Secret Cookies on your computer that you cannot delete

ScepticOverlord: Just a quick thank you regarding this and other issues. One, I didnt know you ran the site...two, am impressed how much you explain and defend in extremely informative advice and explanations (and without losing your cool)...three...just thanks for giving us this place.
Mysterioustranger

Originally posted by sprocket2cog
Hi, i went looking to see what i could find about cross domain flash cookies...

Still possible, but need to control root node of XML
file

At one point, all shared objects were accessible by all Flash applications, if the programmer knew which variable names to access, and from which domains.

The cross-domain framework of Flash was initially intended for Flash applications that might have multiple assets across many domains. One example would be a Flash video player hosted on a singular domain, but accessible as an embedded player on several other domains.

These are two separate issues of Flash that have both been properly locked down during the past three years. But given the nature of the Internet, there will still be old content accessible via Google that discuss the very-real security concerns of old versions of Flash.

Thanks OP for the time you took.

Moved to the hoax eh

There is your answer to the little questions that go around in your head about ats and its staff.

With their actions they always prove it....

I mean the info is true and not a hoax. Once again thank you OP for taking the time to let us know about these things.

Shame that ats let you down as you believed that they would not censor this thread.

Just cos the 'guy' 'thinks' or 'feels' that its not true and the REST of the ats members should not view it.

Abosolutley cynical is the word.

OK, just a heads up.
Yesterday I downloaded the new Firefox 4
and installed it over my old Firefox 3.16 (I believe).
Nothing to bad about that thus far, some things have
moved around and there seems to be more real estate
on the screen as the bottom task bar is now gone.
Ok, maybe I wanted to keep that, oh well on to the point.

I also followed some of the directions here in this thread
and created my .bat file and used the gui to clean my LSO's
and also downloaded and installed some Firefox plugins
maybe like 4-5 of the top ten for Firefox online privacy.
Now, here's the weird part.

After restarting, I opened Firefox and now I have regular
cookies flooded in my browser cache from sites I never heard
of and are not associated (I thought) with the plugins I just
installed. So I see those cookies and open the web options
interface and click delete all. And they disappeared and I
closed it out. I immediately opened it again and the same
exact cookies are there again and I didn't even open
a new web page or click on a link.

No matter how many times I delete them from the options
interface, they appear again afterward. So deleting them
does no good. The only way I can figure they are getting
back in there is from the browser plugins I installed. I even ran
the LSO cleaner .bat file and they are still there. It seems
to me that these cookies are being set from the free plugins
from Firefox.

Or maybe I'm wrong, you tell me

From what I am seeing, this has nothing to do
with ATS source code, so Bill is in the clear
with me.

I can’t help but feel the OP has blown this way out of proportion.

Now correct me if I’m wrong here, but aren’t these "security threats" incredibly minimal. Yes, they know your browsing preferences but they are not about to give someone your bank details.

Not to mention it takes someone with allot of knowledge on the subject to do anything with this information.

or you run ur pc as a ghost unit.

Either way, nice thread

Originally posted by TristanC
Not to mention it takes someone with allot of knowledge on the subject to do anything with this information.

Yep someone like Google with their 30+ year cookies that track your movements all over the web.

Just because you personally wouldn't invest the time and knowledge to abuse the super cookie system, don't think for a second that there aren't PLENTY of people out there who would.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
Moved to the hoax eh

Yes. Because the information presented that sites/domains other than those who wrote the cookies and "LSO" files can read the content of those files is false, misleading, and alarmist.

There is your answer to the little questions that go around in your head about ats and its staff.

That we prefer accuracy and truth over paranoia and false information?

Originally posted by maskfan
Yep someone like Google with their 30+ year cookies that track your movements all over the web.

Strong statement.

Can you explain how that would happen?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by maskfan
Yep someone like Google with their 30+ year cookies that track your movements all over the web.

Strong statement.

Can you explain how that would happen?

I assume here, i do mean assume, that while everyone was initially trying to grasp how to create a web site, they were already creating a data mining database that obviously is in today's market worth literally billions.

Originally posted by maskfan
Yep someone like Google with their 30+ year cookies that track your movements all over the web.

I still can’t see this being a problem unless you’re visiting sites that you shouldn’t be.
E.g. Child Porn, Movie Piracy, Music Piracy etc...

Stay within the law and there is no problem.

As for data collection, its the 21st Century - everything done electronically is tracked in some form.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I don't want to get into a fight with you about this SO I know its something you're passionate about and personally I don't have an issue with anything this site does in regards to Cookies.

However long term cookies that stores information tags that interact with things like Google Analytics, Google Ads et al are clearly used (at the very least) for long term study of browsing habits.

I'm surfing around ATS in general at the moment (reading), but if you really want I can go dig up information from the blackhat SEO boards about super cookies, possible exploits and (theorized) Google's monitoring techniques. That does seem like a lot of work to provide you information that I'm pretty sure you already know and which will go over most peoples heads, just so you can attack the information so the non-web tech inclined feel slightly safer. If you really insist I will do it later.

Tristan C: It doesn't need to be a problem, but it could be seen as an invasion of privacy, especially as most people don't have any idea its happening. For the most part its all good and cookies are actually very helpful (as long as your machine isn't super super clogged up with them).

Originally posted by TristanC

Originally posted by maskfan
Yep someone like Google with their 30+ year cookies that track your movements all over the web.

I still can’t see this being a problem unless you’re visiting sites that you shouldn’t be.
E.g. Child Porn, Movie Piracy, Music Piracy etc...

Stay within the law and there is no problem.

edit on 29/3/11 by TristanC because: Spelling Corrections.

Take the time to read through it all and on the idea of if your visiting sites that you shouldn't be, well, show me one person who uses the internet that has not visited a porn or porn related site material that was either on a state or nation level branded as illegal.


On the other hand, take the time to read through the article, it is worth your 3min's.

The problem with that argument is that it makes commercial internet enterprises the under-regulated custodian of our most intimate intentions and secrets. And their interests are a million miles from ours. Asked last December about whether users should be concerned about sharing so much information with Google, CEO Eric Schmidt replied: "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place."

And why would he say anything else? Google is now sitting on what one writer calls "the database of our intentions" – and it's a database worth billions.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Originally posted by tristar
they were already creating a data mining database that obviously is in today's market worth literally billions.

Having once been deep in the advertising and direct marketing industries, I have a grasp on what kind of data is valuable... "browsing history" of individual computers (which cookies identify) is not something of value.

Purchase history, job history, earning history, housing, etc. are the data points that represent value. All of which are obtain through offline means or online retailers that share data they're not supposed to share.

Additionally, for "Google" to "track" someone across the "web," there would need to be additional software on your computer that, by now, would have been discovered.

Here is a good visual on how Google uses cookies to Datamine you..
donttrack.us...

As well for Firefox users, I swear by these extensions.
Ghostery
www.ghostery.com...
BetterPrivacy
netticat.ath.cx...

I agree, NO hoax here, the ATS PTB have spoken though, so to hell with what the members think

Sometimes I feel like we need a cyber equivelent of the Egyptian Revoloution to happen on ATS which of course could never happen, but then I remember ATS is primarily a business, and if you go against any business then it will cut you off as a bad investment, so I guess all we can do is either ignore it, make a comment that will have no effect, or make a comment that will have an effect with the risk of getting banned

as a follow-up to my prior post,
I actually looked inside those cookies
that kept appearing after deleted
and their expiration date was
Dec 31, 5000

like I'm gonna live another 3000 yrs.
hahahaha

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by tristar
they were already creating a data mining database that obviously is in today's market worth literally billions.

Having once been deep in the advertising and direct marketing industries, I have a grasp on what kind of data is valuable... "browsing history" of individual computers (which cookies identify) is not something of value.

Purchase history, job history, earning history, housing, etc. are the data points that represent value. All of which are obtain through offline means or online retailers that share data they're not supposed to share.

Additionally, for "Google" to "track" someone across the "web," there would need to be additional software on your computer that, by now, would have been discovered.

Totally agree, however, given that the majority are not that fluent in above average functions and blindfully accept and install software to supposedly remove tracking cookies and we both know that there are methods to track and reply to particular browsing history. I am pleased you mentioned the adv. industry. Having recently finished a freelance project ( within a team) for a particular company based in the U.K. that has successfully for several years or should i say 2 years now only tweaked their satellites sites, it has at its disposal customer static time. So the end result was, or should i say, given the recent economic blow across europe, was to spice those sites that were not upto or how they referred to it as " not bringing them in" to a level that user interaction was crucial and leeds were to be generated along with potential target groups to be given bonuses that could be exchanged upon purchase of goods. This particular company is in the gaming industry which as you more than likely are aware of, is a billion dollar industry. Perhaps i might be off target here, but either way, having potential customer analysis is worth its digital weight in physical gold.

Originally posted by boondock-saint
as a follow-up to my prior post,
I actually looked inside those cookies
that kept appearing after deleted
and their expiration date was
Dec 31, 5000

like I'm gonna live another 3000 yrs.
hahahaha

You wont, but your pc might end up in some museum in the future along with a sign indicating, " Ancient Man's Devices"

Originally posted by maskfan
However long term cookies that stores information tags that interact with things like Google Analytics, Google Ads et al are clearly used (at the very least) for long term study of browsing habits.

Not necessarily. What you state is a common knee-jerk conclusion resulting from bad information spread by those with an agenda to perpetuate paranoia over "cookies."

Google Analytics doesn't track IP addresses. The system aggregates site utilization information so that website owners can understand the traffic, and traffic patterns, on their websites. There are other analytics systems that record IP addresses (a few third party systems, and server-centric systems), but we won't use those.

AdSense and Google Ads (including DoubleClick) use the non-identifying information of their cookies to remember which ads have been viewed by your computer, target new ads, match ads to domains, and attempt to match ads to domains visited within a finite window of time. Having some intimate familiarity with advertising servers, it's impossible to retain a computer's entire browsing history *AND* be profitable with delivering advertising. The data storage and code overhead of such a proposition becomes mind-boggling on a large scale.

but if you really want I can go dig up information from the blackhat SEO boards about super cookies, possible exploits and (theorized) Google's monitoring techniques.

I'm aware of a great deal of what you're referring to. However, does it relate to the notion proposed in the opening post that domains other than those who write cookies and LSO's can see the content of these files? And, that once viewed, something of value must be in those files?

Even if you are concerned that a malicious site may be able to see the domains of all the cookies in your browsing history, which is a "safer" methodology:
(1) Deleting cookies once a day so that a short list of daily cookie domains may be witnessed?
-or-
(2) Never deleting cookies so that an overwhelming worthless list of thousands of cookies are witnessed?



I've said it a few times before, once in this thread, and a couple times in other related threads, the "cookie paranoia" is a strategy of Fear-Uncertainty-Doubt perpetuated by parties with a specific agenda. If the proposed legislation such as "do not track" is passed, the resulting harm to niche websites you love will be significant, while the benefit to large mainstream sites will be staggering.

The proposed legislation (all current forms) will make it very difficult for small to mid-sized sites to survive because the third-party ad networks on which they rely will be severely hobbled.

However, the mainstream sites with the resources to run their own ad servers (or farm out ad serving under their domain) will have no such restrictions. Advertisers will have no choice but to limit their activity with the large mainstream sites in order to deliver online ads that have any effectiveness.

I've encountered dozens of industry professionals (and politicians) who long for this to happen so that the independent voices of sites that counter the mainstream will be silenced as their funding is either cut-off, or cut to an unsustainable level. The perception being, among big mainstream site operators, that all these independent online publishers are of no value and should disappear (seriously). You can be absolutely certain that "cookie paranoia" is a tactic by which "they" hope to silence the independent web.