Best martial art for survival when the brown stuff starts flying around

It depends on your goal.



The answer is subjective. No one has trained every "style," but there have been "experiments" that prove the efficacy of a martial art to a degree.


Take UFC 1 for example. The goal was to have a competition with no rules in order to see which martial art was the "best." Obviously it was in an enclosed environment where weapons could not be used, etc. When you introduce objects, or weapons, you complicate things. Coincidentally the small guy won this event with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.


Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is extremely effective when combined with a striking martial art like Muay Thai.


You really have to look at the sport of MMA to see how effect a martial art is, and BJJ, Muay Thai, Boxing, and Wrestling dominate MMA.

When you take it a step further and introduce the "no rules," you need the angle of combatives that utilize "dirty" tactics like eye gouges and groin strikes. The thing is ANYONE can eye gouge or groin strike, so your time should be spent learning a system and not just how to use dirty tactics.

Gracie Combatives would be a good foundation, and or along with Basic Krav Maga. More advanced sports Jiu Jitsu for grappling, and Boxing and Muay Thai for striking.

Last but not least you need a good strength and cardio base. You need to have cardio if you are threatened so you don't gas out, and you need to be able to move explosively. So this means you need to consistently perform cardio like sparring or running, along with some strength based training like power lifting or cross fit.

In addition, you may even want to train knife defense basics. A little training goes a long way when it comes to deflecting someone's arm away and defending yourself. Also buy yourself a decent knife to carry around.

The more questions you ask, the deeper the rabbit hole goes... If someone has a gun, it's a game changer.

reply to post by Testsubject3


You on the right track. You keep that line of thought you will get far. The thing with mastering the arts of any kind is with the experience, you can feel what your opponent is going to do after awhile just by the split second pivot moves, just simple timing and feel and no fear of winning or losing, just the fear of not doing what you could have done better. If your mind is strong your arts will be strong.

I was beating blackbelts and golden glove boxers from go at times just from my mind itself. Countering I find is the best way to face those who have more experience, wait for your window and strike with no fear.

It really lies within in the mind, just because someone is a blackbelt doesn't mean they are a true great blackbelt, anyone can get a black belt if you stick with it long enough, you have to basically as corny as this sounds, become a ninja blackbelt within by your standards not what the association tests you on.

Good luck with it bro, you seem to have your mind right where it needs to be.

reply to post by JAGx1981


What kind of black belts? Saying "black belt" has no context.

If you want to learn good self-defense,watch a video of George the animal Steel.The animal was ferocious.

reply to post by brindle



Animal from Seasme Street?

Originally posted by neo96
if it takes a person years to be ablie to pick up a gun and aim center mass within 10 to 20 feet and miss

then i feel sorry for them.

I'd be more worried about feeling sorry for yourself, and what you describe is easier said than done when taking into account the physio-psychological phenomena that occur in real world life or death situations.

According to Massad Ayoob (one of the most respected experts in firearms training) if you're simply aiming "center mass", then it's likely that you're already in trouble within 10 to 20 feet because a person can still be up and running for 14-15 seconds even if the heart is blown out of the body. Depending on the circumstances shattering the pelvis is a far superior option.

The average person can close a 21 ft gap, and fatally wound with a knife, in roughly 1.5 seconds or less; so if you're relying on a gun in a 10-20 ft "street fight" scenario, then you'd better be exceptionally fast with your quick-draw, disengaging the safety, and aiming... to shatter the pelvis (far superior to a "center mass" shot in such a scenario (remember that 14-15 seconds) ).... all while tachypsychia is making you feel like you're moving in slow-motion through water. A longer weapon like a baseball bat or a crowbar further reduces that closing time.

Your vote of "gun keet do" may sound cute, but it could simply leave you and the attacker both fatally injured, and your words suggest that you may have neither the knowledge nor the training to use firearm tactics effectively.

Hey there I have read most of the posts on this topic so far which is 8 pages. There seems to be a lot of back and forth over what is effective. Some of you agree a good bit and some of you say no no that's not the way, this way is better. I tend to find that anyone that says this way or that way is "the way" or "the best way" is very close minded. I am a lifelong admirer of the martial arts and am mostly self trained with a little formal training here and there. I had best friends in the martial arts all growing up, from black belts in TKD to a former Junior State Kickboxing Champ, a good friend who was in Krav Maga, to my best friend in high school who was mid level belt in about 5 different styles and then when into the Marine Corps and taught me a bit of what they were teaching him. Also my brother-in-law primarily sparred with me during the 2004-2005 year and became State Sparring Champ in ATA TKD that year. I am not bragging on myself btw just essentially giving my credentials so to speak, I also started studied Jeet Kune Do via books as well as some other fighting technique books written by Bruce Lee at a younger age. I have dabbled in Tae Kwon Do, Karate (at a younger age for a brief period), Krav Maga, Kickboxing, Military Martial Arts, Jeet Kune Do, and have even at one point gotten some pretty decent moves down from Capoeira, given this was when I was about 17, weighed less, and was much more flexible. I have no idea what my punching and kicking power are, never was tested on a machine. However I do believe that as far as not injuring yourself via knuckles etc. it's better to strike open handed than closed fist unless you've trained your bones to handle that kind of pounding. It has literally been 7 years or more since I have been in a fight, I have literally avoided those scenarios at all costs because I know what I can do when I am angry and someone will get hurt, which since I am mostly passive bothers me. However in a SHTF scenario I would not hesitate to kill someone standing in front of me just to make a point to other people standing around. If you're talking about Martial Law or Zombie Apocalypse type stuff then there will be lots of desperate people around willing to do almost anything for food, water, shelter, clothes, weapons, etc...or just anything at all that would better their chances at survival and if you happen upon a group like this and you look like you have something that they don't they will not hesitate to try and take it from you or your family. Desperation is what drives most people to commit violent crimes to begin with so logically it would happen the same way only on a wider scale since more people would become dangerously desperate in a short period of time. In this type of scenario I would use hand to hand as a last resort and if it was one person out of a group in this desperate situation that came after me like I said I would make an example out of him dispatching that person as violently as possible just to deter future aggressors from wanting any basically. I would use Gun or Knife first and if I didn't have any of these or had been previously not armed and not expecting an attack which is dumb in this type of situation but for the sake of argument I have nothing in my hands then I would fight hand to hand.

I agree with a point made earlier it is good for your first move to go after the throat.

1. Throat Strike
2. Kick to the Chin, Chest, or Knee immediately following throat strike.
3. Then as they will most likely be on the ground at this point if you are taking what I am saying situationally only and you are trying to dispatch that person to set an example, simply strike the side of their neck with a stomp or kick and you are good.

Alternate Scenarios

- They throw the first punch
1. Dodge and snap whatever limb is stretched out past you, most likely at the elbow of the extended arm.
2. You could then continue to hold on to said broken arm for leverage and wrench it up behind them in an arm bar.
3. You would then be behind them and would be able to grab them and choke them out. Pressing the back of their head slightly down into your arm with your hand or other arm, this further cuts off oxygen supply and renders them unconscious faster.

Typically someone is not going to lead with a kick in a fight but you never know they might know some martial arts too so assuming you already know some and they know some too, never underestimate someone with the cajones to lead off with a kick, obviously one of two or three things you can do here, either step in and reduce the distance between you and their kick before they can "snap" it so to speak, sweep the opposite leg, avoid the kick via side step, etc...just remember in these scenarios it's only really limited to your imagination, the best way to play these scenarios out is to get a friend and then go really slow to see how they would play out. If you practice these types of scenarios you can see what works for your particular body type etc...without the benefit of much training.

So in short No TYPE of martial art is markedly better than the other except with the exception of flashy showy martial arts versus those for practical street fighting applications, but all can be taken down to their base roots with some mental dissection and found to be effective in some way to you. Keep in mind I also have not seen anyone mention it's also about what area you are in and what Martial Arts you have available to you, number 1. they are not cheap to learn to begin with, 2. Depending on the form(s) of martial arts you are talking about not everyone is going to leave their state, city, or let alone country just to go off and learn Shaolin Kung Fu, or Ninjutsu.

For example: the area where I am in I have the option of TKD, Private lessons of Aggressive Street Shotokan Karate, Wing Chun, and that's about it. Take what is available to you and use it, if your state has a militia like mine does you can join your local militia and attend training from members that are former military who will teach you practical field survival skills, shooting, facts to know about drinking water, plants to eat in the wild, how to shoot a quarter at 300 yards etc....lol......Hope this helps.

Pencak silat. I'm a experienced martial arits and I say, that in the end of the world, people aren't going to punch you. They are going to do everything they can to kill you and eat you. Bring weapons.
Kill before being killed.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


lol Just as I said, blackbelts, as in people in different martial arts with black belts.

Anyways, it's been nice to read this thread, you all just remember no matter what you master or think you have mastered, when the time of a life or death combat situation occurs, your mind is the most powerful weapon.

Peace out!

Aikido for the effectivity and speed, at least in my opinion... I practise the traditional Iwama ryu style which can be quite rough.

I would definitely top Aikido with Dim mak - then the attacker never knew what hit him...

But of course - I would first pray that I never got in a situation that requires this type of defense...

The problem with alot of these unheard of systems is that there is no where to train it and no "reputable" person that teaches it for everyone to learn from.

That's why you need to use something that has been tested, and proven in the real world, and that has a popular system.

All this karate talk is making me want to go chop a watermelon to pieces.Im gonna chop and kick,and im gonna use my numchaks like a speed-demon.Maybe I will break out the chinese throwing stars while I am at it,just for good measure.

the most important thing by far when learning a martial art is to find a good teacher.
as for the best martial art, its JKD of coarse.

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0
The thing is ANYONE can eye gouge or groin strike, so your time should be spent learning a system and not just how to use dirty tactics.

edit on 29-5-2011 by v1rtu0s0 because: (no reason given)

This is incorrect in my opinion. When you are in an actual fight, you will do whatever it is you have trained hour after hour doing. You aren't thinking rationally. You aren't saying "hmmm, I should eye gouge now". Your training takes over, so if you don't train with street or "dirty" (no such thing) tactics in mind all the time, then you aren't as likely to use them in a real fight. This is why it is a problem bringing a sport fighting system with safety rules to the street.

Sure, to some level your instinct to use dirty tactics will kick in, but compare that to someone who has included these tactics as normal part of their training day after day, year after year, and you have a problem.

-----

There is this idea floating around these days that traditional martial arts are a joke. I believe this idea started floating around because of the "Mc Dojo" and "Strip Mall Fu" days of the 80's and 90's, where a lot of crappy teachers burst on the scene and started giving children black belts. I also believe as of today that the glorified "prison culture" of MMA sporting events has fostered the idea that these guys are martial arts masters, and that what they are doing in the ring is the end all-be all of fighting.

For those of you who have no training and believe that traditional arts do not work, I would tell you to go try it. Find a reputable school with a good instructor, check references if you have to and research their lineage, then go give it a try. You might even be able to ask for some sort of demonstration so you can see how effective it is. I know if you walked into my Wing Chun school and asked for this, my Sifu would be more than happy to assist you in your research (no sarcasm meant, he would want to show you that it works). Any school with a good art should, in my opinion.

I said elsewhere in this thread that I am a fairly strong 180lb man who does not consider himself a wimp. I think most of us like to think that if someone backed us into a corner, we could do a decent job of defending ourselves. Well, let me tell you that it was a very, very humbling thing to start training Wing Chun, and have my Sifu who weighs 15 or 20 lbs less than me walk through me and put me on the ground like I was an insignificant 50lb child. In fact, even though my skill has increased immensely in the past 2.5 years, he still needs little effort to put my in my place and I know that if I had to come to blows with him or someone like him, I would be out cold inside of about two hits. What really freaks me out, is that my Sifu continues to train with his elders in our lineage, and they smack him around! This, of course, is a good thing because that means he is continuing to improve, and as he learns more, I have more to learn.

This brings up another point I have learned. If you are going to start a martial art, find a teacher who is still training with people better than him/her. Unless we are talking about an instructor who has reached a grandmaster level, a title bestowed upon him/her by their peers, then I believe all instructors need to continue to train. This is especially true of principle based arts (such as Wing Chun) where the actual movements are open to interpretation and not set in stone. How can you test new moves and theories you come up with unless you can test them on someone as good or better than you? Anyway, that's just something to keep in mind.

Originally posted by DragonSpirit2
Hey there I have read most of the posts on this topic so far which is 8 pages. There seems to be a lot of back and forth over what is effective. Some of you agree a good bit and some of you say no no that's not the way, this way is better. I tend to find that anyone that says this way or that way is "the way" or "the best way" is very close minded. I am a lifelong admirer of the martial arts and am mostly self trained with a little formal training here and there. I had best friends in the martial arts all growing up, from black belts in TKD to a former Junior State Kickboxing Champ, a good friend who was in Krav Maga, to my best friend in high school who was mid level belt in about 5 different styles and then when into the Marine Corps and taught me a bit of what they were teaching him. Also my brother-in-law primarily sparred with me during the 2004-2005 year and became State Sparring Champ in ATA TKD that year. I am not bragging on myself btw just essentially giving my credentials so to speak, I also started studied Jeet Kune Do via books as well as some other fighting technique books written by Bruce Lee at a younger age. I have dabbled in Tae Kwon Do, Karate (at a younger age for a brief period), Krav Maga, Kickboxing, Military Martial Arts, Jeet Kune Do, and have even at one point gotten some pretty decent moves down from Capoeira, given this was when I was about 17, weighed less, and was much more flexible. I have no idea what my punching and kicking power are, never was tested on a machine. However I do believe that as far as not injuring yourself via knuckles etc. it's better to strike open handed than closed fist unless you've trained your bones to handle that kind of pounding. It has literally been 7 years or more since I have been in a fight, I have literally avoided those scenarios at all costs because I know what I can do when I am angry and someone will get hurt, which since I am mostly passive bothers me. However in a SHTF scenario I would not hesitate to kill someone standing in front of me just to make a point to other people standing around. If you're talking about Martial Law or Zombie Apocalypse type stuff then there will be lots of desperate people around willing to do almost anything for food, water, shelter, clothes, weapons, etc...or just anything at all that would better their chances at survival and if you happen upon a group like this and you look like you have something that they don't they will not hesitate to try and take it from you or your family. Desperation is what drives most people to commit violent crimes to begin with so logically it would happen the same way only on a wider scale since more people would become dangerously desperate in a short period of time. In this type of scenario I would use hand to hand as a last resort and if it was one person out of a group in this desperate situation that came after me like I said I would make an example out of him dispatching that person as violently as possible just to deter future aggressors from wanting any basically. I would use Gun or Knife first and if I didn't have any of these or had been previously not armed and not expecting an attack which is dumb in this type of situation but for the sake of argument I have nothing in my hands then I would fight hand to hand.

I agree with a point made earlier it is good for your first move to go after the throat.

1. Throat Strike
2. Kick to the Chin, Chest, or Knee immediately following throat strike.
3. Then as they will most likely be on the ground at this point if you are taking what I am saying situationally only and you are trying to dispatch that person to set an example, simply strike the side of their neck with a stomp or kick and you are good.

Alternate Scenarios

- They throw the first punch
1. Dodge and snap whatever limb is stretched out past you, most likely at the elbow of the extended arm.
2. You could then continue to hold on to said broken arm for leverage and wrench it up behind them in an arm bar.
3. You would then be behind them and would be able to grab them and choke them out. Pressing the back of their head slightly down into your arm with your hand or other arm, this further cuts off oxygen supply and renders them unconscious faster.

Typically someone is not going to lead with a kick in a fight but you never know they might know some martial arts too so assuming you already know some and they know some too, never underestimate someone with the cajones to lead off with a kick, obviously one of two or three things you can do here, either step in and reduce the distance between you and their kick before they can "snap" it so to speak, sweep the opposite leg, avoid the kick via side step, etc...just remember in these scenarios it's only really limited to your imagination, the best way to play these scenarios out is to get a friend and then go really slow to see how they would play out. If you practice these types of scenarios you can see what works for your particular body type etc...without the benefit of much training.

So in short No TYPE of martial art is markedly better than the other except with the exception of flashy showy martial arts versus those for practical street fighting applications, but all can be taken down to their base roots with some mental dissection and found to be effective in some way to you. Keep in mind I also have not seen anyone mention it's also about what area you are in and what Martial Arts you have available to you, number 1. they are not cheap to learn to begin with, 2. Depending on the form(s) of martial arts you are talking about not everyone is going to leave their state, city, or let alone country just to go off and learn Shaolin Kung Fu, or Ninjutsu.

For example: the area where I am in I have the option of TKD, Private lessons of Aggressive Street Shotokan Karate, Wing Chun, and that's about it. Take what is available to you and use it, if your state has a militia like mine does you can join your local militia and attend training from members that are former military who will teach you practical field survival skills, shooting, facts to know about drinking water, plants to eat in the wild, how to shoot a quarter at 300 yards etc....lol......Hope this helps.

From one dedicated martial artist to the next, great advice!

Tai Chi

Literal Translation: Ultimate Supreme

Tai Chi is meant for close combat, kill or maim fighting tactics.

Tai Chi is not meant for long drawn out fist fights. You either kill with one blow or neutralize the enemy so you can escape.

It takes years to master the Chi aspect and the physical forms are fantastic for improving flexibility, degree of mobility, and improving joint health. The meditative aspects of Tai Chi are beneficial for development of self.

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0
The problem with alot of these unheard of systems is that there is no where to train it and no "reputable" person that teaches it for everyone to learn from.

That's why you need to use something that has been tested, and proven in the real world, and that has a popular system.

I agree with this too, and earlier in the thread I said that training something will always be better than not training. My first Wing Chun instructor told me that even Boxing is a great idea if you don't have available, or don't want to train martial arts. Learn *something*.

There are other practical matters at work here too. How long does it take to learn the system you are interested in. How much time will you dedicate do it? How old are you, and how hard can you physically condition? Planning to learn multiple arts (to their completion) is not viable for most people. I would also recommend against 'dabbling' in various arts in some misguided attempt to build your own mma style. Go learn at least one WHOLE system from a good teacher, where you can train with partners. Then later if you want to add some stuff, go for it.

Someone who is 35+ years old may not be able to stick with an art like BJJ for long unless they are in fantastic physical shape, and even then the younger guys will wear you down. Go find some thing else that is more attainable and practical for your needs. I don't know Karv Maga, so I can't talk about it, but Wing Chun is an art that is made for all ages, and body types. It is an art you can continue to practice and use well into old age. Try doing BJJ when you are 50, 60, 70 years old and your physical strength is waning . There are probably other arts that are practical to learn, and will go with you as you get older.

reply to post by OoohLaDeDa


Then just lay there and dont fight dirty see how long you last...ill rip eyeballs out, rip apart jaws i dont care ill do whatever to survive

reply to post by Damek


Ya in another lifetime I trained and competed in BJJ. But that was before Buddhahood..

reply to post by WordPlayJAy


Listen to this one.
He/She knows what is going on.
TaiChi, Kung Fu, Shodokan are all useless against the PTB, they practice GunFu.
You better too.