Faith without works and proof is false faith.

reply to post by jmdewey60


All I can do follow God's word as it's written. And I do strive to better myself and conform to God's character as best I can, we should all do this once we enter a personal relationship with Christ. In regards to the issue of being closed minded, I understand that many would view me as such, but it is written that Christians will endure persecution, I expect this to happen to me. As a believer I have chosen to follow God and shun the worlds expectations of how I "should" think or how I "should" feel. All that matters in the end is that I follow my Lord.

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled."
-Matthew 5:6

reply to post by milkyway12


What you're saying does make some sense to me; If a person is truly a saved believer then they will sin less because God will convict them. I have always truly believed in Jesus as Lord, but there have been times when I wasn't doing as he said based on human selfishness which we all inherently have; I believe that backsliding can be possible by a believer because we are imperfect beings, but I also see that if one is unrepentant of their transgressions they are not truly following God. You can't be lukewarm when it comes to God.

reply to post by disasternaut


What I am wondering about is who and what do you classify as "the world".
TV pop culture would be a fairly obvious choice as a candidate for "the world" category but what else would you include?
How about the study Bible you are reading? Do you know who publishes it? Do you know who wrote it?
Aren't you a bit curious that this is also a product of "the world"?
Or do you think that because it has the word "god" or "holy" on it then it must be ok and not to worry?

reply to post by jmdewey60


I know that highly certified biblical scholars write the material that gives me the perspective of what was going on then. Oh, and to address the issue of the world, when the Bible refers to the world it is speaking of man and his works apart from the Lord. This includes the media, but its so much more than that; its anything that man creates [intentionally or not] that goes in direct opposition to the Word of God.

Originally posted by disasternaut
reply to post by wearewatchingyouman

 

I know what the authors of the Bible intended to say because I learn from the studies of biblical scholars what was going on in the minds of the writers. Having a study Bible has helped me immensely in the understanding of the Scriptures. If you realize what was going on during those times you can better comprehend state of mind the authors were in. One more thing: What would me being Jewish or orthodox catholic have to do with my understanding of the Bible? Is that to say that every Jewish person or orthodox catholic has a superior understanding of the Bible by default? That's absurd!

Well for me Christianity is a pretty absurd thing anyways... In the words of Tertullian, "... the Son of God died; it is by all means to be believed, because it is absurd." but that's beside the point...

I didn't say you had to be anything to have a superior understanding of the bible... I'm simply saying if one were to follow your logic, if your theology is based off anothers interpretation of a book, one may find it best to get the interpretation of the religion which created said book... I think you will find it much different than whatever your NIV, KJV or whatever study bible you're using.... and one may even find a much more fulfilling personal relationship with God applying critical hermenuetics to develop their own exegesis with the help of the spirit...

Of course, to the three religions I mentioned, what you consider the end all be all of God's final word, to them, is simply a collection of inspired texts used as a tool which they created to assist in their overall tradition of worshipping God... With the exception of Torah maybe...

When you start to think of the bible this way verses like "all scripture is inspired by God" tend to have a different meaning 'cause the bible you apply this to didn't exist when it was written...

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by bogomil

 

No, I have a friend who works harder than anyone I know, and he is totally faith-only but not the same type I am talking about. I should specify but I don't want to get too partisan. More the once-saved-always-saved type, is probably what I mean. No judgement. My friend does believe in judgement but that he has an advocate.
My spiel is that you have no power to force that advocate to come forward on your behalf and is partial towards those he knows, the ones who strive for righteousness knowing they will never fully attain it.

You are ofcourse right, and my earlier comments were imprecise concerning the believer's private motives and what 'order' the christian options have in an individual.

What MANIFESTS, in a social context, is what matters for non-believers.

Originally posted by disasternaut
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

I know that highly certified biblical scholars write the material that gives me the perspective of what was going on then. Oh, and to address the issue of the world, when the Bible refers to the world it is speaking of man and his works apart from the Lord. This includes the media, but its so much more than that; its anything that man creates [intentionally or not] that goes in direct opposition to the Word of God.

It's an intrinsic part of some of the christianities to rely heavily on authority and hierarchy. That's from my perspective a choice. Or in a more complex way of putting it, possibly a choice of NOT choosing, or even deny the option of choice.

But mankind doesn't collectively accept such a mindset position; something which sometimes seems to be outside the scope of understanding for the 'slave-of-god' or predestination christian, who consider it his/her holy duty to bring us out of this misconception. Sometimes with the genuine motivation, that 'it's for our own good'.

Many of us prefer to find out own 'good', hence the confrontations.

reply to post by wearewatchingyouman

When you start to think of the bible this way verses like "all scripture is inspired by God" tend to have a different meaning 'cause the bible you apply this to didn't exist when it was written...

For someone not claiming to be a believer, you seen to have studied the subject quite a bit and have done some analysis of it. The thing you point out which I quoted is something I think about but don't find it be something to bring up too frequently. Probably better for people such as yourself to do that.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I don't think I ever claimed not to believe in God... although I may have slipped up or said things in a way which could be easily misconstrued... as sometimes I find I grasp certain concepts through playing Devil's or God's advocate as the situation permits... I'm agnostic... Which means I don't have knowledge of there being a God... I certainly have belief or faith in a higher power... I just can't claim to know for certain how it works, what it is and yes, that it even exists... it's beyond what the 10% of my piddily little brain can grasp...

reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
I have a tendency to not be very specific with my posts.
I was talking about Christianity and the "Christian Scriptures".
I kind of go back and forth over the issue, depending on what the subject is I am arguing about.

Please nobody feel threatened or obligated to follow what I'm about to say, it is my own individual belief that we must do only two things:

1) Have a personal relationship with God/Jesus through prayer after accepting him as our savior..

2) Treat your brother as yourself.

That's it, no more, nothing confusing just two things.....

reply to post by jmdewey60


aaahhh yes, that... I have studied the Bible in it's entirety quite a bit... Including the "Christian Scriptures"... canonized and apocryphal.... I tend to seperate them though rather than look @ them as a whole... I guess that's probably obvious by my previous comments though... I've just started doing the same with the Hebrew scriptures i.e the Priestly Document etc.... It's quite fascinating the different perspectives you get...

reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
I have to walk a fine line where I can not wreck all authority, otherwise I have no platform from which to make arguments, so like I said, fine for you, and cool, or whatever.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by wearewatchingyouman

 

I have to walk a fine line where I can not wreck all authority, otherwise I have no platform from which to make arguments, so like I said, fine for you, and cool, or whatever.

very well then... Like I say if the box fits enjoy it's comfort and coziness, but beware of the sharp edges...

Peace to ya brother...

Originally posted by kinglizard
Please nobody feel threatened or obligated to follow what I'm about to say, it is my own individual belief that we must do only two things:

1) Have a personal relationship with God/Jesus through prayer after accepting him as our savior..

2) Treat your brother as yourself.

That's it, no more, nothing confusing just two things.....

Completely stripped of public speculations on satanic science, nihilistic liberalism, claims of superiority or exclusivity concerning other religions, introducing OT evaluations of minorities and in general pushing it at other people, yes...this sounds decent, and deserves to be left 'unbashed'.

reply to post by bogomil
You actually have a sense of humor.
That made me literally LOL, not just figuratively.

reply to post by wearewatchingyouman


This goes back to Paul warning us not to blinded by philosophers and the like; if we start adding principles from mystic/Gnostic religions etc. we start to blaspheme and contort the message of the Lord. It doesn't matter if these other texts make us feel "comfortable" or "enlightened" or what have you if twist God's message. In addition, since it is impossible for me to go back to those times I rely on the scholars who study the Bible in depth to reach my conclusions because it's their job to know these things. If you want to understand science, learn from a scientist; If you want to understand the Bible learn from Biblical scholars.

Originally posted by disasternaut
reply to post by wearewatchingyouman

 

This goes back to Paul warning us not to blinded by philosophers and the like; if we start adding principles from mystic/Gnostic religions etc. we start to blaspheme and contort the message of the Lord. It doesn't matter if these other texts make us feel "comfortable" or "enlightened" or what have you if twist God's message. In addition, since it is impossible for me to go back to those times I rely on the scholars who study the Bible in depth to reach my conclusions because it's their job to know these things. If you want to understand science, learn from a scientist; If you want to understand the Bible learn from Biblical scholars.

You wrote:

["if we start adding principles from mystic/Gnostic religions etc. we start to blaspheme and contort the message of the Lord."]

Technically the bible-character Jesus is a 'mystic', which then will give you no end of complex theological, existential and philosophical problems.

Quote: ["In addition, since it is impossible for me to go back to those times I rely on the scholars who study the Bible in depth to reach my conclusions because it's their job to know these things."]

Many people let somebody else do their thinking for them, sometimes even their decision-making; and such is (to my knowledge) recommended by the only place in epistles, where Paulus and the original disciples had a resemblance of agreement. Peter 2.

Translated to contemporarinese: "Even if authority sounds weird, it knows best".

reply to post by disasternaut

If you want to understand science, learn from a scientist; If you want to understand the Bible learn from Biblical scholars.

Let me correct you here my friend...

If you want to learn science.... yes learn from a scientist. If you want to understand the bible....Read it for yourself. And question the "so called" bibical scholars...

reply to post by bogomil


Jesus was not a mere mystic; he was God. I was referring to the religions/belief systems that infringed on what the bible taught based on human speculation versus divine inspiration. One more thing, I guess one could say that someone is doing my thinking for me; but by that logic if you believe something taught by anyone else who is capable to do so, wouldn't that be letting someone think for you? I look at the materials before me and come to conclusions based on what the content says to me by my logic as does the rest of us.