2nd American Civil War theory

I speculate that a second American revolution will not take place. I believe that a 2nd American civil war is very possible and may be imminent. I speculate that it will be the midwestern central states (anti Fed) against the East and West coastal states(Pro Fed) based off of their current political affiliations and policies. My question is which states will be on which side? Who and why?

Its just speculation and others may disagree with my theory but please humor me and flirt with the idea.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by AzoriaCorp]

reply to post by AzoriaCorp

That's one way the collapse could go down. It may in fact be the most orderly possible way. It would occur only if there's still enough life and balls left in the states to resist the rapid increase in Federal tyranny that will occur as everything starts going belly up.

And truth be told, it sure beats general economic collapse followed by autocratic rule and involving genocide when the rulers realize they can't feed everybody (if they even care).

Either way, there's going to be some major #ing carnage. Stay tuned, America!

The second american civil war will last about as long as it will take to realize that the cable tv is down, the 7/11 is closed and David Letterman is boycotting untill the hositilites end.

The only way the internet gets shut down is if an American Revolution against the Government starts. If you get rid of the internet, you get rid of long distance planning and you reduce people to being locally insecure of their patriotic decisions. Honestly, i hear about people being secretly kidnapped in the middle of the night before this starts though.

This will never happen in the current state of affairs. reason being the states are well connected the federal government has all the control now (D.C) in the blink of an eye they could in fact shut the entire states economic resourses down cut off all ties to the media including internet, phone lines, news networks from the part that your at war with ofcourse the local would most likely still work but consider even 1,000,000 without access to their money, internet access, television, there would be riots the likes we've never seen it would throw the entire country into chaos. people would survive afew days without their money or power if they were reassured it would all be back online but with everything cut off from the national treasury pretty soon there would be alot of angry people and the government just wouldnt allow that under any circumstance (not counting sabatoge from terrorist or another country.)

Originally posted by Tahuti
This will never happen in the current state of affairs. reason being the states are well connected the federal government has all the control now (D.C) in the blink of an eye they could in fact shut the entire states economic resourses down cut off all ties to the media including internet, phone lines, news networks from the part that your at war with ofcourse the local would most likely still work but consider even 1,000,000 without access to their money, internet access, television, there would be riots the likes we've never seen it would throw the entire country into chaos. people would survive afew days without their money or power if they were reassured it would all be back online but with everything cut off from the national treasury pretty soon there would be alot of angry people and the government just wouldnt allow that under any circumstance (not counting sabatoge from terrorist or another country.)

Thats not entirely true. If the people of the central midwestern states STOP paying their Federal taxes and only fund the State's goals once a decision of war is announced in those said states' governments, the war effort stands a good chance. The PEOPLE lend the government money and power. Not the other way around. If the people of said states want a war bad enough, they can do it.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by AzoriaCorp]

I'm curious to know why you think this would happen and how it might play out?
Not that I disagree, I just would like you to elaborate please.

reply to post by AzoriaCorp


by the time that gets aranged and funds transfered and built up enough it would be too late, the economic disaster would already be done it would put the states in worse than the great depression. think of all the work that requires to be out of state, planes, busses, trains, they would be shut down if there was war no one would be allowed to travel much it would take a great undertaking just to keep businesses afloat and even tighter security than we have now one plane from an enemy state could take out thats states central of government.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I'm curious to know why you think this would happen and how it might play out?
Not that I disagree, I just would like you to elaborate please.

Here is an example. The Dark grey states would be the Pro Fed states and the light grey would be the anti Fed. The white would be neutral or undecided till later in the war. The central mid west states have very different views on how America should be. They are very religiously oriented, pro gun rights, and against illegal immigration. They want small government and more freedoms; As opposed to the coastal states who are more pro big government welfare states that are against gun ownership and undermine religious ethics such as gay marriage. When things in the US start melting down and slipping into chaos because of bad governement policies and corruption, states they will be begin to choose sides as the Fed begins to step in with severe rights and freedom violations in order to "save the country."

The coastal states will side with the Fed as they prefer large Federal loans. welfare, and other socialistic policies. And the central states will oppose demanding religious values to be respected and gun rights to be protected as well as other freedoms. Much more plays into it other than just left or right wing. Its geopolitical as well. The East coast is all corporate and about money, which favors big government. The West coast favors and even embraces mass immigration and many illegals will easily thrive there as they are welfare states. The bottom line is these people will fight to protect their system. The central states will fight to protect their way of life and thus the coastal states will as well. The nation is split on much of the heavy policies in the US almost 50/50. It hasnt really been this way since the 1860s and we all know what happened then.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by AzoriaCorp]

[edit on 20-8-2010 by AzoriaCorp]

Originally posted by Tahuti
reply to post by AzoriaCorp

 

by the time that gets aranged and funds transfered and built up enough it would be too late, the economic disaster would already be done it would put the states in worse than the great depression. think of all the work that requires to be out of state, planes, busses, trains, they would be shut down if there was war no one would be allowed to travel much it would take a great undertaking just to keep businesses afloat and even tighter security than we have now one plane from an enemy state could take out thats states central of government.

Highly doubtful as alot of the states would seize control of their national guards. And MANY militias would flood out from the wood work. Plus the civil war will break during the very beginnings of the financial collapse. You seem to under estimate the anger and pride the American people have. I hate to quote such a pop culture movie but its quite relevent.

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything- Tyler Durden Fight Club.

reply to post by AzoriaCorp

I don't foresee the lines drawn in the sand
where you make them. But the states will have
to make themselves self-reliant if they are
to stand a chance. And it's hard for them
on their current budgets to ween themselves
off the federal teet. But they are working on it
Notice all the state budget cuts recently
nationwide. They're tightening their belts
in anticipation



[edit on 20-8-2010 by boondock-saint]

reply to post by AzoriaCorp


lol
well I can't speak for the rest of the country
but I can speak for parts of NC.
That map is wrong.

NC was one of the first to secede
in the first CW. So mark NC off the Fed
list.

Oh and also mark VA off as well.
They're one of the ones whose
reps want the feds to sue them
over immigration law. They would
stand in line to secede. So there is some
speculation IMO with ur map

Wow, Mississippi a pro fed state? Laughable. They are the only state left with the Confederate St Andrews cross on their state flag, and rightly so. If this plays out, it will look very similar to the 1861 battle lines minus half of North Carolina and adding Missouri, Arizona, Montana and Idaho on the anti fed side, give or take a couple more.

I have lived in the South most of my life with family that fought the Federalist powers the first time around. I find it funny that the rest of the US is talking secession and civil war as a just right, but conveniently leaving out the "evil" Confederacy while doing so. This is not a new idea to us down here. There are people here, including me, who are still pissed at the United States government for sending the war criminals Sherman and Grant to murder thousands of civilians to enforce the Federal government boot on the South's throat for daring to leave. Linclon was a murderous war criminal that should have been shot. Oh yeah.

No, this time around if it happens, the South and the midwest will get it right. For starters, the civilians here have more guns than the Federalists, not to mention what units of the military will mutiny.

this is stupid. how are you gonna say only midwestern people would rise up against an oppressive government? that is kind of stupid because people from all over the country know what is going on not just people in militias in michigan. what is wrong with some people? these maps are stupid since they never did a census for people likely to oppose the government. where did you get this crap? this whole thing reeks of bullsh*t.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by 2weird2live2rare2die]

Originally posted by 2weird2live2rare2die
this is stupid. how are you gonna say only midwestern people would rise up against an oppressive government? that is kind of stupid because people from all over the country know what is going on not just people in militias in michigan. what is wrong with some people? these maps are stupid since they never did a census for people likely to oppose the government. where did you get this crap? this whole thing reeks of bullsh*t.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by 2weird2live2rare2die]

Whoa, chill there sparky. I never said just midwestern people. This is just an estimate based off of an opinion. Note, I said if you DISAGREE try to flirt with the idea. The topic is not whether you agree or not. Its to speculate the outcome or events that would occur IF this were to happen.

Originally posted by shai hulud
Wow, Mississippi a pro fed state? Laughable. They are the only state left with the Confederate St Andrews cross on their state flag, and rightly so. If this plays out, it will look very similar to the 1861 battle lines minus half of North Carolina and adding Missouri, Arizona, Montana and Idaho on the anti fed side, give or take a couple more.

I have lived in the South most of my life with family that fought the Federalist powers the first time around. I find it funny that the rest of the US is talking secession and civil war as a just right, but conveniently leaving out the "evil" Confederacy while doing so. This is not a new idea to us down here. There are people here, including me, who are still pissed at the United States government for sending the war criminals Sherman and Grant to murder thousands of civilians to enforce the Federal government boot on the South's throat for daring to leave. Linclon was a murderous war criminal that should have been shot. Oh yeah.

No, this time around if it happens, the South and the midwest will get it right. For starters, the civilians here have more guns than the Federalists, not to mention what units of the military will mutiny.

You misread the map. Mississippi IS listed as anti Fed

I think Tahuti has it right. A "war" between states today is not really possible, the Federal gov has tremendous power and control.

BUT, obviously anything can happen if something occurred that put the Federal government off-balance, or they became preoccupied, whether it was due to serious economic turmoil, or an outside attack.

If something severe enough happened, I would then tend to wonder if it was still part of a greater plan. We might come to believe that things just happened the way they did, but all along there might have been a guiding hand.

Some may have heard that the entire world was "divided" a long time ago, into what our masters thought made more sense, than the current relatively "arbitrary" borders of nations. If, for example, the Southeastern USA was logically considered to be a reasonable "nation" of sorts, then it could be designated a "zone" within a greater whole.

The interesting thing is that people within the various zones, might be largely in agreement with new arrangements, even if they trascended international borders.

The Pacific Northwest is an example some have used. Already, at the border of the US and Canada is Glacier International Peace Park. Does British Columbia "belong" more with Washington State, and Oregon, and Idaho, than it does with Quebec? Obviously. But where to draw these "logical" lines?

No, I don't necessarily agree with this future, but it may be coming, and it could easily play right into this notion of "civil" war", which could turn into mostly a PR campaign to rearrange things, so our masters will enjoy better control of the whole pie.

And yet, unforeseen things can certainly come into play. Our masters may think of themselves as "gods", but they're not, and can miscalculate.

One example where they almost blew it completely took place shortly after the War Between the States.

If we think of the USA as the "Great Masonic Experiment", a "New Atlantis" as Francis Bacon would have liked putting it, then what Lincoln did made perfect sense. It didn't matter if hundreds of thousands died, what mattered was that bigger plan, to "preserve the Union", in order to get to the day when the US would become the world's biggest power. It worked.

But "What if" something had gone wrong? No, I don't mean the South rising again, but directly after the "Civil" War, the armed forces were in bad shape. Cannons, ammunition, even horses, everything had been severely reduced post-war, and worse, people had little fight left in them. If they had some fight left, they wouldn't have put up with the ugly "Reconstruction" so timidly.

But way out West, a huge menace was building. No, it wasn't Mexico, or the Indians. It was that perhaps "unpredictable" thing...

It was the Mormons. Few realize that under the leadership of Brigham Young, this early American "nation" (called Deseret), grew to possess a well-equipped military force much larger than the US Army at the time. In fact, if you read about this precarious moment in history, the US had to accomplish some serious bluffing to make sure Young wouldn't literally march his forces on Washington.

Indeed the US Army (what was left of it) was sent to stop Young, but it was being cut to pieces by effective Mormon guerrilla tactics hundreds of miles before they were going to arrive.

If Young had actually been confronted, instead of fooled, he would have easily seen that his forces were literally greater than any force on the continent at that time. Some historians seem to think his superior forces would have easily won a real "war", there was so little left to stop them. Not to mention, Young had "god" on his side, and his troops were prepared to die.

I only bring this up because TPTB do not always think of everything. While in the above case they succeeded in putting the South down, they failed to account for a religious group that could have changed history.

Such a thing could happen again, in some unforeseen manner.

Just some things to think about.

JR

reply to post by 2weird2live2rare2die


It's relevant because do you think states like Kalifornia or the Peoples Republik of Massachusetts, among other New England states, will do anything to curb the flood of Federal oppression if they had the chance? They are cutting off water to the Napa valley for a fish while one of the most fertile grounds in the country goes dry, and what do they do? Vote in MORE government regulations.
2+2 IS sometimes 4.

The cultural divide between the majority of the Northeast, West coast and the South and Midwest is immense. On one side you have a huge mistrust of anything Federal in some states and on the other you have almost a cult like mindset ito the government in the rest.

reply to post by AzoriaCorp


i would just like to know where you got your info, because it is retarded. my state is listed as neutral and believe me it is about as anti-fed as it gets. it would be hard to know people's real feelings on this matter as it is a view most probably keep private.

reply to post by AzoriaCorp


My apologies. After further review,if war would break out, the South would be a solid front, minus half of Florida more than likely. Georgia South Carolina and Alabama would be some of the first to leave