Autistic or Just Not Conformists?

A human's first inclination is to observe and interact with its environment. Autism is primarily noted by the subject's lack of apparent interest/interaction with the physical environment- by popular standards, to varying degrees.

It is beyond the current human ken to perceive that there are those content to study and understand existing parameters- in lieu of exacting or forcing personal desire/whim/ego on what is already in existence. The sheer number of human interaction 'rules' boggle the mind- when one is not born knowing or able to perceive/intuit what is occurring around them from a 'human' perspective.

The visual interplay of dust particles dancing along a sunbeam as it streams through a window pane is breathtaking in its scope- multiplying its wonder a thousandfold as it skips, envelops and regains its order in spite of a hand inserted in its midst.

It is possible to experience a 'connectedness' to the light, the particles and the stream, merely by acceptance into its world. The ramifications of such an understanding is incredible in the scope of understanding self and the placement of self in the larger world.

Repeated displays of such behavior could get a child in severe trouble, ranging from detention, suspension or diagnosis and treatment with mind-altering chemicals. Human teachers require observation and undivided attention- supposedly to teach their subject more thoroughly.

Who hasn't been forced to focus all attention on a speaker only to see that their body language is in direct conflict with their words? So do we follow the body language or the words? And if you read ahead- and are able to pick up the filtered errors, does one follow the book, the body language or the words? And this just scratches the surface of conflicting messages.

Mathematics and music are the most conducive subjects expressly because one is not required to juggle a multiplicity of conflicting information merely to reach a conclusion. Not everyone learns like a monkey- by aping behavior exhibited by someone else- or regurgitating select lines taught by rote, easily memorized. And not everyone can physically display 'rote emotions' taught as genuine. "Crocodile tears, anyone?" But that doesn't mean the emotions aren't felt, and deeply.

Some of us walk amidst the greatest system ever known to exist in all our universe and just want the chance to immerse ourselves within it and experience it before the rest of humanity completely alters/destroys it.

I do not have to exploit a thing to value it, but I fear I am increasingly alone in that thought. I know humanity is in a race, but where, where are they taking us?

au-tism A mental condition, present from early childhood, characterized by great difficulty in communicating and forming relationships, and in using language and abstract concepts

My verbal skills consist mainly of memes (concepts), foreign words which identify concepts, applicable quotes from movies (concepts), and a plethora of descriptive swear words, always used appropriately and in context. usually as a bridge... unless discussing my favorite boring subject (which you can guess from my other posts).

Does the identification reveal the problem in the one who is perceived autistic- or in the ones requiring the affirmation and visual clues? Is the wider brush being used to declare autism indicative of its spread - or is it rather, indicative of the audience who requires constant attention, affirmation and feedback? Everything useful I learned, I learned from a textbook- not a pantomiming teacher.

Thoughts?

I think that autism, although there are cases in which real issues are apparent, is a way too label social problems that are being "bred" into the average American.

Many people, not just kids, have severe problems in social situations and communication. Add to that a society in which we have better relationships with technology and we lose the basic fundamental tools we need to communicate with our fellow humans.

Since we are not willing to look within our lifestyles for the "cure", we reach for the pharma solution. Thereby perpetuating the problem, not solving anything.

reply to post by Ev0lveUp


Einstein didn't talk

Einstein always comes to mind when reading about autism spectrum. I don't know...sometimes society's rules just seem to push too much and sometimes kids just aren't ready to well, interact. Is shyness a part of the austism spectrum or is it just shyness? I was painfully shy growing up and felt like an outcaste but you know, I was smart. I see the same shyness in my daughter and she hates school and I think it's because it's so in-your-face. I can't stand being around a ton of people, loud noises and constant stimuli...am I a narcissist? Not even close.

I don't know where you got the 1 in 7. Sounds like alarmists trying to sell articles. ASHA, an association for speech pathologists says says it's more like 7 in 100.

My wife specializes in treating autistic children. In her experience, pediatricians are loathe to make that prognosis in all but the most extreme cases at the far end of the spectrum. No doctor wants to be the bearer of the news that anybody's pride and joy is in any way defective.

Usually it's "Don't worry he'll grow out of it." in most cases no medication is prescribed.

What she is finding is an increase in kids who are a little "quirky.". They often tend to be the kids whose parents are both in fields of science or engineering. The kids tend to be brighter overall and way more analytical. They are more concerned with identifying patterns and the relationship between the patterns thAn expressing themselves towards others.

reply to post by zarp3333


Actually, the 1 in 7 was corrected since the source was projecting a figure that I could not substantiate any where else. The closest I came was an average of 1 in 110- www.cdc.gov...

The title was corrected as soon as a secondary source proved to be a quote of the first- but thanks for your immediate response.

reply to post by queenofsheba


Nice reply, and I am going to change the title once more- since the question was not are autistics' narcissists, but rather- are more people being labeled part of the autistic spectrum because more of our society require constant visual, verbal feedback and approval.

Hope that clears things up.

As an "Aspe", (Aspergers) child, I was into relating to the birds outside. I would closely watch, follow, their dramas, and totally understand and be into them, while human girls were oblivious to everything except each other and their interractions and dramas, standing in their clique circles, talking about other girls, re. boys. I just could not relate to that at all, it was alien to me. This one girl would mercilessly ridicule me every chance she got and everytime she saw me, about birds.

reply to post by Ev0lveUp


Thanks for clearing that up. Sometimes people see words in a negative way than what they were intended for.

Originally posted by simone50m
As an "Aspe", (Aspergers) child, I was into relating to the birds outside. I would closely watch, follow, their dramas, and totally understand and be into them, while human girls were oblivious to everything except each other and their interractions and dramas, standing in their clique circles, talking about other girls, re. boys. I just could not relate to that at all, it was alien to me. This one girl would mercilessly ridicule me every chance she got and everytime she saw me, about birds.

i don't know you and can't really speak of your situation but the fact you use the term aspe calls to mind something i have experienced in my life. people love to label things and when they see someone acting differently they often choose the latest words that they think fits the description. I have been called an aspe by a very unintelligent very uninformed individual solely based on the fact that I was different than her and she couldn't figure out why- so she had to label it to give herself a sense of security and assumed knowledge where i am concerned. it's an ego/power issue.

Not knocking anyone who has this syndrome and not saying that it doesn't exist but from what i understand of it, this description doesn't fit me at all. Aspergers is characterized by a certain amount of aloofness. Not being able to read body language and feeling of others. They are typically NOT introverts and do have verbal skills (unlike autism which is a different disorder) albeit one sided and self absorbed. they often do not pick up on emotional cues outside of verbal language. they are said to not be able to read facial expressions very well and this sets them apart from others as being awkward... although they do not tend to avoid engagement with others at all.

People often mistake someone who is perhaps disassociative as an aspe and I find this very annoying. I do pick up on all sorts of cues from others and spend most of my time trying to ignore the absurdly obvious fake cues that people try to send out in their incessant curiosity about an introvert that they do not understand. the way i see it, I look around and see many possible aspies... and it is not me at all. They seem to be completely aloof to the non verbal messages I am sending out though unspoken emotions or facial expression or body language cues... which is quite ironic. It's not that i don't read them or can't relate, it's that i find many people very shallow and have to spend a lot of time filtering out contrived social interactions so that i do not become annoyed at people who live life like a script, rather than being themselves and turning their curiosity inward to learn more about themselves rather than directing that curiosity to another in aggravating behavior so that they can label something. I find that people try and try to indirectly repeat a performance of notions in order to make an impression or get a reaction, often which i ignore if they don't find the courage to be more straightforward and the grace to take a one on one approach to something they wish to know or explore... so I avoid giving them the reciprocation to their indirectness... only for them to try harder and harder to repeat the same thing thinking tha i am unable to pick up on their cues and I find myself just wanting to look at them and scream "THANK YOU CAPTAIN OBVIOUS... I GET YOUR POINT AND I DON'T CARE BECAUSE YOUR SHALLOW NOTIONS ARE JUST THAT BORING AND TRITE TO ME AND I'M EXHAUSTED FROM TRYING TO IGNORE IT"... but the dialogue is never open enough to allow this without me looking out of line... so I just let them think whatever the hell they want.

Understanding different types can be very useful but careless labeling often obscures the truth.
Don't let others drag you down with labels.

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on a different note....

I considered something strange about telepathy lately. there are a lot of people wondering these days if they have telepathic abilities and how to tap into them. It occurred to me that words could be more easily obscured than than other sensory evidence. Words can recontext something into things totally different than what they were to begin with. The human mind has the ego to deal with and the ego is often the first to speak up. I do believe that thoughts in words can be transmitted by unconventional means (telepathy) but what if other types of thoughts are more pure? less easily obscured by mental chatter? In a sense being more true in meaning than the more easily obscurable words of the mind?

I know what I am trying to say but I'm not sure if I made it clear. I'm trying to speed through it and lack better vocabulary for it right now.
Words are useful, but perhaps there are much more pure forms of communication... of course there are but perhaps they too- like words- have to be exercised and used in thought as a language. All people have these things, but do they know how to effectively use it as a tool of communication?

I also want to add that according to the standard of asperger's... people who often utilize alternate forms of communication and do so well and in interesting unique ways are very likely NOT aspies at all! apergers is noted by a very marked lack of depth of empathic character. that is completely different than an introvert or a dissociative person who explores alternate means of communication or self exploration. just because both dissociative and introverts and aspies often do not have a lot of social companions does not mean they are the same. That characteristic originates from different reasons and is one of the most superficial guidelines of diagnosis. Dissociative likely do not want many casual social interactions, whereas an aspie often does seek social interactions and very often superficial ones- they're are just not good at maintaining them because of a lack of being able to relate on a deeper level. It is a very common misconception that they are deep- they are actually known by their lack of depth.

I was diagnosed by a psychiatrist in a VA hospital. I was a weird kid, then in my late teens-early-20's I became more 'normal' enough so, as to be in the military, and do okay. Then something super traumatic and strange happened to me. I did two enlistments and got out of my own accord, with an honerable and accolades. Into civillinandum, I became very quite beset with all kinds of maladies of which fit most of the descriptions of a couple different diagnosis found in the DSM. I have a few different umm disorders, ("overlaping") and one is primary. But I was in the VA hospital for 3 months and interracted with LCSWs, Psychologist, nurses, and Psychiatrist MD.

There is a link between autism and brain chemistry related to vitamin B6. The B6 that's added to our food and dietary supplements is garbage. Many people can't use it and it never makes it past the blood-brain barrier so the brain can't perform the chemical reactions required for normal function. One form of active B6 has already been restricted because some pharm company uses it in their own proprietary formula. The other active formula was almost restricted but enough people wrote the FDA to stop it from happening.

The pharm companies would rather make money off of people with B6 deficiencies than let people have active B6. Many of their target users, such as people suffering from anxiety and depression, could greatly benefit from the proper B vitamins and even overcome their illnesses. But there isn't enough money in that and those same people support the medical profession in other ways. Psychology is expensive and somebody has to pay the bill. Educate yourself about B vitamins and see for yourself.

www.nutritional-supplements-health-guide.com...
www.naturalnews.com...
maddoktor2.com...
autism.healingthresholds.com...

Originally posted by simone50m
I was diagnosed by a psychiatrist in a VA hospital. I was a weird kid, then in my late teens-early-20's I became more 'normal' enough so, as to be in the military, and do okay. Then something super traumatic and strange happened to me. I did two enlistments and got out of my own accord, with an honerable and accolades. Into civillinandum, I became very quite beset with all kinds of maladies of which fit most of the descriptions of a couple different diagnosis found in the DSM. I have a few different umm disorders, ("overlaping") and one is primary. But I was in the VA hospital for 3 months and interracted with LCSWs, Psychologist, nurses, and Psychiatrist MD.

Interesting. This makes me curious because being called one repeatedly by a 20 year old drug addict I have a tendency to want to explore the character of someone diagnosed as such. I hope you don't take offense to that. It's more of a personal thing and I shouldn't let something like that bother me but it makes me very curious how others think and draw their conclusions. People often surprise me with how much they think they know. Like i said, eager to label and it's a curious issue with me. I know I have done it and try to be cautious of that. see it often in others and feel I must analyze.

Out of curiosity, what do you think it was in your personality or in your actions or perhaps something you told them that caused them to give you this diagnosis? I know these things can be very general and take a long time to unfold through therapy but I believe most people can center in on some primary origins of what confirmed it for them.

Originally posted by simone50m
I was diagnosed by a psychiatrist in a VA hospital. I was a weird kid, then in my late teens-early-20's I became more 'normal' enough so, as to be in the military, and do okay. Then something super traumatic and strange happened to me. I did two enlistments and got out of my own accord, with an honerable and accolades. Into civillinandum, I became very quite beset with all kinds of maladies of which fit most of the descriptions of a couple different diagnosis found in the DSM. I have a few different umm disorders, ("overlaping") and one is primary. But I was in the VA hospital for 3 months and interracted with LCSWs, Psychologist, nurses, and Psychiatrist MD.

Could your change in civilian life be related to civilian diet?

Sometimes I speak from my gut and unfortunately that causes me to err... but it's reaching in an attempt to understand something that is otherwise poorly communicated.

My GUT tells me that the girl in particular who insisted that i had this had been labeled that herself and felt the need to project it on to someone else... coupled with some need to make me feel different than others. I have certainly explored my differences a lot more than she has and to her, it should not be an issue... but people are odd.

When I look at various disorders, some of the "symptoms" describe me very well while some do not describe me at all. That goes for MANY different disorders. For example, I can be quite antisocial but I am not one to violate the rights of others. I have been prone to disassociation and escapism and my moods change but I do not have the extreme of multiple personalities and forgetfulness associated with that. I can be quite avoidant but certainly do not lack a fair amount of confidence that is associated with avoidant disorders. I wash my hands a lot but can be a slob sometimes. I'm a hard worker with extreme bouts of laziness. I consider myself to be intuitive and considerate but sometimes I just don't give a #. perhaps for that and other things as well, perhaps i could be called unstable, a ticking timebomb, but I have never completely lost control and have yet to make any huge mistakes. I could go down a huge list and do this but it is because they are just descriptions set into rigid guidelines. I don't think people are so clockwork. It's a market. People are who they are. It's more important to understand them as people than to call them names.

Nature will balance itself regardless of whether our egos like it or not, for it is governed by the laws of this Universe, just as we are. And whether we like it or not, we are ultimately natural beings (a part of nature it has to account). Perhaps autism is nothing more than nature taking over where we've obviously left off.

As for school, what makes it so boring is that it no longer challenges our natural level of ability whatsoever. It comes no where near, or even closely ranged, to the level of problem solving or critical thinking needed to challenge the inherent intellectual capacity that would enable viable, relevant growth. We have all obviously been terribly stunted, for at least decades if not longer, by a system that wants us ignorantly blissful and willing to do things we wouldn't be naturally inclined to do.

When I watch an autistic child (my nephew for instance) interact with his immediate environment, I see expressions indicating genuine condescending bewilderment coupled with empathic disappointment when he witnesses everyday scenarios and behaviors we all seem to take for granted. It's like he knows better. It's like he's ALWAYS known better, almost since he was born.

He is a very, very happy child with an inordinate curiosity of the small things we never see. He constantly compels me to delve deeper, if for nothing more than just to be along for the ride. From these journeys, I have never come away with anything short of great appreciation of his level of consciousness. I'd like to think he was bringing me along to stub my toe on viable wisdom, but who can know.

My ego wants this to be nonsense, but perhaps we simply don't want to face the fact there are evolved beings among us, just starting to grow up, immune to our indoctrination and naturally compelled (like attraction or repulsion of magnets) into a complete spite of our established, "so far out of balance that it brings one to tears" ways.

Isn't it quite possible that some of our children are far more evolved, and at least twice as intellectually capable or conscious than we've ever chosen to be? Perhaps they are destined to be the true "Awakening of Humankind" this planet's been waiting for.

S&F for a good read OP.

I made an oopsie. I wasn't diagnosed by the psychiatrist with Autism, it was some other things, more predominent, he felt, and one primary thing, but the non psychiatrist staff, such as my LCSW and Therapist there, said I seemed like an Asperger Autistic to them, and I viewed the clinical description, and definitely had most, -except- the non empathy.

people have mentioned eye contact aversion with me... and I often can't because of who it is, but I just want ask them "do you have any idea how much pot I used to smoke?'

don't try to insinuate I'm autistic just because I keep forgetting to buy visine.

now whenever my eyes get red from wind, sun, sneezing, yawning etc... those who knew me as a pothead always assume I'm stoned... which I actually haven't been a while.


ah it never ends.

there are a certain group of people who i love to observe because of all the odd things they notice about human behavior. I can't stand drunks and cokeheads but many chronic psychedelic drug users are terribly interesting and very smart people.. although it's very sad to watch one of them get "locked in"

nothing makes me laugh like internet trip reports. it's risky territory but there is some very interesting stuff in there. i'm not here to advocate drug use but I bring this up because there are parts of society that are screaming to break out of the traditional mindset mold.

maybe this need in society is even showing up in so called disorders as others have suggested.
it's something to think about. we shouldn't shun the unusual. we should face our own fears of the unusual and look beyond. what's bad is when pain is inflicted and traditional society inflicts pain all the time and insists upon it's right to do so... and what is different is shunned, buried... not explored, not given validity to be.

To continue on the subject of what an autistic person is; they range in different areas. Some are completely shut and are locked in and have no way of getting out, drugs will only make it worse, seeing a psychiatric doctor will make it even worse that it was before. So the one who's trapped goes to another form of communication, The word. It can be spoken, however, the autistic is either limited to can't use it. They look for other ways, a pencil, cards, sign, a computer, anything to get them out of their prison. They find their "key" and it helps them get out.

This is one who is shut.

While another one who is repetitive, and will continue to do the same thing, becomes somewhat of a pro at the thing they do. Whether it's playing a games, studying how the world works, ect. They have a desire, and anyone who gets in the way of that desire they either ignore their plight and brush them off or do an action that will hurt the one who made the plight. As they try to speak, they can speak through their action more clearly than when you speak to them using your language of words. They do things with their hands, and hardly with their mouth. They have little to no relations, they are ridiculed for their behavior, and they take all taunts and jokes seriously.

This is either a Savant or an Ausperger.

My parents saw me, in my younger years, as someone who's just by himself. One who would lock himself in his room, and play video games. They were not interested in the things I do, so I did not have the inclination to tell them what I was doing. Later, I was sent out to a place, only to be sent back to home. Then they found out that I was diagnosed with Ausperger syndrome. They went to doctors and put me on drugs. When I found the truth about drugs I got off of them immediately and never took another drug again.

This is the truth, we are different, and it's difference that scares people, that makes them hate the different ones. We are also way-seers, we see a way and we go down that path, even when others nag at us saying that we must go down another one. Who said that we need to socially acceptable? I say no one.

"I am me! Nobody else!" Remember this, those who are reading this post, Remember that you are you, and no one but yourself can change you.

I have never touched illegal drugs in my life. I don't care to, ever, either. The thought of that, always terrified me. I'm so sensory sensitive, that if I were to ingest a psychedelic, I'm certain I'd die of a massive heart attack from the psychic overwhelming induced, most likely. I don't drink much, either. But the day They come and try to take our coffee away from us, is the day They will sieze a steaming mug from my cold dead hand.

Originally posted by simone50m
But the day They come and try to take our coffee away from us, is the day They will sieze a steaming mug from my cold dead hand.

I forgot to mention another thing, once a autistic or autistic related person gets a hold of something, they won't let go, even if they are about to die.