Fallen Marine's father says anti-gay pickets will draw gunfire

reply to post by JonoEnglish


thank you, I personally believe are generation is fine! In fact, my generation is probably the most open minded and friendliest.

Originally posted by zptramel
reply to post by JonoEnglish

 

thank you, I personally believe are generation is fine! In fact, my generation is probably the most open minded and friendliest.

Yeah, your generation gets some knocks by us old timers. (I'm only 37 )

You know what, the same sort of thing used to be said about my generation whilst i was in school, the same could be said for my grandads generation too when he was your age. People like to view their past with rose tinted glasses at times.

I really like your approach to that situation....

There is no such thing as morals, only truth and opinion. You are arguing over weather a glass is half full, or half empty. These are called an opinion. Truth would be to say that there is a glass and it contains a liquid of some measurement. If you think that WBC is wrong, that is an opinion...your so called morals are an opinion. The truth is that they are people who are protesting on public property, which is thier RIGHT. Your opinion on that means nothing. Go ahead and trample those humans rights, you will be next.

Don't even bother with this baiting Muzzle, it's just a waste. Let them bask in thier moral fortitude, one day they will be a minority, except we won't be there and they will wish we were.

Nothing that a few soft tip rounds wouldn't hurt. There non-lethal...but sting more than a paint ball!

reply to post by muzzleflash


I tend to agree with you, but the behavior of Westboro is beyond expressing opinion, which is what freedom of speech is intended to protect, is it not? Their behavior is not reflective of simply expressing opinion, as it it targets individuals of whom they have no actual circumstance to protest against. This is simply harassment. And maybe rather than restrict the right of them spewing their "opinions", maybe steps should be taken to protect others rights to peacefully mourn at a funeral. That's not restricting the speech of the crazy people, that's just protecting the mourners from having to hear the crap in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Originally posted by SMR


While I in no way condone violence as such, It wouldn't hurt to have a few paint ball or pepper ball guns out there for these creeps.

How can they be allowed to spew their HATE like this? If I go out and call someone a 'faggot' I would be arrested and charged for a hate crime. Yet when these guys do it, it is protected under "Freedom of Speech" ? REALLY !?

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I agree on the need not to act w/violence. But just how much can this inbred group of mean f%^$*&* bastards think someone who has suffered the greatest agony, the death of a loved one, will not at some point invite an "emotional reaction"? To put it mildly. Yes, I support freedom of speech, but these barbarians are causing HARM, and severe injury by their words. Judge Judy is wrong... Stick and stones (you know the rest), CAN INDEED WOUND and Injure in the most unabashed vile manner. A bully can drive a vulnerable one to suicide. Words have STARTED WARS! They insult to say the least all who's faith is of the Baptist Protestant Christian sect. Baptists and I have had our disagreements, when in particular of the fundamentalist kind. But all of that sect I have ever met were always kind, and sincere in their views. It did not matter if we were discussing, as rational people, evolution, homosexuality, etc. It is obvious the Westboro "Baptist" church makes a mockery of ALL who ascribe to the Baptist sect. One of my dearest friends belong's to a sect of the Baptist Fundamentalist faith. Knowing my difference's with his faith (He takes the Bible verbatim, does not accept evolution, etc; but who cares?), He has always been decent and open minded enough to at least hear me out, as I did the same for him. My friend in my mind is the personification of "Christian" Kind, a slavishly devoted family man, and generous to a fault. He invited me to attend one of the services at his church. I felt honored he did, not to try to convert me, but share his view of Christ's compassion. (I suppose if I was converted he would not have had a problem with that...) I was seriously honored to attend a service, with a discussion group afterword. Interesting.

When one uses the religious excuse to spew hate, and among the greatest crimes against man and God as I see it; cruelty, I must ask: Did you ever get ANYTHING out of the Bible that had to do with the absolute compassion of Jesus? While I no longer subscribe to a formal faith, I consider my self spiritual. I was raised Catholic, and though I have questions about how certain things "work" (I guess the WBC goose steppers hate Catholics as well. Not a surprise. ) I, being raised Christian will no doubt call to JC when I feel I'm about to have certain people inherit my "stuff," I know because I had two NDE's. I also asked the Buddha for any help, hell it's called maximizing your options. If anyone, regardless of any "embedded" faith followed the teachings of Christ and/or the Buddha you can't go wrong, IMO.

The cruelty of that group in "the little evil clown car" are the main reason we must, indeed ALL nations have a separation of church and state. And of course freedom of religion. The WBC are in my view the same as terrorists, the nature of terrorists to create "terror", or in their case, devastate those most vulnerable. They do more damage to the grieving then a bomb ever could. As for how to deal with the WBC monsters, and there ARE real monsters out there, take away what they seem to feed on, publicity. Use an ancient way of dealing with the undesirable ones; Shun them. No pictures, nada, zip. Don't cover the fact they are any were. THAT would just kill them, figuratively speaking. And that would make me at least a little happy. And less I forget, my most sincere honors and condolences to the family/friends of any of our military men/women who have died. I wish I could some how reach out and embrace those who have had to endure this most vile behavior, and let them know I grieve with them, though I won't pretend to have any appreciation of their agony.

Don't believe evil, is an entity of it self, and that it exists? Look no farther then the WBC son's-of-bitch's. Oh yeah, true evil is them, in our face.

reply to post by muzzleflash


There's a lot of truth to that...

As reprehensible as the Phelps clan, and their professed views, are; they are allowed by our own nations laws to express those views.

Hatred is what these clowns want... Why give them just that much more ammunition?

Know that they are wrong, and leave it at that. Support the families of the fallen, and ignore these carrion crows that flock to the funerals... Violence plays into their hands, as does the hatred.

One thing I *do* agree with is where folks say how is their anti-homosexual rhetoric not deemed "hate speech" thus considered a "hate crime"? if you have freedom of speech to call someone a "faggot" and hate them for it, they do too, but if you don't have that freedom without getting charged with a hate crime, then how are they let off the hook? They speak of "judgement against" for the "tolerance" of homosexuality.....not the typical Christian rhetoric of "hate the sin, love the sinner", eh?

I wouldn't kill that inbred fool, but if I met him in a dark alley sometime, he would be walking with a cane the rest of his life.

Karma is a bitch. You want to make it your life's mission to cause others pain, well what goes around comes around. I feel it's only a matter of time before someone introduces him to the business end of a chunk of lumber....

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

There's a lot of truth to that...

As reprehensible as the Phelps clan, and their professed views, are; they are allowed by our own nations laws to express those views.

Hatred is what these clowns want... Why give them just that much more ammunition?

Know that they are wrong, and leave it at that. Support the families of the fallen, and ignore these carrion crows that flock to the funerals... Violence plays into their hands, as does the hatred.

How would you feel if the following day after 9-11 a mob of Muslim protestors, held signs up chanting "death to america" or worse directed at those who died in the streets of NYC?

Would you be outraged? Would you sit back in your seat and say, " Well, that's frredom of speech for you." or would you make a stand against those that are using their freedom of speech?

Should you be held responsible for ripping their heads off for inciting such a response?

i would have felt like doing just that and I'm from the UK.

While, no moral human beign can condone or promote the actions of this church, their right to carry out these actions is protected under the first amendment. Instead of calling for the already so constrictive and repressive government to do somthing about this, why dosen't everyone who wishes to do so, fight within the system to halt this churches actions. Gays have a right to freedom of speech too. You can't be hypocrtical when applying the right of free speech.

Although for all I care, I wouldn't mind if someone were to take out a few of these ignorant cowards.

You can have no expectation of privacy when in public except in ones own personal effects. If WBC was to postest at a funeral on private property, that is the only time they would be in the wrong. If you value privacy, then bury your family member on private land, not in some public human landfill.

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant
While, no moral human beign can condone or promote the actions of this church, their right to carry out these actions is protected under the first amendment. Instead of calling for the already so constrictive and repressive government to do somthing about this, why dosen't everyone who wishes to do so, fight within the system to halt this churches actions. Gays have a right to freedom of speech too. You can't be hypocrtical when applying the right of free speech.

Although for all I care, I wouldn't mind if someone were to take out a few of these ignorant cowards.

I get what the other side of the debate is saying. One rule for all, no matter what.

However, there's political freedom of speech and freedom of all speech.

Two different things.

www.heraldsun.com.au...

Is that acceptable, or should they be free to do what they did?


Edit: we all know what the by stand by effect is. Most people do nothing hoping that some other person will step in to said person in need of help.

This is what law is there for, you can call the police where rules are established to keep the vunerable from harm, emotional or physical.

edit...crikey, I should learn to type and enrol at college in English Language.

reply to post by zptramel


Thank you for injecting a little humor. It's true that counter protests work. Look at Comic Con for an example.

I do pray for these people.

reply to post by tncryptogal


Praying does jack s*it. I'm sure they do that too.

Arrest them, move them away from the funerals, let them protest their point somewhere else.

reply to post by JonoEnglish


It's true, it is horrible what these people are doing, and what those people did to the dying girl Kathleen. Unfortunately the world we live in is not perfect and not every person can be the model of a great decent human beign like yourself. It is important to continue to cry out at injustice, but my stance remains the same. We can not be hypocritical to what you can say and who can say what to who. We must fight injustice without hypocrisy.

Just for the record, the article you linked me to comes from an Australian newspaper. Under the Australian constitution you do not have the same extent of freedom of speech as you have in the U.S. In Australia you are only gauranteed the right to political expression.

Protesting at a soldier's funeral is bad enough, but I would think that protesting a child's funeral would be one of those things universally accepted as wrong by the majority of human beings, regardless of race, religion, right/left/whatever political leanings. It's just so...sick. Pretty much all logical people can agree on certain things, I think...rape is wrong, murder is wrong, child abuse is wrong. I would think that protesting a child's funeral would be on that list. They have the right to express their beliefs, not to harass, not to attempt to instigate violence for profit, and definitely not to victimize the family/friends of fallen soldiers and especially children. Should they be killed? No way....I know there's a lot of people who would disagree with some of my beliefs and I shouldn't be shot because of that.
However, these people are playing with fire and it's probably only a matter of time before something happens. Maybe it's a simple assault, or a shooting, my bet is a fire/bomb at their compound. I'd bet they're even planning and hoping for something like that to happen. Let's say nothing ever happens, they're just a bunch of incestuous, close-minded, crazies who will fade into obscurity sooner or later, and that's probably the best case scenario for them. Would I be upset if something violent happened to them? No, believe it or not some people get what they deserve and I'm not talking about some hypothetical afterlife. I believe the world would be better off without them so it'd be hard for me to sympathize with any tragedy that could possibly occur.

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant
reply to post by JonoEnglish

 

It's true, it is horrible what these people are doing, and what those people did to the dying girl Kathleen. Unfortunately the world we live in is not perfect and not every person can be the model of a great decent human beign like yourself. It is important to continue to cry out at injustice, but my stance remains the same. We can not be hypocritical to what you can say and who can say what to who. We must fight injustice without hypocrisy.

Just for the record, the article you linked me to comes from an Australian newspaper. Under the Australian constitution you do not have the same extent of freedom of speech as you have in the U.S. In Australia you are only gauranteed the right to political expression.

It doesn't matter which Country the article relates to. It's the message that it gives about the right of freedom of speech in certain circumstances and when it is wrong and should be stopped.

BTW...I'm soooo whhhhaaaay off being a model person. I like my porn, weed and I get drunk far too often to be called that. ...and I still like my smokes which seems to make me a health hazard to so many out in the open air.

I just don't underatand why so many people can see their actions at a funeral as acceptable. I understand it's within the law but trying to defend it is, I don't know ....odd. The law needs to change.

Originally posted by Primordial
So what you are saying is that you would like to use the law to censor what YOU hate? Should then the WBC be allowed to use the law to outlaw homosexuality?

Can't have it both ways.

And please don't come back with how you don't 'hate'.

There is nothing wrong with hate. I hate lots of things. Some deserving, some just personal. I really hate religious fanatics like those at the WBC. REALLY. I will still defend their right to express their hate of things.

So why then are there "Hate Crimes"
What they do at their protests are indeed hate crimes. I have posted this several times now and nobody has yet to dispute that fact.

Hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, social status or political affiliation.

"Hate crime" generally refers to criminal acts that are seen to have been motivated by bias against one or more of the types above, or of their derivatives. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters (hate mail).

It is being said that they have rights to "Freedom of Speech" I don't disagree with that.
What I am trying to point out is they go beyond this Freedom according to "Hate Crime" laws.
Holding a sign and chanting "God Hates Fags" falls under verbal abuse or insults to "membership in a certain social group" and therefore a "Hate Crime"

I am sorry but I only read the first page. I just wanted to state that I believe this is the old divide and conquer tactic. It is obviously working just from the comments from the first page. I do not need to read more because it is more or less the same.

Everybody is worried about other peoples business, and this is causing serious issues that will spill over eventually.

I do not like what you are doing, so I am going to protest your beliefs, actions, morals, etc......


Get a life people.(the protesters, not necessarily anyone reading this comment)