A question I have towards all religious people!

People are going to believe what they want. Personally I have to land on the side of faith. I'm more of a Gospel of Thomas kind of guy. God is inside us and all around us. I carry my faith with me, but don't push it on anyone else.

Besides, if I'm wrong, I die and nothing happens. I'm worm food like everyone else. But if the atheists are wrong I'll be wearing my smarmy grin with my halo and harp.

I personally am agnostic. There's not enough evidence either way to prove or disprove the existance of a mythical force collectively known as God/Allah/Tim...etc. I find it easier to believe in the existance of unicorns and bigfoot.

Organized religion is just that, organized. Once people realized religion could be used to control others, it lost all of its power and meaning. Christian zealots and Islamic Jihadist are each a side of the same coin. Religion and fear go hand in hand. Its is all about control. The illusion of free will and choice cover it up.

Once question dares asking: Who or what made God?

In the absence of facts, all we can do is speculate.

I consider myself to be religious, even though I don't ascribe to any organized faith. I have my own ideas about the way things are, and the reason behind all things.

However, I don't fault any who do follow mainstream religions, as I know the value of faith, any faith, and used correctly, it can be a powerful tool.

I suspect you (the OP) are approaching it from a purely logical standpoint. Not all things can be explained by logic, just as any one sense will never give you a full picture of an object. Only when you see, touch, smell, taste, hear an object, do you have a better understanding of it, and even then, with these limited senses (for all we know, there could be far more that we simply haven't seen evidence of yet), you only get a partial picture. Life is the same way. Only by employing one's logic, experiences, loves, hates, and yes, ideas and faith, do you get a better picture of it.

Note though, there's no "conspiracy" angle here, so better suited to the other religion board.

To come back to your question

I believe in a spiritual balance in the universe that will punish all those that do evil and have evil motives. It gives me strength to go on everyday, for if every time i got sad and depressed about blaming everyone I can smile and know that there will be final judgment. I like my religion and I do a lot of charity and I'm not perfect and so is no one else, but the anti-religious clique has set a terrible target for Christians and Muslims and other religious groups, because you anger is directed at a very small group of people, a group of people who will get what is coming to them, if not by God then by the universe for the universe isn't as shallow as we think.

reply to post by wdkirk

Once question dares asking: Who or what made God?

Whoever they are, you can bet they know the real story and are hiding it from us... whatever that is.

i dont believe in any certain religion, but i do believe that if we treat others as wed like to be treated that SOMEWHERE along the line well end up in the right spot. yeah, i know it sounds really idiotic. but you asked for opinions.

S&F

reply to post by rusethorcain


I have had this thought in my head for months that I can't really explain, but I'll try

In the Origins of our world, there are 2 theories I'm aware of, and that is intelligent design and evolution via big bang

Big Bang follows varies theories, with M-theory now being followed and the newest fad, I have nothing against the physics, but for M theory(look it up if you don't know) or the "theory of everything" those membranes that collided to form the Big Bang had to come from somewhere, just as God or a creator race/being also had to come from somewhere, but if you keep going back to what happened before that you will go back to infinity...

There should be 3 theories, but the 3rd one is impossible to comprehend.

So what is important to me is that there is a God and He has one mighty sword.

Originally posted by wdkirk
Organized religion is just that, organized. Once people realized religion could be used to control others, it lost all of its power and meaning. Christian zealots and Islamic Jihadist are each a side of the same coin. Religion and fear go hand in hand. Its is all about control. The illusion of free will and choice cover it up.

True religion goes deeper than letting fear control you, people in the Bible who lived and followed with fear didn't get far

The war in the middle east right now has nothing to do with religion, American soldiers have killed mostly civilians... Do you thing it's fair to think all Americans are d***s? Obviously not, don't put the blame for evil men on religion or NWO, we live and die by our own choices. "They" are not as powerful as we make them out to be.

Being religious and having faith in a higher power has nothing to do with being frightened or seeking a shield of comfort. A higher power "GOD" is as real to many of us as ghosts, spirits, alien's UFO's are to others. Have you ever just known something to be true, so much so you can feel it in your soul. I am a Christian not because I seek something after death but because I know in my heart and soul there is a God who is perfect in every way and we all fall short of that perfection but he loves us anyway so much in fact that he sent his very son, the earthly manifistation of God's spirit to died for our sins so that through him God can spend eternity with us. That is very powerful stuff. A being that cares for us all so much he let his son die so he can be with us. That kind of Love reflects love back. I live my life according to what I know to be righteous and true not to gain entrance into some "glorious afterlife" but because I love my God and his son Jesus and desire to make them proud of me. As a child you do the same with your parents if they arer good parents, you want them to be proud of you. Well God is everyones father. And you know what, he loves YOU, even though you go against his wishes and deny him, just as a Father does. Untill you have seriously asked Jesus into your heart and tried to have a personal relationship with him, you will not understand what I experience. It's not just chemicals in my body giving me a feeling, it's a power and love undescribeable. I won't be responding to anyones criticism of this post because I have answered the topic question from my perspective.

Hey gratz OP on your 100th thread lol. Havent ever even started one myself

This isa prett cool thread and has a lot of different peoples views which is awesome to see and talk about. Also there has hardly been any bickering or trolling, flaming and the rest of it, which is quite amazing after the last few weeks of hateful comments in threads, seems like people are starting to chill out lol

As for OP question, im a muslim myself, would class myself as religious in intentions and sincerity but im lacking more on the action part which is really bad. Theres a lot more to improve with ymself, and im sure everyone can say the same for themselves too, in or out of religion.

I have always looked for answers about religion, through peoples opinions, science etc, and the more i find out about religion and science etc the more it strengthens my faith.

To start with, i will say the most important thing which most overlook, i believ that in most if not al religions, especially monotheistic ones, they all say life is a TEST. and to believe in the hereafter, heaven/hell etc. to which we are alocated to if we were to pass that test.

From this basic point it makes obvious sense to me that no matter how deep down the rabbit hole you go, or no matter how much evidence or proof you might find, i do not believe that you will find concrete solid evidence that proves God and religion to be factual. Because logically speaking this would make the TEST pointless. Having the answers put forth before you, wont challenge you own judgement, therefore this wont do justice to the believer.

Speaking of justice, another important matter that i believe is that without Religion, without judgement day, or the hereafter, there is no such thing as true justice. Which totally negates the meaning of life, i believe in more than the fact that if there was no religion to rank us in terms of our good and bad deeds, then i would be no difference to the Hitlers and all the other 'evil' people, In fact there would be no such thing as evil or knowing right from wrong without religion.
I believe in a hope that those people who have lived torturous lives get recompensated in the hereafter justly, where as those who have lived long evil lives with murder rape and all the rest of it to their names have nothing waiting in the hereafter to also bring them to justice. I think that without religion or spirituality those people who are generally good and faithful, they will go 'bad' and those who are 'bad' anyway, like those who kill in the name of God etc, they will either be worseor remain the same. I do not belive it is the Religion itself that drives them to commit atrocities, it is they themselves and the influence they gotten outside the fundametals of religious sources.

With that being said, its easy to think religion is a one sided story, that is totally wrong. And this time there is Proof of this. Its not about religion vs non religion or atheism, in history it has never been that way for any of the major faiths.

This part is important so i will try to elaborate. It is known fact that religion exists, Islam chrisitanity exists. Monotheism exists. It is also fact that Polytheism exists, in many ways, from hindu, greek, roman, pagan etc etc. Its fact that people also believe in the occult.

Now this is where the research has to come in, because religion hasnt been onesided story, it has alwasy been 2 sided. Duality. Yin Yang. Male Female. etc etc. When i mean always, i mean since the very begining. And in most cases it has been Polytheism in its pagan occult roots, which reach as far back as history was written.
Jesus (pbuh) had his beef with the Romans, Moses (pbuh) with the pharoahs, Abraham (pbuh) with the idol worhippers of his time. All of these conflicts between eachother caused a lot of deaths.

The thing is everyone bashes religion, chrisitanity has had a lot, islam is taking a lot these days aswell. But they should also know its not religion in itself that has caused these conflicts, but the beef between paganism and monotheism.

Now to talk a bit about paganism, they are regarded as occult (hidden) which means theres gonna be a lot of secrecies. People do not know enough about the occult and their endeavors throughout history, and you will learn why it has remained so secret if you conduct your own research.
Also with research you will also learn a lot of similarities between the the polythiestic religions. You will find man similarites in kabbalah, freemasonry, roman, greek, norse, aztec, mayan and all the other polytheistic religions. Th same way that on the religious side of monotheism, Old testament Torah, Gospels, Quran also bare similarities. Through the ages this has been the case.

So to summarise, most of the above is fact as to that they have existed, but ofcourse not been proven.

Now to go foward from here, is to tread into more conspiratorial waters. Speaking about the occult etc paganism, they have much symbolism, symbolsm that can be traced back a long way too, with sun worship etc. This same symbolism is VERY PREVALENT in modern society, if you conduct your own research you will find the symbolism of freemasonry, it is definately a fact that the symbolism of freemasonry is quite common in society these days, whether they be coincidental or not, far fetched or not, they are palced taht way and they are there that is fact.

To go even further would be to research all these occult bodies, do your own research and im sure more often than not you will find similarities, my conclusion was that they be luciferic in nature. This can be considered fact for some, skeptical for the other, and maybe false to another. However once research is done, then you will know that there are surprising sychronicities within these subjects.

Now to talk about a few more things. Occult societies, the triablge and the eye masonry illuminati are all modern conspiracies, i think many in ATS have come across them. I dont knwo what your opinion are on this matter, but i believe they exist and are part of our society on the highest levels, sitting at the top of the hierarchy. These guys, sitting on top, are remarkably intelligent, many of the most influential people in the world hav been aprt of these secret societies, that is fact. The question i ask myself is that how come these guys, who are undoubtely more clever than me, even as scientists and at the cutting edge of modern technology and are in a society that science > religion believe in occult things. Believe in the supernatural etc. Its also a fact that these higer ups know a lot more about these thigns than us, the guys sitting in the bottom of the hierarchy, these guys are part of government officals etc. These guys must know more than we do. Same way government know more about technology than we do, the same way they know more about these occult practices we do. They bear the same symbolism. The question i ask is, what do they know that we dont, and why do they believe in what they believe? Thats the main question i keep asking myself and as i look for more answers, it strengthens my faith more.

Now to talk more on the Atheist, fitting in with both sides of the story more similarites occur, more ideals etc. I believe that the atheist are like the middle ground, that both sides recruit from.
Even the atheists ideologies bare a lot of similarities and dilution from either monotheistic or pagan in nature.

To give a brief summary of the luciferian doctrines from the religious POV. It is said that, satan is the biggest deciever, he is made of a smokeless fire a djinn in quran though christians may believe him to be a fallen angel, he also prides himself to be better than adam or the sons of, it is said that his DECEPTION and LIES are ridiculously powrful. His scheme was to make man fall astray, go to hell, a place where he knows he will be sent to. He was granted this power by god. His aim was to make mankind belive god didnt exist. His aim was to teach people they can attribute themselves to god.

This last sentence is very important and is also very prevalent in subtlety among modern day, the aim of making onself god, enlightenment through ones own means, hitting 9th chakra, feeling reborn, evolving next stage etc. All of this knowledge and intellect man can achieve themselves throught heir own means, this all shares similarities to occultic luciferian doctrines, and within atheism this shares surprising similarities.

Now for agnostic, those i believe are people who are unsure, and yet they believe in a god of some sort yet they arnt part of any religion. So to summarise i belive that the atheism and the people in the 'middle ground' which are a lot of people these days, they are the guys the higherups from both sides will recruit for their agendas.

Ok my post is getting really long i apologize, but this topic has some serious depth to it. One cannot come under any conclusion after reading a simple thread on this matter, they must surely do ridiculous research, hell i spent most of my life looking into this. And even im still learning ever more.

To finish off i want to say i am religious because this research i have done strengthens my faith, i believe SCIENE and RELIGION go hand in hand. I belive that history holds the answers for many things, and the corruption od religion in the past has made things really obscure. I believe everything can be explained through religion, UFO, ETs all can be explained in religion and islam too, therefore the more i learn about any subject the more i strengthen my faith. Life is a big jigsaw puzzle, the more you fit piece together and make sense of them the more sense you can make of it. And the more patterns emerge.

I think what people need to do nowadays is to strip religions of titles, strip christianity from its name islam from its name etc strip the all, and then conduct your research, once you find the similarities, the truth will stand out clear from error. Its these names that make people conflict in ideas amongst eachother.

If chritianity was the last montheistic religion, UNALTERED since revelation i would be a christian, if Judaism was the alst unaltered religion, and Talmud and kaballah and other occult pagan influences were taken away from it, i would be a Jew. Yet alas i am a muslim because the Quran was the last revelation, it remains unaltered since revelation and this is why im a muslim. Its been said that a messenger was sent to all the tribes of all the pagan sect, all teaching monotheism, but either the information on them is sooo limited and unknown in this day, one cannot simply go back to that, the best option is to stay wiht the most modern version of monotheism, use that as a basis, because from my research i also understand islam is not a religion, it covers most aspect of life, from the mundane task to those spiritual in nature. Imo it is a religion that bares logic and reason for all its actions.

Ok i thinks that all for now, i would love to carry on a lot further because this toic will never end for me hehe. but gotta keep it short. I hope this answers your quesiton OP, or better yet i hope this bring up more questions

Much peace n respect to all.

EDIT: im sorry for all the grammar mistkaes in my post, will take forever to go back and sort them out, please bear wiht me and even if you skim read i, you should be able to get the gist of it which is the main thing

I've just always felt like I was being observed. I don't define it, I don't decline it.
At some point something happened from nothing, at the begining.
Who, What, Where, How ?
Wow, your guess is as good as mine.

Originally posted by Electronegativity
Well, the reason why i have faith and found Jesus Christ and am a Christian and all, is because i used to be involved in the Occult, and the things i have seen, heard and felt happen to me are very real and very frightening and the only way i got out of all of that and had all of that stuff get out of my life is through my faith and acceptance in Jesus Christ! there we go, long story short!!

So... I'm confused. As an Atheist or 'Non-believer', this statement hits so close to home for me. You claim that you are a Christian because you were involved with the Occult. I take this to mean that you believed in "Satan" or demons or some other abberation before becoming a Christian, but what made you believe in ANYTHING to begin with?

The reason this hits close to home is as an Atheist I am confronted all too often by others with the threat of going to Hell.

What the....!?!!?

I don't believe in that crap. Why am I being threatened with something that is in my honest opinion, a total farse?

Anyway, what made you believe in the Occult before Christianity is my main bullet point here.

I do approve of worshipping a prophet because he is just a man.

Originally posted by sapien82
are you saying that I trust my senses because of faith ?

No, I'm saying that trusting your senses is faith. Faith is just another word for trust.
Do you have any cast-iron, rock solid, logical proof that your senses are not deceiving you? Of course you haven't. But you believe them anyway. So you believe them without being able to prove them. That's faith.

reply to post by DISRAELI

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Do you have any cast-iron, rock solid, logical proof that your senses are not deceiving you? Of course you haven't. But you believe them anyway. So you believe them without being able to prove them. That's faith.

edit on 2-11-2010 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

Although the question is not directed to me, how about viewing a decent wall and trying to walk through it. No success? Okay, then try not to see the wall and walk through it? No difference? Thought so. There's your proof. Or you can try with rocks, if you want rock solid.

We have to trust our senses, otherwise some generally agreeable bad things would happen to us. I say that it requires to have faith to believe in something you have no experience of - just hearsay.

-v

Us humans are so funny with our own interpretations of words and their meanings.

First, in order to know what the word religious means we must define what the word Religion means. Not how Google or merriam-webster defines it, but how the people who wrote the bible through divine authority understood it to be. Assuming we are talking about Christians.

James 1:27 says,"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

You are truly a religious christian if you follow the religion that God the Father accepts as described in James 1 :27. Maybe you would like to rephrase your opening statement accordingly

wow I really liked how this thread turned out, not a lot of trolling, not a lot of flames, you guys have all given good answers, and I thank you for that.



have a nice day

reply to post by v01i0


Thanks for the video. There is peace in knowing and doubt in believing. And it also says to me that God doesn't need us to believe in Him/Her in order to exist. God is self evident. I think, therefore I am. Love philosophy. I know there is something, some being, some force of consciousness that is above all others in in control of everything...EVERYTHING. Paul in the bible ( I think it was Paul) said and I' m paraphrasing poorly, "As ye sow, so shall ye reap." Some people say there is a natural law of retribution in this world. Then others say what goes around comes around. Then Einstein with MC2 and energy cannot be destroyed....what goes around comes around. And now we have fractal theory and chaos theory. I've read the scientists like at CERN, are looking for the God particle. They really have no idea what they're messing with. Another scripture states (again paraphrasing) He works all things for the good for those that love Him and are called according to His purpose." Yes, there is something in control of this universe.

Sorry for the run on. Just a favorite subject of mine. Thanks again for the video. Even though it was short, it really made me think. And as usual, I think I think too much. Good to know you V... Now I have to figure out what natura nihil facit supervacanum means. I think it deals with nature moving slowly or something like that. I know it's Latin. I'll Google it...I love Google or at least what I can learn with it. Abundant blessings to you and yours, Puzzle

Originally posted by XxRagingxPandaxX
wow I really liked how this thread turned out, not a lot of trolling, not a lot of flames, you guys have all given good answers, and I thank you for that.



have a nice day

I'm curious as to what did you learn from this thread ?

Do you feel you are "missing something" by not having faith ?

reply to post by palg1

Hi, I always love hearing from someone that's in a place in life where they can continue to grow. I will never stop searching. It's a physiological thing with me....I'm not O neg. LOL

I do believe in god. I just really don't see him/her/it as I used to believe. I suppose one could say I see god as a force or consciousness that is in control of everything. And I see god as being everywhere...omnipresent and since god is everywhere that means god is in everything. I do believe in Yahoshua (Jesus). I've done a lot of study of the bible over the years. There is more to that book than we can know. The bloodlines of the Nephilim and that of Jesus are, IMHO, central to what the book is about. When one gets into tracing the bloodlines according to both Joseph and the legal/royal right to rule and Mary having the true blood, it's absolutely fascinating when you consider all the laws that were put in place concerning marriage and the deaths of spouses. Just this alone tells me someone was controlling things. It really is phenomenal. I don't believe I am a god, but rather a part of god is in me. God controls all of the universe by the laws he has put in place, many which depend on our own choices in life. That can be the tough part for us when things go bad. Accepting our own responsibility for things is tough to do....at least it is for me. I'd like for god to show me love by keeping me happy all the time by not allowing bad things to happen.

Anyway, I keep putting off going to bed tonight. I read something that was posted and now I can't find it. I tend to be tenacious when my mind is set on something. The person sounded like they were struggling with why a supposed loving god allows bad things to happen. I think they were saying to the OP that because god allows so much pain and suffering he is evil. Anyway, I read a book this past year called "When Bad Things Happen to Good People." by Harold Kushner. He is a Jewish rabbi that was faced with a terrible disease striking his young son years ago. I got more out of that book than any book I've ever read and I have read a lot of books. It really helped me know why god has to stand back and allow certain things to happen. AGGH....I have to get some sleep. Good to know you palg1. Blessings, Puzzle