2nd American Civil War theory

reply to post by shai hulud


that doesn't make sense, can't you see that? people in different states have many different views on politics and government. a civil war wouldn't be like november elections.. do you honestly think the pro government people would die to protect the governments interests? kill other americans maybe even family members over the government? that is doubtful. this whole thread is retarded.

A 2nd Civil War is not possible and will never occur.

State Governments DO NOT have the "Minerals" to take this on. Look how the Gulf States responded to the oil disaster. Cowed down to the Feds and allowed their states to be ruined. Nothing could be done to save the water, but sand burms could have saved the coast. The Feds said no and the states obeyed. But not only obeyed they supplied the man power to enforce the Feds rule.

Our nation is lost, we are already under the control of a shadow World Government and the states have helped this occur. Take a look at Texas and the NAFTA highway it is not stopped the construction continues.

Look at any state and see the Federal control over the Police, Media, you name it, the Feds control all.

Welcome to the Police State Comrade.

reply to post by 2weird2live2rare2die


You do realize this has happened before not in our too distant past? You do realize people slaughtered each other in the thousands over just states honor let alone differences in politics right? It may not happen overnight, but when you start starving people, aressting this group and not that group, turning out the power and allowing the infrastructres to crumble, that thin viel of civility between groups of people or states will vanish.

Originally posted by 2weird2live2rare2die
reply to post by AzoriaCorp

 

i would just like to know where you got your info, because it is retarded. my state is listed as neutral and believe me it is about as anti-fed as it gets. it would be hard to know people's real feelings on this matter as it is a view most probably keep private.

Bro, your taking this way too personal. The map was just an example based on MY opinion. I, in no way, stated this is fact and undeniable. I clearly stated in the OP that i was asking for OTHERS input on the matter. If you dont like the map, change it. THAT is what i originally asked for. Who would be on which side and why? Political views should not be kept private. It should be voiced for it is the American way to do so. 1st Amendment brother.

If there is to be another civil war scenario in this country, in the foreseeable future, and about the issues presented in your theory, I do not see geography working into it the way you describe.

If!

I think it would involve a fracturing on community levels. Literally a war of the "sides of the track" - the "have nots" attacking the "haves".

I just don't see it as a military scenario in any real sense of the word, but rather as a nationwide, fairly spontaneous riot. A short lived and vicious spasm of violence.

But I haven't put a ton of thought into it and this is just my off-the-top idea.

Since history repeats itself, I see the 2nd revolution happening similarly to the original one. The government will keep pressing and pressing until people take up arms to put an end to the tyranny.

I'm shocked it hasn't already happened considering we are under far more tyranny from DC than the FF were from the British. Obviously the Americans of today are not of the same mettle as those who birthed the nation.

Originally posted by Hefficide

I just don't see it as a military scenario in any real sense of the word, but rather as a nationwide, fairly spontaneous riot. A short lived and vicious spasm of violence.

if this did happen a spontaneous nationwide riot that is shortlived did happen with no outcome that would be bennifical to the united states (i know you didnt say it wouldnt be but anything that short lived wouldnt have major reprecutions it takes time to win a war there would just be alot of cleanup) did happen i honestly think i would lose what little respect i have left for america if we gave in so quickly it would be just like a child throwing a tempertantrum and breaking something, atleast imo.

Originally posted by Hefficide

If there is to be another civil war scenario in this country, in the foreseeable future, and about the issues presented in your theory, I do not see geography working into it the way you describe.

If!

I think it would involve a fracturing on community levels. Literally a war of the "sides of the track" - the "have nots" attacking the "haves".

I just don't see it as a military scenario in any real sense of the word, but rather as a nationwide, fairly spontaneous riot. A short lived and vicious spasm of violence.

But I haven't put a ton of thought into it and this is just my off-the-top idea.

Yes i somewhat agree. There will be mass riots and random widespread violence but if you study civil war history in the US, thats just happening in the side lines. The REAL conflict was the war with the states. I really do believe that an organized military conflict will occur once things in America begin to fall apart completely. There is already talk of dissention among many top military officials. Even high ranking generals.

reply to post by AzoriaCorp


Thanks for replying. I agree with you in general but something struck me - I live in Virgina, and during the Civil War the western part of Virginia actually seceeded from Virgina and became West Virginia.
I could forsee a similar situation occurring again because Northern Virginia and the Coastal portion are heavily Federalized while the western portions are actually more individualistic, pro-gun, anti-immigration etc. Virginia could get split yet again!

Just wanted to add that last night I thought of what could actually trigger just such an event. What if Obama declared amnesty for all the 15-20 million illegals just like Reagan did for 3 million during the 80's? I could see the illegals and hispanics getting carried away celebrating and a riot occurring. Like when the South LA riots broke out other cities across the US got pretty restless too. Only this time it would trigger mass protests and possible riots across the nation.
Just my 2 cents worth.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by Asktheanimals]

I think you guys are missing one BIG and ugly part of this situation. Without a doubt, if society breaks down and civil war breaks out, it will have a racial component. Only the very naive will think it will happen otherwise. If the Federal system falls and the military is stretched thin trying to tame the "heathen" abroad as well as trying to hold the system together, you will see an attempt to grab Aztland when they know the US will have not the manpower to stop it. The South will have problems between the blacks and whites, because I doubt very seriously both parties will see eye to eye. They rarely do down here. Also there is a movement now, small as it may be, to open up a Northwest Front for a white only homeland.

All these things are situations that must be considered. If you cannot get races to vote together as a whole, you can bet they are not going to fight together to save or dismantle the nation. It will be similar to what happens when someone goes to prison. Nature takes over and you seek out your own race for protection. Like it or not, this will happen.

Originally posted by 2weird2live2rare2die
reply to post by shai hulud

 

that doesn't make sense, can't you see that? people in different states have many different views on politics and government. a civil war wouldn't be like november elections.. do you honestly think the pro government people would die to protect the governments interests? kill other americans maybe even family members over the government? that is doubtful. this whole thread is retarded.

Im wondering if your just a troll. Especially since your displaying the all seeing eye as your avatar. Plus your trying to turn this thread into a fact or fiction. Its a theory to discuss, nothing more. Further more, you need to tone down your wild accusations and emotional attachment to the topic. If it offends, then leave.

No others are going to just fight for whatever the gov says and the gov's interest. They are going to fight for themselves, their own interests, and the Fed is going to help enforce the policies in which the pro gov states embrace. Policies being welfare, social medicine, gun control, immigration, and bailouts. The welfare states, one being California, love the Fed because they can absorb all the state funds through corruption and beg the Fed for funds to save their necks from being lynched. Plus alot of people of those states love handouts (which are usually federally funded) and dont like contributing back into the system. Those people will fight for their free handouts AKA FED GOV!!

PS also, the Fed will try to win over states by playing the race card against their opponents. It was done in the last civil war, they are doing it now...

[edit on 20-8-2010 by AzoriaCorp]



[edit on 20-8-2010 by AzoriaCorp]

Originally posted by AzoriaCorp

Originally posted by Tahuti
This will never happen in the current state of affairs. reason being the states are well connected the federal government has all the control now (D.C) in the blink of an eye they could in fact shut the entire states economic resourses down cut off all ties to the media including internet, phone lines, news networks from the part that your at war with ofcourse the local would most likely still work but consider even 1,000,000 without access to their money, internet access, television, there would be riots the likes we've never seen it would throw the entire country into chaos. people would survive afew days without their money or power if they were reassured it would all be back online but with everything cut off from the national treasury pretty soon there would be alot of angry people and the government just wouldnt allow that under any circumstance (not counting sabatoge from terrorist or another country.)

Thats not entirely true. If the people of the central midwestern states STOP paying their Federal taxes and only fund the State's goals once a decision of war is announced in those said states' governments, the war effort stands a good chance. The PEOPLE lend the government money and power. Not the other way around. If the people of said states want a war bad enough, they can do it.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by AzoriaCorp]

I love these types of comments... if someone can please show me a way to stop paying federal taxes, I will be more than happy to your control subject as you determine if it will work or not. I do not mind mind being the experiment test case. Fact is, for myself and most blue collar workers, we do not pay taxes, we have taxes taken from us. When I get my paycheck, that money has already been deducted... by law. The only way the common man can stop paying taxes, is to get his employer to stop taking taxes, in which case the employer can be held liable... now what do you think the chances of that are?

Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by AzoriaCorp

Originally posted by Tahuti
This will never happen in the current state of affairs. reason being the states are well connected the federal government has all the control now (D.C) in the blink of an eye they could in fact shut the entire states economic resourses down cut off all ties to the media including internet, phone lines, news networks from the part that your at war with ofcourse the local would most likely still work but consider even 1,000,000 without access to their money, internet access, television, there would be riots the likes we've never seen it would throw the entire country into chaos. people would survive afew days without their money or power if they were reassured it would all be back online but with everything cut off from the national treasury pretty soon there would be alot of angry people and the government just wouldnt allow that under any circumstance (not counting sabatoge from terrorist or another country.)

Thats not entirely true. If the people of the central midwestern states STOP paying their Federal taxes and only fund the State's goals once a decision of war is announced in those said states' governments, the war effort stands a good chance. The PEOPLE lend the government money and power. Not the other way around. If the people of said states want a war bad enough, they can do it.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by AzoriaCorp]

I love these types of comments... if someone can please show me a way to stop paying federal taxes, I will be more than happy to your control subject as you determine if it will work or not. I do not mind mind being the experiment test case. Fact is, for myself and most blue collar workers, we do not pay taxes, we have taxes taken from us. When I get my paycheck, that money has already been deducted... by law. The only way the common man can stop paying taxes, is to get his employer to stop taking taxes, in which case the employer can be held liable... now what do you think the chances of that are?

What you fail to realize is that this civil war will not happen until the brink of destruction. Financial or otherwise. People will hesitate to the very end because war is ugly and relentless. But eventually, people will get over their fear and anger will fuel their motivation. When a man has no money to feed his family because of severe taxation through socialistic policies such as welfare programs, bailouts, and good ol government greed he will also lose his home, his security and most of all his hope. In which i doubt at this point he's paying any taxes... Then he finally sees his family freezing, starving to death in a wet cardboard box, he may want to hold those responsible. Dont under estimate desperate people during desperate times. And, without a doubt, desperate times are just around the corner and there are ALREADY desperate people now, and there are 200 million Americans that may BECOME desperate in these desperate times, and they are ARMED to the TEETH. The true American patriot is not extinct. Not yet.



[edit on 20-8-2010 by AzoriaCorp]

reply to post by bozzchem


when we birthed the nation we didn't have a militarized police force, thousands of maximum security prisons, and a nationwide crime database where every police force and government agency is essentially connected.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by 2weird2live2rare2die]

i will say when this does happen and it will it will be a bloody mess, now how will it start ? It has already started, the first one tarted back in 1858, this one started in 2008, the first shots were when? 1861, at the fort Sumter, no shots have been fired yet.

AZ is the fuse for the Gov lacked to act on the sates be half. will there be a car going off? Cold it be the LEO's on there own being gun downed?

When the first blood is shed it will be like wild fire it will spread all through the sates any and all groups will be for them self's, not like it was when we had to sides, north and south ,no this will be the death of a nation and will leave us open to an invasion, for there are groups out there waiting watching for this to happen.

Now if we put them a side, this then is how it could take place; AZ tells the gov good by. TX,NM join the southern states that still have unfinished bis, they to tell the gov to bite the big one,UT, NV,WA, OR, and ID, MT. join in with AZ.

CA is on it's own the gov A. S. tells his people not to fight, it is none or our concern, we will be our own state/ nation, and i ask that you vote for me, to be your leader.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by bekod]

Originally posted by bekod
i will say when this does happen and it will it will be a bloody mess, now how will it start ? It has already started, the first one tarted back in 1858, this one started in 2008, the first shots were when? 1861, at the fort Sumter, no shots have been fired yet.

AZ is the fuse for the Gov lacked to act on the sates be half. will there be a car going off? Cold it be the LEO's on there own being gun downed?

When the first blood is shed it will be like wild fire it will spread all through the sates any and all groups will be for them self's, not like it was when we had to sides, north and south ,no this will be the death of a nation and will leave us open to an invasion, for there are groups out there waiting watching for this to happen.

Now if we put them a side, this then is how it could take place; AZ tells the gov good by. TX,NM join the southern states that still have unfinished bis, they to tell the gov to bite the big one,UT, NV,WA, OR, and ID, MT. join in with AZ.

CA is on it's own the gov A. S. tells his people not to fight, it is none or our concern, we will be our own state/ nation, and i ask that you vote for me, to be your leader.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by bekod]

I like your thinking. very constructive but a bit hard to grasp. California is such a mess, i cant imagine them surviving on their own. No country is crazy enough to invade us during a civil war. That would only unify us and they would be ultimately defeated. and no, they wont nuke us, that would be a waste and counter productive. America is valuable for its citizens. Laborers and taxes. Plus our agriculture. America is the biggest exporter of food. If they nuked America, it would be worthless. A worthless pile of charred rock. Plus resources wouldnt be attainable such as oil due to the nuclear fall out. I truly believe countries would rather sit back and watch to see who wins. THEN try to make friends with the winning side.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by AzoriaCorp]

I have long expected California to split into North California and South California. Which would probably be a good thing since the state is bankrupt.

What do you think of the Trans-Texas Highway Corridor? Do you think it will be built/finished? Because mid-west states like us must be prepared for the nation to want to tap the Great Lakes for water for everyone. I think that is what the war will mostly be about - fresh water.

reply to post by bekod


I agree. Georgia is about to elect Nathan Deal as the next governor. Sound familiar? He's the guy that called out Obama on the House floor questioning his citizenship. He is also going to implement the 287(g) program that is tougher than AZ "feds be damned" as he said. Since his only opponent is former Gov Roy Barnes, who is ten points behind and is hated for taking the Confederate battle flag off the state flag, it looks as though we shall be in for some interesting times in this state.

reply to post by shai hulud

yes i agree, the flint has been struck now for smoke and were there is smoke there is fire, how long 1-2 years ? that is my op.

reply to post by bekod


Possibly. Once you couple steady unemployment when the benefits run out, food disruptions, judicial dictatorships nullifying the electorial process as well as inflation and incompetent national security policies that threaten the citizen and aid the invader, it could be sooner. All it will take is just one figure with the power to stand against Federal authority, much like George Wallace did, and you have a fire. I don't think people know how close we were to a civil war again in the sixties in the South. It was pretty damn tenuous for awhile there.