Why God's Word The Bible IS Infallible!

reply to post by Akragon


OK - so in your book the Book of Revelation is officially not included. It's not God's written word.

What about the rest of the Greek Christian Scriptures (NT)? Anything you wanna add to the list?

How about the Hebrew Scriptures (OT) are they not part of your book too? All or just a few?

Just wanna know before I can answer the questions you're asking, because if they are not recognized by you then what's the point answering ur qs?

Do you believe that the "OT" books are God's Words?

ty.

reply to post by edmc^2


I didn't say exclude anything...

Read whatever books you want to read for whatever you believe them to be...

The only words "From God" within the bible came from the MAN, who was sent by God...

The rest matters little to me... but i didn't say we should go changing anything. Its still a book thats been around for years... And much of what he said was repeated by others within said book.... What i am saying is that the only "important" information came from Jesus... Not inspired by some "spirit" that sounded nothing like him...

reply to post by edmc^2

‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.’”

Let me give a translation of an interpretive nature.

Hello, John, I am an angel, and to be more specific, the angel of Jesus.
Jesus is not available for comment, being a star, now, as was prophesied by Daniel, that 'those who save others will shine as the stars and will be affixed in the heavens, as stars, forever.'
So, seeing how this situation exists, I will be your guide, and let me assure you that I am the very proper representative of Jesus, as will be attested in due course, as this revelation proceeds.

So, the point being made here by myself is, Jesus, the person, is nowhere to be found in the Book of Revelation and none of the quotes in Revelation are of Jesus himself. These are messages given in signs and figures.

reply to post by jmdewey60


This is not entirely accurate, there are indeed some quotes in revelations that are of Jesus. I will edit this post once I get to computer.

Rev. 1:17-20
Even when Jesus spoke to the churches.

Pick up any bible and see the posts in red.

reply to post by jhill76

I have to say that I was somewhat dumbfounded when I went to the on-line Red Letter Bible and saw whole swaths of red letters, seemingly indiscriminately disbursed throughout Revelation.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by edmc^2

 

I didn't say exclude anything...

Read whatever books you want to read for whatever you believe them to be...

The only words "From God" within the bible came from the MAN, who was sent by God...

The rest matters little to me... but i didn't say we should go changing anything. Its still a book thats been around for years... And much of what he said was repeated by others within said book.... What i am saying is that the only "important" information came from Jesus... Not inspired by some "spirit" that sounded nothing like him...

edit on 14-10-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

ok, thanks for the clarification but I'm not sure you get what I'm saying. You see all of the things that Jesus said was written by his apostles many years later. By means of the holy spirit they were able to recall and record accurately what transpired when Jesus was still with them in the flesh. After wards the events that took place during the apostle's time period they also recorded with the help of again the holy spirit. Thus they were inspired of/by God.

So if you're saying that the only "words" that matters to you are the "words" from the "MAN" meaning Jesus - then how do you know that the writers of the NT (Gr Scriptures) are Jesus' Words?

Since you don't accept the rest of their writings, how do you know that what they wrote about Jesus are true?

Remember - Jesus died in 33 C.E. then was resurrected and appeared many days later with the apostles and disciples - about 500 person.

Then the writing of the NT commenced years later:

So if you believe that what John wrote in his book about Jesus (his life and words) are truthful why then do you not accept the rest of his writings - like the Book Of Revelation?

What about 1 John, 2 John and 3 John?

Again if you believe only in the "words" of the "MAN" the Lord Jesus, does this mean that you accept the Bible books that he quoted from?

Like the following as an example (there's more of them):

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female,

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by everything that proceedeth out of the mouth of Jehovah doth man live.

what say you?

For ur reference below is a list of the Greek Scriptures (NT) who the writer was and when it was written:

Book -Writer -Year Written
Matthew -Matthew -c. 41 C.E.
Luke -Luke -c. 61 C.E.
Acts - Luke -c. 61 C.E.
James -James -before 62 C.E.
Mark -Mark -c. 60-65 C.E.
First and Second Peter -Peter -64 C.E.
First and Second Thessalonians- Paul -65 C.E.
Galatians Paul 65 C.E.
First and Second Corinthians -Paul -65 C.E.
Corinthians; -Paul -65 C.E.
Romans; Ephesians; - Paul- 65 C.E.
Philippians; -Paul -65 C.E.
Colossians; -Paul - 65 C.E.
Philemon; Hebrews; - Paul- 65 C.E.
First and Second -Paul -65 C.E.
Timothy; Titus -Paul - 65 C.E.
Jude- Jude - 65 C.E.
Revelation; -John - 98 C.E.
First, Second and Third John -John -98 C.E.



ty,

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by jhill76

 

I have to say that I was somewhat dumbfounded when I went to the on-line Red Letter Bible and saw whole swaths of red letters, seemingly indiscriminately disbursed throughout Revelation.

edit on 14-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

In addition to what you already discovered notice the intro of Revelation:

NIV - Rev 1:1 - The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Rev 1:2 who testifies to everything he saw--that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

© Info: - The Holy Bible, New International Version© 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society

www.blueletterbible.org.../1

Did you noticed the Channel of communication?

The Revelation came from God the Almighty.

Then given to the resurrected Jesus Christ who is now at God's right hand in heaven.

Then to an Angel.

Then finally to John.

So as you can see - Jesus is very active in his duties. Thus the Book of Revelation holds vital information to man's survival now and the fast approaching future. It will be a pity for anyone to reject its message.

Remember what Jesus' said and what he promise before he left earth:

Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."


Matt 28:20b "And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Again Rev 1:1 - "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place."

Question is: do you believe that the Book of Revelation is (part of) the Word of God?

If yes, that's a start.

reply to post by edmc^2

In addition to what you already discovered. . .

What I discovered was that you can't trust red letter Bibles to be discriminating. They do what makes people happy and find every opportunity to make letters red, that is just good salesmanship.
I'm not saying Revelation needs to be discarded. "The spirit of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy", is what is said by someone who stands near the throne, in Revelation. So, there is Jesus in that book. The claim is: Here is a book, and it is a Jesus class revelation.

reply to post by Akragon


You getting scared madcat? If you can't debate me then you obviously cannot back up your Biblical positions. You have already said many times that the only truth you ascribe to is your own personal opinion based on cherry picking through out the gospels. This would in turn make your your own god since you now determine your own truth.

Good luck with this methodology when you stand before God. I'll be curious to see what God thinks about you claiming to know more about how God "should" feel and act then He does.....I amazes me that you think God can love people, yet is not allowed to hate poeple too?!?!? What a jacked up emotionless monster you must serve What? You think God throws people into hell laughing at them while loving them too? Logic escapes you.

Proverbs 1:25-31
"25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
26 I also will LAUGH at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices."

reply to post by edmc^2

So if you're saying that the only "words" that matters to you are the "words" from the "MAN" meaning Jesus - then how do you know that the writers of the NT (Gr Scriptures) are Jesus' Words?

That would actually come down to my own personal faith, as to what i know to be truth... What he taught was truth, and can be proved, i even have a challenge on this forum for anyone who is willing to question what he taught... sadly no one has even attempted it, and it somehow turned into relationship advice

Since you don't accept the rest of their writings, how do you know that what they wrote about Jesus are true?

Please see the above statement... What he taught was truth... the fact is, it doesn't even matter if the person from this book named Jesus existed at all... What does matter is what is written about him, and what he supposedly said... He could have been a big purple dinosaur named barney for all i care... its the words that were written that matter...

So if you believe that what John wrote in his book about Jesus (his life and words) are truthful why then do you not accept the rest of his writings - like the Book Of Revelation?

Mainly because you can not learn anything from that book... As i've told you prophecy is useless to me... I don't live in the future or the past... All there is... is now.

What about 1 John, 2 John and 3 John?

What about them?

Again if you believe only in the "words" of the "MAN" the Lord Jesus, does this mean that you accept the Bible books that he quoted from?

They are part of the bible... thats all i need to accept from those books.

Like the following as an example (there's more of them):



Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female,

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by everything that proceedeth out of the mouth of Jehovah doth man live.


what say you?

Well, Genesis has its contradictions...

That quote from Deuteronomy is flawed because this same Jehova apparently also commanded those verses i quoted in an earlier post... So he commanded his children to go against his own commandment "thou shall not kill" If God does not change, as the son does not change... God would not contradict his own words in any case...

The words Jesus supposedly spoke which are written within the bible have no flaws... I've yet to find one. On the other hand i've found flaws in almost all of the books, including John...

Yet none comming from Jesus...

reply to post by KJV1611

You getting scared madcat? If you can't debate me then you obviously cannot back up your Biblical positions.

LOL no my friend, as i've said before... You are not a challenge. And i've already given you my reasons for not wanting to continue debating with you... You do not understand what you preach, its as simple as that.

You have already said many times that the only truth you ascribe to is your own personal opinion based on cherry picking through out the gospels. This would in turn make your your own god since you now determine your own truth.

Again i do not cherry pick... I read the entire chapter to find a meaning before i post anything... You find a few words within a small passage of a chapter and assume the context in which is was spoken without reading what comes before or after... which is why what you post many times is incorrect... THAT is cherry picking...

Good luck with this methodology when you stand before God. I'll be curious to see what God thinks about you claiming to know more about how God "should" feel and act then He does

It might be different if God wrote the bible, but he did not... I welcome the day i stand before God, and i know he will say... "you have done well dispite your flaws..."

.....I amazes me that you think God can love people, yet is not allowed to hate poeple too?!?!? What a jacked up emotionless monster you must serve What? You think God throws people into hell laughing at them while loving them too? Logic escapes you.

And it amazes me that people believe such a place like Hell exists at all... And what do you know about logic anyways? You believe logic escapes me only because you are not logical...

Why would God hate anything... Hate is a human emotion, and its completely useless to us as humans... What would God need with such emotions... It would be like myself Hating a fly, or an ant. Completely pointless.... Though again as i've said, Your God is a jellous raving lunitic who takes pleasure in torturing his children... Mine does not... My God lets us live how ever we will, and leaves our choices to us... Through those choices you prove yourself to him.... Not though a book... or what other people tell you to believe.

Interesting you posted this though...

26 I also will LAUGH at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

Quite typical of fear mongerers like yourself... You people push fear like a drug...

I do not fear God, nor any man or his claims

reply to post by edmc^2

...again, why do you say the "Pastoral Letters" of the apostle Paul forgery?

I ran across this verse, so I thought I would share it with you.
Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in former times was written for our instruction, so that through endurance and through encouragement of the scriptures we may have hope.

This was probably the real Paul writing that the forger was using to expand and turn into something else, in the Timothy "letters". It goes from something to give us hope, into something an ecclesiastical authority can use to punish people with.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

reply to post by jmdewey60

This was probably the real Paul writing that the forger was using to expand and turn into something else, in the Timothy "letters". It goes from something to give us hope, into something an ecclesiastical authority can use to punish people with.

There you go being "god" again since YOU are obviously your own final authority. What makes you think you can decide what is true scripture and what is fake in the BIBLE? Are you god? Were you the one that persevered your own scriptures? How arrogant.

reply to post by Akragon


The question is not about the truthfulness of Lord Jesus' words - of course they are true. Any sane person knows that. But what I'm trying to dtermine is whether you believe the words written by his the apostles. As you made clear already, i aware that you have your own version of a Bible - put together by you by cherry picking words that you deem worthy of consideration.

So - since you only accept the words of Jesus' that were written by his apostles, which Bible book will you / do you accep then?

Do you accept the book written by John?
What about the book written by Mark, Luke and Mathew?

Do you a accept all of them or just the verses you cherry picked?

How many books or verses does your Bible contain since you don't accept the Bible in it's entirety?

What say you?

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by Akragon

 

The question is not about the truthfulness of Lord Jesus' words - of course they are true. Any sane person knows that. But what I'm trying to dtermine is whether you believe the words written by his the apostles. As you made clear already, i aware that you have your own version of a Bible - put together by you by cherry picking words that you deem worthy of consideration.

So - since you only accept the words of Jesus' that were written by his apostles, which Bible book will you / do you accep then?

Do you accept the book written by John?
What about the book written by Mark, Luke and Mathew?

Do you a accept all of them or just the verses you cherry picked?

How many books or verses does your Bible contain since you don't accept the Bible in it's entirety?

What say you?

I accept the entire bible as it is... a book.

And if you know where his words are found, why are you asking me?

I've already defined what i believe to be words from God...

reply to post by Akragon

I accept the entire bible as it is... a book.

And if you know where his words are found, why are you asking me?

I've already defined what i believe to be words from God...

Just making sure I know where you stand because everytime I mention a verse from the Bible you push it aside and say it's not the Word of God. It's a moving target with you because like you said "I've already defined what i believe to be words from God..."

So if I say that the following Bible quotations are the words of God - you say:

“11 “For your part keep what I am commanding you today. Here I am driving out from before you the Am′or‧ites and the Ca′naan‧ites and the Hit′tites and the Per′iz‧zites and the Hi′vites and the Jeb′u‧sites.
12 Watch yourself that you do not conclude a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, for fear it may prove itself a snare in your midst.
13 But their altars YOU people are to pull down, and their sacred pillars YOU are to shatter, and their sacred poles YOU are to cut down.
14 For you must not prostrate yourself to another god, because Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, he is a jealous God;
15 for fear that you may conclude a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, as they will certainly have immoral intercourse with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, and someone will be certain to invite you, and you will certainly eat some of his sacrifice.
16 Then you will have to take some of their daughters for your sons, and their daughters will be certain to have immoral intercourse with their gods and make your sons have immoral intercourse with their gods.
17 “You must not make molten idol gods for yourself.
18 “The festival of unfermented cakes you are to keep. You will eat unfermented cakes, just as I have commanded you, seven days at the appointed time in the month of A′bib, because it was in the month of A′bib that you came out of Egypt.
19 “Everything that first opens the womb is mine, and, as regards all your livestock, the male firstling of bull and of sheep.
20 And the firstling of an ass you are to redeem with a sheep. But if you will not redeem it, then you must break its neck. Every firstborn of your sons you are to redeem. And they must not appear before me empty-handed. 21 “Six days you are to labor, but on the seventh day you will keep sabbath. In plowing time and in harvest you will keep sabbath.
22 “And you will carry on your festival of weeks with the first ripe fruits of the wheat harvest, and the festival of ingathering at the turn of the year.
23 “Three times in the year every male of yours is to appear before the [true] Lord, Jehovah, the God of Israel. 24 For I shall drive the nations away from before you, and I will make your territory spacious; and nobody will desire your land while you are going up to see the face of Jehovah your God three times in the year.
25 “You must not slaughter along with what is leavened the blood of my sacrifice. And the sacrifice of the festival of the passover should not stay overnight until the morning.
26 “The best of the first ripe fruits of your soil you are to bring to the house of Jehovah your God. “You must not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.”
27 And Jehovah went on to say to Moses: “Write down for yourself these words, because it is in accordance with these words that I do conclude a covenant with you and Israel.”
28 And he continued there with Jehovah forty days and forty nights. He ate no bread and he drank no water. And he proceeded to write upon the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Words.” (Exodus 34:11-28)

what?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by edmc^2

 

...again, why do you say the "Pastoral Letters" of the apostle Paul forgery?

I ran across this verse, so I thought I would share it with you.
Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in former times was written for our instruction, so that through endurance and through encouragement of the scriptures we may have hope.

This was probably the real Paul writing that the forger was using to expand and turn into something else, in the Timothy "letters". It goes from something to give us hope, into something an ecclesiastical authority can use to punish people with.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

edit on 15-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

You keep saying the "forger" - who is this forger you've been reffering to anyway?

As for Romans 15:4 compare this with 1 Corinthians 10:11:

“4 For all the things that were written aforetime were written for our instruction, that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope.” (Romans 15:4)


“11 Now these things went on befalling them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have arrived.” (1 Corinthians 10:11)

Is 1 Corinthians 10:11 also a "forgery" or for that matter the entire 1 Corinthians since it's also written by Paul?

I wonder to what extent are you going to cherry pick the Bible so as to conform to your personal belief?

But my original Q is still unanswered:

...why do you say the "Pastoral Letters" of the apostle Paul forgery?

By what or whose measuring line were able to determine this?

What say you?

reply to post by edmc^2

Just making sure I know where you stand because everytime I mention a verse from the Bible you push it aside and say it's not the Word of God. It's a moving target with you because like you said "I've already defined what i believe to be words from God..."

So if I say that the following Bible quotations are the words of God - you say...

what?

I say, believe whatever you will...

There is no moving target, i've said it many times... and nothing has changed in the slightest... You know where his words are what is the point of quesitoning me about it?

So either you don't know what a moving target is, which would be completely rediculous... or you're looking for excuses to what i say because without the rest of the bible being "the words of God", your religion... and thus your bible is flawed...

I post simplistic ideals that are proveable... and without flaw because i speak of love which what Jesus taught... But lets look at your God...

From the passage you just posted...

14 For you must not prostrate yourself to another god, because Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, he is a jealous God;
15 for fear that you may conclude a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, as they will certainly have immoral intercourse with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, and someone will be certain to invite you, and you will certainly eat some of his sacrifice.
16 Then you will have to take some of their daughters for your sons, and their daughters will be certain to have immoral intercourse with their gods and make your sons have immoral intercourse with their gods.


Why would God have a reason to be Jealous?

Why would anyone assume that because one choses a different God, they will do anything immoral...

Your God is flawed my friend... Beyond repair, and only in these days people can finally see it for some reason.

Though the God of Jesus is not because he is Love and nothing is higher...

Love is proveable... Your God fails the test...

I just wish you could see that

reply to post by Akragon


Again, Jesus' words are not in question here nor the Love of God and Jesus' for John 3:16 says:

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)

Rather which one is God's written Word?

Let the Bible answer it for you:

“All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

As to:

Why would God have a reason to be Jealous?

I'm quite surprised you're even questioning this.

It's matter of faithfulness and loyalty - tell me how would you feel if your dearly beloved spouse who is married to you started serving another person instead of you? Will it be OK with you? Will you not be jealous?

What if he/she started putting pictures of that person in your house and then every moning and evening looks at it and praised it in front of you? How would you feel? Will you not be jealous?

But what if your spouse started questioning you and says - you have no REASON to be jealous at all? How would you feel? Will you say - oh.. OK?

So what do you think? Does God have any reason to be jealous at all?

Look again at what he told the Israelites before entering the promised land:

“11 “For your part keep what I am commanding you today. Here I am driving out from before you the Am′or‧ites and the Ca′naan‧ites and the Hit′tites and the Per′iz‧zites and the Hi′vites and the Jeb′u‧sites.

12 Watch yourself that you do not conclude a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, for fear it may prove itself a snare in your midst.

13 But their altars YOU people are to pull down, and their sacred pillars YOU are to shatter, and their sacred poles YOU are to cut down.

14 For you must not prostrate yourself to another god, because Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, he is a jealous God;

15 for fear that you may conclude a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, as they will certainly have immoral intercourse with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, and someone will be certain to invite you, and you will certainly eat some of his sacrifice.

16 Then you will have to take some of their daughters for your sons, and their daughters will be certain to have immoral intercourse with their gods and make your sons have immoral intercourse with their gods.

17 “You must not make molten idol gods for yourself. -- Exodus 34:11-17

Tell me this please, before you marry someone - will you just take in that person without coming to an agreement or understanding as to what his/her resposibilty is/are as a husband/wife? Or will you take that person even if she/he will be unfaithful to you? If so what kind of person are you then?

Remember what the marriage vow say:

Do you, ____, take , ____, to be your (husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part. I, ____, take you, ____, to be my (husband/wife). I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I will love you and honor you all the days of my life..

"...I will love you and honor you all the days of my life.." does these words mean anything to you?

So if your spouse commits infidelity - is that OK with you?

If it's not OK with you - how much more is it to God - the creator marriage?

So what would you expect from him when he is fully aware that the nations that they are about encounter have many gods? Nothing?

So if the Israelites decided to serve other gods other than the ONE who took care of them (as a husband) and brought them to the promised land - should Jehovah God just ignore it? As if his words had no meaning at all?

Oh, I see, marriage has notthing to do with IDOL worship?

If so then it's OK with you if your spouse brought in all of his/her ex-bf pictures and display them all over your house. Is that how you are?

Do you know what God said at Isa 42:8?

“I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images.”—Isa. 42:8, Am. Stan. Ver.

Again Jesus' OWN WORDS:

He said: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” (Matthew 4:10)

So do you really know what you're talking about?

Do you understand what Jesus' said to the devil?

Does God have the right to be jealous like a loving husband does?

reply to post by KJV1611

There you go being "god" again since YOU are obviously your own final authority. What makes you think you can decide what is true scripture and what is fake in the BIBLE? Are you god? Were you the one that persevered your own scriptures? How arrogant.

Your point being . . ? that because it exists, then God must have willed it so, and now we just submit to this unsaid decree? Ridiculous! Yes, I am the ultimate judge, at least in my own mind.