Where Have All The Planes Gone?

reply to post by pshea38


Being bashed yes but still holding my own.
Trick is not to let them get to you or make you question what you are seeing is normal when it is so apparent that they have changed and that they are not normal.
What gets me the most is that some will admit that it is possible and has been done before and yet won't agree that such a program maybe in place at the present time and that is just sad but me posting here is not to convince them that it is happening but to question why they think its not happening and the evidence they use to say it is not happening so that those who are still on the fence get a good for and against argument on which to decide what the truth maybe to them.

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by pshea38

 

Being bashed yes but still holding my own.
Trick is not to let them get to you or make you question what you are seeing is normal when it is so apparent that they have changed and that they are not normal.
What gets me the most is that some will admit that it is possible and has been done before and yet won't agree that such a program maybe in place at the present time and that is just sad but me posting here is not to convince them that it is happening but to question why they think its not happening and the evidence they use to say it is not happening so that those who are still on the fence get a good for and against argument on which to decide what the truth maybe to them.

It's all down to evidence.

Is there any evidence that trails are not what they used to be? Like, photos, video?

Of course spraying things from planes has happened before. Spraying from planes is going on now. There's probably defoliant spraying and dispersement tests going on now.

But that's really not what the chemtrail theory is about - it's about if there's any evidence that the long white trails we see in the sky are are anything other than normal contrails.

All you seem to say is "planes sprayed things in the past", and "I don't remember them being like that".

Not very convincing.

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by pshea38

 

Being bashed yes but still holding my own.
Trick is not to let them get to you or make you question what you are seeing is normal when it is so apparent that they have changed and that they are not normal.

We've asked yuo what has actualy changed several times and you ahvent' actually told us - you said something is different about contails in teh last year - that's a fairly short time frame so I am sure if it's true it would be of concernt to all of us - it certainly would be to me.

but you dont' actually say what the change is - how are we supposed to know what's going on it you don't tell or show us??

What gets me the most is that some will admit that it is possible and has been done before and yet won't agree that such a program maybe in place at the present time

well that's not me - I agree - a secret programme MAY be in place.

But I haven't seen any evidence that it IS in place.

and that is just sad but me posting here is not to convince them that it is happening but to question why they think its not happening and the evidence they use to say it is not happening so that those who are still on the fence get a good for and against argument on which to decide what the truth maybe to them.

Oh - you're another one using Argument from Ignorance - you are saying that I cant' prove that it isn't happening, therefoer it is!

God I'm so sick of that.

Look - it is you guys who say something IS happening - therefore it is up to YOU to show some evidence of that - it is called the burden of proof - you claim that chemtrails are being sprayed - OK - what's your evidence for it??

My position is this:

1/ Contrails exist.
2/ there is nothing known to exist that looks and behaves like a contrail except a contrail
3/ therefore when I see somethign that looks like a contrail I can reasonably conclude that it is a contrail.

By all means show me something that doesn't fit this and I'll change my position accordingly - but it has to be actual evidence - real, credible, verifiable. Not just some guy saying "look up"!

Grr....

reply to post by Uncinus


I have watched the sky's whenever i can especially on nice hot day's when i lie on my back looking upwards its not a case of i am noticing them more its the fact that these trail's where NOT in the sky then but are now that's the difference.
So there is a change in the space of a year wouldn't you question why if you have never seen them before in the sky and then suddenly you see them everyday?

Originally posted by pshea38
reply to post by djcarlosa

 

Just to report, a beautiful clear blue sky all day today
and only 4-5 planes fly-overs.

Whereabouts (roughly) do you live?? You could check overhead using Flight tracker or Flight Aware .....

I have a feeling that aerosol-spraying deniers are more likely
to be Official Story supporters in controversies such as 9/11 and JFK etc.

my feeling is that chemmies tend to follow every other conspiracy too - regardless of how silly - HAARP is the perenial favourite

A fool follows a fool but
A traitor follows a murderer and liar.

And a debunker follows the science

Originally posted by Newts

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Ok so why are you now so sure that there is no project of this type under way at this time and do you have pics of the trail's from the previous tests so that we have a basis from which we can deduce what is a contrail and what is not a normal contrail.
All to often when pic's of strange trail's are posted the response from your side is that it is just a normal contrail if we had something to put the pic up against [pic from earlier chemtrail projects] then we could all see that it is normal or is not normal have you in your research come across any such pic's?

edit on 27-6-2011 by djcarlosa because: (no reason given)

also you are right i should have put evidence and not proof my bad.

edit on 27-6-2011 by djcarlosa because: (no reason given)

There is plenty of evidence
Let them disbelieve
Perhaps they have interest in it.

The term here is
SAG
Stratospheric
Aerosol
Geo-engineering

It is happening.....
4 years looking at evidence
my own eyes
had posters of Apollo
as a kid everything I was
was about aviation
I come from an
Aviation family
It is
beyond discussion at this point.

End Transmission

edit on 27-6-2011 by Newts because: (no reason given)

Plenty of evidence

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by Uncinus

 

I have watched the sky's whenever i can especially on nice hot day's when i lie on my back looking upwards its not a case of i am noticing them more its the fact that these trail's where NOT in the sky then but are now that's the difference.
So there is a change in the space of a year wouldn't you question why if you have never seen them before in the sky and then suddenly you see them everyday?

OK - so for you the change is that there are contrails where there were none, and you're completely sure this isn't just you noticing them now and not paying attention to htem before. OK - that's clear enough I think.

Could it be new flight routes, or new aircraft on existing routes (eg jets replacign turboprops, so flying higher and making contrails where the turboprops didn't before)?

Perhaps you could be some real close up shots? you can get a 10" telescope in het USA for about $600 - this guy in Belgijm gets clear shots with a setup that uses a 10" one - www.skystef.be...

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by Uncinus

 

I have watched the sky's whenever i can especially on nice hot day's when i lie on my back looking upwards its not a case of i am noticing them more its the fact that these trail's where NOT in the sky then but are now that's the difference.
So there is a change in the space of a year wouldn't you question why if you have never seen them before in the sky and then suddenly you see them everyday?

Approximately: A) Where do you live. B) How long have you lived there, C) How old are you?

reply to post by Newts


No, that's not evidence.

The first video is a deliberate hoax - a mistranslation of a a German news story about chaff interfering with weather radar.

The second simply claims that "normal" contrails can't persist and spread, which is obviously false. See my sig.

reply to post by djcarlosa


I think your best shot would be to find some corroborating evidence. Your word alone is not going to convince anyone.

So there must have been thousands, if not millions of people who can see the same trails you see, correct?

So find some of them, and ask them A) what they remember about the contrails before this year. B) when they think it changed (if at all).

Then when you've got, say, four people to agree what changed, and when it changed, then maybe start investigating more.

Because right now, all you'e got is you noticing something, and thinking it's new, when no scientists seem to have noticed.

Originally posted by Newts

A deliberate mistranslation of the German commentary - it's been covered before www.abovetopsecret.com...

Plenty of evidence

More arrant nonsense - this time that contrails do not spread, but chemtrails do (summarising for those that dont' want to waste 3 minutes of their lives on this), and also contain aluminum, barium, blood and bacteria, and chemtrails are an "exotic weapon system" - gosh......there's that old bill again....

Contrails have been known to spread across the whole sky - a guy called Antoine de Saint Exupery wrote about it doing so when he was flying recce flights against the Germans in 1940:

The German on the ground knows us by the pearly white scarf which every plane flying at high altitude trails behind like a bridal veil. The disturbance created by our meteoric flight crystallizes the watery vapor in the atmosphere. We unwind behind us a cirrus of icicles. If the atmospheric conditions are favorable to the formation of clouds, our wake will thicken bit by bit and become an evening cloud over the countryside.

His work "Flight to Arras" is still available on Amazon. He was killed in 43 or 44 IIRC.

the rest of the claims in the video are jsut a mishmash of old, long debunked claims as per my summary above.

there has never been any evidence that shows high levels of bacteria, aluminium or barium or anything else in any aircraft exhaust trail AFAIK, other than what you would expect in jet exhast.

The claims of "blood" were abandoned long ago - the stuff that was claimed to be blood turned out to be pollen didn't it? Perhaps someone can delve back into the archives and find that...

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


The evidence is above your head
literally

Dismiss
as you will
as I said
Perhaps you have an interest
either way
you are not
receptive
right then...
The comfy chair for you ...
enjoy your repose adversary Aloysius

The vault
and vids were for the benefit of others

Geo engineers
just openly talk about ...
SAG
but have not done it yet....
Sure...

Originally posted by Newts
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

The evidence is above your head
literally

so all I have to do is "look up"?

And what does it tell me? that there are white lines across eth sky - how does that prove chemtrails?? How do your eyes analyse the content of those white lines and tell you what is in them??

You accuse me of being non-receptive - but I am completely receptive to proper evidence - you telling me to look up is not evidence of anything.

Geo engineers
just openly talk about ...
SAG
but have not done it yet....
Sure...

did you actually watch the video? He's talking about his proposals and how aluminium WOULD be cheap and preferable to sulphur..

There's nothing in there about anyone actually doing it - didn't you actually comprehend what he said?? .

and somehow this is supposed to be proof that it is being done?? And you accuse me of not being receptive??

sorry - this is jsut typical chemmi disinfo - posting somethign that is not what you imply it is, asking rhetorical questions, saying things are being done but not giving any evidence at all.

Your sort of believer has been around for years, pounding tht same old disinfo & parroting the lines you've read somewhere else without actually bothering to try to understand what you're repeating.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Just to report, a beautiful clear blue sky all day today
and only 4-5 planes fly-overs.

Whereabouts (roughly) do you live?? You could check overhead using Flight tracker or Flight Aware

I started this thread and all information is contained within.

I have a feeling that aerosol-spraying deniers are more likely
to be Official Story supporters in controversies such as 9/11 and JFK etc.

my feeling is that chemmies tend to follow every other conspiracy too - regardless of how silly - HAARP is the perenial favourite

You resort to cheap labelling and ridicule genuine enquiry and scepticism.
I will not give known murderers and gross deceivers the benefit of any doubt.

A fool follows a fool but
A traitor follows a murderer and liar.

And a debunker follows the science

Sometimes friend. Depends on the motivation.
But also science is not infallible (see all of history) and we
live in an age where information is (under lock and) key.

Trust Dark Strangers at your own peril.

Originally posted by General.Lee
BS. They virtually always fly at 30-35000 and it is plenty conducive to "contrails".

They, meaning commercial flights I assume? Your assertion is incorrect. En route (meaning not near the terminal environment are generally at cruising altitude; but can still encompass all climbing aircraft and descending aircraft outside of a 5-10 mile radius of the terminal airport it is arriving at or departing from) aircraft, depending on point of origin, destination, weather, flight restrictions, and other various factors fly at altitudes ranging from approximately 19000' up to 40000' (typically long range hauls.)

You claiming BS, then saying people aren't giving factual evidence, when yourself do the same exact thing. That I believe is really what astounds me from your post.

Remember, according to the debunkers, the moisture comes from the JET ENGINE. And it is ALWAYS freezing at 35000 feel, so you're talking out your @ss. And if there was any ambient moisture THEN THERE WOULD CLOUDS TO BEGIN WITH!

With my above response, this whole assertion becomes false.

You guys have non-scientific, spewage for everything you can't explain.

Where is your scientific evidence that "virtually" all planes fly at an altitude of 30-35000'?

One thing I CAN tell you, is the high-altitude jet routes are NOT random criss-cross patterns.

And your scientific is where? Most jet routes are fairly established, but can vary based on conditions and with approval. Most follow way points (VORTAC facilities provide a "highway" in the sky so to speak, but newer technology such as more reliable GPS is changing this.) It can fairly be common to see criss-cross patterns because of these way points.

As an exercise, can you tell me how far planes are separated laterally in the sky? Or how far apart the "chemtrails" are? If so, I am impressed.

There ARE NOT jet routes laid out in a cross-hatch patterns. Period.

Is "Period" your scientific evidence? You decreed so it must be true? How arrogant can you be to demand scientific evidence yet present none?

If you really believe that cross-hatch, tic, tac, toe chemtrails are "normal contrails" cause by regular commercial air craft, then you cannot be reasoned with.

Because you are presenting compelling evidence otherwise.

You are likely also a 9/11 believer as well and I could probable see you your own house. You are more concerned with being right than what IS right. That mentality cannot be reasoned with.

What does 9/11 have to do with anything? You are creating a straw man comparison for your like minded counterparts with this argument. Overall, your entire reply here was just an emotional rant demanding scientific evidence while speaking from authority in the next breath with no evidence to back it up.

Originally posted by pshea38

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Just to report, a beautiful clear blue sky all day today
and only 4-5 planes fly-overs.

Whereabouts (roughly) do you live?? You could check overhead using Flight tracker or Flight Aware

I started this thread and all information is contained within.

so yuo could have jsut told me rather than effectively asking me to search through all your posts to find out, but decided not to? why bother? why not just repeat what you have apparently already said? Is your purpose in not doing so simply to inconvenience me as much as possible?

I have a feeling that aerosol-spraying deniers are more likely
to be Official Story supporters in controversies such as 9/11 and JFK etc.

my feeling is that chemmies tend to follow every other conspiracy too - regardless of how silly - HAARP is the perenial favourite

You resort to cheap labelling and ridicule genuine enquiry and scepticism.

what cheap labelling? chemmies? as opposed to expensive labelling such as "aerosol-spraying deniers", "Official Story supporters", or "debunkers"?

What would you rather I called people who believe in chemtrails??

I see no actual evidence of genuine enquiry and skepticism from chemmies - I see them parroting tall tales that have usually been proven false years ago. I see uncritical acceptance of statements apparently based on nothing more than the fact that they are non-scientific, or denied by "the establishment".

I see actual science and verifiable evidence dismissed as propaganda, apparently without irony, byt the same people who believe the unsupported assertions of known shysters.

None of this is what I equate to "genuine enquiry and skepticism".

I will not give known murderers and gross deceivers the benefit of any doubt.

And who would those people be?

And a debunker follows the science

Sometimes friend. Depends on the motivation.

AFAIK I am not your friend, and since debunking is all about removing bunk (bunkum - nonsense, lies, obsfucation, myths, etc) I do not think motivation has anything to do with it.

But also science is not infallible (see all of history) and we
live in an age where information is (under lock and) key.

but science has a couple of important characteristics relevant to this chemtrail meme:

1/ "it" is interested in what can be reproduced - it is evidence driven
2/ "it" will change as the evidence changes

So if you can provide some actual verifiable evidence then we science/evidence driven debunker types will change as required.

As opposed to the "chemmie believer" types who will not change regardless of the actual verifiable evidence.

Trust Dark Strangers at your own peril.

Does this have any actual meaning or relevance??

Ok so i have found a link for the other vid i wanted to take another look at and view against the vid that aloysius the gaul kindly provided on the last page.
Now when i posted the second link once before i was told that it was a hoax and the plane was not spraying chemicals but having watched the vid in the first link and comparing the 2 [first link is a plane spraying chemicals in the agent orange program] i can't help but notice how alike the trails are take a look.

link:www.youtube.com...

now compare it to the next link.

link:www.youtube.com...

Well is it just me

Originally posted by djcarlosa
Ok so i have found a link for the other vid i wanted to take another look at and view against the vid that aloysius the gaul kindly provided on the last page.
Now when i posted the second link once before i was told that it was a hoax and the plane was not spraying chemicals but having watched the vid in the first link and comparing the 2 [first link is a plane spraying chemicals in the agent orange program] i can't help but notice how alike the trails are take a look.

link:www.youtube.com...

now compare it to the next link.

link:www.youtube.com...

Well is it just me

Why would finding something it look like make it not a hoax? The person who took the video explained what it was, and posted another close-up video that fully explained it.

And here is someone who seems to think that Allegiant Airlines is spraying them.

twitpic.com...

reply to post by firepilot


And there's not any trails at all in that shot, short, long, engine or aerodynamic??