The ATS UFO Section is lacking progress!

Hi all,

This will not become a popular post, but im making it anyway. Its about something I have noticed.

There is no education going on here in the UFO section. People are not finding out about new whistle blowers or information in a coherent and easy way. There is no progression once you have realized aliens exist and that they are visiting the planet. All you have is a constant stream of blurry pictures and people debating weather its a UFO, a optical illusion, a bird or a rocket. And there is no way to see that from the picture alone. So its ultimately useless, at least to the people who have informed themselves, mostly from other sources, and found out that aliens are real.

THE best contributor to the UFO disclosure project that is actually going on right now, only not through official channels such as Obama or the government, is Project Camelot. There is little to no discussion about this on ATS. Why is that?

Which brings me to the reason in my opinion. The skeptics and/or non-believers. They are, by their actions, preventing and disrupting people from having discussions leading forward about this subject. Look - I get it, I really do. They dont believe aliens exist. They want evidence. And they tend to come into threads with their doubts, often rude and dismissive, and demand evidence to believe what other people are believing. So almost any thread becomes about convincing them! Why are we doing this? We are making no progress. This section should not be about convincing skeptics, it should be about learning more about this subject.

I am hardly looking in this section as it is. And this post is to highlight the reason for it. Even though I dont think it will make one bit of a difference, I wanted to make it anyway. Who knows, perhaps someone else agrees with me. But most will disagree, I know. That is the nature of the beast at this time.

reply to post by Copernicus



I can understand your disgruntled and somewhat impatient post, but can I ask you what you have done to contribute what you find lacking?

Although I have been interested in UFOs and various related phenomena for many years, I have only been here for a week or so and it doesn't seem all that bad.

reply to post by Copernicus

Which brings me to the reason in my opinion. The skeptics and/or non-believers. They are, by their actions, preventing and disrupting people from having discussions leading forward about this subject. Look - I get it, I really do. They dont believe aliens exist. They want evidence.

It's really not too much to ask, is it?

BTW: How much can someone 'learn' about things that are inherently 'unidentified'?

(devils advocate post)

Yes, agreed!

At the moment, anybody offering up evidence for the existence of UFO's is merely providing fodder for the debunkers to work on.

There seems to be nobody who is willing to strongly argue the case for the 'believers' and thus half of the interest evaporates immediately as they are shouted down.

This is a bit of a 'call to arms' to those who want to speculate upon the subject.

Originally posted by Copernicus
The skeptics and/or non-believers. They are, by their actions, preventing and disrupting people from having discussions leading forward about this subject.

The skeptics and debunkers are more often than not right in what they say on the subject so you will learn more about UFOs by listening to them.

Believe all you want about ETs, by all means, but ignore the skeptics at your peril. After all, didn't the people of Heaven's Gate choose to ignore the debunkers because they knew their beliefs about the existence of the ET craft in the tail of the Hale-Bopp comet were correct.

reply to post by Copernicus


There is a reason why this is so, as it deals with getting the information to disseminate it. There still are the usual videos of UFOs and other new accounts here, but for basic information it seems like it has been a rather dry spell. However, there is a recent report of UFO sightings being hidden by Winston Churchill, but that may not be considered exciting by some:

www.aolnews.com...

There are a few threads on it here, but it is not really a smoking gun either.

Project camelot is alright (and project avalon)...but the people they interview have been discussed here often in 20 other threads, and usually when a PC or PA video comes out, that also is posted here...

PC is a place where you no longer need proof, your now trying to understand the point...but the problem is, they tend to believe just about anyone and so their "big picture" tends to get all sorts of screwed up...the problem with them is that they take a stand verses use a bit of skepticism...then they use that stand and sort of funnel future interviews into what they have learned by some previous clown...dismissing things that go against previous teachings by random people.

Dont get me wrong though, I watch PC and PA vids all the time, but they are attempting to identify the mythos, on ATS, we (appear to) are seeking the foundation...mythos will come once the foundation is established..

and ya, fuzzy pics of lights in the sky is a part of the foundation...not a great part, but its more relevant than a thread about the desires of the lizard people in the draconis star system.

Well the reason for the lack of progress is simple. Most people refer to ET created spacecrafts when talking about UFO. And since most people understand that ET races do exist now its not much to talk about really.

WE are actually an ET race, if you didnt know

Part of the problem is that no real evidence is being presented by the "believers". This forum is full of wild and exotic claims that have no scientific basis, I wouldn't be surprised if guests sometimes read this forum and come away thinking it is merely a place for creative minds to write and edit science fiction plot lines.

If this forum is to advance itself into a more legitimate focus then it needs to cut away the obvious hoaxes and new-age weirdness (The Reptilians, the Chinese Lanterns, the Stargates, the Galatic Federation of Light or whatever it's called ) and focus on using the scientific method to objectively research the strong cases.

Until that happens this forum will remain a hotbed for hoaxes, frauds, new-age weirdness and plain garbage.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

Guess what? People on this forum make extraordinary claims but they have no extraordinary evidence to back it all up.

The UFO phenomenon was pretty much hijacked by charlatans and crappy hoaxes videos in this forum. People who claim to channel aliens, people that blatantly lie about being top secret workers, and people who throw chinese lanterns in the air and take pictures, or garbage can lids like billy meier.

Which is horrible because people like stanton friedman don't get the time of day, when he is one of the most credible people on the subject. It almost makes me wonder if all the hoaxes and garbage like channeling is a way to distract people from believing in UFO's at all.

[edit on 6-8-2010 by hippomchippo]

reply to post by Copernicus


My response is: Be the change you wish to see. Do not like what you are seeing in this forum: How about you present us with some new stellar out of this world threads. Be the change you want to see. (this thread and my comments sound like dejavu actually). I see people complaining about this forum - but are not doing anything about it.

Also, The skeptic vs. believer debate is rather warn down and certainly adds nothing new to the topic. Its been debated, argued, trashed and bashed to death.

reply to post by greeneyedleo


That would be too hard.

It's easier to whinge about the skeptics ruining it for everyone.

You don't see skeptics charging thousands of dollars to take photos of aliens moths do you?

Or pointing laser beams at aliens aircraft.

This thread is yet another thinly veiled attack on skeptics.



[edit on 6/8/10 by Chadwickus]

reply to post by hippomchippo


When are you people going to WAKE UP about this subject. On and on and on about sightings and blurry photos, makes me puke.

They are real all right, there is enough evidence to fill a dump truck.

So, don't get into arguments about if they are real, or exist, why dont you discuss the military aspect of the COVER UP.

The governments of the world, especially the US, are LYING TO YOU, now if that doesn't start to ring some bells, then leave this suject alone and go argue about something else for C sake.

I thought ATS was the home of Conspiracy Theorists, well you have the biggest conspiracy STAIRING YOU IN THE FACE.

Originally posted by downunderET
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

When are you people going to WAKE UP about this subject. On and on and on about sightings and blurry photos, makes me puke.

They are real all right, there is enough evidence to fill a dump truck.

So, don't get into arguments about if they are real, or exist, why dont you discuss the military aspect of the COVER UP.

The governments of the world, especially the US, are LYING TO YOU, now if that doesn't start to ring some bells, then leave this suject alone and go argue about something else for C sake.

I thought ATS was the home of Conspiracy Theorists, well you have the biggest conspiracy STAIRING YOU IN THE FACE.

Did you read my post? I believe in UFOs.
Good lord take a breather and re-read what my post is about.
And we DO talk about the military coverup, why not instead of shouting at others to talk about it, GO MAKE A THREAD ABOUT IT.
Maybe show some of YOUR evidence that there's a military coverup.

[edit on 6-8-2010 by hippomchippo]

reply to post by downunderET


What exactly are we to "wake up" to? There is not enough evidence to fill a dump truck, why do I say that? Because this is still a fringe subject that only a few legitimate researchers dare to get involved with.

It's easier to whinge about the skeptics ruining it for everyone.

You don't see skeptics charging thousands of dollars to take photos of aliens moths do you?

This is a great point. What bothers so many of us skeptics is that so many people in this field are using it as a way to scam money from gullible people. They have no interest in exploring this field, they simply want to invent bogus stories, put together poorly made Youtube videos and charge people money to learn "The Truth!™" They want to sell badly written books, DVDs and membership into UFO Cults, preying on the gullible and poorly educated.

Yes, I will admit, there are several real cases that deserve further scrutiny and study. But we must do the research first before we jump to conclusions about it. The problem for this forum is that most people here are not interested in doing the research, they simply want to jump to conclusions right away.

It seems you guys are busting the OP's nads for bringing up a subject worth discussing. Have you ever watched UFO hunters?

www.history.com...

These guys go out and do real scientific research. Have they proven UFO's exist? - NO! What they have done, is interview CREDIBLE eyewitnesses, such as pilots. I watched the Peru and Iran case the other night.

Why would the CIA have a representative at BOTH these debriefings of fighter pilots who flew for their respective countries and SAW UFO's??

What more evidence do you need? Yes, people want to see dead aliens etc. BUT the fact that these objects were detected by radar and intercepted by jets, should tell you that something is going on!

BTW - this case is over 30 years. If it is us, what they hell do we have now?

[edit on 6-8-2010 by TortoiseKweek]

Originally posted by TortoiseKweek
It seems you guys are busting the OP's nads for bringing up a subject worth discussing. Have you ever watched UFO hunters?

www.history.com...

These guys go out and do real scientific research. Have they proven UFO's exist? - NO! What they have done, is interview CREDIBLE eyewitnesses, such as pilots. I watched the Peru and Iran case the other night.

Why would the CIA have a representative at BOTH these debriefings of fighter pilots who flew for their respective countries and SAW UFO's??

What more evidence do you need? Yes, people want to see dead aliens etc. BUT the fact that these objects were detected by radar and intercepted by jets, should tell you that something is going on!

BTW - this case is over 30 years. If it us, what they hell do we have now?

I love that show, it's on OLN here in Canada, along with the crappy ghost hunters.

UFO Hunters, yes the show where Bill Birnes believes UFOs are flying out of underwater secret bases, the same show where he claimed a US Army Sergeant traveled through time "twenty or thirty years ago".

Of course the CIA would want to interview those pilots. Why wouldn't they? It was the height of the Cold War and two pilots had reported strange aircraft flying around. Do you honestly think US intelligence agents went there to "Silence the truth about the aliens" or do you think they went there to ascertain whether a new Soviet aircraft or weapons system had been observed? Which explanation do you think is more plausible?

Originally posted by torsion

Originally posted by Copernicus
The skeptics and/or non-believers. They are, by their actions, preventing and disrupting people from having discussions leading forward about this subject.

The skeptics and debunkers are more often than not right in what they say on the subject so you will learn more about UFOs by listening to them.

Believe all you want about ETs, by all means, but ignore the skeptics at your peril. After all, didn't the people of Heaven's Gate choose to ignore the debunkers because they knew their beliefs about the existence of the ET craft in the tail of the Hale-Bopp comet were correct.

Yes I believe you are correct,. I am sure they all got on that ride.
nice post

reply to post by hippomchippo


Where do you think I see it? I'm in Canada too

Jokes aside, they do a good job, the program is balanced between skeptics and believers. They always confer with each other, and respect each others beliefs. That's why I love the program, there's no bias to any party.