A question I have towards all religious people!

Originally posted by amc621To me ALL religions have been started by some guy or guys who wanted others to do things they way they wanted them to.

Let me suggest that the people who received the initial Revelations did not use God for their own purposes.

That did not happen until the arrival of the theologians.

The difference between those who receive Revelations and the theologians is precisely the same difference as between the non-dualistic consciousness and the dualistic consciousness.

Consciousness is the source of that contradiction and conflict.

Mi cha el

reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxX


I wonder if you believe there is evidence for reincarnation. Actually there seems to be enormous amount of evidence for this, simply based on the stories that have been told. And from such evidence, if I believe in reincarnation, am I being religious? I don't have to believe in any deity to believe in reincarnation.

reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxX


XxRagingxPandaxX, I am religious in the way I believe in the creator and his son the Lamb Jesus Christ. I believe that yes religion can be turned into a negative meens to direct the masses. The thing is even tho many religions are now embedded with negative entities, many people still of all religions seek guidence from them as a way to better themselves. This is why I personally respect most religions such as Christianity-Islam-Buddhisim-and any other positive based religions trying to HELP the masses. Because they attemt to help people out spiritually in their time they spend here on a confusing Earth full of maddness. Life is hard down on Earth and many dont know where to look for spiritual and mental support so many cling to religion ( in a belief of a all mighty 1 who oversees their development spiritually and rewards them for doing their best.. When I discovered that there were text written in the great book the Bible that had been extracted from other ancient religions. I kind of felt betrayed by the knowledge I uncovered, but my intelligence allowed me to see that just because this is true and the authors of the Bible may have taken information from ancient text. The good thing is the data still managed to be passed down the line, so I embraced some more of my learning instead of becomming fully enraged by the fact that it was never told to me or many that we were learning from more ancient religions. So now today you have a planet full of people who REALLY try to make sense out of the current reality which is LIFE and when they feel how evil it is they tend to accept ok something is very wrong and seems evil. And since this evil exist there must be a good to balance which in turn helps fuel the religious desire...

S&F

I grew up in the Catholic church. I was baptised before I was even a month old. I was confirmed at the age of 13. And thennnnn.... I began going to a Baptist church with my dad. I then started visiting other churches. Pentecostal, Church of Christ, Greek Orthodox, etc. It was at this point I decided to study other major world religions and I delved head-first into Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Druidism, Shamanism, Geomancy.

I came to the conclusion that I didn't neccessarily believe in any of these and I remained on the fence by calling myself 'Agnostic.' I did so for years and was afraid to tell anyone but my wife that I was Agnostic. After some time I began feeling tiresome of hiding who I was and so I told my family why I no longer practiced praying as they did at supper and funerals. I was already the black sheep of the family, but now I was a black sheep in a different pasture.

Some more time went on and I realized I was only lying to myself by pretending to be Agnostic. I didn't just "not know" if God existed, I was really an Atheist. I don't believe in God. The more I live my life free of the shackles of religion, the more I can see what a binding and torturous effect it has on those I love and even those I loathe. My father is probably the most "religious" person I know and he's insufferable. He disowned my homosexual brother for that very reason. I'm not going to make this all about one person (My father), because this is a rather expansive occurrence.

I suppose in summation I will depart with a bit of a rhetorical quesion.

If one person says they hear a voice in their head that tells them what to do, we would consider them crazy. If many people say they hear a voice (individually), wouldn't that make them all crazy or at least mass dillusional?


Bye

reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxX


I can't say my religion is the truth and I cannot force it on anyone else.
I cannot make anyone believe it.

Religion is by it's very nature, personal.

Religion doesn't make practical sense. It makes spiritual sense.

There is a lot to a person that cannot be explained by science.
I know science doesn't always back me up on this but science is not supposed to either.
It must remain hard, cold, dispassionate, unbiased and scientific.
This does not mean I have to be.
I am not a rock...though there may be some disagreement there.

We all know...at least I did and maybe some others, from our earliest thoughts and beginnings on the planet... there is more to us than meets the eye. We are also a thought bubble, a dialogue box, a memory chip, a spirit being and we exist beyond the physical plane we are in now.

My first waking thought was "I made it."
I remember looking down at my legs and carpet burned black knees thinking "soon I will be able to use the leg appendages better and walk like the rest of them. Look at all I have been able to accomplish with my arms."
I remember when I learned to use each part of my body and first crawled and then stood up grabbing onto furniture. I saw a ruffled doily with a remarkable blue ashtray in a melted record design and a pack of cigarettes with a Bulls Eye/Target on it. I did not care to touch them at that time.
I remember being otherwise occupied with the standing...almost walking and I quickly moved toward the edge of the couch and grabbed it... hauling myself along, thrilled with this progress.

Before all of that, I remember being flat on my back with only some fingers, feet and a tongue for company. Truly the tongue had a mind of its own and was in charge of all the fingers and toes. She was "mother-tongue" like the General and my fingers and toes would report to her individually, 2 little armies of short/fat and tall/thin soldiers... for regular inspections and a washing!
This is a baby thinking... until it was explained, this story would have to do.
I remember imagining, even knowing I was imagining.

So we are sentient beings and not quite like the other biological entities, plants and animals around us. Whatever they all have we seem to have ONE MORE POWER.
My dog reacted to me and not the reverse. At 2, I was master of a beast 3 times my size, whose ears and tail I would mercilessly pull, not from meanness but to get Pepper to follow.

This is why in later years during "religious instruction" when I was told I was the pinnacle of creation... I believed it. Later my science classes pretty much confirmed it.
Now what did we do to deserve all this attention?

All religions hold a seed of an explanation. None of them are the exact truth, they can't be. It is almost impossible.
Although ALL of them can, in part, be true.
This is the only sane way to view religion, if you ask me. And you did. (smiley face here)

Now what part is true?

We are connected to something outside this, matter of fact, material world.
It is human-friendly, has a sense of humor, aims to please and is a bitch when it gets angry. Can topple Kings perform miracles, and caress you in a soft wind smelling like lilacs.

You just have to believe...have patience...and wait.
Like a dog with a biscuit on his nose.
Yes, it is like that. Exactly like that.
Odd and unbelievable but do it anyway and you will get that pat on the head you deserve.

Love and compassion are necessary in this world. You don't have to believe in God to posses these traits but I think they are required (for evolutionary progress to be gained) by the entity or whatever god-consciousness is responsible for creating us and all the good stuff in nature and on the planet.
In another post I mention when I am viewing natural surroundings, mountains or oceans, flowers trees and food, God seems to boast and say "Look how great I AM. Look at what I can do! Look what I have created ...for you"

And in animals eyes..."Respect me and deal with me wisely and kindly - because I am only another of your many gift's from God"

I understand and "get" these messages fluently.
Others will follow and say I am hearing things or delusional.

There are the viscous and heartless who, to every "compassion for animals" or vegan post, reply they really enjoy steaks and ribs...one guy told me he hoped they have them in the after life. And the guns...don't get me started...
Others among them say compassion is a crutch, charity is for suckers, the needy are lazy and worthless since they will not help themselves.
Where have the philanthropists and altruists gone? Gone atheist.
If you are "blessed" you have to share it with others - if you do not subscribe to the belief "luck" is a blessing....you do not have to share.
Do you know how many times I have heard Americans say..."Why don't those people move out of the desert and closer to the drinking water?" They do not seem to remember where you are born for the first 20 years...is where you stay...this is your life.

And I have to say...If you are not getting these same messages out of the magnificence of nature, sunsets and waterfalls, if you are not feeling compassion toward your fellow man- foreign, ignorant, poor or fool...if you are not empathetic and relating to the beasts, loving the trees and hating waste, death and destruction on Earth...(Think of the movie Avatar)

.... DNA identical or not....maybe we ARE of different Gods.

AND... I think this is MY PLANET,
more than that, custom made for me and my kind...
so, if you don't mind....
move along.

Get off to Mars...
or wherever you were planning to attach yourself to, and bleed dry, next.

And I am speaking to the conscienceless human/earth/ocean/animal/forest/life killers and polluters Panda, ...not to atheists, nor to you who simply asked a question.

reply to post by SkyBluePegasus

Non-violence, compassion, a fair sense of justice, no-interference aren't Christian values. They are human values.

They are the values of SOME humans. Some societies don't see any problem with killing and eating another human, provided that they are the member of a different tribe.

Sharia law is a group of rules embraced by a segment of one religious group. I don't find anything very fair about a wife being stoned to death for a crime that will cause the husband a slight amount of ridicule if he breaks the same law. That group of Muslims are still human, with human values, albeit quite different values than you would seem to care for.

Originally posted by SkyBluePegasus

Non-violence, compassion, a fair sense of justice, no-interference aren't Christian values.

I can tell you don't get out much...

Values are taught, not inherent.

reply to post by DISRAELI


are you saying that I trust my senses because of faith ?

my hearing is because of faith , my smell because of faith , my sight and touch because of faith.
I think not !

reply to post by Michael Cecil


Interesting, now I thought conciousness was the state of play, while the ID and super ego were where we can be the real you.

I think your wrong about the theologians, the revelations were written, not given, because they needed something to elevate them around their societey.

Originally posted by XxRagingxPandaxX
My question is how can you be religious? I mean, not having any concrete facts to support your religion only faith. What makes your religion so much more credible than another? There all supported by the same thing, faith.

my beliefs are personal. I believe them to be right, but I have no right to tell anyone else their beliefs are wrong just because they aren't exactly like mine. hell, they might be right and I might be wrong. But since I have FAITH that I am on the right path, I stay there.Your heart is the only thing that knows the real truth. You can say anything to fit into a nice little box. But when you stand naked and alone before the judge supreme, the only words that will matter will be said to you. It's only your business what those words will be.

I have seen enough in my life to know beyond a doubt that my God exists. Others may not have. But it's not anybodys job to force them to believe. Only that individual can make that decision. (IMHO)

Well, the reason why i have faith and found Jesus Christ and am a Christian and all, is because i used to be involved in the Occult, and the things i have seen, heard and felt happen to me are very real and very frightening and the only way i got out of all of that and had all of that stuff get out of my life is through my faith and acceptance in Jesus Christ! there we go, long story short!!

Originally posted by XxRagingxPandaxX
First off i'd like to say that this is my 100th thread, if anyone cares

. Also i'd like to say that this thread is not meant to be confrintational, i'm just trying to find the truth. My question is how can you be religious? I mean, not having any concrete facts to support your religion only faith. What makes your religion so much more credible than another? There all supported by the same thing, faith.

Faith and religion is one thing. Spirituality is an entirely different concept. Religion is more of a psychological tool, whereas spirituality is the harnessing of the things we can't really explain through science or religion.

Kundalini is a good start towards supporting a spiritual foundation. The sacred fire will make a believer (or lunatic, depending on mental stability) out of anyone, regardless of religion and faith. Don't knock it until you try it. You have no idea what you're missing. In fact, your life hasn't even started until you've realized the potential of the treasures hidden inside you (for most people, this probably doesn't happen until they are "dead.")

So to answer your question: how can I be religious? I'm not. In fact religion's only purpose to me is educational (all religions included), but I'm very spiritual. I'm convinced spirituality and rationality is the only way one can actually open their eyes to witness the awesome that lies ahead.

I would like to say that I know God is real because...

I was in situations twice in my life (and I am no young chicken) where I had no way out. I prayed specifically about what I, as a human being, needed to get out of them.

I will not call them miracles. I will call them answered prayers. In order for them to be answered, someone had to hear them. They were simply things no human being could give.

That's how I know. Many people who believe have experienced answered prayers. They just don't know it.

The rationality that humanity has come to depend on was not always so well understood, surely you would not say that the majority of those in the dark ages fully understood what reason was, but people were still able to rely on it to a certain extent even if they didn't understand it enough to eloquate a name for it. I feel faith, intuition, whatever you want to call it, is a similar mental process we simply haven't grown to understand yet but is every bit as relevant for understanding the nature of existence as rationality is.

reply to post by Puzzlemaniac


Here's an interesting clip. It is an old interview of Jung, and the reporter asks whether Jung believes in god.



-v

Originally posted by XxRagingxPandaxX
First off i'd like to say that this is my 100th thread, if anyone cares

. Also i'd like to say that this thread is not meant to be confrintational, i'm just trying to find the truth. My question is how can you be religious? I mean, not having any concrete facts to support your religion only faith. What makes your religion so much more credible than another? There all supported by the same thing, faith.

I'm Pagan. I don't think my religion is any more credible than anyone else's. I just happen to like my deities and the ethics of my religion better.

reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxX


Congrads on your 100th thread Panda.

I am not religious. I do not follow any set mandated dogma.

I am however spiritual and believe that to do kindness, be just, truthful and honest towards others is important.

Most (not all) religious people I have encountered are hypocritical, closed minded and down right mean if you don't believe as they feel you should believe. The fanatical Christians are just like the fanatical Muslims. So many wars, so much torture, murder and horror from "religious wars" all in the many names of "god".

We are all like drops of water and "god" is the ocean. That is why when you hurt/harm another by action, thought or deed you are truely also hurting yourself.

But, people just seem to keep holding onto primitive ideas and refuse to research, clinging to outdated and antiquated mindsets.

Once mankind throws off the mantle of religious dogma and embraces true spirituality we will finally grow up as a species.

I am religious and it's really funny how people anti religous somehow always have an obsession with blaming everyone for troubles in the world. Why don't you look at human nature? Of all things that are divisive, religion is a small piece when compared to culture(which is ultimately based on religion, but there is an American culture, European, Arabic, African etc)!

If you want religion to end it won't really affect the world at all for all the different cultures in the world is the BIG thing, you can't stop culture either, with culture comes pride and with pride comes war, with power comes money not religion. And separatism has nothing to do with religion, it's culture and how it's in our human nature to have pride. An example of this, seeing as this is an American site and a majority of it's users are American a lot of threads are by Americans that believe that the world revolves around them. Just like some South Africans do...

It's ego not religion, mocking religion is part of the problem too.

my faith is based on facts, Buddhism's main premise is that life is composed of temporary moments connected together through dependent origination and that the nature of these moments is primarily suffering. Can you refute this claim?

I've been reading ATS for a while on and off, but somehow it was this thread that made me create an account. So, lemme first say that I that I'm in this to try to contribute to a solid discussion, not to try to derail it. I'm a pretty down-to-earth guy and I'm not trying to browbeat anyone. Felt I had to say that cause I've been through threads like these before and they can turn quickly because of emotions... but having said that, allow me to grab my soapbox.

I grew up catholic and was a 'sunday christian'. I knew there had to be more to God that I was getting from the church, but didn't know where to find it and hey the world seemed interesting enough to hold my attention anyways. All I took from the Roman Catholic church was sit down, stand up, kneel down, go to confession once in a while, and be a good boy. That's religion. Nowhere in the bible does it teach salvation by your own merit or works, but this is what I was taught. So on I went for years while praying at night for God to show me what He wants for me.

When I was 19 I went to a baptist church with friends and they presented the real gospel message to me in no uncertain terms: Accept Jesus' sacrifice as having paid your debt in full, ie; accept Him as your savior, and choose to live your life for Him. Simple. No religious ceremony, no trial by fire... Just Christ loves me enough to have sacrificed himself to redeem me.. while I was still a sinner.. Not because of anything I've done, but because He loves me. They didn't ask for money, they didn't take up an offering or even ask people to join their church, in fact I've never been back there... it just wasn't about that. It was about a personal relationship with the creator of heaven and earth. So, I took it. With every fibre in my body I knew that it was exactly what I needed. That was 10 years ago.

I'm still not perfect, and I won't be this side of heaven. But, that's ok because God doesn't expect me to be.. Christ paid my debt and now I enjoy a life enriched with knowing that I have a friend in Jesus. My bible says (btw I read the NLT, which was translated to modern english from the source. It's not a translation of a translation, etc).. that when we accept Jesus as savior, we are created anew and He lives within us. I can tell you that I can feel Him. Every moment I can feel His love for me. I'm talking about knowing that you know that you are loved and redeemed. It is not comparable to anything I've experienced before I was saved. My life has never been the same. My priorities have changed and my focus has shifted from living selfishly to trying to live selflessly, and showing Christ's love to others through daily actions of kindness. I'm just an animator, a normal guy with a normal life… who was I for God to care about? I didn't do anything to deserve salvation but He offers it freely to anyone who will reach out and grab it. How can I not? However, the world forever sees us as nutters, but I'm fine with that... that's not my problem, that's God's.

Instead, God deliberately chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose those who are powerless to shame those who are powerful. (1 Corinthians 1:27 NLT) (read the rest here: www.biblestudytools.com... )

So it doesn't surprise me that the world follows the man-made religions. It doesn't surprise me that the world associates me with 'religious', even though that has nothing to do with my faith. And it doesn't surprise me that the world is not finding answers that suit them and is moving towards the one-world religion outlined in bible prophecy. People today are striving for a standard that appeals to everyone, but God's salvation plan is not politically correct. The Pope is preaching that there are more ways to salvation than Christ.. but somebody needs to get that man a bible. Clearly he is making it up as he goes along.

There's a really good list that I've seen on another forum: rr-bb.com...!.

I think it goes along with everything I'm talking about. This is not a list of ALL bible prophecy which has come true, but it sure is a good read. It's verifiable, so have some fun with that and come to your own conclusions about the validity of the bible.