Lookin for some honesty from some older members and lurkers. Chem/con-trails.

This issue is rediculously murky and I don't understand why.

I'm in my early 20's and I remember lookin at the sky a lot in early elementary school, around the early 90's.

I don't recall a whole lot of lines in the sky lasting for 1-4 hours. BUT that's me and that doesn't mean just because I don't remember seeing them, they weren't there.

However, I know there are some older members and lurkers here that remember when airliners were fairly new-ish.

- My request is this; ----- Post if you remember seeing these lines like we do now (gridded up sky's with lines eventually turning a nice sunny day into something of a hazy/cloudy sky)

- OR - ----- post if you remember not seeing anything like the lines and grids we see today.

This should be fairly easy, if they're con-trails, this phenomenon of sorts should not be a phenomenon at all because they've been around since the first high-altitude airliner...... right?

LET IT BEGIN! Hopefully this thread doesn't become as murky as the issue and we may able to tally up some results! Let's get some honesty! Try not posting if you don't have anything worth adding, so we may actually be able to add up the input for some kind of result. Thanks.

reply to post by Jazz87


I'm in my 40's. I don't really remember seeing long lasting trails when I was young.

I've lived in Los Angeles for the last 18 years. I only started paying attention to the long-lasting trails in 2007. I don't really remember them before that.

The evidence certainly seems to suggest they were there however. I just don't remember them. I think that's far more to do with memory than the actual trails.

reply to post by Uncinus


Well.... Hmm. I suppose we'll tally that to not remembering them. For the sake of the thread.

Remember -- 0

Not remembering -- 1

Thanks for the input man.

Keep it up , maybe even dig up some old photos to help the brain-pan stir up some memories?

reply to post by Jazz87



I'm 52 and I remember seeing them all the time when I was a kid in the '60's. I remember because I asked my dad, who was an engineer, to explain to me what caused them.

reply to post by wtbengineer


Alright! That's what I'm lookin for.

Remembering - 1

Not remembering - 1

That's interesting, and they would hang around for a good part of the day or just for some minutes? Not tryin to delude just painting a clearer picture.

reply to post by Jazz87
Yeah, I gotcha, many times for hours. Maybe most of the day, I don't know, I never spent that much time looking at em.

I'm not epic old, but I do remember some contrails lasting for hours, arching over the sky and you could follow it right to the horizon.

anyways, this isn't going to work because.....

We see grids and patterns because of the insane amount of air traffic, you simply didn't have this 20-30 years ago.

the conditions are the same. I suggest, as a supplement to your experiment, go read the ENTIRE wiki article about contrails, how they form, what conditions have what effects, then come back here.

The Glynco Naval Air Station was working in full force when I was born in 1947.

I am also in between Savannah and Jacksonville that are both homes to military air stations.

Yes I remember the contrails growing up and enjoyed seeing the jets in the sky.
We had many sightings a day due to being so close to the ocean,

The jets would do special excerises over the water.

There were a lot of blimps here too but that is another story.

I do not remember the contrails being of long or short duration.

I see both types now.

I used to sky watch all the time with my friends when we were little kids... we all remember contrails in the sky and them lasting for a few minutes, perhaps up to an hour, but not the whole day, not EVER.

We also spent time looking at the sun with welding goggles, and I can not recall one day as a child, and neither can any of my friends, where we would see a clear sky in the morning that would be haze by the end of the day, JUST from the trails left by planes.... it never, ever, not once that anyone can remember, happened.

I haven't jumped into this topic because there are just too many trolls... but the science does not hold up. A particle of moisture from the engine of a jet may freeze at ultra high altitude, but nobody ever accounts for wind, air temperature, high and low pressure, etc. which would cause the particles to separate, fall, rise or melt. It would take almost perfect conditions to keep those trails in the sky all day, and not for one second is someone going to convince me that almost every day is perfect for those conditions.

Just my $.02.

~Namaste

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Definitely some good points, I may have to go read that to get a bit more perspective. Thanks for the input.

When I stand outside of work for a smoke and see a few lines and then look about 10-15 mins later, those line are 10 times wider, not sayin anything conclusive, just I don't see water vapor behaving that way BUT that said, I will go read further.

im not much older than you op im 25 and remember seeing them as a kid in the early 90s. i would watch as a plane approched a contrail and expected them to crash when it hit them. haha oddly enough i still have that morbid curiousity of seeing an in air collision...


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by Jazz87
Keep it up , maybe even dig up some old photos to help the brain-pan stir up some memories?

Good idea. You're from the PNW, you should look up old photos of local landmarks near where you grew up (maybe like Mt Hood.) on Flickr. See if there are any contrails.

Here's one from 1985:
www.flickr.com...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c2e1f3fcc0c1.jpg[/atsimg]

One from 1964:
www.flickr.com...@N04/2745667710/
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/03fb0d64ac70.jpg[/atsimg]

Or more in your date range: 1991
www.flickr.com...@N04/1414536178/
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/df9fd12b01ff.jpg[/atsimg]

Or just a random photo from Portland, OR, 1995:
www.flickr.com...@N00/4358794258/
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c10b2a6a2b4e.jpg[/atsimg]

With photos, or course, you've got to be careful that the photo itself is actually prompting an existing memory, and not creating a new one.

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne


Alright so far,

Remembering - 4

Not remembering - 2

(sonofthelawofone) chalked yours up to NOT only because I think that's what you would probably put it under? Correct me if I'm wrong.

reply to post by Uncinus


NIICE, that's cool, thanks for posting those. Here's my stance I don't think they 100% natural, but I'm not completely biased and stuck in the mud that's why I made this thread.

To get perspective on it, I figure ask people who've been around and are willing to share what they remember without it gettin trashed because it doesn't fit the thread mold.

Hopefully when this thread runs dry I will have a better outlook on the topic, and appreciate people honestly tryin to add to the discussion without tryin to make people believe one side or the other.

reply to post by strafgod


lol

Second liner.


Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.

Here’s a chart for the UK from 1978 to 1999. See page 4.

Here

The current population of the UK is 61 million. But in 1999 in the UK alone there were 150 million passengers. You are talking about almost 3 time the number of the current population! Is there any wonder why we see more contrails now than in our childhood?

I'm 51 & live in the South Pacific.

Down here there was only 1 overhead air route when I was a kid - between 2 cities 200 miles north & 200 miles south (and it's still the same there now). I remember seeing long contrails along that route before I started working - so in the early 70's and late 60's - sometimes the one from the flight in 1 direction would still be there when the a/c went back in the opposite direction an hour later.

I remember them spreading out a little - but not over the "whole sky"

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


So far

Rem. -- 5

Not rem. -- 2

Thanks.

I'll play!

I'm in my 40s and grew up in SW PA. I used to love looking into the summer sky and seeing long CONTRAILs. I would follow them across the sky to see if the plane was still in the air. This isn't a new phenomenon, they've been around for as long as I can remember!

This would be in the 70s. Yes, the skies around Pittsburgh weren't THAT bad. You have to remember that the Steel mills were starting to shut down and the air quality started to improve.

Originally posted by Feltrick
I'll play!

I'm in my 40s and grew up in SW PA. I used to love looking into the summer sky and seeing long CONTRAILs. I would follow them across the sky to see if the plane was still in the air. This isn't a new phenomenon, they've been around for as long as I can remember!

This would be in the 70s. Yes, the skies around Pittsburgh weren't THAT bad. You have to remember that the Steel mills were starting to shut down and the air quality started to improve.

You are correct, air traffic has steadily increased since deregulation, with occasional dips during recessions and depressions. We have seen in the last 15 years however many of the regional airlines that used lower flying turbooprops, have switched to the smaller jets too.

I was fascinated with aviation as a kid, and wanted nothing more than to be a pilot from the time I was 3 years old. And I certainly remember contrails across the entire sky. and for those who insist contrails never persisted, how do they explain stories of it from WW2, and that persistent contrails have been studied for decades?

clouds.wikia.com...

"Cirrus aviaticus, commonly known as a contrail or vapour trail, is a cloud formation which forms due to pressure and temperature changes caused by aircraft jet engines in the surrounding air. Usually, cirrus aviaticus dissipates quickly, but it can remain visible for long periods of time and even spread given the right atmospheric conditions."