreement that the reality or nature of these personal pronouns does not require debate, i.e. they are the one part of the equation that is understood and agreed upon. The agreed question at hand is what happens to "We", "Us", "I" and "Me".

People are interested in the past i.e. "Where do we come from?" and in the future, i.e. "Where are we going?" But few ask the question, "Who am I?" That seems to be known, that is, the present is not in question.

I myself ask the question, "Who or what am I?" Because without knowing that, how can I know who or what will, or will not be, reincarnated?

And it seems most inquirers into this matter not only do not question who or what they are, but also they know who or what I am too, as they use the collective personal pronoun "We".

A subject such as reincarnation is in the realm of metaphysics and even complex intuitive sciences. But even in basic physical and psychological sciences, the identity crisis and misunderstandings persist. How often do I see on ATS such statements (mostly from Americans) to the tune of:

"We landed on the moon."

"We invaded Afghanistan because...."

"We cannot afford to support the unemployed...."

"We dropped the Atom bomb on Japan because..."

(This final statement from a person not even alive when the bomb was dropped on Japan.)

Then this same person will feel qualified to discuss whether reincarnation is fact or fiction?

For people who use this collective American personal pronoun "We" if reincarnation does exist then you are going to be "reborn in the USA" (To as Springsteen beat) and your soul will be a collective one, divided into many bodies of fellow 'Merkans following the 'Merkan way'. (whatever that is)

Reincarnation is not concerned with collectives, it is concerned with individualized consciousness. Until that individuation is realized and freed from collectivism, and perceived in the here and now, then to speculate upon reincarnation is merely a philosophical folly.

Originally posted by Golden Rule
As it happens so often when people discuss whether or not there is reincarnation, the words "We" and to a lesser extent "Me" and "I" are used...

*snip to avoid being slapped with excessive quoting charge*

Reincarnation is not concerned with collectives, it is concerned with individualized consciousness. Until that individuation is realized and freed from collectivism, and perceived in the here and now, then to speculate upon reincarnation is merely a philosophical folly.

So, you are saying that because you don't have any of these answers, no one does or even can? Nice of you to decide all that for us, eh??

And no, we didn't land on the moon, at least not the first mission, although later on we probably did.

We invaded Afghanistan because we've let some very bad people into positions of power in our government and they hate the arabs and want to destroy and impoverish them.

We can't support the unemployed because these bad people want fewer humans, and want more money for themselves.

We dropped the atom bomb(s) on Japan because 1) TPTB wanted to see what they'd do, and 2) it would have taken a LOT longer to win the war if we'd tried to dig them out as was done on Okinawa.

And anyone alive when they dropped the a-bombs in Japan would be at least in their mid 60's. So yah, I'm guessing most on here aren't going to qualify for 'expert' status by your standards. And really, that's like saying 'you can't accurately understand the roman empire because you weren't there, so obviously you can't understand reincarnation'. Trying to cobble those two things together as if they are somehow related doesn't really prove anything except some lack of understanding on your part as to what a successful analogy might be.

And I see very clearly who I am, and who I've been, and where I am going, in part because I can see into the racial/collective unconscious where all the information of humanity resides---past, present and future. So, I see what 'we' humans tend to do, or not. But since it isn't usually at the individual *I* level, instead more about the *we* patterns, like a salmon migration versus the single salmon, I tend to use the word *we* when I talk about what I see there. But before I could consciously connect to the racial unconscious, I was already remembering a lot of past lives, including the pre-human ones where I was a dragonrider, a 7+' velociraptor type being but with better upper arm development. So there is a very big *I* in my recollections of reincarnation.

And heck no, we aren't going to all end up like raindrops in the ocean, plop and you're gone. We will stay selves, and we'll need to be strong ones, once we hit full enlightenment. In that state, you are fully and relentlessly connected to the universal energy field which is comprised of everything. If you don't know who YOU are, you'll just lose track of your 'self' and end up dissipating back into the 'ocean' like that lost little rain drop. You'll lose your body aka die, and you end up just reincarnating again with all the hassles and limitations of doing so.

reply to post by DragonriderGal


Flown right into it haven't you dragon riding gal?

How can you understand who you are when you are identifying with what you aren't?

And no, we didn't land on the moon, at least not the first mission, although later on we probably did.

Didn't we? Did we?

Were you one of the astronauts? Glad you got back safely.

We invaded Afghanistan because we've let some very bad people into positions of power in our government and they hate the arabs and want to destroy and impoverish them.

Were you a member of the U.S. armed forces in Afghanistan? Well glad you got back in one piece. Peace!

We dropped the atom bomb(s) on Japan because 1) TPTB wanted to see what they'd do, and 2) it would have taken a LOT longer to win the war if we'd tried to dig them out as was done on Okinawa.

Why are you taking responsibility for the dropping of the A-Bomb? Do you take responsibility for every individual murder that occurs too? Or is it just mass murders you own up to being a co-conspiritor of?

So, you are saying that because you don't have any of these answers, no one does or even can? Nice of you to decide all that for us, eh??

I think you must have your wires crossed here somewhere dragon rider. I never said I dont have any of the answers, and neither have I decided anything for anyone.

Originally posted by Golden Rule
reply to post by DragonriderGal

 

Flown right into it haven't you dragon riding gal?

How can you understand who you are when you are identifying with what you aren't?

And no, we didn't land on the moon, at least not the first mission, although later on we probably did.

Didn't we? Did we?

Were you one of the astronauts? Glad you got back safely.

We invaded Afghanistan because we've let some very bad people into positions of power in our government and they hate the arabs and want to destroy and impoverish them.

Were you a member of the U.S. armed forces in Afghanistan? Well glad you got back in one piece. Peace!

We dropped the atom bomb(s) on Japan because 1) TPTB wanted to see what they'd do, and 2) it would have taken a LOT longer to win the war if we'd tried to dig them out as was done on Okinawa.

Why are you taking responsibility for the dropping of the A-Bomb? Do you take responsibility for every individual murder that occurs too? Or is it just mass murders you own up to being a co-conspiritor of?

So, you are saying that because you don't have any of these answers, no one does or even can? Nice of you to decide all that for us, eh??

I think you must have your wires crossed here somewhere dragon rider. I never said I dont have any of the answers, and neither have I decided anything for anyone.

Wow, you aren't very good at this, are you? You actually think I 'flew right into it'?? Like I said, wow.

You totally ignore most of my post to focus on what seems an attempt to belittle and ridicule me about what I see in the racial/collective unconscious as the answers to your silly questions. And most of those assumptions in your responses are quite weird and not really responding to my answers at all. I see the stuff in the racial/collective unconscious. I don't need to be there, but I guess that might be a hard concept to grasp. Sorry if I went over your head, eh?

And really, your analogy about someone who wasn't alive to see Hiroshima or Nagasaki not being able to have any proper understanding of it (false to begin with) is somehow related to how they then couldn't understand reincarnation, was so meaningless. Explain to me how those go together, ok??

You do however very much act as if you have the answers albeit you are much too 'humble' to say that. So you use a patronizing tone, and psydo-intellectual statements to make it seem as if you are just trying to explain something so simple to a bunch of idiots aka you do know better than the rest of us.

And I know exactly who I am. And I know exactly who I am not. That's the whole point of living... to learn those very basic but yet extremely difficult things. No where did I say I only know who I am because I know who I'm not. Creative writing 101, eh?

I remember various past lives. And so I believe in reincarnation.

I think that we experience multiple lives individually and as a complement of a unity consciousness. It also seems to be a theorem of justice. For me, it simply glues everything together as common sense. It also explains certain behaviors and inner talents. It certainly explains certain phobias and handicaps.

As our minds and hearts learn through experiences of life, our souls learn through reincarnation.

Originally posted by rabzdguy
Real question is.. When do we stop reincarnating and stay in our one body?....Soon i hope

Same here.

Still spooked by what my family told me as I grew up about myself as a 4 year old blurting out that I was a fighter pilot in WW2, that I knew of Edith Piaf and that I was shot down.

Not things a 4 year old could say or imagine in such detail as I think you'll agree. Especially the Edith Piaf name (what British 4 year old child even knows the name of current home grown singers let alone foreign ones not really mentioned or known elsewhere from 40 years previously?)

I also have a massive fear of getting my face wet. I have to use wet wipes to clean my face because having my face under the shower or spashing water on my face for a quick wash panics me into finding it difficult to breathe properly so I have a theory I drowned in a previous life because there's nothing in this one that made me afraid of such a thing.

I believe a little in the higher density stuff and becoming the all powerful figure we were apparently meant to be that can traverse time, space and everything in between but I hope it happens soon and we can all live much more peacefully with no death or disease.

Originally posted by curious7

Originally posted by rabzdguy
Real question is.. When do we stop reincarnating and stay in our one body?....Soon i hope

Same here.

Still spooked by what my family told me as I grew up about myself as a 4 year old blurting out that I was a fighter pilot in WW2, that I knew of Edith Piaf and that I was shot down.

Not things a 4 year old could say or imagine in such detail as I think you'll agree. Especially the Edith Piaf name (what British 4 year old child even knows the name of current home grown singers let alone foreign ones not really mentioned or known elsewhere from 40 years previously?)

I also have a massive fear of getting my face wet. I have to use wet wipes to clean my face because having my face under the shower or spashing water on my face for a quick wash panics me into finding it difficult to breathe properly so I have a theory I drowned in a previous life because there's nothing in this one that made me afraid of such a thing.

I believe a little in the higher density stuff and becoming the all powerful figure we were apparently meant to be that can traverse time, space and everything in between but I hope it happens soon and we can all live much more peacefully with no death or disease.

I agree that no 4 year-old is going to know about either WWII or artists from decades previous, british or not, unless their folks listen to that artist.

And yes, that is exactly the type of thing I am talking about, as an indication of past lives. Those left over fears and longings that make NO sense in the context of this life. I, for example, longed for the ocean. I felt desolate if I couldn't get out there every couple months. I am from Washington state, in the Puget sound area though, and the ocean is a hop skip and jump away, very accessible, but yet I longed for it all the time.

Then I remembered my most recent past life. My dad in that life was a doctor and so we were very well off, and I had all that my heart desired. I summered in the Martha's vineyard area, in a beautiful victorian type home there on the beach. I spent a lot of time on the beach, playing in the ocean. As a young woman, foolishly in love, I agreed to go West with my new husband to start a new life. Well, to me West meant Oregon.. and the ocean of course.

Unfortunately, to my husband, it meant Nebraska and 40 acres of grassland which he farmed. So everyday, I got up, looked out at the never-ending dry rustling grass fields with the waves of wind passing over them reminiscent of my beloved ocean, but so NOT my beloved ocean which only made me miss the ocean even more. I hated my life and by the end, my husband for dragging me to such a horrible desolate place. Finally when he died, I attended his funeral with my bags packed, and left on the very next train to Oregon.

So that longing wasn't about this life at all! And once I realized it was only at the spirit level I longed for the ocean from a life and experience that was now over, the longing has pretty much subsided.

The 'densities', from what I see, are just some kind of alien-driven hyperbole which is meant to make them seem sooo wise. But yes, once we start making full enlightenment, we will be all those things you said when we shift into our spirit/light bodies. And the world will be a much better place because the current abusive PTB leadership will be removed from our world and sent back in time to help another round of spirits be ready for this time of making enlightenment.

reply to post by DragonriderGal


You seem to infer quite a great deal it seems, past life rider of dragons. I wish to make a distinction between the collective conscious and unconscious and the individualized consciousness. If I simply state: "There is a difference between social group consciousness and the consciousness of the self-actualized individual. Only the latter form of awareness is capable of knowing exactly what it is that can or cannot be reincarnated; 'WE' cannot, only 'I' can".

Then it appears not a little dry and even more so will I be accused by such as you of being pseudo-intellectual, smug, or in possession of a superiority complex etc etc. So I make a simple example that anyone can understand to avoid being misinterpreted (NOT misunderstood) Now someone such as yourself will accuse me of being patronizing.

If someone who was not alive at the time of the American nuclear bombing of Japan in 1945 can say, "we dropped the bomb on the Japanese for so and so reason." Then, they can claim the title of "we" to any and every act in human history. This is what you seem to be proposing. So I can say, "We killed General George Custer at the Little Big Horn because......" Can I?

It wasn't being patronizing at all. Yes it is simple to me and so that's how I tell it.

And really, your analogy about someone who wasn't alive to see Hiroshima or Nagasaki not being able to have any proper understanding of it (false to begin with) is somehow related to how they then couldn't understand reincarnation, was so meaningless. Explain to me how those go together, ok??

Okay, I will explain what I mean and what I didn't mean. I did not mean that someone who was not alive when Hiroshima or Nagasaki were bombed could not have any proper understanding of the event. I simply said that if they use the personal pronoun "We" in the context of "We bombed Japan because..etc...etc" then they are not at a stage of development yet to understand who or what can or cannot be reincarnated.

Okay, just in case you are still prepared to misunderstand - can the same person say: "We had the atom bomb dropped on us...because...etc...etc"??

Identification with nationality is not identification with the human collective mind as you are arguing that you are doing.

Originally posted by Golden Rule
As it happens so often when people discuss whether or not there is reincarnation, the words "We" and to a lesser extent "Me" and "I" are used. The majority of debaters or inquirers somehow have an unwritten agreement that the reality or nature of these personal pronouns does not require debate, i.e. they are the one part of the equation that is understood and agreed upon. The agreed question at hand is what happens to "We", "Us", "I" and "Me".

People are interested in the past i.e. "Where do we come from?" and in the future, i.e. "Where are we going?" But few ask the question, "Who am I?" That seems to be known, that is, the present is not in question.

I myself ask the question, "Who or what am I?" Because without knowing that, how can I know who or what will, or will not be, reincarnated?

And it seems most inquirers into this matter not only do not question who or what they are, but also they know who or what I am too, as they use the collective personal pronoun "We".

A subject such as reincarnation is in the realm of metaphysics and even complex intuitive sciences. But even in basic physical and psychological sciences, the identity crisis and misunderstandings persist. How often do I see on ATS such statements (mostly from Americans) to the tune of:

"We landed on the moon."

"We invaded Afghanistan because...."

"We cannot afford to support the unemployed...."

"We dropped the Atom bomb on Japan because..."

(This final statement from a person not even alive when the bomb was dropped on Japan.)

Then this same person will feel qualified to discuss whether reincarnation is fact or fiction?

For people who use this collective American personal pronoun "We" if reincarnation does exist then you are going to be "reborn in the USA" (To as Springsteen beat) and your soul will be a collective one, divided into many bodies of fellow 'Merkans following the 'Merkan way'. (whatever that is)

Reincarnation is not concerned with collectives, it is concerned with individualized consciousness. Until that individuation is realized and freed from collectivism, and perceived in the here and now, then to speculate upon reincarnation is merely a philosophical folly.

Its real easy to bash a bunch of people you don't live around and don't know jack # about except what you see on the TV. Or the tele if your sitting where I'm guessing you are cousin. Anyways, my point is we've got the same basic problems and the same redeeming qualities, your people and mine, regardless of whoever your people might be. So get of your high horse.

reply to post by RatoAstuto

Anyways, my point is we've got the same basic problems and the same redeeming qualities, your people and mine, regardless of whoever your people might be. So get of your high horse.

That's just the point I've been trying to make Jack. I don't have any people who I identify with in a group context. I am not the Borg and I have not been assimilated. You can't help but defend your American conditioning can you?

And I am not on any high horse, nor dragon either.