Controlled Demolition Was Not Needed To Bring Down The Towers

Assuming that the internet polls do have credibility, there is still no indication that most people believe it was an inside job...I'll post this again in case you missed it:

I believe there was a cover up too, to hide their incompetence of that day so people don't lose the faith in the government, if the people lost faith due to the vulnerability of our country that day then the system would collapse. Once again, NO INDICATION of inside job.


Most people think there should be another investigation into 911 but that's due to building safety regulations. Once again, NO INDICATION of inside job.


The only poll I found that SPECIFICALLY mentioned an inside job was the Scripps Howard Poll, and only 36% believe it to be true (that includes people that think the government just "let it happen" with no direct involvement as well). Looks like most people still believe Islamic terrorists did this by themselves.

You see the problem with polls that I have is that they are really inacurate. How many times can you vote in a poll. How many actual new people are voting on them. You can def sway a poll. It's all in how you ask the question. IE. What color is the sky. A. Green B.red. C. Yellow D. brown. What color is the sky? according to that poll? Polls are done like this all the time. Who is going to win the next Presidental Election. A. Kain B. Obama C. Romney D. Gingrich. Well my answer could be Ron Paul but he's not a choice. So the media reports that Ron Paul got no votes. Gee wonder why. That's just one of many tricks they use in polling. Polls are bull#!!

i'm quoting myself so you will see it.

and on the "most people believe it was terrorists" thing. most people don't even know there was a third building, and that jet fuel cannot melt steel, even though molten steel is well documented.

Thanks for in input , I couldn't agree with you more.

And I bet you or any other American could just walk right into that hanger to take a look at any of that material. And the best way to get rid of any proof of wrong doing is to melt it down and make it into a ship. Funny how main street media didn't talk about any of this until it was melted down and taken away and not before. Not conspiracy. FACT. I don't need to make up stories. I'm far from a shill and I'm definitely not a # talker. I know both sides of the story and from time to time I am swayed by something I read. I find the author or the source and investigate that. Unlike most conspiracy nuts I use my brain and I never repeat anything I read until I know for sure that there is some foundation to what is being said. I am not a believer in the NWO, Aliens, Mind Control. I dont believe in anything I can't justify by a fact. I know what I know as fact not fiction. If I wanted to tell stories I would write a book and make some money doin it.

I respect your opinion bro but you're still jumping to conclusions... Just because they media doesn't cover something extensively doesn't mean it's being covered up intentionally. And just because things were taken care of quick doesn't mean that it indicates they were scared of anyone finding out about it.

Originally posted by SkepticAndBeliever
And I hate when people say I believe the "official story", because that supports a "pancake" collapse but NIST debunked that claim (a long with controlled demolition claim) and proved the that it as "inward bowing" that caused the buildings to collapsed (not a theory, PROVED it). I did believe the pancake theory though, but the difference between me and truthers is when I get proved wrong I can admit it.

edit on 19-6-2011 by SkepticAndBeliever because: (no reason given)

But bro your thread started out supporting pancake collapse lol. Now you've been proven wrong you've finally woke up to the fact you were supporting nonsense in the first place? Problem is the new NIST theory that you've finally discovered is also nonsense, and has been discussed many times here.

You don't care what happened as long as it supports the OS it seems?

The trusses were a lot lighter and had far less mass than the columns they were attached to. Sagging trusses can not put a pulling force on the much larger columns they were attached to. Steel expands when it is heated, the trusses firstly would try to expand outwards, but would be unable to as that would be the path of most resistance (pinned between inner and outer columns), so they sag down instead, they do not pull inwards.

Do you really think columns can be snapped in two places, very close to weak points, but the weak points don't fail first? It's cartoon holywood physics.

Now you must obvioulsy realise 'truthers' were correct the whole time about 'pancake collapse' right? After you insisted over and over again that we weren't. Obviously you never read the NIST report as you claim, it took 'truthers' to show you the truth lol. If you were smart you would realise that maybe we're more correct about what happened than you want to believe.

(BTW the OS does not support pancake collapse, you've discovered what is does support after being told by 'truthers'. The OS changed years ago mate, where have you been?)

But you have to agree, Something that day was not right a side from the attacks. I for one am not a believer in much I'm bigger skeptic than anything. I would love to know that the truth is terrorist attacked our country and our Gov new nothing. Just to much hiding this and hiding that.

If anything at the least anyway. The cover up could have been the sloppy way it was handled. But I just want someone to admit it that has any kind of merrit. You have to know. This is not the first time this has happened here. The Bombing of Pearl Harbour our Gov knew about it and did nothing. (declassified information) I believe it's the same case here. Someone screwed up and the cover up is there. The 911 argument will never come to a rest. People will argue this for years. Great Debating with ya. :0)

reply to post by SkepticAndBeliever


Love the thread. Love the examples. This is how every debate and topic should start here at ATS. But your right, to many people think they know better and hide behind words like Physics.

reply to post by kellynap43


i don't, i've been waiting about 5 pages for an answer about heat. maybe you could help? (theres one at the beginning of the page that i requoted)

i'm not trying to be a jerk, but when it all comes down to it, the OS can't explain it. more often than not, it is ignored, when it is the crux of the debate.

nevermind, the quote police have come through(not that this is a bad thing, it has been getting out of hand). its on the previous page.

Why didn't Nist investigate the explosions after policemen and firemen(CREDIBLE witnesses)said they saw,heard and felt explosions going off all day?Why was was no reason given for the explosions?Because they could have been the reason the buildings "collapsed".

A real investigator investigates everything.

Originally posted by bftroop

Originally posted by SkepticAndBeliever

Originally posted by bftroop

Originally posted by SkepticAndBeliever

Originally posted by Illustronic

6. Why did the Gov ship the rubble of the WTC building to an undisclosed very protected area? If you have nothing to hide. Why hide it.

For nearly a decade, the twisted, jagged steel beams recovered from the wreckage of the World Trade Center have been archived and stored in an airport hangar at JFK Airport since the attacks.

www.nj.com... eal.html

Some of the steel was used to forge the USS New York.
www.ussny.org...

This has been public knowledge for quite sometime.

Obviously. I guess it's just more fun for conspiracy theorists to ignore all facts to support their claims. I've noticed that conspiracy theorists don't look for the best/easiest answer, they look for the most interesting one just to tell a better sotry. Such a shill.

And I bet you or any other American could just walk right into that hanger to take a look at any of that material. And the best way to get rid of any proof of wrong doing is to melt it down and make it into a ship. Funny how main street media didn't talk about any of this until it was melted down and taken away and not before. Not conspiracy. FACT. I don't need to make up stories. I'm far from a shill and I'm definitely not a # talker. I know both sides of the story and from time to time I am swayed by something I read. I find the author or the source and investigate that. Unlike most conspiracy nuts I use my brain and I never repeat anything I read until I know for sure that there is some foundation to what is being said. I am not a believer in the NWO, Aliens, Mind Control. I dont believe in anything I can't justify by a fact. I know what I know as fact not fiction. If I wanted to tell stories I would write a book and make some money doin it.

I respect your opinion bro but you're still jumping to conclusions... Just because they media doesn't cover something extensively doesn't mean it's being covered up intentionally. And just because things were taken care of quick doesn't mean that it indicates they were scared of anyone finding out about it.

But you have to agree, Something that day was not right a side from the attacks. I for one am not a believer in much I'm bigger skeptic than anything. I would love to know that the truth is terrorist attacked our country and our Gov new nothing. Just to much hiding this and hiding that.

If anything at the least anyway. The cover up could have been the sloppy way it was handled. But I just want someone to admit it that has any kind of merrit. You have to know. This is not the first time this has happened here. The Bombing of Pearl Harbour our Gov knew about it and did nothing. (declassified information) I believe it's the same case here. Someone screwed up and the cover up is there. The 911 argument will never come to a rest. People will argue this for years. Great Debating with ya. :0)

I think the government was scared that the people would lose faith in them if all the info went public as to how vulnerable the country really was that day. Our whole structure would fall if we lost faith in the law makers/upholders. This is what they were afraid of so they either fabricated or skipped info (really for the safety of society structure), raising many questions creating the feeling something wasn't right.

As far as the audio/visual aspect goes of how "odd" it was how the WTC buildings fell, it becomes irrelevant when you realize that firefighters, police, and countless witnesses knew it was going to come down due to the damage. I can pull up so many reporters from that day saying "This just in, we are told the wtc building is going to collapse" MINUTES before it actually did, proving that no demolitions were needed because a demolition taking down a building would happen instantly providing no warning unless you were part of the demo yourself. I can show videos of firefighters saying "ya the building isn't going to hold up it's going to come down any minute now" like 20 minutes before the WTC 7 building collapsed.

Either they were all in on the conspiracy knowing it was going to "come down" in a demo and were blowing the lid casually on national TV (lol) or it was just common sense to assume the buildings wouldn't hold up. Anyway, you're right this debate does go nowhere in the end ahah Still a good time killer though.

And for the poster who mentioned how witnesses heard explosions therefore providing evidence of explosive devices, that is very unlikely. Big office building carry countless of flammable/explosive material in them, and when a raging fire comes in contact with them there is no doubt would cause an explosion. Plus like I said before a controlled demolition happen in a matter of seconds, yet there were eye witnesses hearing explosions that were many minutes apart.

reply to post by SkepticAndBeliever


yeah because our country cares about us so much that they bail out banks but let our middle and low class families bear the burden,and let big oil rape us at the fuel pumps. Yeah our country cares about us so much they have our boys out in Iraq doing the same song and dance we did in Nam with the casualty numbers manipulated and the cause for this war coveres up. They lie to our face,because they care so much right? Barack makes promises he never intends to keep because he cares right? Bernake insists we need to flood the market with fresh crisp new dollars and weakens our dollar globally because its in our best interest yes? We sit here with medi-cal policies that make it impossible for middle and upper-LOWER class citizens to get decent healthcare and the job market keeps shrinking because our government wants to protect us and earn our trust right? We deal with politicians left and right who get caught up in sex scandals,bribery,forgery,outright fraud, we do all this because our system is healthy and stimulative of NATIONAL progress....RIGHT? You don't see the grit and back alley filth our nations leaders have led us to dwell in? You don't see the greed and corruption all around us? You can't reason all the above as being in any way "good" for us without looking as despondent and apathetic as all the rest of the wolves out there claiming they are on AMERICA'S side,they are on their own side and your buying int that! This boils down to apathy. they don't care how many families were left without mommies and daddies that day,they don't care how many had to die to get that oil,to get more power. None of the people who died that day have been honored,rather they've been made into a mockery of honor,loyalty,and trust. You just remember that APATHY kills.

reply to post by ANOK


"But bro your thread started out supporting pancake collapse lol. Now you've been proven wrong you've finally woke up to the fact you were supporting nonsense in the first place? Problem is the new NIST theory that you've finally discovered is also nonsense, and has been discussed many times here."

Anok,
I've come to the conclusion that it's a waste of time here, and a waste of your talent. This feller doesn't want learn anything. In an issue like 9/11 some people only want to take sides, rather than delve into anomalies that are outside the comfort zone. There is even a debate going on about the whereabouts of the WTC steel, crime scene evidence, the vast majority of which, went to China. That is a major issue on its own, it and the er, "Businessmen" who were in charge of the deal.

Originally posted by SkepticAndBeliever


Everyone knows it? You mean delusional conspiracy theorists "know" it....Sane people that aren't wacko or looney know that terrorists did it because ALL of the evidence shows that. Truthers are a luaghing stock and most people don't agree with them. Learn to think by yourself and don't be suckered in by internet hoxes.

I'm not a truther. I've only discounted all explanations because evidence contradicts it all..

If you show a regular OSer who never spent 5 minutes investigating it, and who only listened to their favorite MSM outlet, and showed them some of the information available, they will question their belief. I know this because I've told these people.. just like you sayd.. think for yourself..


unless you get paid

Originally posted by SkepticAndBeliever
And for the poster who mentioned how witnesses heard explosions therefore providing evidence of explosive devices, that is very unlikely. Big office building carry countless of flammable/explosive material in them, and when a raging fire comes in contact with them there is no doubt would cause an explosion. Plus like I said before a controlled demolition happen in a matter of seconds, yet there were eye witnesses hearing explosions that were many minutes apart.

So you admit explosions were heard? Most OSers try to claim there were no explosions heard at all.

But regardless what you think those explosives were is nothing but your opinion and your opinion ignores witnesses who would KNOW what explosions are normally heard during a fire, they were fire fighters very experienced in building fires. They know far more than some kid on the net, who doesn't understand basic physics, what exploding flammable material sounds like. You are arguing with fire fighters on this, not 'truthers', we just present the facts.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz



ONE possible theory:

"Friction can manifest itself in varying degrees from smooth easy sliding to uneven erratic movement, which can generate excessive heat and cause damage to the moving surfaces.”

It would be fair to say that there was plenty of friction in midst of this chaos. Along with many other contributors.

I don’t have my PHD in "Physics" or anything, but I think there is a very simple explanation. Again, another example. Did you ever do the science experiment when you were a kid, when you bend a spoon back and forth and it causes heat, place it against you skin and it burns you? Again, there was much bending and twisting of metal in the midst of this chaos. Causing extreme amounts of heat.

My point being, I know you like to think this is something big and special and out of this world conspiracy. Trust me, I like to believe in those things too. But it’s not. It’s a simple explanation. Our government doesn’t need to bring down buildings to justify war, or for any other purpose. If they want to do something, they will do it. Let it go, move on, and have a happy life.

I could list another 12-14 elementary science experiments (“I’m an 8th grade science teacher) that could provide explanation. But I would be wasting my time. People like you have already mind up your mind. That is why after this post, I’m not responding. Nothing personal.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by SkepticAndBeliever
And for the poster who mentioned how witnesses heard explosions therefore providing evidence of explosive devices, that is very unlikely. Big office building carry countless of flammable/explosive material in them, and when a raging fire comes in contact with them there is no doubt would cause an explosion. Plus like I said before a controlled demolition happen in a matter of seconds, yet there were eye witnesses hearing explosions that were many minutes apart.

So you admit explosions were heard? Most OSers try to claim there were no explosions heard at all.

But regardless what you think those explosives were is nothing but your opinion and your opinion ignores witnesses who would KNOW what explosions are normally heard during a fire, they were fire fighters very experienced in building fires. They know far more than some kid on the net, who doesn't understand basic physics, what exploding flammable material sounds like. You are arguing with fire fighters on this, not 'truthers', we just present the facts.

No witnesses said they thought the explosions were explosives thats's just your opinion, some even came forward saying they were upset that conspiracy theorists would twist their words to fit their claim... but you present facts? Nice try lol

Originally posted by SkepticAndBeliever
And for the poster who mentioned how witnesses heard explosions therefore providing evidence of explosive devices, that is very unlikely. Big office building carry countless of flammable/explosive material in them, and when a raging fire comes in contact with them there is no doubt would cause an explosion. Plus like I said before a controlled demolition happen in a matter of seconds, yet there were eye witnesses hearing explosions that were many minutes apart.

Your gonna call brave men and women,fireman,police,good simaritans, all liars? These people risked their lives to save human lives, some of them went in the buildings,willing to offer up their own lives to save a father or a mother,a son to someone, a daughter.These are noble souls and juat like that you deem them liars? Too stupid to tell the difference between the fire and obvious explosions? Who are you to pass them off as less insightful than you?? THEY WERE THERE! Were you?? I bleed for mothers and the children and the fathers now struggling not only to make sense of their loss but to struggle on providing for their babies! These people you say simply didn't hear what they said they heard,that were there and did decide to speak up instead of keeping quiet like the majority,they are noble and honorable.How dare you. Your just a little worm. You should be ashamed of yourself. I'm glad you can't erase your comment. That way you can't shy away from your own comments or pretend you never said it. You did,I saw it. Your a wretch and I hope you think about the fathers who aren't here today to celebrate Fathers Day with the rest of us because of the events you so boldly claim against overwhelming evidence that our government was complicit in.