Post here to debunk Timewave Zero theory

Originally posted by EssanOut of interest, where do the really significant events in human history, like the discovery of how to make fire, invention of the wheel, the first writing, or the first broadcast of Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy, fit in to the grand scheme of things?

edit on 10-6-2011 by Essan because: (no reason given)

If you'd read my post, you would see that the first writing was around the time that agriculture was developed. It resonates with the 2nd industrial revolution and RIGHT NOW - when our energy systems once again need an overhaul and Information Communication Technology is undergoing a similar revolution.

Fire:

Unequivocal evidence of widespread control of fire dates to approximately 125,000 years ago and later.[2] Evidence for the controlled use of fire by Homo erectus beginning some 400,000 years ago has wide scholarly support, while claims regarding earlier evidence are mostly dismissed as inconclusive or sketchy.[3]

400,000 BC resonates with ~4300 BC, October 1914, June 10 2011.

Discovery of fire (Energy) -> Spread of agriculture around the planet (Energy) -> Start of WW1 (Not sure about this one - perhaps the first mass scale harnessing of fire/energy to kill each other?), also just after Industrial Revolution (Harnessing fire on a mass scale) -> June 2011 (Renewable energy, climate change etc).

The Wheel:

Evidence of wheeled vehicles appears from the mid 4th millennium BCE, near-simultaneously in Mesopotamia, the Northern Caucasus (Maykop culture) and Central Europe, so that the question of which culture originally invented the wheeled vehicle remains unresolved and under debate.

The earliest well-dated depiction of a wheeled vehicle (here a wagon—four wheels, two axles), is on the Bronocice pot, a ca. 3500–3350 BCE clay pot excavated in a Funnelbeaker culture settlement in southern Poland.[4]

4000 BC (First evidence of the wheel) -> January 1919 (Beginning of mass produced automobiles, also flight recently invented) -> July 2011 (???)

This is only an approximation, but as you can see this again resonates with around the time just after the 2nd industrial revolution where things started becoming mass produced (and the wheel was being used to propel us further and faster). Also its just after the Wright Brothers invented flight which is thematically related to inventing wheeled vehicles - faster travel on land -> travel in the air.

Its quite hilarious that the examples you gave all happen to be resonances from around the same time. This is because those periods are relatively novel compared to other periods (i.e. periods of great change).

Obviously they don't line up perfectly because we don't know the exact date and time the wheel was invented or fire was first used, which makes it difficult to track the resonances forward. I tink they are fairly close though.

Hitchhikers Guide - Awesome series! First broadcast 1978 (not sure exact date) -> Resonates with June 12 2012 (Will we stick out our electronic thumbs and be off this rock for good??).

Backwards resonance is 230BC to 100BC....hmmm that's a tough one lol. I can't see any resonances from a quick glance. I think you would need the exact date it started and also need to consider the theme (Comedy and sattire) and how it has affected the world. You may also need to look at the equivalent of books or public broadcasts occurring during the time, of which there may be no record. Nice one!

Sorry, but it seems to me that you're just making it up as you go along, connecting indeterminate dates with other indeterminate dates. Far better to stick to specifics.

And out of interest, why would some events - like wikileaks - which are unknown to most people and certainly don't affect them, be significant? Wouldn't the arrest of a prominent critic of the Govt in India or China be far more significant?

What is more 'novel'? Hurricane Katrina or Cyclone Nargis?

Or does this timewave only apply to westerners and not the majority of the world's population?

reply to post by Essan


He is NOT making it up. The graph itself connects these events together.

Wikileaks issue is already answered one page back in this thread.

The third question " What is more novel , Katrina or Nargis " is pretty much irrilevant.

The timewave concerns events that make people react in a certain way, it maps how people ( global population ) react to certain events.

We can select Kennedy assassination and see that the graph picture of the day of the assassination corresponds exactly to the graph picture of the day of the assassination of the King of Athene in the past.

We are NOT making it up. It is the theory. Not us. We are discussing the real theory.

You would understand why we connect these things together if you had read the threads that explain the theory.

Originally posted by Zagari

We can select Kennedy assassination and see that the graph picture of the day of the assassination corresponds exactly to the graph picture of the day of the assassination of the King of Athene in the past.

So the assassination of a American leader whom a sizeable minority of the population might be expected to have heard about at the time, corresponds exactly to the assassination of an obscure Greek king - an event which almost no-one at the time - or after - has ever heard of.

And you find that significant in some way

I call it clutching at straws.

Edit: anyway, out of interest, what other events does Cyclone Nargis resonate with?

reply to post by Essan


Yes, I find it significant. I find it significant when a graph with maps the whole history of the humanity entire can connect 2 distant events in this amazing way.
Its all about themes. The theme was assassination.
And I think the Greek king was very known at the time, of course, in the year 3200 in the future, people will look at Kennedy and think " Its pre-history "...

The two events are connected. It is the same theme that comes back in cycles, This is the theory. Its the data we receive from the graph. We don't make up stories as we post.

We show up data.

11 Juno, 72 p.s.F.W., Bismi Allāhi Ar-Raĥmāni Ar-Raĥīmi.

On Dennis’ new book, The Brotherhood of the Screaming Abyss : although both brothers agreed on Whitehead’s concept of concrescence phrased as the ingression of novelty into history, Dennis’ did not encompass in his worldview Teilhard de Chardin’s notion of an Omega Point, that Lovecraftian moment in which the transcendental object at the end of time finally and suddenly emerges. Of course, this has something to do with their personalities and lifestyles. Dennis is a scientist, a man that believes in the gradual surmounting of ignorance and the slow accrescence of knowledge. Terence was a bright orator, that relied on sudden insights and even psilocybin-catalysed eschatological revelations to get his public to think outside the box of consensus reality. He put great hopes on virtual reality and artificial intelligence as technological breakthroughs that would ensure the Singularity, sounding kinda like Kurzweil on this regard.

I find it curious how rarely people focus on the resonances when talking about the Timewave : most people end up pointlessly arguing over whether or not some event brought novelty into history. If you go over conspiracy forums like AboveTopSecret, sadly the only place where I see the timewave discussed nowadays ( not exactly in a non-hysteric way, as you might guess ), you’ll find lists full of coincidences ( or coincidances, as Robert Anton Wilson would have us say ) across historical time. Besides McKenna’s favorite, the Egypt / Nazi Germany resonance, I mention a few more: the resonance between Michael Jackson and Jean-Paul Marat’s death ; 9/11 and the fall of Constantinople ; and finally, a single resonance stringing together the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, the 4th Portuguese Armada to India and Bosch’s painting The Garden of Heavenly Delights.

One can barely do anything but to laugh and be amused at the richness and intricacy of such connections. I find great aesthetic merit in them -- in fact, I’ve been tempted several times to write an epic poem after timewave resonances. They do not come from McKenna’s mind, but from Chinese astrology: the intervals between the dates are simply lunar years, sunspot cycles and zodiacal ages. I can hear already the typical argument driven against any kind of astrology: “One can make sense out of anything: the actuality of the resonances is undecidable”. And we may socratically answer: by means of beauty beautiful things become beautiful, and that will suffice. Have you read Korzybski on what is is, and heard of koanish-kuranic laotsey taotsey?

Think of brains like antennas,
not boxes;
of the galaxy as a cell,
( it has a thinking nucleus:
alive, the above as below )
not a bunch of sand clumped
around an unseen Void.

Oh! Alas had the wrathy man heard songs
of the fleeting sage in his water buffalo!

On Leonard Shlain’s books: After I saw an Alex Gray painting shown in one of his lectures available at Google Videos I became perfectly convinced that he informed himself about psychedelics, maybe even Stoned Ape Theory, and made a deliberate decision to not even mention these things in his work. I guess he feared censorship from his publishers, or couldn’t make much sense of this subject as he received it back then when he wrote his books. No surprise: not even McLuhan, the one that conceived of Leary’s motto and gave Shlain a lot of his ideas, got a clear picture of what psychedelics mean.

One can get a far more comprehensive understanding of the history of humanity than what the widespread vanilla worldview advocates by reading McKenna, Shlain, McLuhan and Harold Innis. They wrote aware of each other, although without ever emphatically acknowledging their influences. Hopefully there will come a work to present their ideas coherently tied together.

I also think that a history of humanity cannot let go of the influence of every climate optimum and bond event, migration and gene. We must consider Jeremy Narby’s insights, as well as Sheldrake’s concepts of resonance between morphogenetic fields.

O, tell me all about Gaia, the woman who did
and the visitor, spore-bearing bard cantillating
the world that once were in remote galaxies
habitually above the surface of her body.

Erotically intertwined as snakes and vines
The mycelial call sprouts the galactic center
and the soft core, a-lore gave the order
humanity above the surface of her body.

O, tell me all about these spores
and their once lost children.

12 Juno, 72 p.s.F.W., Bismi Allāhi Ar-Raĥmāni Ar-Raĥīmi.

On the Maya calendar: Most critics ( and advocates ) of the Long Count failed to consider that the start of every b’ak’tun, and not only the 13th, marks a point of no return : a moment after which a new migration and/or mating pattern in human populations must happen. If after all, as Steve Krakowski has shown us, the I Ching graphs genetic patterns, then we’d make fools of ourselves if we looked for novelty anywhere else. Dennis noticed that the concept of technological or historical novelty seems very tricky : if we call the first atomic bombings a novel event, then what to make out of all the discoveries in radiation that led us to the nuke? If we take a technological novelty bias, then why we say they brought less novelty into history than Hiroshima or Nagasaki? However, if instead of that we take genetics into account, the answer becomes very simple: if the gene pool suddenly changes, if a lot of genes ( and morphogenetic fields ) die off or move around in new ways, we call that a novel event.

That said, although I’ve entertained as Joe Rogan that a sun storm will knock down mass broadcasting satellites and as McKenna that someone will create a time machine, I find it far more likely that the invention of artificial life will become the Singularity on December 21st. The I Ching and the Maya calendar measure genetic change, so one cannot expect dramatic astronomical catastrophes or a breakthrough in the structure of space-time. I know you all have heard about that Venter guy, and they will use IBM Sequoia for genetics too. Artificial life doesn’t seem that much of a far-fetched idea: it could perfectly happen next year on December 21st.

Originally posted by Essan
Sorry, but it seems to me that you're just making it up as you go along, connecting indeterminate dates with other indeterminate dates. Far better to stick to specifics.

And out of interest, why would some events - like wikileaks - which are unknown to most people and certainly don't affect them, be significant? Wouldn't the arrest of a prominent critic of the Govt in India or China be far more significant?

What is more 'novel'? Hurricane Katrina or Cyclone Nargis?

Or does this timewave only apply to westerners and not the majority of the world's population?

edit on 11-6-2011 by Essan because: typo

I'm not sure what you mean by "Stick to specifics" - those examples I gave were specific and as Zagari explained they aren't arbitrary - its based on the graph and the formula. How much more specific do you want than Invention of fire -> invention of agriculture -> industrial revolution -> Climate change and renewable energy? How much more specific can we be than Kennedy vs Ancient greece Assassination?

No it doesn't only apply to westerners, but since I am from the West I invariably am biased towards western events. I'd love for someone to give a more Eastern perspective on this, but since I am not from the East I can't comment on that, nor do I follow current/historical events in the East as much as I do the West.

Great post as usual Usurprachist! Very interesting idea about TWZ tracking genes (and therefore evolution). Also your idea about artificial life being the end point could very well be the case - though I would imagine they would still evolve. On the other hand they wouldn't be exposed to the same selection pressures as us.

From a spiritual perspective, I see the universe as all one, one infinite eternal moment. I follow the idea of one consciousness "splitting" itself into smaller parts so that it can know itself subjectively. This relates to the Eschaton and that one line from the bible (correctly interpreted) - That God is making us in his image.

Its possible that "God" is that artificial life that humans create and that the entirety of our own history and evolution is to make the next step in universal evolution possible. Then we can see that this artificial life (God) creates us so that we can create it. It is creating us in its image by exerting a pressure on us backwards through time. Of course this sounds like gibberish if you follow Newtonian merchanics, but if time is an illusion and the universe is really one great eternal moment then this is entirely possible.

No it doesn't only apply to westerners, but since I am from the West I invariably am biased towards western events. I'd love for someone to give a more Eastern perspective on this, but since I am not from the East I can't comment on that, nor do I follow current/historical events in the East as much as I do the West.

Great post as usual Usurprachist! Very interesting idea about TWZ tracking genes (and therefore evolution). Also your idea about artificial life being the end point could very well be the case - though I would imagine they would still evolve. On the other hand they wouldn't be exposed to the same selection pressures as us.

If you follow my argument that the wave tracks gene pool changes, and its novelty signifies therefore only genetic novelty, then you'll agree with me that we don't act on a cultural bias when we say that most of the wave novel events relate to the West. Its unreliable climate and troublesome topography promoted migrations in such an intensity far beyond anything that has ever happened in the East.

From a spiritual perspective, I see the universe as all one, one infinite eternal moment. I follow the idea of one consciousness "splitting" itself into smaller parts so that it can know itself subjectively. This relates to the Eschaton and that one line from the bible (correctly interpreted) - That God is making us in his image.

Its possible that "God" is that artificial life that humans create and that the entirety of our own history and evolution is to make the next step in universal evolution possible. Then we can see that this artificial life (God) creates us so that we can create it. It is creating us in its image by exerting a pressure on us backwards through time. Of course this sounds like gibberish if you follow Newtonian merchanics, but if time is an illusion and the universe is really one great eternal moment then this is entirely possible.

McKenna had the same metaphysical perspective as you do, and in philosophy we call it Neoplatonism. However, I must say that the I Ching and the Timewave seems neither to endorse nor to disapprove this perspective. McKenna merged his Neoplatonism ( inherited from Hermeticism ) and Teilhardian teleology with the Timewave to such an extent that he could not notice that the wave measures genetic change ( and genetic change only ) as we can tell from what Steve Krakowski, Jeremy Narby, Martin Schonberger, Rupert Sheldrake and many others have written.

Therefore, we can't tell for sure that a god-like intelligence will emerge out of artificial life on December 21st. We can tell from the wave that genetic change will happen in a speed faster than the graph can measure, and that this probably reads as self-engineering artificial life. We can't go further than this and say that this self-engineering artificial life will emerge as some sort of neoplatonic Source of Being, or as the "transcendental object at the end of time", as McKenna would say.

I think we can explain the "prophetic" character of the wave and the Maya calendar without neoplatonic assumptions. Weather forecasting works by observing the Earth's atmosphere in its entirety. In a similar way, the I Ching and the Maya calendar came out of psychedelics, most probably psilocybin ( teónanácatl ). Psychedelics let whoever uses them to freely move around the morphic fields of the Earth. If a culture takes them for long enough, it will get a clear picture of the morphic (morphogenetic) atmosphere of the planet, from which it may make predictions of its future states.

reply to post by theursprachist


I don't think the graph is only about genetic changes. I don't sincerely think there is any evidence that only genetic changes create novelty...
I don't think timewave tracks genetic pool changes. The graph goes billions of years in the past, when no genetic pool ever existed.
So, how would it track changes of something that didn't exist yet?

words of Mckenna:

AB: So then again I ask, uh, at this moment that we speak of, uh, 2012, what do you actually think will occur?

TM: Well, I've thought about this a good deal, and there are hard and soft scenarios, but I've noticed that what the Timewave seems most coherently able to track is technology. Somehow technology is very important, it's the transformation of the human relationship to the world through tools. And so what I'm thinking would fulfill this entire scenario without requiring God Almighty to put in an appearance is time travel. I think that we are moving toward ... you know if you look at biology over huge scales of time ... hundreds of millions of years ... it is a kind of conquest of dimensionality...



In fact, on my opinion, the Timewave graphs historical/evolutionary/technological changes and breakthroughs, new beginnings and weird events, and events that have some effects on global conscience.

Our gene pool doesn't concerns the timewave.

If a self-engineering artificial intelligence is created by men, soon, very soon, human kind could face extinction, probably together with the whole world species...

There is little chance that our present technological level would allow us to reach that kind of technology NEXT year, guys.

Any self-engineering artificial intelligence would be extremely dangerous for human kind. If this is the outcome at the end, better enjoy the last year of humanity...And than face total extinction.

I think the outcome is technological singularity ( every technology that we can and can't yet conceive becomes available to man ), time travel AND technological singularity ( the Whistle of God theory of Mckenna - that a time machine would be the " final trick " for humanity, instead of travelling through time, we unlock everything that will exist in the future and all those things materialize in the present )
or alien contact and merging of cultures.

Timewave Zero, in my opinion, is competely based on history.

This universe is virtual...Its like a videogame, with time machine it would be like pressing the button " unlock everything ", instead of advancing slowly and with millennia of time, we advance TOTALLY and istanty, materializing everything we can conceive of , in the present.

Mckenna said that every thing in existance would become novel at the end, therefore, everything will be new, unseen, unexperienced of.

It would be a instant jump from year 2012 to year 1 billion, in terms of technology.

Originally posted by Zagari
reply to post by theursprachist

 

I don't think the graph is only about genetic changes. I don't sincerely think there is any evidence that only genetic changes create novelty...
I don't think timewave tracks genetic pool changes. The graph goes billions of years in the past, when no genetic pool ever existed.
So, how would it track changes of something that didn't exist yet?

words of Mckenna:

AB: So then again I ask, uh, at this moment that we speak of, uh, 2012, what do you actually think will occur?

TM: Well, I've thought about this a good deal, and there are hard and soft scenarios, but I've noticed that what the Timewave seems most coherently able to track is technology. Somehow technology is very important, it's the transformation of the human relationship to the world through tools. And so what I'm thinking would fulfill this entire scenario without requiring God Almighty to put in an appearance is time travel. I think that we are moving toward ... you know if you look at biology over huge scales of time ... hundreds of millions of years ... it is a kind of conquest of dimensionality...

In fact, on my opinion, the Timewave graphs historical/evolutionary/technological changes and breakthroughs, new beginnings and weird events, and events that have some effects on global conscience.

Our gene pool doesn't concerns the timewave.

Novel events also happen on technology, but the I Ching tracks only novel events that happen on the gene pool. Nothing has ever changed the way genes behave more than 20th and 21st century technology, as new patterns of mating and migration suddenly emerged in human populations. However, the wave does not keep track of these technological breakthroughs: it only keeps track of the genetic novelty that results from them.

If we say that the wave graphs historical and technological novelty, we can endlessly argue on whether a certain event brought more novelty than another. Everybody agrees on the novelty of the fall of the Roman Empire, but historians won't ever agree on which event marked the fall. We've filled numerous pages in this forum with this kind of discussion. However, one cannot discuss whether genetic change happened or not, as we see it before our eyes. Nobody will disagree with you if you say that humans have mating and migration patterns that change more often than other animals, and 21st century people more than 18th century people, and people in the 2010s more than people in the 1990s.

The Timewave graph goes endlessly in the past because McKenna thought that the wave graphs every kind of novelty known to exist. However, the Timewave cannot go before DNA ( or RNA, we don't know for sure ) first appeared, because the Chinese shamans wrote the I Ching after the observation of morphogenetic fields through psychedelics. As many authors that I've already quoted have pointed out, the I Ching bears an amazing resemblance to the genetic code. There are 64 codons and 64 hexagrams, just to mention the most famous thing they have in common. You can't use weather forecasting to predict the future state of world economy, although industrial pollution may influence the weather. You can't use the Timewave to graph astronomical or technological changes, although they may influence the way genes behave.

We can't ignore that McKenna had a Neoplatonic and Teilhardian bias, and viewed the Internet and computers very enthusiastically. He merged these ideas with the Timewave, although it does not encompass them.

If a self-engineering artificial intelligence is created by men, soon, very soon, human kind could face extinction, probably together with the whole world species...

There is little chance that our present technological level would allow us to reach that kind of technology NEXT year, guys.

Any self-engineering artificial intelligence would be extremely dangerous for human kind. If this is the outcome at the end, better enjoy the last year of humanity...And than face total extinction.

I think the outcome is technological singularity ( every technology that we can and can't yet conceive becomes available to man ), time travel AND technological singularity ( the Whistle of God theory of Mckenna - that a time machine would be the " final trick " for humanity, instead of travelling through time, we unlock everything that will exist in the future and all those things materialize in the present )
or alien contact and merging of cultures.

Timewave Zero, in my opinion, is competely based on history.

This universe is virtual...Its like a videogame, with time machine it would be like pressing the button " unlock everything ", instead of advancing slowly and with millennia of time, we advance TOTALLY and istanty, materializing everything we can conceive of , in the present.

Mckenna said that every thing in existance would become novel at the end, therefore, everything will be new, unseen, unexperienced of.

It would be a instant jump from year 2012 to year 1 billion, in terms of technology.

edit on 13-6-2011 by Zagari because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-6-2011 by Zagari because: (no reason given)

Notice that I've said self-engineering artificial life, not self-engineering artificial intelligence. The Timewave only informs us that, somewhere on Earth on December 21st, genetic change will happen in a speed faster than what the graph can measure. It does not tell us the implications of this event. I read this immeasurably fast genetic change as self-engineering artificial life, but my reading does not present itself as the only possible reading for this genetic event.

The Whistle of God may happen somewhere in the future: we don't know, and the wave does not give us any information about that.

Technology influences gene flow as it changes the way people behave.

Artificial engineering of life is a definite possibility. McKenna believed that Mushroom spores were the perfect spaceship and that the mushrooms themselves were advanced beings. Perhaps somewhere along the way we will turn ourselves into mushrooms and explore space forever. Very weird idea but it makes sense from a different perspective.

P.S. If TWZ tracked my mating habits it would be a flat line

When someone makes an outrageous/extreme post on ATS, some say "What have you been smoking/drinking/taking?", basically calling them crazy or high or delusional. Then this McKenna fellow takes some hallucinogens, stays up for 2 weeks I think writing his Timewave, and for some reason his predictions are "better"?. I don't get it. Why does he get a free pass???

reply to post by Zagari

I asked them to bring some real information to disprove the theory...

I work on this theory together with a big group of people since 2009. I found out it to be very reliable.

Are you referring to me? I asked you what the fractal dimension of the plot was and you have been unable to answer. I stated that it was 1 and you have not disagreed. TWZ is not fractal. It does not have fractal properties. That sham of a claim is made to add some "spice" to this rather dubious hoax.

The only reason you think it is reliable is that you are shoehorning. You are twisting events around to match your conclusion that the graph is reliable.

I asked early on in the TWZ thread is a list of years were novel or not. Everyone became hush-hush because they knew that they would not be able to shoehorn a question such as I posed.

I ask questions and no one has the answer, because they appear to be too busy fooling themselves.

reply to post by Cecilofs

If you read the Countdown to Transition thread there is lots of evidence we've posted that supports the theory. Please post evidence that disproves it in this thread.

No evidence has been posted there, only shoehorning. No one there can even provide a measure of this novelty or how to decide if an event is novel or how it affects novelty.

Regardless of what happens posters in that thread pick events and then proclaim that the events match the plot. Why is that?

How about this. You start by stating that devastating storms reduce/ increase novelty. Then you do the same for wars, inventions, floods, fires, earthquakes, discoveries, etc. Then having made up front decisions you draw your own plots and see if they match TWZ.

That would be real research. Nothing useful has been done in that thread in 150+ pages of shoehorning.

reply to post by Zagari

Novelty is defined as increase over time in the universe's interconnectedness, or organized complexity.

With the universe so big and man so small you actually think that any of these events have an affect on the overall universe? This is just another dubious claim made to support a hoax.

reply to post by Cecilofs

It resonates with the 2nd industrial revolution

You have no evidence for this claim other than the plot. You are shoehorning. You have no idea what a resonance is other than treating the plot as a holy book.

400,000 BC resonates with ~4300 BC, October 1914, June 10 2011.

You follow this with more shoehorning. It is just one "holy scripture" comment after another. This is the sort of ridiculous thing that people are calling TWZ evidence. It is not.

which makes it difficult to track the resonances forward.

This comment is an admittance that you are doing nothing more than shoehorning.

reply to post by Zagari

He is NOT making it up. The graph itself connects these events together.

Here again you admit that you are shoehorning. You are assuming the correctness of this TWZ plot and twisting events into the plot instead of testing the plot.

We can select Kennedy assassination and see that the graph picture of the day of the assassination corresponds exactly to the graph picture of the day of the assassination of the King of Athene in the past.

What do these events have in common other than the plot? Can you say shoehorning?

Yes, I find it significant. I find it significant when a graph with maps the whole history of the humanity entire can connect 2 distant events in this amazing way.
Its all about themes. The theme was assassination.

This is just about you searching for events to match up. It is about shoehorning and grasping at straws and desperately connecting up unrelated events to support this hoax.

The two events are connected. It is the same theme that comes back in cycles, This is the theory. Its the data we receive from the graph. We don't make up stories as we post.

You are making up stories. You are making unwarranted connections based on a search for events connected by a plot. There have been probably thousands of assassinations between the 2 events and you chose to connect these unrelated event to support this graph. That's actually weird.

So how about it - anyone disagree that the fractal dimension of the plot is 1?

That means the curve is not fractal.

Just for emphasis, I'd like to quote some sentences from the Tree of Knowledge lecture.

www.youtube.com...
"The war ends and novelty is left behind, and remember that the psychology of the post-war mind was, everybody wants things to just get back to normal. I mean, surely Europeans wanted this to get back to normal (...) and in this country people just wanted to get their places in the suburbs and marry the girl next door."

So you see, the wave didn't measure the state of post-war technology. It just measured that "everybody wanted to marry the girl next door". Of course, things went back into novelty with the sexual revolution during the 60s and the breakthroughs in DNA research.

Originally posted by stereologist
Regardless of what happens posters in that thread pick events and then proclaim that the events match the plot. Why is that?

How about this. You start by stating that devastating storms reduce/ increase novelty. Then you do the same for wars, inventions, floods, fires, earthquakes, discoveries, etc. Then having made up front decisions you draw your own plots and see if they match TWZ.

That would be real research. Nothing useful has been done in that thread in 150+ pages of shoehorning.

I understand your annoyance and I recognize that the lack of a consistent criterion has hindered Timewave research until now. If you read my previous posts, you'll notice that I put forth genetic novelty as the only kind of novelty measured by the Wave. Therefore, I start by saying that its novelty happens only under procreation.

0% of novelty happens when the genome of the offspring equals that of his parent, that is, cloning. 100% of novelty happens when the genome of the offspring does not ever match the genome of any of his parents, that is, the Singularity on December 21st. Of course, 100% of novelty cannot happen unless genetic engineering artificially induces its occurrence.

That said, I think I've devised a method for testing the Wave that will satisfy your need for a standard: Whenever two human groups very genetically different from each other begin to procreate together after a migration, the wave should indicate a novel moment. This method will work for the years before the start of genetic engineering.

Originally posted by stereologist
You are making up stories. You are making unwarranted connections based on a search for events connected by a plot. There have been probably thousands of assassinations between the 2 events and you chose to connect these unrelated event to support this graph. That's actually weird.

I've delivered a method for testing novelty values, and you may apply it to resonances. I define a resonance as a recurring pattern of migration and mating. That is, the parents of those born on moment X resonate with the parents of those born on moment Y if they have more genetic similarities than any other possible case. For instance, McKenna points out a resonance between Ancient Egypt and Nazi Germany. Notice that both civilizations had similar effects on the migration of Jews.

reply to post by theursprachist


Hmmm.

I understand your annoyance and I recognize that the lack of a consistent criterion has hindered Timewave research until now. If you read my previous posts, you'll notice that I put forth genetic novelty as the only kind of novelty measured by the Wave. Therefore, I start by saying that its novelty happens only under procreation.

But sexual reproduction does not lead to new genes, only the mixing of genes. You specifically state procreation and not mutations or new genes.

This method will work for the years before the start of genetic engineering.

Why would that be necessary. There are billions of people not involved in genetic engineering. What influence could that have today?

For instance, McKenna points out a resonance between Ancient Egypt and Nazi Germany. Notice that both civilizations had similar effects on the migration of Jews.

This is a non-starter. There were never any large number of Hebrews in ancient Egypt. There was never any Exodus.