Inside info on Seal Team 6 shootdown

reply to post by zerotime


I don’t actually believe the claim’s that he has made.

That being said however you never really know he could have a friend who is the chef at Langley and has overheard a conversation. It’s very easy to call someone a liar, I am not saying for a minute that I believe him but there is nothing in the OP that screams out to me that he is making this up so am not hitting my BS button just yet.

Most forget that age old saying "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Makes sense, as most viable options are not connecting as others.

reply to post by macman


We have another saying like yours......

when two enemies find a common goal they unite

reply to post by bluemirage5


It never fails to amaze me that people on ATS can never just accept that a helicopter crash is just a helicopter crash. Choppers crash, sometimes SF units travel via Chopper so eventually a helicopter is going to crash and be full of SF.

Occam’s Razor people!

How many choppers have actually been shot down by the Taliban though in the whole of this 'campaign' - I don't recall that many - please correct me if I am wrong!

A VERY BIG coincidence me thinks, that the SEAL team that were involved with the alledged killing of OBL was on board, far too much for my liking

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


Us Australians have had our fair share of military helicopter crashes but this is not simply just a helicopter crash......this helicopter with 31 elite Seals was hit by the Taliban or some other Afghani militant group. There mere mention of the particular Seals group is facinating in itself....it just was'nt any other Seals unit but it had to be this particular one....and so many in one hit? This is the second time this has happened in Afghanistan; what were the chances of it happening a 2nd time? The Seals learn from their mistakes and rarely ever make the same mistake twice.

Why did the botched "OBL" mission even come in to it? It should'nt had been mentioned in the first place.

Action, reaction, action, reaction, etc...

This shouldn't be a hard concept for ATSers to grasp. The USA are not world police.

America is pissed off they got attacked back in 2001, fine. We all get it, a terrible thing happened. But Americans let justice slip away in their blind seething rage and quest for vengeance. An assassination is not justice no matter which monkey declares it to be. When the US government gave the order, "Execute!" they tarnished even further the reputation of Americans worldwide.

Leaders must be held accountable, America doesn't hold its leaders accountable for anything. There comes a point when you either give up, lay down and die or stand up and fight. THE WORLD SEES AMERICA LAYING DOWN AND DYING. Apparently, it is up to us to stand.

Most Americans would agree that only Americans can judge their leaders, but what can we do as citizens of Earth when America no longer cares how their leaders treat humanity? Are we to stand by and allow the USA to assassinate our public? Free Thinkers? Leaders? When do we get to say enough is enough and fight back? There is too much at stake for the rest of us to lie down, turn on Dancing With the Puppets and Jersey Snore, and not care. We cannot be like America.

Our idiotic, broken political systems are failing world wide and what I see is sickening. Joe American, Suzy Q.; Public, you are just as much to blame as your political and military leaders. You have let them do this. We hate you for it.

When my American friends visit me they refuse to watch the news because here in Canada we have a *slightly less* controlled media machine that actually shows a different perspective of "The Great and Holy USA". Their ONLY counterpoint/argument to our news...?

"Its not true because we don't see that stuff at home."

A small attack on one country simply does not justify the actions the USA has taken, for an attack that killed just over 3000, the response was overkill. Ten years at war, tens of thousands of "enemies" dead. Just as many friendly deaths as the original attack on New York. Trillions of dollars spent that could have been used to rebuild 500 World Trade Centers, and what do we have to show for it?

One assassination, debt spiraling out of control and now 30 more needless deaths in a reaction to the action to the reaction of the original action. For me and many many more people like me world wide those returns are simply horrifying. And many Americans in defiance of the majority of the planet somehow find the courage to stand up and defend this sick frakking excuse of human behavior.

With the hurricane quickly approaching the house of cards is about to collapse. America will burn, I just hope it doesn't drag very many down with it.

-Lightrule

reply to post by behindthescenes

Inside info on Seal Team 6 shootdown

For the purpose of this comment/post/reply, I'd like to claim the following header:

Outside info on the CH-47 shootdown

As originally conceived, the CH-47 was to have a myriad of options for defense weaponry. It was also designed a bit like the old WW2 bombers, with machine gun ports on the sides and like the old Huey's, with optional missile pods on the landing gear struts. The first CH-47 designs included armor protection as well... for crew and personnel bay.

But, by the time the Washington bean counters and no-combat Pentagon penny pinchers finished , it went into production as a thin-skinned flying coffin with but a single defensive machine gun left hanging from the cargo bay tailgate.

Oh, if this sounds familiar, it's because we are reminded of the Humvee, which like the CH-47, has become the favorite target of those with anything from an RPG to a heavy machine gun, from an AK to a pile of sling-stones.

I won't even go into the old M-16... or the current Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle and all the horrible ways it was molested before being misborn to carry US troops into combat.

The media entirely ignores the state of our hardware. The focus on what they are told to focus on... so we don't learn how terrible our tanks were in WW2 until George C. Scott plays the part of Patton and tells us 25 years later!

Our SEAL teams are our elite... our best, the cream of the crop. I would never, in a thousand years, fly them out over unsecured territory in an unprotected CH-47... that's suicide, or murder, one.

Okay, I'm done.

Thanks.

The wheels in my head keep on turnin!!!

So,lets see here:

US attempts OBL kill the mission goes FUBAR SEAL team 6 dies and mission failed, we announce a kill/victory throw the evidence to the contrary in the sea then hold Pakistan's feet to the fire for housing OBL. Gaining leveredge against Pakistan in world view etc and US threatens action for housing OBL, etc..Pakistan in-turn threatens releasing the truth about the failed OBL raid and cover-up/lies from the Obama admin and US gov...US in turn responds by saying oh yah? US stages SEAL 6 six/copter shoot down with intel suggesting Pakistan released intel to taliban/terrorists etc etc....one giant game based on lies with a handful who know the truth...

lies are powerfull if people believe them...

Originally posted by blackcat99
How many choppers have actually been shot down by the Taliban though in the whole of this 'campaign' - I don't recall that many - please correct me if I am wrong!

Well since you asked so nicely I will

en.wikipedia.org...

I skimmed over the last two years and counted about 5 or 6 as a result of enemy fire, I am sure if you read the entire page you will find plenty of helicopters shoot down by the Taliban.

Look guys helicopters crash all the time in Afghanistan there is no conspiracy here, stop trying to create one.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by varikonniemi
Good for them! Let's bring an end to ALL the black operations.

When a country does a cold-blooded assassination, they ought to pay for it. And what better way is there for what goes around comes around, than karma retaliating directly to the people actually committing this horrendous crime?

You have not a clue, do you?

Well at least my no clue obey the T&C, which cannot be said about your one-liner.

Besides that, someone could be offended by such a personal attack. But that's not me. I won't even report your violations to the mods since i can accept we all have our weak moments... But still, you have silver contributor title, you should know better.

reply to post by varikonniemi


I really am one for fairness, I know that people on ATS all have different strengths, I could talk about stuff like this all night but start me on a topic about the paranormal or UFO’s and I am going to be lost.

Saying that however your post did perfectly show all other members that you “don’t have a clue” about tier one units. It was a perfectly reasonable observation, someone who declares that all black operations should be ended and then implies (at least i think you where) that this was Karma’s way of revenge for the SEALs that killed OBL, clearly does not “have a clue”

You post is actually offensive to those in the special operations community and to the families of those brave souls that have been killed.

If you would care to elaborate further on your first post I will happily discuss it further with you.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Originally posted by blackcat99
How many choppers have actually been shot down by the Taliban though in the whole of this 'campaign' - I don't recall that many - please correct me if I am wrong!

Well since you asked so nicely I will

en.wikipedia.org...

I skimmed over the last two years and counted about 5 or 6 as a result of enemy fire, I am sure if you read the entire page you will find plenty of helicopters shoot down by the Taliban.

Look guys helicopters crash all the time in Afghanistan there is no conspiracy here, stop trying to create one.

edit on 7-8-2011 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)

I agree... but I want to qualify that by referring to the Taliban shooting down Soviet Hind helicopters with CIA supplied Stinger missiles, and the current CH-47 that can (conceivably) be brought down with a .22 cal rifle.

IMO, we need to shift our focus as to WHY these elite forces were sacrificed by placing them in a situation where this kind of event was not only possible, but even likely. Their job is to fight; to go into harm's way... but we don't have to send them in like lambs to the slaughter.

This was so wrong in so many ways.

reply to post by redoubt


I agree the CH-47 is now obsolete.

Just also want to point out the CIA supplied Stinger missile systems to the Afghan Mujahedeen through the ISI, not to the Taliban. There was also a extensive program throughout the 1990’s and in the aftermath of 9/11 to get many of these stingers back. They gave them approximately 2000 to 2500 missiles many of them were used up against the soviets, after the war somewhere sold by the war lords to other states and many others where bought back.

There are of course going to be stingers possibly still in play in Afghanistan, however the number of these weapons in minimal to none. The contemporary view is that the Afghan militias who do have the odd stinger would rather use it to attack civil passenger airlines as a act of terror rather than attack military targets.

reply to post by redoubt


According to this Dutch news source they were on a rescue mission to help some Rangers in trouble, and got shot while departing :

Seals

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


By all means.

Some people might find it offensive, some find your post offensive. Just think about all those people who were affected by this illegal manslaughter carried out by these marine walruses.

You might see manslaughter as patriotic, brave and necessary for your country, i see it as cowardly, treasonous and perhaps necessary to bring forth the ultimate destruction of the states.

I am aware there are some conflicting reports about the crash, was it the same people, was it just people from the same team etc. But it does not change the fact that to me it seems that indeed karma took back what they did take from Osama; the right to live.

I hope we can have differing opinions, yet discuss them civilized without personal insults or other t&c violations. That was too much to ask from beezzer.

By the way, a few minutes back there was an introduction topic, stating also inside knowledge of covert operations.

This person was very worried that although he normally had his sources, this time all doors are shut.

Unfortunately the topic 404 immediately.

reply to post by varikonniemi


Osama was the head of a organisation that facilitated killing thousands of innocent, I would say that the SEALs killing him was Karma working at its best.

There was nothing offensive in my post however I think that many would find your description of the people who defend your freedoms as “marine walruses” as very offensive.

It would be interesting if you had more to contribute to this thread other than hating on those who are the vanguards of your liberties.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


It would also be interesting if you had more to bring here than your admiration of killing innocent people.

Try to remember that OBL is innocent until proven guilty. And deserve to die only if that is the sentence deemed fit in a court after trial.

He was not a victim of warfare. It was an assassination of a civilian.

all my respect for this terrorist organization called navy seal 6 vanished the moment they were involved in their first operation outside their countries borders. The only reason a military person should ever be armed outside their own country is if in fact there was a declared war going on.

reply to post by varikonniemi


I totally accept all of that, but in my view assassination of dangerous individuals is acceptable. I have no problem with extrajudicial killings so long as it is paramount for the preservation national security regardless of modern views regarding jurisprudence or the moral views of liberals.

I would also like to point out that your views should not be directed towards the individual soldiers on the ground bout the politicians and generals. It is them who send these men to war, they are only following orders your hate should be directed at them and not the brave men and women who protect the fabric of society that you clearly value.