A look inside the mind of erad3 (most-likely Jared Loughner)

reply to post by TexasChem


Society is broken, Plain and simple.

Originally posted by TexasChem
reply to post by JohnySeagull

 

Please explain how society is responsible for the actions of a free willed individual?
With the different idealogical views of Man worldwide which do you imagine the United States beholden and exactly who enforced that verdict?

Those with the belief of not putting the welfare of another above their own would tend to disagree with your misguided Altruistic Utopian fantasy.Our current Government has evolved using Altruism to enslave its citizens with taxation and the loss of liberty and freedom.This tragedy that has occurred is already being set upon by certain Legislators to be used for that very fact in the form of new gun control and hate speech bills.

True Altruistic acts are extremely rare, and may never occur in the lives of the majority of people. Yet, we are quick to describe a number of our acts as altruistic, as soon as we can attach a label of nobility to them.If you think about it, only in exceptional instances where a person risks his or her own well-being for another -- such as when someone runs into a burning house to save the life of a trapped child, or subdues a mentally unstable murderer shooting people can we really say an Altruistic act has actually happened.Even then ultimately could those acts of courage have been done for our enlightened self-interest, because, once confronted with the disaster and the need, any decent human being knows how much and long their conscience would bother them if they wouldn't do anything about it?

I believe a little Enlightened Egoism is in need for the citizens of America to take responsibility for their own individual needs instead of relying upon the nanny state to fend for them!Ahhh well I may be starting to get off topic here so let me toss my main point out to you JohnnySeagull.

We have only two sources of information about the character of the people around us: we judge them by what they do and by what they say. I feel confident that after researching this Jared Lee Loughner fellow. Reading his posts, watching his You-Tube videos and knowing his acts of murder...I have to agree with the moderators conclusion of this man being a whacko.A nutcase.Evil deeds committed by an evil man.I will tell you right now that I, as a member of American society feel absolutely no responsibility in regards to this individuals actions and as such should bare absolutely no repercussions from this tragic event upon my own personal liberties or freedom by our Government.It really is just that simple.

Well I would have to agree with you but I think what JohnySeagull should of asked what was it that drove him to the state of going insane and killine a bunch of people. Alot of people said it was Hitlers parents that drove him to what he was. A man going up in violence getting beatings from his father. How his childhood had set his mindset to what it was. It was one of the things drove Hitler to do what he did.
What was it that made Jared do this? We don't know and this is what the thread is asking us but like you said every man is responsible for his actions.
His life is completely different from ours and we do not know what his life is like. Yes we live in a society together but in society different actions happen to different people.

reply to post by TexasChem


When I see something like this happen I feel we have failed as a society.
Your points and those of others reminded me of some writing by Kahlil Gibran.

" And if you would punish in the name of righteousness and lay the axe unto the evil tree, let him see to its roots;
And verily he will find the roots of the good and the bad, the fruitful and the fruitless , all entwined together in the silent heart of the earth."

"And that the cornerstone of the temple is not higher than the lowest stone in its foundation."

K.Gibran 1926

His political affiliation is probably not as important as his psychological state of health. This guy couldn't possibly have been a deep thinker, unless of course he decided to retire to jail and do a bunch of university degrees by correspondence.

If he was not an MKUltra style zombie assassin (and I have yet to be convinced of that), then what comes out of this for me is that serious thought should be given by people with a megaphone as to exactly how they express their opinions. It's one thing to scream and holler but quite another to scream and holler loud enough to stampede the cattle.

If this kind of incident, the mentally disturbed running amok, is derived from an overheated climate of discourse in the United States, would it not make sense for everyone on all sides to tone it down a little? Otherwise, who knows where lightning will strike next?

I heard an interesting comment this morning listening to MSNBC's Morning Joe. Joe Scarborough said that after hearing reports on Jared Loughner's behavior, he knew immediately that he suffers from Asperger's Syndrome. Scarborough and his wife are actively involved with Asperger Syndrome support groups because their son suffers from this illness.

A few years ago, my son befriended a boy living in our neighborhood that has Asperger's Syndrome. He felt sorry for him because he did not have any friends. It turned out to be a nightmare for us. We invited him to a pool party and he tried to drown one of our guests. We had 5 people trying to get this guy off of this child. He was cursing and screaming strange religious beliefs. On another occasion, my son had a sleepover and invited several of his friends, including this boy. In the middle of the night several boys woke me up screaming that this boy was strangling my son to death and they could not stop him. I ran into the bedroom to find him sitting on top of my son and he had him in a choke hold. What was so disturbing about this incident was that he had no emotion, no remorse for what he had done. Only a haunting smile on his face, as if he enjoy what he did.











en.wikipedia.org...

Trying not to be syllogistic

But here's a question on infinite time. Time could go on forever, may it has maybe it hasn't. If time can be divided from seconds into smaller seconds and so on infinitely so time is infinite all the time.

Maybe it is a concept that only works in maths but in reality what we are really dealing with is the change of one thing into another where time have no real meaning other than indicate change.

Originally posted by JohnySeagull
When I see something like this happen I feel we have failed as a society.

What did we fail to do? Lock him up before he acted on his insanity? I see people walking down the street arguing with somebody who isn't there all the time...how can we possibly afford to pre-emptively institutionalize anybody who may one day harm others? Did we fail to outlaw guns? That would only give the cartels based only a matter of a few miles away from Tucson even more black market goodies to sell, and make them that much more powerful. Guns will still be readily available to anybody who wants one, even moreso than now. At least there is some kind of background check at a dealer, the cartels won't give a rats @ss who buys what...

reply to post by Erica1631

Thanks for the link to the article on Asperger's Syndrome. On reading it I came across the following passage that would indicate that there must be more than Asperger's involved.

The hypothesis that individuals with AS are predisposed to violent or criminal behavior has been investigated but is not supported by data.[1][24] More evidence suggests children with AS are victims rather than victimizers.[25] A 2008 review found that an overwhelming number of reported violent criminals with AS had coexisting psychiatric disorders such as schizoaffective disorder.[26]

Originally posted by ipsedixit
reply to post by Erica1631

 

Thanks for the link to the article on Asperger's Syndrome. On reading it I came across the following passage that would indicate that there must be more than Asperger's involved.

The hypothesis that individuals with AS are predisposed to violent or criminal behavior has been investigated but is not supported by data.[1][24] More evidence suggests children with AS are victims rather than victimizers.[25] A 2008 review found that an overwhelming number of reported violent criminals with AS had coexisting psychiatric disorders such as schizoaffective disorder.[26]

This is a good article about Asperger children exhibiting violence that could lead to them harming themselves and even resort to killing. This one is worth the read.


www.myaspergerschild.com...

reply to post by 27jd


as a society we will respond to this tragedy by adding to the death toll. we will respond by administering the death penalty.

as a society we can then wash our hands of this. we can't be expect as a society to bear any responsiblity for the terrible tragedies that occur within this society.

its simple. if we ever come across a more intelligent or superior lifeform and they ask us about something like this we can explain like so;

1. some guy killed a load of people.
2. he was a nutjob.
3. we judged him and then we then killed him.
4. why are you looking at us like that?

Originally posted by JohnySeagull

Originally posted by Gazrok
Some folks are just nuts (or just lose it)....it doesn't matter what games they played, what movies they watched, what sports they were into, what political party they belonged to, what websites they went to, what color their eyes are, if mommy and daddy loved them as a kid, etc., etc.

Nuts is nuts...and that's what happened. Not like it's the first time, and won't be the last time someone goes nutball and starts shooting others.

It seems there were signs, but apparently, either the people around him didn't see them, or he didn't have enough people around him to suggest getting the guy some help...

edit on 11-1-2011 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)

wow!

this attitude and judgement coming from a mod or 'super mod' shocks me.

'some folks are just nuts' . thats quite a statement.

I won't speak for the poster, but it is my opinion that mental illness derives from either envirornment or physical biology...or a combination thereof. Nature vs. Nurture etc.

In examining the rapid decline of this person's faculties...an inability to even compose coherent or internally consistent thoughts or ideas...I have to imagine that there was some profound breakdown of his mental capacity from a biological perspective. His friends didn't say he was "out there" as much as they said he stopped making sense altogether. He seemed to feel that "grammer" was a mind control method and even in articulating that theorey he was unable to communicate coherent sentences or thoughts.

In this context I agree...He wasn't a healthy individual driven to the edge who committed some act at a breaking point. He seems to have lost all rationality at a fundemtal biological level. It wasn't movies or outside influences that drove him to this in some psychologically vulnerable moment...it was a rapid and profound internal decay of his faculties IMO. At that stage he was just walking tragedy waiting to touch down.

The college he was kicked out of saw him as dangerous and unstable and even wrote a letter to that effect.

He had run ins with the police and his illness could not have gone un-noticed.

Parents? Siblings? Friends?

And I will say this though I know the 2nd Amend. crowd won't like it...How the hell does someone so clearly out his mind walk into a sportings good store and buy a Glock 19 and several a high capacity 30 round magazines.

I believe folks should be able to own guns...but seeing as we have had that law/tradition since our founding, can't we think up a way to make sure less mentally ill folks are able to purchase them?

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by JohnySeagull

Originally posted by Gazrok
Some folks are just nuts (or just lose it)....it doesn't matter what games they played, what movies they watched, what sports they were into, what political party they belonged to, what websites they went to, what color their eyes are, if mommy and daddy loved them as a kid, etc., etc.

Nuts is nuts...and that's what happened. Not like it's the first time, and won't be the last time someone goes nutball and starts shooting others.

It seems there were signs, but apparently, either the people around him didn't see them, or he didn't have enough people around him to suggest getting the guy some help...

edit on 11-1-2011 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)

wow!

this attitude and judgement coming from a mod or 'super mod' shocks me.

'some folks are just nuts' . thats quite a statement.

I won't speak for the poster, but it is my opinion that mental illness derives from either envirornment or physical biology...or a combination thereof. Nature vs. Nurture etc.

In examining the rapid decline of this person's faculties...an inability to even compose coherent or internally consistent thoughts or ideas...I have to imagine that there was some profound breakdown of his mental capacity from a biological perspective. His friends didn't say he was "out there" as much as they said he stopped making sense altogether. He seemed to feel that "grammer" was a mind control method and even in articulating that theorey he was unable to communicate coherent sentences or thoughts.

In this context I agree...He wasn't a healthy individual driven to the edge who committed some act at a breaking point. He seems to have lost all rationality at a fundemtal biological level. It wasn't movies or outside influences that drove him to this in some psychologically vulnerable moment...it was a rapid and profound internal decay of his faculties IMO. At that stage he was just walking tragedy waiting to touch down.

The college he was kicked out of saw him as dangerous and unstable and even wrote a letter to that effect.

He had run ins with the police and his illness could not have gone un-noticed.

Parents? Siblings? Friends?

And I will say this though I know the 2nd Amend. crowd won't like it...How the hell does someone so clearly out his mind walk into a sportings good store and buy a Glock 19 and several a high capacity 30 round magazines.

I believe folks should be able to own guns...but seeing as we have had that law/tradition since our founding, can't we think up a way to make sure less mentally ill folks are able to purchase them?

Yes we can have all of this stuff when the lies end. Lies and societies crazyness pushed this character over the edge, IMO. Maybe aspergers is just part of it.


I mean how does a guy with a bomb get on a plane... I dunno... Why was the FBI director sent there, cover up?

what is everyone crying about this guy made a few posts on this site. big deal. he made a choice and went through with it. he isnt the first and he aint gonna be the last. and just cause she is some congress person dont make it any different then some other dude getting took out. actually i feel worse for that kid that caught one then some suck ass politician. no offense.

death is a reality, when your number is pulled its just a matter of how.

reply to post by AboveTopSecret.com

This is a rather unique situation, to say the least. I and our staff have been considering if we should provide a public statement, and if we do, what should we say? Especially since we're already being contacted by the media for comment and more information.

I personally think that ATS should keep any information regarding its members confidential from the media regardless of what the situation may be.Maybe hold out until the US government starts snooping around. Then make a deal. Say ATS provides all information regarding this member for Top Secret information regarding UFOs. That's a fair trade!

My bad, You already posted all the info you have for anyone to see. Well if there is any more "unseen" information keep it private!! do not give the media any bones. That would come back to haunt ATS!

Originally posted by fianna
what is everyone crying about this guy made a few posts on this site. big deal. he made a choice and went through with it. he isnt the first and he aint gonna be the last. and just cause she is some congress person dont make it any different then some other dude getting took out. actually i feel worse for that kid that caught one then some suck ass politician. no offense.

death is a reality, when your number is pulled its just a matter of how.

People make choices for a reason. Please try to show a tiny bit more respect. If you don't want to offend a person with your post don't post that part of your post because it isn't needed.

reply to post by JohnySeagull


I don't think he will get the death penalty. Mentally insane people who snap don't usually get that sentence, he will more likely be locked away in a mental institution.

Originally posted by MMPI2

Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by MMPI2

 

Triple wrong. He was a registered independent...

Loughner registered to vote on Sept. 29, 2006, identifying himself as an independent. Records show he voted in the 2006 and 2008 elections but is current listed as "inactive" on the state's voter roles -- meaning that he did not vote in November.

The political affiliations of Loughner, who is being charged by state and federal authorities with the shooting of Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D) as well as 19 other victims outside a Tucson grocery store on Saturday, have become the subject of a white-hot partisan debate in recent days.

In the immediate aftermath of the shooting, liberals sought to paint Loughner as an anti-government, tea party conservative. Conservatives retorted that Loughner lacked anything close to a coherent political philosophy -- a case strengthened by subsequent glimpses into his personal life that suggests someone struggling with mental illness.
atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...

Just because some class mate categorized him as a "left-wing pothead", doesn't make is so. That classmate probably wouldn't know a "left-wing pothead" if one bit him on the @ss. You've read his writings, do you think by talking to him you could get any idea of what he is even saying, much less his political leanings? I thought left wingers were against guns? Doesn't seem to be the case here. And why would a democrat, shoot a democratic congress woman? He doesn't fit the right wing mold either, since by reading his posts, he isn't religious. I'm so sick of this need so many have to categorize EVERYBODY as either right, or left wing, most real people lean different ways on different issues depending on their life experiences.

edit on 11-1-2011 by 27jd because: (no reason given)

How many different ways do you have to be proven wrong, dude?

1) A person who knew him personally identified Loughner as aligned with the "left wing";
2) His family has been identified as being strongly aligned with the Pima county democrat party;
3) He frequented democrat/Gifford's political rallies, and;
4) He corresponded with her office, as evidenced by him being in possession of letters from her people.

Dismissing an eyewitness to his political and philosophical affiliations as "probably wouldn't know a "left-wing pothead" if one bit him on the @ss" is disingenuous and a denial of obvious reality. She KNEW HIM and was exposed to his social / political beliefs and the actions that were perpetuated by those beliefs.

Regarding Loughner's writings, they use the same fallacial logic and twisted problem-solving as many "progressives" I know do when they try to argue a point that denies obvious reality.

_______________________________

Look, I stand in opposition to the "left/right" paradigm as much as the next person, but denying an obvious truth - that Loughner identified and sought to associate with democrats, and evidences some of the thought processes common to the hard-core "progressive" mindset - does nothing to help expose the dialectic lies.

I offer this for your consideration:

1) I know for a fact that people I work with and others I interact with on a daily basis have often assumed I am a conservative due to several of my beliefs and things I have said in conversation.
2)Both of my parents are staunch Republicans and have worked for several Republican campaigns over the years.
3)I attended 3 or 4 the rallies of at least two Republican candidates in my home state.
4)I have corresponded with at least two Republican politicians in my home state and have a letter from one of them.

Now, take a guess what political party I consider myself a member of. My point is that we should be very careful in assuming anything about Jared's political beliefs from the limited things we know about him.

It bothers me to no end that politicians on all sides are trying to abscribe and associate Jared's beliefs and actions to a particular political philosophy. The violent rhetoric that has arisen in political discourse over the past 10 or so years needs to be discontinued, not because a disturbed individual attacked a politician and killed several people in the process, but because the use of such rhetoric is primitive, inflammatory, and just plain wrong in general.

It's pathetic that we are having this national discussion about violent rhetoric now, after this shooting has occurred, because really I do not think there is any connection between Sarah Palin's "crosshairs map" or any of the the other examples (yes, the left is guilty of it too) and the shooting. We should have put an end to such speech and imagery years ago by group consensus simply because it is wrong and is not what this country is about. Trying to connect the shooting with the rise of violent rhetoric is just sad. The violent rhetoric would still be wrong and would still be needed to be stopped even if this shooting had never occurred.

reply to post by fianna


We had another shooter that posted here was well, some native American kid who shot up his school a while back. Although I don't share your sentiment that the congress woman being shot isn't a bad thing, I do find it strange how we as a whole find some murder more heinous and shocking than others. How many people are murdered a few miles south of Tucson regularly because of our failed drug policies, empowering the black market and turning murderers into gods, yet we allow that to happen because it's more important to stop consenting adults from making their own choices. In this case, people seem to be most outraged that a congress woman was shot, as if they are above everybody else. That is somewhat offensive to me, since many others died in that shooting, she will probably pull through. The only other person that is getting mention is the child, which is also in my opinion the most tragic part of the story.

Just wanted to mention; talk about too many coincidences; Sopihia Bush (celeb) is 2nd cousions with the 9 year old girl that passed away and gwyneth paltrow is related to the judge that passed away through her father.

If it has not been mentioned already the Washington Post has picked up this story.

www.washingtonpost.com...