Lookin for some honesty from some older members and lurkers. Chem/con-trails.

reply to post by Jazz87


I have been looking at blue skies for over 60 years. I can remember looking at a certain amount of contrails all my life. The sky was blue and I mean blue and sunny on a summers day. 15 years ago I started working what I call vampire hours. I slept alot of the days away and up about all night. I didn't get to see much of the sky. This past year I have found myself unemployeed like so many others. I would get up in the morning to a nice spring or summer day which didn't last past 10 am. I kept wondering what had changed I knew something had. Some days I will see contrails going in all directions within an hour the sky will be like a sheer white veil and never see the blue and sunny sky again. I ran across an article about chem-trails. I asked my son about it and he said he had heard about them .They were for climate control. He never has been a conspiracy nut or on these type of sites. I have no idea where he got his information. I asked a friend who lives in Egypt. I asked what color the sky was there. The answer was blue of course. I explained why I ask and got a hearty laugh. Then I read that chem-trails if they exist is being done in North America, all NATO countries. Some in South America. Nothing apparently in the Middle East. I really don't care what people say I know beyond a shadow of doubt something has definitely changed. While people debate about the why and how. I really miss my nice mornings and sunny skies.

Originally posted by redrose123
reply to post by Jazz87

 

Then I read that chem-trails if they exist is being done in North America, all NATO countries. Some in South America. Nothing apparently in the Middle East.

A quick search for "contrails egypt" on flikr gives plenty of evidence to disprove that - www.flickr.com...

I've been around for a while, now, and here in the inter-mountain west and the northern high plains I see no difference in the behavior of contrails. There are certainly MORE of them than in the 60's and 70's but they act the same as far as I can tell. And you can see a l-o-n-g way from a mountain top!

I'm 50, from Indiana US. I remember contrails just as they are today from my childhood. I had an interest in the planes over my head because my father commuted by plane for most of my childhood. There is always the wonder if Dad is in that plane over head. There are absolutely more planes now. In my town, we have a public small plane airfield, and an airport that used to service an international cargo line along with commercial travel. We also have an Air National Guard; I'm not sure if they share runways or not, but the larger airport and the ANG are beside each other. I know I am in the flightpath of planes going from the East Central US flights to Chicago (and back), so rarely see anything other than contrails in that general direction.

reply to post by Jazz87


I was in the USAF from 1990 to 1996. I remember having a guy come into our unit that had a BS in aeronautical engineering, but he was enlisted. I was amazed that he didn't apply for OCS since he would be able to. Anyway, me being a guy who didn't have a BS I thought he would be a wealth of knowledge for the many questions I had. (there was no Google back then) I asked him why some contrails lasted a long time and why some went away quickly. He didn't know. Now either he didn't pay attention in class, or they didn't teach him about that, but it doesn't matter. I clearly remember being interested enough to ask this question in the early 90's. Being 43 now, I have a hard time remembering what I had for breakfast, but that one memory seems to validate that persistent contrails have been around for a bit.

reply to post by Jazz87


I'm only 37, but I do have a pilot's license, and I have stared at the sky since I was old enough to roll over!

There are more lines, because we have more air traffic. Much, much, much more air traffic.

The lines are more persistent because the airliners are flying higher and faster than ever before. Plus, with more lines, the lines tend to drift and combine and kind of form a high hazy layer.

ATS created the "geo-engineering" forum, because there is plenty of evidence to support chemical testing and spraying from airplanes. BUT, that spraying is NOT the long white lines. Those are "Con"trails. 100% of the time. If and when they spray, it is at a lower altitude, it quickly dissipates and falls to their intended target, and it is almost completely invisible, especially from any kind of distance.

So, persistent white lines = contrails. 100% of the time. There are more of them for the same reason there are more roads and more WalMarts and more TacoBells.

You also have to consider how much air travel has increased since its conception.

There are 10,000 planes up in the air on planet Earth at any given time. Plenty of chance for chem trails.

reply to post by wtbengineer


used to lie on my back and watch them fly over in the late 70's early 80's, the contrails would last or not as often as they do here now

Originally posted by wtbengineer
reply to post by Jazz87

 

I'm 52 and I remember seeing them all the time when I was a kid in the '60's. I remember because I asked my dad, who was an engineer, to explain to me what caused them.

I am 48 and I also remember watching airplanes with their contrails in the air but not in a way that I could play virtual chess with them.

Like this



Just looking at the picture above the chances this happening somewhere is IMO for innocent, normal reasons small ...but possible.

When this will occur again in the same area in the sky you can think they must have different jet-enigines and a, or a few airline companies must have opened-up new destinations that like miracle cross eachother with 90 degrees.......

When this picture doesn't only happen in the sky above my house but above the houses of many people all over the world there is maybe something wrong in my reasoning.

reply to post by Jazz87


I'm an old fart, I saw JFK's funeral procession on b&w TV as a boy. I was very much a sky watcher in my youth but I do not recall if there was always mist behind planes. I know I've seen trails behind planes for a very long time, nothing new.

There is a difference between the skies of the 1960's and 2011. There is probably a difference in the propulsion units used to move those bird metal birds, as well. I'm sure there are a lot more flights today than there was when I was young. So many variables.

My two cents, I think the vapors left behind planes are probably from the differences in temperature of the sky and the propulsion unit exhaust. But I'm not an aircraft engineer or a environment expert or a blah blah blah.

I live in a highly condensed populated area. My primary observation is how few small private craft are flown about in recent years. Perhaps they fell out of popularity. Once I was told many professionals would buy small planes because their earnings were high, and if they didn't spend the money it would just go to taxes. I guess they would later sell the plane used and recoup a few dollars.

As a kid in the 70's and 80's I remember watching the contrails form behind aircraft high up in the sky. I mean so high you couldn't always see the aircraft at the front making it. But I don't remember them lasting all day or spreading out the way they do now. They seem to form lower these days too.
Also on a clear sunny warm day when there are no clouds why do the trails form? If the conditions aren't there for cloud formations then surely the same goes for contrail formation. I've lost count of the number of days that I've woken to clear skies only to see them haze over by lunch time.

1st time i notified was around the age of 7, in 1984-85.
They lasted long enough.

The thing is, i lived near a not so busy airport located right above the great lakes route to catch the polar jet stream. So these days, we see 2 or 3 new sets of contrail every 15 min. In the 80's it was less frequent but still a normal occurrence.

reply to post by zatara

I've never seen anything like that picture you posted in my life. Where was it taken?

I'm in my mid forties and don't remember seeing long lasting contrails in the skies when I was at school.

I don't remember it snowing before 1979 either.

(think about it )

reply to post by Jazz87


exotic weapons systems’



107th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. R. 2977

HR 2977 Space Preservation Act of 2001

The term `exotic weapons systems’ includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space

(II) through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such persons or populations; or

(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity of a person.

(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as–

(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;

(ii) chemtrails;

(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;

(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;

(v) laser weapons systems;

(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and

(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.

SOURCE Read it for youself

reply to post by knowneedtoknow


Then debunk it for yourself.

contrailscience.com...

Originally posted by zatara


I am 48 and I also remember watching airplanes with their contrails in the air but not in a way that I could play virtual chess with them.

Like this



Just looking at the picture above the chances this happening somewhere is IMO for innocent, normal reasons small ...but possible.

When this will occur again in the same area in the sky you can think they must have different jet-enigines and a, or a few airline companies must have opened-up new destinations that like miracle cross eachother with 90 degrees.......

When this picture doesn't only happen in the sky above my house but above the houses of many people all over the world there is maybe something wrong in my reasoning.

so I guess you and everyone around you are very sick and need to wear masks and use oxygen on a regular basis? Is there a cancer cluster in your neighborhood? Just think about what you are claiming here. If this happens on a regular basis, then you have the obligation to expose it to the world. Unless you live a normal life and most of your neighbors do as well, then perhaps they are just contrails.

So after a quick scan were at

Remember -- 10

Not remembering -- 6

That's what I got.

I'm gonna think on this further and dig up more information. I still have a hard time believing this is just the result of more powerful, higher flying airliners. BUT I haven't fallen off the fence just yet.

reply to post by Jazz87


here is a question for you. Since you have such a good memory and all, were most of the clouds you saw as a child Cirrus or altocumulus?

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne

... I can not recall one day as a child, and neither can any of my friends, where we would see a clear sky in the morning that would be haze by the end of the day, JUST from the trails left by planes.... it never, ever, not once that anyone can remember, happened.

You never saw cirrus clouds move in or out during the course of a day? That is not physically possible, regardless of what you may "remember." Airplane contrails are exactly the same as cirrus clouds. That is scientific fact, known since the 1940s.

Ice-supersaturation in the upper troposphere has long been inferred from the observation of long-lasting aircraft contrails in otherwise clear air [e.g., B rewer,1 946], but only recently has instrumentation been capable of accurately measuring ice-supersaturation from aircraft at cold temperatures.
Some degree of ice-supersaturation must have been present in the clear air to maintain the contrail, but a higher ice supersaturation must be required to produce ice crystals from the ambient aerosol population.

ir.library.oregonstate.edu...
GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 25, NO. 9, PAGES 1343-1346, MAY 1, 1998

I haven't jumped into this topic because there are just too many trolls... but the science does not hold up. A particle of moisture from the engine of a jet may freeze at ultra high altitude, but nobody ever accounts for wind, air temperature, high and low pressure, etc. which would cause the particles to separate, fall, rise or melt. It would take almost perfect conditions to keep those trails in the sky all day, and not for one second is someone going to convince me that almost every day is perfect for those conditions.

I'll post this for others who may be willing to accept science over faith.

Maybe you just haven't been looking in the right places. Scientific journals, unlike wikipedia and youtube, require analysis that stands up to question and verification. Here's the Journal Nature on contrails:

Contrail cirrus initially form behind cruising aircraft as line-shaped contrails and transform into cirrus-like clouds or cloud clusters in favourable meteorological conditions, occasionally covering large horizontal areas. They have been tracked for up to 17 h in satellite observations. They remain line-shaped, and therefore easily distinguishable from natural cirrus, for only a fraction of their lifetime.
...
Contrail cirrus are composed of ice crystals that—similarly to natural cirrus—reflect solar short-wave radiation and trap outgoing long-wave radiation. ... Contrail cirrus form and persist in air that is ice-saturated, whereas natural cirrus often require high ice supersaturation to form. This implies that in a substantial fraction of the upper troposphere, contrail cirrus can persist in supersaturated air that is cloud-free, thus increasing high cloud coverage.

www.nature.com...

Or, you can just continue believing whatever you want, regardless of science or fact. That's par for the course in the "chemtrail" religion.

deny ignorance?
As for my own observations, I've been around since air travel was novel and people dressed up to take a flight anywhere; there were no "regional airlines" - all flights were at least an hour and they served warm meals.

There is nothing different in the contrails today, only more of them due to greater air traffic.

The skies I see are blue as often as then and I still get to see stars and planets in the night sky (only now, you get to see spacecraft and satellites, too!). I see days start blue or cloudy, change over time and change some more. It's called "weather."

None of my family or friends have been sickened, died or been rendered mindless by clouds or contrails in all this time, and some of us work outdoors daily in every type of weather /sky condition.

Some of us have raised our own crops and livestock for over 40 years, and none have been affected by the clouds/contrails.

What I have notice is a marked drop in the educational performance and critical thought abilities of successive generations raised more and more indoors, watching TV and YouTube, instead of reading and learning about life and nature first-hand. I do not relate this to contrails, though, but to parents, and schools, and the students themselves who just don't give a rat's ass about learning for learning's sake.

jw