(Confirmed!) We're hearing that police have joined the rally in WI after being asked to disperse th

reply to post by Intelearthling


The budget shortfalls were caused by Walker paying off the corporations who spent TAX money to get him elected.....It is a real new world order Neofascist Banking conspiracy....
The unionized workers are the good guys...yutz.

Originally posted by nivekronnoco
reply to post by Intelearthling

 

The budget shortfalls were caused by Walker paying off the corporations who spent TAX money to get him elected.....It is a real new world order Neofascist Banking conspiracy....
The unionized workers are the good guys...yutz.

oh cmon, stop this baloney! I just posted the smoking gun of Trumka calling for Global governance and NWO....

Trumka and European Socialists

www.impeachobamacampaign.com...

he calls for a "Robin Hood tax"

calling for a "global financial tax"

reply to post by Libertygal


That is a common misconception; our dues don't go to support Democrats solely. Speaking as a Teamster, we have supported other parties including Republicans. We can contribute to what is called DRIVE which stands for Democratic Republican Independent Voter Education. It is a strictly voluntary thing. I choose to participate because only by working through the political process can change happen. We have supported candidates from all parties; we support candidates based on their records for supporting our members. I don't have time now but I'll try to find the candidates from all parties supported here in Washington. It shouldn't be a surprise that we would support the candidate that has our members interests at heart. Our dues go to pay for our representation in bargaining and all the legal battles that are needed to enforce the contracts we operate under.

Originally posted by mayabong
I've heard so much from each side that I don't even know where I stand on this issue. I've learned alot about unions and what not that I didn't know before. Rand Paul said on Letterman that the average teacher in Wisconsin makes 89,000 a year if you add in the benifits. Not sure if thats true or not.

I think the problem goes alot deeper than the states can handle and lots of people are gonna be angry when the belt is tightened to fix budget problems. We live beyond our means and it has to come to an end one day and it probably won't be very smooth.

The argument that "well; if you include the benefits; they're making 89000 grand a year" is a rather disengenous argument. I work at a corporate office for a large national firm. My base salary breaks out to 32000k a year net; with benefits; it bounces to about 56000 a year; but the idea that you're always using the benefits provided (health; 401k; whatever else) is a little ridiculous. The only thing that really matters at the end of the day is what I'm getting in my paycheck; especially for those of us who don't take advantage of our health insurance.

What alot of people keep missing is this protest isn't about pay and benefits that part of the deal has already been agreed to the cuts were accepted by the union.

The protest part is about the collective bargaining agreement rights. Concessions have already been made and agreed to. Do we get it? This is about the Govenor trying to disable the union all together. Not about a budget shortfall

One major problem I have with public sector unions is the fact that the unions are contributing outrages amounts of money to the campaigns of democratic candidates and lawmakers. Why dont the unions give the extra money they receive from dues and give it back to the school districts in the form of books, paper, crayons, tissue, etc., so the teachers wouldn't have to spend some of their wages on these items and the children and parents wouldn't have to pimp candy and food and all the other forms of money generating schemes the school has our children performing throughout the year. Cant have that can we? In California our teachers send out lists to the parents for things needed in the classroom. Isn't our taxes supposed to pay for these things? We are expected to give, give, give while the unions just take, take, take. Sick of these union thugs. End public sector unions now.

Psy-ops to reinstate the picture of the "good cop" who is on "your side"... but he still stays a cop, who while on duty would bash your 14 year old sons/daughters head in or tase him over a joint or something similarly harmless.

The only good cop is the one who gives up his/her job. Dont fall for these diabolical dialectics, you re beeing played again.

Violence comes from hierarchic structures never forget that. its THEM creating the problems so they can still validate their existence


Greetings from Greece

Originally posted by Dynamitrios
Psy-ops to reinstate the picture of the "good cop" who is on "your side"... but he still stays a cop, who while on duty would bash your 14 year old sons/daughters head in or tase him over a joint or something similarly harmless.

The only good cop is the one who gives up his/her job. Dont fall for these diabolical dialectics, you re beeing played again.

Violence comes from hierarchic structures never forget that. its THEM creating the problems so they can still validate their existence


Greetings from Greece

i think thats overly simplified. they are human too.

[[[OFF TOPIC remark about avatar snipped]]]

Originally posted by boondock-saint
with the budget money run out
basically they have 2 options:

1) Accept the pay cuts

2) Lose their jobs when the legislature cuts spending
on education.

I have remained silent on this for the most part.
But I will have to say there are millions of Americans
out of work, and a lot of Americans only working
part time jobs that pay a lot less than what they were
making before. Those folks have already sacrificed.
And if the teachers and state workers can't sacrifice
like the rest of us peons, then I have not one iota
of sympathy for them or their cause.

These teachers should realize that they are just affected
by this economic depression as the rest of us. They can't
live in their own lil bubble of financial security while the rest
of America suffers. I'm sorry, but those folks ain't one single
bit better than I am nor the millions of Americans already
suffering.

Of course, you do realize that the WIO unions have already agreed to the cuts, and that thios protest is about the Senate stripping unions of the right to bargain over all non-wage issues....right? I thought that everyone who actually knows what's going on in WI already knows that the cuts issue was already a non-issue.

Of course, the GOP shills don't want the public to know WHY the union members and many other rank and file folks are protestinmg this vote. They want the average Joe Lunchpail to think that this protest is about the union workers' wages and benefits, but that's already been worked out. This protest is about the right to collective bargain - union busting.

Originally posted by NorEaster


Of course, you do realize that the WIO unions have already agreed to the cuts, and that thios protest is about the Senate stripping unions of the right to bargain over all non-wage issues....right? I thought that everyone who actually knows what's going on in WI already knows that the cuts issue was already a non-issue.

Of course, the GOP shills don't want the public to know WHY the union members and many other rank and file folks are protestinmg this vote. They want the average Joe Lunchpail to think that this protest is about the union workers' wages and benefits, but that's already been worked out. This protest is about the right to collective bargain - union busting.

Union members have been duped by their union bosses, and most especially AFL-CIO Boss Trumka who is working with European Socialists and is calling for Global Governance (yes thats NWO UN style) and "financial global tax"

Sad if true, the anarchists and communists are taking over,

reply to post by gallopinghordes

i don't know ....

I've been a dues paying member of a Union going on 15 years now. And gotta tell ya .... they've done jack & or for me & mine. I haven't had a raise in 10 years but yet the cost of living and my Union Dues still go up...? I've lost my pension, took a Huge pay cut, and lost a weeks vacation.... but the cost of living and my Union Dues still go up....?

I think you can work threw this so called political process till your blue in the face. In My Opinion ...
Unions have been made week to the point of impotence, and are no more now than the slave drivers keeping control over the workforce for TPTB....

my dues send committee people to Vegas so they can party with other committee people

Once you Take the Unions Right to Strike Away What other leverage do you have?


0

Originally posted by Squidmeister
One major problem I have with public sector unions is the fact that the unions are contributing outrages amounts of money to the campaigns of democratic candidates and lawmakers. Why dont the unions give the extra money they receive from dues and give it back to the school districts in the form of books, paper, crayons, tissue, etc., so the teachers wouldn't have to spend some of their wages on these items and the children and parents wouldn't have to pimp candy and food and all the other forms of money generating schemes the school has our children performing throughout the year. Cant have that can we? In California our teachers send out lists to the parents for things needed in the classroom. Isn't our taxes supposed to pay for these things? We are expected to give, give, give while the unions just take, take, take. Sick of these union thugs. End public sector unions now.

The unions contribute to the DNC for the exact same reason that the international corporations bury the GOP with billions in contributions and marketing muscle. The unions want to survive and only the DNC can keep the corporate GOP from outlawing unions. Union money pales in comparison to what international corporate interests have been pouring into GOP coffers, and that doesn't include the 527 groups that have sprung up since that Supreme Court decision changed the way politics is funded in this country.

If the corporate GOP succeeds in stripping wage workers ability to somehow protect themselves from the ignorance and short-sighted belligerence of Corporate America, then they'd best start learning how to run for office in India, because this country will be a killing ground for anyone that can be connected to corporate management or the conservative political machine they're built for themselves over the last 30 years. History has taught us, and the Middle East is reaffirming right now, that the majority will have its way, regardless of how it achieves it. Media messaging aside, the majority is not the Tea Party or the Conservative Movement. The majority consists of people who depend on government and/or organized labor to protect them from the few with the purse strings. When the protections are eliminated, they'll all eventually become Labor Democrats - provided that there's a political system that remains in place once the result of corporate business efficiency is taken to its logical conclusion, of course. In fact, if it remains peaceful and politically focused, then it'll be the only time in human history when such a battle remained that way.

Social programs and workers' rights laws weren't created to protect the hundreds of millions of Americans that are kept safer and more secure as a result of those laws and programs, they were created to protect the myopic corporate money-grubbers from succeeding in destroying this entire society by igniting an insurrection with their hubris and greed. The only reason that the US survived the 30s was due to FDR's realization that revolution was inevitable if not for the steps taken to ease the fear and resentment of the tens of millions who took the hit during the Depression. That model has allowed the US to survive again and again, and in spite of what the corporate GOP has tried to accomplish to destroy all safety nets designed to maintain the fabric of society in times of struggle.

The private sector has become a tough environment for those employed to deal with the jobless - frustrated applicants and the recently dismissed - and somewhat dangerous in some situations. The larger open-access posting areas on the Internet feature thinly-veiled death threats against the representatives of many of these corporations. If the average American begins to honestly believe that the same corporations that have been reporting record profits while killing jobs and the American economy have no concern for their future, then the employees that can be accessed will be the first to pay for that dismissal. After all, the safety net's always existed for the idiots who don't think they need it - the economically fortunate who are naively vulnerable to the last-gasp violence of those who find themselves much less fortunate. Someone has to protect those imbeciles from their own inability to see a gathering threat. All the cops can do is clean up the mess and file the paperwork.

Personally, I think the idea of unions is out-dated. On the other hand, that would leave the gov. in charge and that doesn't sound very promising either.

What a trend these days. Isn't it sad that people can't see the entire picture of what is going on?

Sorry folks, it isn't as cut and dry as Unions vs. Republicans or anything of the sort.
Why don't people focus on why there is no more money? Is it because of unions or is it because of frivolous spending of the government?

I think if Walker and the rest of the politicians in Wis. stopped and took some massive pay cuts it would remedy the situation a bit more.

The politicians are supposed to represent the people but these days I only see them representing themselves, banks and corporations. If they wanted to reflect and represent the people of the USA, they would take massive pay cuts and live like the rest of us. The governor of Wisconsin makes $144,423 (pdf)a year (not including all of the bells and whistles of being at the top by getting free stuff). The top teachers average salary in Wis. are $46,390 a year.

This problem isn't as easy as what many are making it out to be. Prices of everything are going up - why complain about certain entities such as unions if the government is the responsible party that created the budget shortfalls in the first place? Doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Union members have been duped by their union bosses, and most especially AFL-CIO Boss Trumka who is working with European Socialists and is calling for Global Governance (yes thats NWO UN style) and "financial global tax"

You fix what's necessary, you don't throw it away. Hell, if the best way to address corruption was to eliminate the system that's become corrupt, the GOP would have been outlawed a long time ago. Wall Street would be a parking lot.

Watch them bring in the military to clean this up. For the most part we were proud of the egyptians for standing up against corruption...lets see what happens when it's in our backyard.

reply to post by ugie1028

Unfortunately, the Democrats will win back the majority in 2012. Even though reducing union influence is a good thing, the Republicans chose the wrong time to tackle the issue. Out of all the damn things to do, attacking the unions at this point is stupid. Its a very costly strategic move, and it will cost them in 2012. 2010 elections are starting to look like a hiccup.

Originally posted by Hr2burn
Watch them bring in the military to clean this up. For the most part we were proud of the egyptians for standing up against corruption...lets see what happens when it's in our backyard.

Apparently some in the US want to use "live ammunition" against the WI protesters like was used against the Egyptians in their quest for freedom.

www.rawstory.com...

I wonder how many ATS anti union posters think this is a reasonable solution?