Are 'Aliens' Dinosaurs & Survivers of an Earthly Cataclysm Returning Home?

Originally posted by Pimander

Originally posted by Slipdig1
By the way by not having any proof whatso ever makes this theory scientifically irrelevant, not viable. When you have proof it will be taken more seriously.

You clearly have no idea about science. If we had proof, it wouldn't be a theory, it would be a fact.

A theory is viable if it is scientifically possible - which this theory is. The whole point of a theory is it can be tested scientifically - which this can.

The theory remains viable until proven or proven to be wrong. It may need modifying or dispensing with if it does not fit the evidence. Absence of evidence is never evidence of absence to a real scientist.

As you have no evidence on way or the other your statement is completely unscientific.

edit on 26/2/11 by Pimander because: (no reason given)

although i think i understand why you felt the need to elaborate on the scientific method and am glad you did, couldn't it be that some terminology isn't quite correct?

based on Popper's falsification principle, and very casually formulated, the process I follow (I'm a sociologist).

- i read a lot of stuff, i try to keep my eyes open when dealing with reality, i discuss, in other words, i take in a lot of stimuli that eventually starts to shape a narrative. an idea about something or a process hat is plausible, possible,..

- i reformulate the narrative into a format that allows for proper treatment ;-) so basically i cook up a hypothesis, containing statements about subjects and its relations.

- next i do the Popper trick: i invert the hypothesis, so basically now i'm making opposite statements. The idea behind the trick is that it is not possible to know for sure something is "true" unless one can observe all instances of that something. Proving something "false" takes just one observation.

- i cook up a method to gather data from reality and use that data hoping there are observations that allow me to say my opposite statement is false. This is usually referred to as the experiment.

- only if the results of this experiment allow me to say that my hypothesis holds - for that given moment - because it's backed by experiment, I can call my narrative a theory.

what's lacking in this little dino-story here is experiment, for starters
i for one do doubt whether the first phase was done properly. although i strongly advice in creative thinking, only imagination usually doesn't add to good theories.

the problem with this is this shows a female breastfeeding an infant. That's not something a reptile could do, they don't have breasts. If this is an alien/reptilian/dinosauroid, it is a hybrid. It seems doubtful a human and a reptilian could produce viable offspring, so the individual and her baby depicted would be the product of some gene splicing technology. Perhaps they wanted to rule over humans with these hybrids and carry out these royal alien genes further down to future royal generations. Who knows Queen Elizabeth may have a tiny amount of reptilian in her DNA

reply to post by Mercurio


you assume that because todays reptiles can't lactate that the genetic makeup of the intelligent species couldn't. Intelligence may not be the only difference between the ones that got out of the way and the ones that were incinerated.

CHECK OUT THIS REENACTMENT... I STILL HAVE MY DINOSAUCERS RING!!!! I am a scout ^_^ I was the token black dude with glasses

Cool to see a thread on this subject as i have thought about this many times, While researching the reptillian threads,

Never posted a thread about it as it was just my thoughts with no research, If we evolved from monkeys or cavemen, Then this is more than possible, In my opinion anyway

Thumbs up

Originally posted by ResearchMan
I love this thread!
(snip)
This post should go on a page for ATS for BEST THREADS EVER! May help in gaining some more traffic and members.

Thank you so much for the praise... I must admit I had considered never posting on anything related to my own field of research. Maybe I will do it more in future. Not so sure about this being among the 'best threads ever'. Maybe a few charts like most hits, best quality aliens (voted for by mods and admin maybe) and so on might be a good idea.

Originally posted by ExCloud
A awesome topic one that brought me to ATS originally. I do enjoy it and hope to hear more debate on it. It is completely possible in theory that this could have happened.

I agree that this is a fascinating topic. How can anyone who has ever really wondered about life before humans not think so?

As for more debate on this, I think I am happy to post on here to debate the hypothesis. I will write a part two to present some of the scientific evidence that I am collecting. In fact I might need a mod to help me change the thread title...

Thanks again to everyone for your help on this.

the Aliens altered us and them strictly for raw materials all life in the universe is related

What if it wasn't even an asteroid or a freaking volcano that was the ELE? HUH? What if it was an atomic warhead or several atomic/nuclear warheads. People who've said there is no evidence of nuclear radiation in places there shouldn't be, well what are ya living under a rock? Or just got rocks in your head?
Nuclear Events In Ancient India?

Rajasthan: Evidence of Ancient Atomic Explosion


Radiation still so intense, the area is highly dangerous.



A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built. For some time it has been established that there is a very high rate of birth defects and cancer in the area under construction. The levels of radiation there have registered so high on investigators' gauges that the Indian government has now cordoned off the region.

Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945.

How many times do you think this has happened? I beleive many, many times, probably countless times not just here on Earth, but the rest of all other civilizations who have developed in our universe. You also may want to read the Vedas and the mahatbrata (sp?) There is talk of flying vessels AND Atomic Bombs! ( yes I have done my homework)! Besides radiation from 65 mill years ago well it would surely be totally gone by now, and if you ask well why were there dinosaur bones and not humanoid dinosaur bones found, simply like he stated they got outta dodge and fast! Everybody who didn't was reduced to ash. DUH!
So to simply say it is an ABSOLUTE impossibility, the OP's ideas, is like saying because you can't see the moon during a cloudy night that it mustn't exist.
Care to comment, know-it-alls?
Hmmmmmm?
Also Carbon dating is far from perfect, in fact scientists now beleive 9 out of ten times it is highly unreliable!

If there was a race of space explorers before us we would find evidence in orbit at our la grange points. All other space objects would eventually fall back to earth, but objects in the grange points would be there basically for eternity and the environment of space would preserve them indefinately as far as I know. If we need evidence we should look there.

reply to post by Volund


Good idea, but you're anthropomorphising somewhat... Just because we build inefficient rockets and space-exploration vehicles/ satellites that can't be recovered and end up floating around for aeons, doesn't mean that our predecessors did...

And besides, haven't you heard about the moon cities?


Pimander - long time no speak; hope you're well. This thread offers a basis for some excellent theories and a 'grounded perspective' regarding those mysteries currently undiscovered from the ages past. The solar system was technologically developed imho, a long, long time ago, and we are currently only able to observe the part-visible remnants of a vast, advanced (and now lost) civilisation. Perhaps the descendants of our original solar overlords are returning? Or maybe they never left; instead, simply shifting laterally in space-time so as to remain undiscovered until a time that suits their purposes.

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment


Nothing to do with efficiency. If earth had space travellers the grange points would most likely be were we find the best artifacts since they would be in orbit forever and well preserved. The chance of a collision is so incredibly minute for such small, assuming they would be small, it is laughable. These objects would be better preserved than objects on the moon, earth, or mars et c. Great palce for space stations as the orbit in a grange point never deteriorates.

Originally posted by WingedBull
Except a lot has changed about our understanding of dinosaurs since Dale Russell's "dinosauroid thought experiment". It is accepted that theropods dinosaurs (such as troodon) do have highly intelligent descendants living today, birds. This is based on evidence; namely comparisons of fossils to bird anatomy. However, Russell's dinosauroid is based on just pure conjecture. Based on what we know about the evolution of dinosaurs and birds, there is no reason to assume troodon would evolve a humanoid shape.

Also, it is now accepted that theropods were feathered. Reptilians, however, are not reported having feathers. Nor are they reported with beaks.

Now, if bird-like aliens start cropping up, then we might have a problem...

edit on 21-2-2011 by WingedBull because: (no reason given)

It was an assumption that troodon evolved into intelligent beings, based only on the brain-to-body size ratio or encephalization quotient, which many people are skeptical of, and we also don't have a brain to measure.

Herbivores like the Iguanodonts had more human-like hands AND were bipedal. Plus they NEEDED to evolve intelligence in order to outwit predators. Forget about troodon and remember that there are an extremely large number of dinosaur species out there.

Could be? Yes.
Will we ever know? Probably not.
It's fun to conteplate these things yes?

Originally posted by Pimander

Originally posted by TrueBrit

Originally posted by Pimander

Could a Humanoid Dinosaur Survive The Mass Extinction?

What if we assume our hypothetical Anthroposaurus did exist. If the species were around for a little longer than modern humans, maybe they developed technology? After 65 million years it is highly unlikely that it would be recognisable, even if anything of it remained.

I cannot agree with you on this point. We find fossils because animals died and did not move, allowing deposits of sandstone and limestone and so on, to cover them and preserve them. Now bare in mind that these are mere mortal creatures, flesh and blood , just like mankind , and thier bones and even the markers of thier skin, survive even to this day, buried in obscure landscapes all over the world, waiting to be dug up. If an anthropomorphised dinosaur humanoid race had existed to the point where they had technology of any sort whatsoever, there would be evidence of this somewhere in archaeological record, since technological constructs are invariably more durable than the flesh of thier creators.

Originally posted by DragonFire1024
The proof is the fossil record we do have from that period. So it would also be likely that we would find (or have already and assuming my last statement, a cover-up) fossils of these bipeds.

Sorry guys, but you are wrong on this. Humans dispose of their bodies without allowing for fossilisation. So could dinosauroids.

In 65 million years what would there be of modern humans? Not a lot. There is practically no geological processes happening to human remains that will lead to them becoming fossilised. If there are examples they are extremely rare and would be incredibly rare in 65million years and probably not be discovered. Most fossilisation occurs in shallow water. That is exactly where human(oid) bodies are NOT disposed of.

As for evidence of the civilisation like archaeological remains such as technology or buildings - we are talking 65million years, not 6,500 (the older Egyptian). In 650,000 years there would be maybe a traces (and I mean traces) of stone materials which would be subject to erosion like everything else on Earth. 6.5 million years? Even less. Ten times that? There would be no corrodible metals or fibres. Most plastics would have been consumed by bacteria. Probably very few fossils as I said.

To repeat my statement earlier we are talking at least 10,000 times as long ago as First Dynasty ancient Egypt. The length of time since ancient Egypt ten thousand times.

edit on 23/2/11 by Pimander because: (no reason given)

edit on 23/2/11 by Pimander because: typo

agreed 65 million years would be long enough for all traces of our civilization to vanish.
This documentary called Life After People is about what would happen if humans stopped existing and how long it would take for evidence of our civilization to crumble and collapse and disappear into new landscapes.

reply to post by Volund


No, it really is relevant to talk about efficiency of design.

Dropping boosters and various stages/ losing satellites is a human trick at this moment in time. We don't know if 'they' would have started the design process from the same principles and hence they might have come up with much more efficient systems that didn't "lose bits" during operation.

I'm developing a thread regarding such matters, and will invite you to review it once completed.

Believe me, I do see your point, and it is a good one; however, we're talking of a hypothetical race who may or may not think like we do. To presume they thought and designed stuff like we do is to anthropomorphise.

Does anyone in this topic have evidence of these time-traveling bipedal dinosaurs?

reply to post by Turiddu


Um, it's a discussion, not a thesis.

2nd.

reply to post by Pimander


I think that your hypothesis is viable. Obviously, you are not the first to think of it. Apparently some folks at NASA are thinking on similar lines.

www.overcomingbias.com...

The best chance of finding fossil evidence would probably be on the moon, not on earth. As you rightly point out, sixty five million years would be enough time to corrode all metals. Repeated ice ages, happening at regular intervals of say 100,000 years would destroy all structural evidence on earth.

One piece of evidence against the hypothesis might be the relatively untouched fossil fuel deposits - that have obviously been left for us humans to harvest. Then again a dinosaur civilization may have taken the Tesla approach by leveraging electricity and bypassed fossil fuels altogether. The Oklo mines in Gabon Africa would suggest that someone or something harnessed nuclear fission long before us.

Lastly, there is the ongoing debate at to whether the Chicxulub meteor caused the KT extinction. According to Gerta Keller from Princeton, the impact predates the extinction by 300,000 years.

geoweb.princeton.edu...

This brings up an interesting point - that the meteor may not have been the cause of the extinction but rather the precondition for it. Specifically, the meteor biologically opened up the opportunity for an intelligent dinosaur to evolve, much in the same way that our ice age led humans to develop agriculture. The subsequent extinction may have been caused by the success of a particular intelligent species at the expense of the others. Also, the Iridium layer coating the earth at the KT boundary might suggest a large scale nuclear war.

Aliens very well could be the survivors of this calamity. Much like the movie - Planet of the Apes - come back to their home planet only to find it inhabited by someone else.

I use to purpose the same idea to my friends back in highschool. I use to think of a lot of crazy ideas and I loved to share them to see what people thought. I believed to be highly possible that there was some sort of dinosaur humanoid still living amongst us underground. Maybe they live on the Moon in underground bases and visit the earth to get elements in which they need to survive. Anyways it is a very interesting theory and anything can be possible.

Originally posted by Pimander

Is it Possible That Dinosaurs Evolved into Humanoids?

I always thought Dinosaurs had the potential to evolve, to what extent is up for debate as only mother nature will ever know that answer. But there is no question the Valasal Raptor evolved into one magnificent animal, Just its ability to hunt in packs is a feat in its own, but apparently they could communicate and stratagise much like Wolves do today, which to most doesn't seem like anything special or amazing since so many animals today replicate similar behaviours, but when you take into consideration, their brain capacity, its simply astounding to think how they could differ so much from their surrounding environment.

However Dinosaurs had 150 million years to develop and evolve, and for one reason or another (actually the reason is painfully obvious) their evolution process was very minimal to say the least, apart from inbreeding and changing ones appearance. Compared to the human evolution process (depending where you want to start) from Australopithecus our furthest known ancestor, 5 million years ago, or from the missing link, 2 million years ago, or from our closest known ancestor the Neanderthal, 150 thousand years ago. Our evolution into what we are today, what man looks like today, happened it seems in a blink of a eye.

The fact is, Humans didn't just evolve over night, genetics doesn't work like that, it has never worked like that. It took billions of years for single cell organisms to evolve into a cell with a nucleus. If you can understand that, you can understand structural genetics is a long and grueling process (with many mistakes in between). Also a interesting note, if we evolved from Neanderthals how come they had 48 Chromosomes and we have 46? Thats a awful lot of DNA missing from our closest relative that we apparently evolved from. It leads me to believe human evolution had some sort of intervention between the missing link (2million years ago) and Neanderthals (150 thousand years ago). As the grandfather of DNA Mr. Francis Crick said

An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many of the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going.

the chance that a living organism would emerge from a 'prebiotic soup' is about as likely 'as a tornado sweeping through a junkyard and assembling a Boeing 747 from the materials therein.'

The last quote is actually from a colleague of Mr. Crick, British astronomer Fred Hoyle, but based upon the same subjected question relayed from one another. Mr Crick mapped out the human DNA so I have no doubt in my mind he has some tangible undertsanding of what he is talking about when it comes to evolution and it makes sense. I was confused throughout highschool when they taught us the evolutionary process that life on Earth took. If everything else took billions of years to evolve, how come intelligent life took only 150 thousand some years to manifest itself into what it is today, when its alot more complicated then a few single cell organisms? Unless some sort of intelligent extraterrestrial intervention took place?

I truly believe we were visited in our distant past, and our God is actually extraterrestrial in nature. I think we were genetically engineered for whatever reason (Slaves, workers, test subjects) and left behind as a foot print civilisation of what once was something out of this world. Our civilisation at this point in time has advanced so much to the point we are capable of manipulating our own DNA, we can change ones appearance while the fetus is still developing, we can clone ourselves, thats very impressive for a species thats only been in existence for about 150 thousand years. Especially when you take into account most of the knowledge accumulated has transpired in the past hundred years.

DNA is a very intriguing subject, a small change in chromosome pairings can completely alter a subject... even a Dinosaur. With a little more time and research on understanding how a species brain works/develops, I think one day we will be able to intervene and genetically manipulate a species with far greater potential then what mother nature ever produced. We are close to that type of understanding now.

Really, the possibilities are endless, we havn't even come close to reaching our own potential, yet we can re-create ourselves. We're on the verge of terraforming another planet, WE WILL genetically re-create a whole 'nother world. In some sense we are already Aliens or on the verge of becoming one. So its not out of this world to think this process hasn't already happened many many times over in other parts of the Universe with a far more advanced species acting like God. We're on the verge of becoming another worlds God, Mars can be our Eden.

edit on 7-4-2011 by Praafit because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Charizard


yeah i totally agree with you and i was going to say satellites up until i remembered that their orbits degrade over time, so maybe if we can get to the moon and look there, we might find this kind of evidence.