Retired USAF pilot Col. Guy S. Razer says 9/11 was 'inside job' perpetrated by US government

Originally posted by RustyShakleford92
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

 

Good find. Thanks for the read.

Can I ask a question though. The thing I don't understand about this demolition conspiracy theory is.... why is it so important to make the buildings fall? I mean, 4 hijacked planes, people killed.... HELL one plane to the Pentagon is enough to start a war.

What is the significance of complicating the situation and trying to make the buildings fall? The government could care less about public support, if indeed, a terrorist organization just pummeled a plane into the Pentagon alone.

There is always someone "proving" the fact that the buildings could have fell, and then someone right next to him able to "prove" that it is impossible under the set circumstances.

To answer this question for the last time here...the buildings were falling APART!!! The were rotting from "galvanic decompostion", it is where the aluminum outer skin sandwiched between the steel beams were corroding rapidly due to electrolosis. Being near salt water and having electricity run through the building was like an anode and cathode. A construction company was brought in back in the late 80's, if I remember correctly, and they said the buildings WOULD NOT STAND MORE THAN 20 MORE YEARS. It would have cost in the area of $5.8 BILLION dollars to fix them both. OR just wait till you can use them in a false flag attack to fulfill an agenda and demo them then. Easy enough to understand is it not?

Originally posted by Kevincredible
the pentagon was hit to destroy the files of Rumsfelds missing trillions of dollars and building 7 was demolished to destroy the back up files.

Care to share your evidence that the damaged area of the Pentagon had anything to do with " files of Rumsfelds missing trillions " ?

Which were nothing to do with Rumsfeld anyway as those figures were being bandied about before he took office.

It is very encouraging to note that most of the posts on this thread are supportive of the theory that various factions of the government were involoved in 9-11.

Although I am aware that there are gov't programs which allow multiple accounts to be created virtually, complete with bio's, photos and seperate IP numbers and manned by a small number of agents, and that these programs are active on ATS.

However I believe that the believers of the OS on this thread are real people.

So I feel that there is hope for them.

I will add this to the mix though...

Just look around you. Go outside and look around at your city. Go catch a flight. Get pulled over. See how your life has been affected. Think about the last ten years and what has happened on a geopolitical scale with the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Think about the events leading up to the war. Think about the Patriot Act. Think about the continued police state raising up around us AS WE SPEAK. Just go and read the news.

Go back and read the various Conspiracy theories of the past. Look around and use actual news sources to back up the fact that we are living in the world that those conspiracy theorists were describing.

I beg you to stop looking for irrefutable proof as your measuring stick of truth. These operations are designed so that obtaining that is impossible.

In doing so, you will understand that deduction and critical thinking are much more important.

Tell me what you think about OPERATION NORTHWOODS? Do you think it was a hoax?

reply to post by Game_Over


Yeah I hear ya in the UK, London has a population of 6 million and 1 million CCTV cameras. But too many poeple are like this www.youtube.com...

reply to post by daddio


It is actually easy to believe. It is NOT easy to believe that the government strapped explosives in them to make them come down. I'm not disagreeing with you, just wanting other sides of the opinion.

Meh, I've noticed a theme with all these ex military/govt etc people saying 911 was an inside job... its always based on their "research". None of them actually were privy to anything that you or I don't know, thus I fail to see how them thinking 911 is an inside job or aliens are real or w/e else is such a "big story". Just cause they worked for the military doesn't make them any smarter than anyone else or their opinion any more valid if they arrived at it the same way everyone else did. Ex military people are just people too you know, they can be paranoid, suspicious, inquisitive etc just like anyone else. It annoys me so much when people say "o well this ex military guy believes in it thus it must be true", uh no.

Keep in my mind I'm not even saying I disagree with him, cause really 911 to me is certainly at the minimum worthy of doubts and questions, but I'm just saying I fail to see how this is always news when they are coming to these conclusions just like everyone else by watchin 911 videos/reading websites etc, not cause they are privy to anything we don't know... THAT would be news worthy.

Originally posted by roboe
reply to post by GoldenFleece

 

Two things.

1) Sheri Baxter had an emphasis on taking off and landing, neither of which Hani Hanjour was required to do. And if you look at the FDR data (especially during the 330 degree turn), his lack of piloting skills are showing.

Don't delude yourself with such silly notions about only needing to know take-offs and landings:

"The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane," says O'Brien. "You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe." [NATCA]

But just as the plane seemed to be on a suicide mission into the White House, the unidentified pilot [Hanjour] executed a pivot so tight that it reminded observers of a fighter jet maneuver. The plane circled 270 degrees to the right to approach the Pentagon from the west, whereupon Flight 77 fell below radar level, vanishing from controllers' screens, the sources said.

Aviation sources said the plane was flown with extraordinary skill, making it highly likely that a trained pilot was at the helm, possibly one of the hijackers. Someone even knew how to turn off the transponder, a move that is considerably less than obvious. [Washington Post]

Originally posted by roboe
2) The BBC article was from the days immediately following 9/11/01, when there was still some confusion over the identity of the hijackers. IIRC FBI had matched the wrong name to the photo of one or two of the hijackers, and unfortunately one of those names belonged to an actual commercial pilot. If you go to the original article now, the BBC has added a note stating that the article was written without the knowledge of that error. It's worth noting that several of the hijackers were using multiple variations of their names.

Another ridiculous notion. There was NEVER any confusion, mix-up or variation of names. EVERY purported "hijacker" was listed with his photo, age, nationality and occupation, which is too much precise and matching information for a "mix-up" or "variation" of names excuse. In that article, FBI Director Mueller even admits the "hijackers" identities are in doubt:

FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged on Thursday that the identity of several of the suicide hijackers is in doubt.

But guess what? NOTHING was ever updated, revised or changed, by the FBI or anyone else.

The BBC took so much heat from the U.S. government for that article that they had to add 3 words: "A man called..."

If you actually believe that adding an "update" and three words clears up the identity of 6 or 7 hijackers, then I've got some weapons of mass destruction to sell you.

I'm beginning to see the military as a player in helping to bring truth into this equation. Retired military men will still carry with them credibility, while at the same time voice their opinions without fear of retribution. It's obvious the entire media complex has been bought. How else could you silence Bill Maher or Dennis Miller or Michael Savage. These are people that certainly know something's wrong with the OS, yet stay as far away from the issue as they can. Why? Because if they push it, the plug will be pulled. Why else would these guys who ordinarily would salivate over a story as juicy as this, twiddle their thumbs and blame it on 'Muslim Terrorists'.' They know damn well something stinks, but the cowards want to keep their jobs

reply to post by thedman


well then luckily I said "from what I understand" and not "What I am going to say is absolute fact because I am the most expert expert."

just trying to throw some info out there I had read, but thanks for letting us know the exact proportions!

Originally posted by Alfie1
And from another article in The Independent" Larry Silverstein is accused by Swiss Re of deliberately under-insuring the Towers to save costs :-

www.independent.co.uk...

How does that fit in with an insurance scam in the making ?

4 figurehead names that you should remember about 9/11

Larry Silverstein, Zionist
Rupert Murdoch, Zionist
Benjamin Netanyahu, Zionist
Dick Cheney, Zionist

And no accident Ariel Sharon is in a coma.

This whole thing is playing out like a witch hunt.

Incorrect facts
Innuendo
Speculation


When are they going to get real hard facts of a conspiracy? Youtube doesn't count.

Originally posted by dillweed
I'm beginning to see the military as a player in helping to bring truth into this equation. Retired military men will still carry with them credibility, while at the same time voice their opinions without fear of retribution.

Yeah, but the problem is that these officers weren't running the show on 9/11 and now it's too late, except for a historical footnote, a la Operation Northwoods. There will always be a chain of command and this is where it led:

9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon
By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 2, 2006

Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public rather than a reflection of the fog of events on that day, according to sources involved in the debate.

Suspicion of wrongdoing ran so deep that the 10-member commission, in a secret meeting at the end of its tenure in summer 2004, debated referring the matter to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, according to several commission sources.

www.washingtonpost.com...

BTW, do you think anything ever got referred to DoJ?

With all the great work the OP has done, and the terrific links that OP and other posters have provided.
I am stunned at all the of evidence that we have, that points to the total complacency of the US government et.al. surrounding the events of 9/11. MIHOP

Which has lead me to: www.amics21.com...
Amecs21, has tons of specs on the aircraft, which should intrigue the Weedman. I was more interested in the scale of both buildings and aircrafts. A question to keep in mind when viewing this website, was it really flight 175, a boeing 767-200 or 300?
More great stuff to consider, www.questionsquestions.net...
Peace

reply to post by gr82m8okdok


Why war? Easy. There is no profit in peace.

The U.S. can win any war it enters- TODAY- if so desired, but it does not want victory, but perpetual war. One in which not only profits continue, but one that allows the American people to WILLINGLY hand over it's God Given freedoms (protected by the Constitution) to their masters.

Know the truth: www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Shadow Herder


Please do catalog my IP. Keep track of me. Become just like the idiots that have harassed friends of mine who survived the attack on the Pentagon. Im no longer active duty, I do not have to sit around and play nice like they do.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


You see what you did there??

Just repeating, again, the same crap that any actual pilot (who isn't trying to support the so-called "truth" movement, and their groups....in order to profit off of "conspiracy" believers' gullibility) will tell you is baloney.

And, you believe that hogwash without any logical examination or question???

I have watched the video animation that was produced from actual Flight Data Recorder information....there was NOTHING about the turn....the approximately 330-degree turn....It did NOT require any sort of "extraordinary" skill at all!! Most of the turn was made at a 30-degree angle of bank. THAT is completely normal, and something you experience on every commercial flight you ride on as a passenger. The airplane was descending, with thrust levers in the flight idle position (pulled aft, to the stops)....so, essentially gliding at idle power. That is how all airplanes normally descend. The descending turn is something even beginning student pilots learn! It's the basis of learning how to fly a traffic pattern, to land the airplane!

The only thing that might have made that Controller comment on it, in that way, was because in his experience, he did not see commercial passenger jets at THOSE SPEEDS at altitudes below 10,000 feet! He was accustomed to the "normal" speed limit that is imposed by regulation (the only reason) of 250 knots. American 77 was indicating a speed of about 300 to 310 knots for most of the turn. Again, perfectly normal and it happens that way, in every descent at higher altitudes....300 knots is very average speed for descent profiles.

It is that simple, but you types just can't comprehend it has nothing at all to do with your "claims" or "argument".

You, and the rest of the "Truth" movement types, use this example (amongst many, many others) with a complete lack of understanding about it. It is seen throughout the "truth" misadventure ---- horrible mis-use of phrases and comments in our of context fashion, from pure ignorance. Yet, repeated like some sort of religious mantra.....

.....what is more, there can no other explanation for these unwarranted "beliefs", that are based on conjecture, misinformation and utter folly, than to ascribe a religion comparison. NO matter the evidence to the contrary (as is the case for those "true believers" in a magical bearded man in the sky), 9/11 "truthers" let every rational explanation pass over their heads, or in one ear, out the other, in favor of the most obtuse, convoluted crackpot ideas instead.

These people WANT the "inside job" nonsense to be true!!! They MUST have it be true, despite any and all evidence that points elsewhere...because they are so emotionally devoted to it. Which is sad, really --- to live your life in the delusion of a major event like this, perpetrated on a nation's own citizens?? Come back down to Earth, to reality.

But, just as the devout will "pray" daily, to no avail....they still have that "faith", even though nothing ever happens....the fact that NOTHING happens when they "pray" doesn't discourage them, they keep doing it. Just as the devout "truters" keep looping back to repeat the same misinformation, over and over, and nothing "new" ever comes out. What do some say about repeating the same thing over and over, and expecting different results?

This OP is from 2007!!! AND...this colonel? Read about HOW he came up with his ideas, and decided to be an outspoken "truther"! Not because he has ANY insider knowledge. He has ZERO actual, personal information about this non-existent "conspiracy".....all he did is what happened to ALL "truthers"...he fell for the idiotic "9/11 conspiracy" websites and crap that infests the Internet. Instead of examining the claims rationally, he let his reason be steered by outlandish speculations and miscreant views based on completely unconnected and baseless accusations. ALL of this "truther" nonsense is terribly irrational....and is obviously so, when you take time to look, very honestly and logically at it, absent the emotional desire to "believe" (first) in the "evil" government. Which, I hasten to point out, WAS evil on different levels (I.E. Dick Cheney, etc) but in terms of being able to have "pulled this off"??? One word to dispel that myth: "KATRINA"

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Good stuff. Though I think old mother hubbard and my cat are the only living creatures on earth that still believe the official story of 9/11. And thats exactly what it is - a 'story' because theres certainly nothing to back up and PLENTY to prove its a lie.

reply to post by InertiaZero


Can any thing of this magnitude ever be solved? Never enough evidence to try anyone in a court with appropriate jurisdiction. If the NY Attorney General hadn't failed miserably in the search for justice, maybe some people could be in jail by now. The forensic evidence was trucked away and sold for scrap. I think it is now in most peoples' value and belief systems that the OS was BS and that something else occurred, with all probability.

I remember when Jack Ruby shot Oswald when I was a young child and knew then that the whole thing was staged. Did anybody ever go to jail or find out with certainty, who killed JFK? Same deal here only worse.

reply to post by Nonchalant


Fine, start posting your "proof" one piece at a time so we can discuss it. And school you in reality.

Some things to consider about 9-11...

1. Coincidentally, there was a joint civilian/military exercise going on the morning of 9-11. This exercise scenario involved *hijacked planes,* and therefore, when real-world message traffic began to arrive about plane hijackings, military and civilian tower (and defense) personnel found it difficult to decipher between what was real and what was exercise-related information.

2. The temperature required to melt or weaken steel is higher than anything generated by burning jet fuel or office furnishings. No steel building in the history of mankind has ever previously collapsed due to fire. The steel frames remain behind after everything else has burned away. The structural damage caused by mostly *aluminum* aircraft was not enough to cause the collapse of the buildings.

3. WTC 7, which had no aircraft impact and very little, if any, structural damage caused by falling debris collapsed into its own footprint. This was the building where an emergency HQ had been set up; the HQ was ordered to evacuate hours before the collapse. Building personnel were ordered to evacuate as well. The owner of the building admitted in a video interview that the building was ordered "pulled," -demolition lingo used to order destruction.

4. 2.3 trillion dollars of military funding was unaccounted for, according to SECDEF Donald Rumsfeld in a September 10th, 2001 press conference/statement, televised. The people and the databases and the physical files were located *precisely* where the Pentagon impact occurred. To date, the OS has not explained why there was a lack of aircraft debris at the Pentagon impact site. Jet fuel does not get hot enough to vaporize so much metal upon impact. While there were several scattered pieces of aircraft wreckage, there was not nearly enough to account for a jet liner impact. Further, there was a lack of *human* remains from the alledged airliner impact.

Just those four items are enough to raise eyebrows. When in doubt, follow the money trail. When anything bad happens, it's important to ask, "Who would benefit?" And, for those of you who have been asking, "Why would our government do this kind of thing?"

Three quick examples come to mind.

First, the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Years later, the government has all but admitted that it was a fabricated (at least exaggerated) event to justify the Vietnam War. If memory serves, the wife of the President (at the time), she and/or her family had a lot of stock in the company that made government Hueys. There are surely more reasons, but making hundreds of millions (if not more) on helicopter sales would add to the family coffers.

Second, the spraying of American cities. Yes, our government sprayed toxic agents over major population centers from the 1950s onward. FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) documents confirm this. They did it for a variety of reasons, mainly to establish/verify the effectiveness of certain agents/toxins. MKULTRA documents via FOIA also prove that the CIA drugged unsuspecting citizens with '___' and secretly recorded their "trips." It is therefore proven that our government has used us as test subjects. If they are/were willing to do that, I would put very little past them. At best, their track record is questionable.

Third, Operation Northwoods. In the 1960s, government planners proposed staging a shot-down of an American plane in the waters off the coast of Cuba, even detailing how a plane would take off with one set of faked tail numbers, land in a classified location, have another set of tail numbers painted on. And, how a US Navy ship would cast wreckage into the water (with the original tail numbers clearly visible) and then "recover" the wreckage as proof of the shoot-down. Further, the CIA would stage terrorist attacks in Florida, particularly in the Miami area, to further prod the public for outcry for retaliation. While JFK refused to enact Operation Northwoods, it is startlingly CLEAR as to the mindset of planners of clandestine operations. And this was a long, long time ago. Imagine how clever and imaginative they must be now.

So, there are some coincidences about 9-11, some anomalies to think about (items 1-4). And then we have at least three examples that try to help illuminate the "Why" aspect. Why? 1) to start a war, 2) test things for war, and 3) start a war.

Someone once said that "coincidence is a glimpse into a pattern otherwise hidden." A lot of people are getting peeks into that pattern, and a lot of people are coming forward to support the effort to find out what really happened. That is why prominent members of the military are going ON RECORD about their feelings about 9-11. "Debunkers" attack people when the ideas of those people withstand assault. They call them "conspiracy theorists" as if that label alone de-legitmatizes everything they've presented. That is why it is important for people with powerful, patriotic backgrounds to come forward like the Colonel this post was about. It is to prove that it's not a bunch of raving, rabid crack-pots spouting conspiracy theories. Legitimate people with proven service to this country are waking up and stepping up and coming out.

One last thought, IMHO, the true role of "debunker" in the 9-11 issue are who most people call "conspiracy theorist." Truthers, as they're called, are really DEBUNKING the false, official story. People traditionally called "debunkers" are really "BELIEVERS." --Believers in the OS. That or people just spreading mis/disinformation, or people who get off on arguing for the sake of it.

Just as the Gulf of Tonkin, MKULTRA and Operation Northwoods came out into the light, one day we might see the truth of 9-11 emerge from the dark realm of cock-roaches and believers