Experts: Mystery contrail was from Chinese missile

Operational security is keeping the active Air Force members tight lipped.
The retired still maintain their contacts so are still in the know.
Cash is saying this as a civilian.
The chinese did what he is stating.

Originally posted by RelentlessLurker

could you provide examples of contrails forming in this manner well below 5000 feet?

Rockets don't form contrails below 5000 feet, they only form them in the stratosphere just like jet aircraft, here is a video of a liquid fuel Atlas doing exactly that: www.youtube.com...
Notice how the contrail begins to zig zag almost immediately.
Another view here: www.youtube.com...

Maybe you are wondering why the jet contrail in the suspect video extends to "ground level"? It a illusion, caused by curvature of the earth. Watch a commercial jet flying west that is conning, see if it's contrail dips down towards the horizon after 20 to 30 minutes.

U.S. Air Force Brig. Gen. Jim Cash is a warmongering old windbag who retired in 1991.

He wants to embarrass Obama, and he'd love to blow this up into a war against China.
That would make up for his disappointment in not seeing Iran nuked.

You can read his stuff online. I bet he's great friends with "bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" John Cain.

Originally posted by RelentlessLurker

could you provide examples of contrails forming in this manner well below 5000 feet?

Better example here of rocket contrail, which starts to zig zag immediately, plus sound of rocket engines, and added bonus sundog destroying shockwaves!!

www.youtube.com...

It appears this was filmed from Titusville which is 12 miles away from the launch pad, you can still hear the exhaust sound really well. There are always hundreds of pleasure boats out in Santa Monica Bay, some of them would have been within 12 miles of the supposed "Chinese missile launch" how come nobody heard it?

Originally posted by TimBrummer
reply to post by Violater1

 

1. General Cash is 71 years old

2. He has never seen a large rocket launch in person, only small air to air missiles

3. He has never seen a contrail video using zoom lens, he has only seem them in real life.

Everything looks different on TV. He is a confused old man.

4. Is he a consultant for any military hardware supplier?

edit on 21-11-2010 by TimBrummer because: Clarification

1. 71 years old is a problem for you. Is George Soros or was Ronald Reagan too old for you?
2. I see. So you were standing next to him all those years that he witnessed the classified missile launches at Vandenberg AFB.
3. Again, So you were standing next to him all those years that he witnessed the classified missile launches at Vandenberg AFB and Cape Canaveral Air Force Station/ John F. Kennedy Space Center.
4. And what military providing company doesn't have Very Experienced, High Ranking Officers?
5. You Fail!

Originally posted by TimBrummer

Originally posted by RelentlessLurker

could you provide examples of contrails forming in this manner well below 5000 feet?

Better example here of rocket contrail, which starts to zig zag immediately, plus sound of rocket engines, and added bonus sundog destroying shockwaves!!

www.youtube.com...

It appears this was filmed from Titusville which is 12 miles away from the launch pad, you can still hear the exhaust sound really well. There are always hundreds of pleasure boats out in Santa Monica Bay, some of them would have been within 12 miles of the supposed "Chinese missile launch" how come nobody heard it?

edit on 22-11-2010 by TimBrummer because: (no reason given)

Rockets don't form contrails below 5000 feet
Really?
Really!!
A contrail is the condensation trail that is left behind by a passing jet plane. Contrails form when hot humid air from jet exhaust mixes with environmental air of low vapor pressure and low temperature. Vapor pressure is just a fancy term for the amount of pressure that is exerted by water vapor itself (as opposed to atmospheric, or barometric, pressure which is due to the weight of the entire atmosphere above you). The mixing occurs directly behind the plane due to the turbulence generated by the engine. If condensation (conversion from a gas to a liquid) occurs, then a contrail becomes visible. Since air temperatures at these high atmospheric levels are very cold (generally colder than -40 F), only a small amount of liquid is necessary for condensation to occur. Water is a normal byproduct of combustion in engines.
The video that you provide is an Atlas V. It has a very scant exhaust plume related to it’s liquid fuel.
Atlas, The Atlas V rocket is an expendable launch vehicle formerly built by Lockheed Martin. It is now built by the Lockheed Martin-Boeing joint venture United Launch Alliance. Aerojet develops and manufactures the Atlas V boosters. The rocket, built in Decatur, Alabama, consists of a first stage powered by kerosene and liquid oxygen, which uses a Russian made RD-180 engine, and a liquid hydrogen liquid oxygen powered Centaur upper stage.
www2.jpl.nasa.gov...

The Chinese JL-1 and JL-2 Missiles use solid fuel and can make the exact type of exhaust plume seen in the videos and photos of the California mystery plume.
The newest generation of Chinese strategic missile, including the Dong Feng-31, will narrow the gap between current Chinese, US and Russian ballistic missile designs. This system is a solid-fueled, three-stage mobile missile with a range of 8000 km carrying a 700 kg, one-megaton warhead. The DF-31 limited-range ICBM will give China a major strike capability that will be difficult to counterattack at any stage of its operation, from pre-flight mobile operations through terminal flight phases. As with the JL-1/DF-21 combination, the DF-31 and JL-2 are land-based and sea-based variants of the same missile.
www.globalsecurity.org...
www.sinodefence.com...

Originally posted by Violater1

Rockets don't form contrails below 5000 feet
Really?
Really!!
Since air temperatures at these high atmospheric levels are very cold (generally colder than -40 F), only a small amount of liquid is necessary for condensation to occur. Water is a normal byproduct of combustion in engines.

We never launched rockets in temps below +40 degrees F, NASA tried that once with the Challenger and ended up with 7 dead astronauts. I suppose airplanes flying in Antarctica where it is -40 F might form contrails below 5000 feet.

The video that you provide is an Atlas V. It has a very scant exhaust plume related to it’s liquid fuel.

The Chinese JL-1 and JL-2 Missiles use solid fuel and can make the exact type of exhaust plume seen in the videos and photos of the California mystery plume.

The poster asked about a contrail, you cannot see a solid fuel rocket's contrail because the smoky exhaust hides it, so I posted a liquid fuel rocket contrail which you can actually see.

A Chinese rocket launch looks just like ours, although I have never seen one in person:
www.youtube.com...

If this is such a big government cover up then why would they come out and say we don't know what it is when they supposedly knew instantly? They hand plents of time to figure it out anyways. If they were truly covering it up the plane theory would have been used instantly.

Either way why would china even do this? lol It makes no sense from a Military standpoint. China does not have the tech or equipment to invade the US. They would need more than one air craft carrier to pose any type of threat. If they fired a missle at one of our cities we would fire back at them and why would china risk that? They are becoming economicly stronger as each year passes. Why would they ruin that for themselves? lol China stands a greater chance launching an economic warfare more than anything else. But then again all you conspiracy theorists that believe in this crap also believe the world is run by an elite group that decides economic well being for us in the first place.

Originally posted by Violater1

1. 71 years old is a problem for you. Is George Soros or was Ronald Reagan too old for you?
2. I see. So you were standing next to him all those years that he witnessed the classified missile launches at Vandenberg AFB.
3. Again, So you were standing next to him all those years that he witnessed the classified missile launches at Vandenberg AFB and Cape Canaveral Air Force Station/ John F. Kennedy Space Center.
4. And what military providing company doesn't have Very Experienced, High Ranking Officers?
5. You Fail!

The poster asked for possible explainations, I never said it was certain or 100% factual. Were you next to him when he witnessed classified ICBM launches?

So you agree that #4 anyway is a likely reason.

reply to post by TimBrummer


It does sound a bit odd that a guy with Cash's experience would never have witnessed a missile launch..
Is there somewhere that he actually states that or just your assumption?

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


It's easy to forget that this could very well be the most important thing going on right now. Thanks for the post.

Originally posted by TimBrummer
We never launched rockets in temps below +40 degrees F

Exsqueeze me but, at what altitude and temp do you think we launch AARAM's, Sidewinders, and other air to air, or air to surface missiles from?
At what altitude and temp do you think Edwards AFB is?
Right now, it's 40 degrees here. And you don't think were doing missile testing now?
Fail.
And I mean miserably, fail.

reply to post by Violater1


lol, not to mention a few thousand feet up can be even colder...
2nd

Hell, who knows whats really going on. We can all twist the goings on in the world 7 ways from Sunday and still have no idea whats up. The hush, hush tippy toe stuff that goes on in the government creates conspiracy theories and wild ideas. We have no other option then to make up our own stories/ideas/theories all because the government can't and or wont give anyone a straight answer about anything. The fact they even have secrets is grounds for their people to disbelieve what they say.

I don't know if it was a missile or wasn't a missile, I can think of a so many different theories for and against, but ultimately we all will never know the truth.

Personally though I believe it is highly illogical for China to be eyeballing the US in any military fashion. We buy too many of their products that justify their factory laden landscape for them to destroy their #1 consumer. Someone has to buy their crap and were the only country A) dumb enough B) luxurious enough to afford C) consumption bred zombies!!!

They need the US as it is, in tact, buying and consuming their "stuff"...

Not to mention we have the most debt to china, so one sure fire way to make sure you NEVER get paid back is to destroy all means of that even being possible...ie: war

War with China seems so incredibly illogical on so many levels to me.

I do believe Obama is acting out of line with the agenda though, and he is being publicly destroyed for either impeachment, resignation or at the very least a guarantee of no second term.

I've had a feeling from the get go that Biden was the "winner" they wanted to push their agenda he is outspokenly pro Zionist.

my 2c

Originally posted by backinblack

It does sound a bit odd that a guy with Cash's experience would never have witnessed a missile launch..
Is there somewhere that he actually states that or just your assumption?

It's my assumption, he was a fighter jock and those guys despise unmanned vehicles, also he talked about launching air to air missiles but nothing about ICBMs.

Originally posted by Violater1

Exsqueeze me but, at what altitude and temp do you think we launch AARAM's, Sidewinders, and other air to air, or air to surface missiles from?
At what altitude and temp do you think Edwards AFB is?
Right now, it's 40 degrees here. And you don't think were doing missile testing now?
Fail.
And I mean miserably, fail.

edit on 22-11-2010 by Violater1 because: (no reason given)

Those are small missiles I was talking about Space Launch Vehicles (rockets to the layman). Notice I said "rocket" in my post, Rockets go into outer space, missiles shoot something down or blow it up. You don't put a 40,000 pound satellite into orbit with an itty bitty missile.

I know Edwards well, it's at about 2300 feet altitude. Are the jets taking off at Edwards leaving contrails right now?

And since you are at Edwards, why don't you ask the CO why Cash thinks this is a Chinese missile, we would all like to know

Originally posted by TimBrummer

Originally posted by backinblack

It does sound a bit odd that a guy with Cash's experience would never have witnessed a missile launch..
Is there somewhere that he actually states that or just your assumption?

It's my assumption, he was a fighter jock and those guys despise unmanned vehicles, also he talked about launching air to air missiles but nothing about ICBMs.

Well I'd really like to believe you but, you know, it's just an opinion..
From what I have read about his career, I would assume he had seen missile launches..

Originally posted by backinblack

From what I have read about his career, I would assume he had seen missile launches..

He was in Air Defense Command, not Systems or Strategic Command which launched the ICBMs and SLVs. The flight profile between small missiles like he worked with and large rockets that I did is totally different. Maybe he saw an ICBM or SLV launch but it wasn't part of his job description, just like I have never seen an air to air missile launch.

In fact this reminds me of a PhD friend of mine who has designed space satellites and probes for 25 years, but had never seen a rocket launch. I have to call her up and tell her exactly when a rocket is going out of Vandeberg so she can go outside and see it. Then I had to explain all the flight sequenses, what the "steam" coming out of the rocket before launch was, the shock cone, on and on. She still didn't get most of it. Just because someone is really smart and an expert in their field does not mean they know anything about a closely related field they have never studied.

reply to post by TimBrummer


True, sort of sounds like that so called expert everyone seems to quote, that said it's a plane..
The guy spent most of his career dealing in IT and systems..

what if this was one of our subs firing that missle??

do you really think that a chinese sub could get within 12 miles of the california coast, and we wouldn't know it??

if TPTB were really behind this, they would have an agenda attached to it. maybe they were hoping for someone to actually get some better footage. when that didn't happen, they had to create doubt, controversy, and public dissention as to what really happened. this would explain why they first claimed it was nothing, then it was the flight from hawaii, then it was UPS902, but still they did not get enough main stream coverage as to the fact that this could of been a chinese missile

so, the next step, they needed to have someone with authority back up the claim that yes, it was a chinese missle. and, who better than a retired general, who just so happens to have been stationed at NORAD. this is exactly what they want, get it into the MSM, and still have deniability.

TPTB have known for awhile that the american public was going to revolt about the new TSA guidelines, and without actually having to create another 9-11, which they knew WE would never fall for again, they come up with this plan.

so, now that general cash has come forward, you may start to see other credible experts join him. this would force TPTB to finally admit, that yes, it was a chinese missile, and it caught us off guard. we didn't want to alarm the public until we could assure them that we have corrected the problem. with our new missle defense program, and our new state of the art sub detection system in place, we have protected the american public.

now, with the american public safe again, and the MSM reporting how security really does save american lives, how could we possibly complain about a little discomfort at the airports.

and, just when we again accept the intrusions into our privacy as a necessary evil, another chinese missle comes out of the pacific ocean, this time heading for downtown L.A. but are new missle defense system is able to shoot it down, within 1/2 mile of the california coast.

TPTB would get everything they want, we as americans would give up even more of our rights and freedoms, because this time they were able to stop another 9-11 from occuring, and they would be able to blame it on the chinese, which would give TPTB cause, with americans support, to void out our debt to china.

this clearance of our debt would just be another feather in the cap of TPTB, and we wouldn't question any additional spending that they would deem necessary.


Just a thought, what do you think??