We Cannot Exist

What brings me to believe we cannot exist is because things happen for a reason. Since things happen for a reason, we must have been created by a creator such as God or (if the atheists are right) then some random process. I'm specifically talking about causality, the idea that things happen for a reason. If all things must happen for a reason, then surely the universe must have been created by a creative force in order for it to exist.

But the idea that things happen for a reason gets problematic. That creative force that created the universe, must in turn have been created by another creative force, and so on. That brings up a problem. In order for us to exist, infinity NUMBER of things must have happened before our existence in order to cause our existence. Yet, that many things simply can never happen because in order to arrive at a certain point such as today's universe, you must have gotten through all the previous causes of its existence, but if there are infinity number of causes to get through, then you can never actually arrive at any given point.

Therefore, under ordinary reasoning ("things happen for a reason"), we cannot exist. Ordinary reasoning must be wrong. Things must happen for absolutely no reason because as I've described you have to have a starting point or can never get to the current point. God can exist for absolutely no reason, and perhaps then too a Godless universe can exist for absolutely no reason. Either way, reasoning itself is clearly flawed. Things may happen "just because" and perhaps things can stop happening "just because".

If things can happen "just because", then there are no laws of physics, just trends. At any given time we can just poof out of existence "just because". At any given time in a universe under God, God himself can just poof out of existence "just because" as proven by our very existence, which requires at least something to be created for no reason at all. If God or our universe happened "just because" then God or our universe can stop happening "just because". On the plus side, all things are possible.

Laws are meant to be broken.

But seriously, the laws we consider laws, are just our observations/conjectures thus far.

People should be less concerned with "Why are we here?-What is the meaning to life?" and be more concerned with "How can I better myself and humanity as a whole?"

Mankind would grow exponentially compared to how we are now.

Physics isn't 100% correct any physicist will say so... things don't just happen and no one is controlling your thought/free will. There most likely was a creator, but he hasn't mapped out your life.

Originally posted by DavidN
People should be less concerned with "Why are we here?-What is the meaning to life?" and be more concerned with "How can I better myself and humanity as a whole?"

Oh, I think thats not a problem...most people are stuck on a how can I better myself mindset and pondering the big question for more than a few minutes per decade is the norm.


OPs.
Interesting perspective...So what your saying is that we are a tiny piece of film grain on a movie that has been playing since the beginning of time, will go on forever, has no overall plot, and the only point being to have a simple mark on a single frame of a infinate movie...

Sounds about right...now, if you look at the universe as a a virtual reality that people dive into and out of just to experience the cool game called matter, then it makes a bit more sense....the universe is a game.

What if your whole life was mapped out and the only thing you could do was to choose to enjoy it or choose to moan and bitch about it?
What if the thing you call yourself didn`t exist but only the experience of now?
Would there be a reason for anything if you had no words to ask?

in the universal timescale we are merely a flash of existence... I thought that perspective has been around.

You bring up the interesting soul theory... Some people say the body loses the equivalence of a 50 cent piece when you die. What if death is just hitting the reset button?

reply to post by DavidN


While it is true we are a speck of a speck on the cosmic time clock, to each of us, we are our own clock and all the time it will ever tick.

reply to post by DavidN


The body isn`t you and the mind isn`t you, what you are sees the mind and body, it can watch it. You are the awareness of all things.

reply to post by DavidN


You do not leave when the body dies, the body leaves, the mind leaves and you remain as you always have been.

I will put this out there for anyone to answer....

Has there ever been an adequate scientific explanation for consciousness?

I understand how self awareness might seem to exist by mimicry in animals, and therefore explained.

Our own consciousness, however, has that ever been explained?

If God and the universe can disappear "just because" then it stands to reason that my bills can disappear "just because".

Right?

Do you hear me God or whoever you areeeeeee!!!

I believe everyone's future is already set. What we will do tomorrow is already decided. But we are the once who dont know yet, because we live in the present time. There is a schedule for everything, just like we have a calendar filled with duties.

but since we do exist, there must be a reason to it, so perhaps it is your reasoning that is flawed, not reason itself.

I've had these same thoughts but they never get me anywhere but frustrated. I've even considered solipsism but that just makes me feel lonely. Finally I just accepted that it doesn't make sense to me because it never will. I'm sure there's an explanation for everything but I doubt it would even be satisfactory to me. This doggy had to quit chasin' his tail 'cos all he ever got was dizzy.

The fact is... I am typing words on a screen, looking at this screen, breathing.... I'm doing something. Heck, I woke up today feeling great. I'm not going to act like I know how the universe works, but I know I am glad to be alive today. So if we all somehow get "poofed" from existance, then damn, I 'm going to enjoy every moment as best I can and not sit around going woe is me.

Enjoy life. Live for the moment. Spread as much joy and happiness out to the world as you can.

-Sol

This conversation reminds me of the movie Watchmen when Dr. Manhatten was getting headaches or whatever they were because there was no future since nuclear holocaust destroyed all life therefore sending particles known as tachyons back through time and disrupting the space-time continuum.

So maybe if life was similar to this movie we would all be aware that things would cease to exist weeks before it actually happened since the current effects the future and the future effects the current. We would have to do nothing for weeks maybe months beforehand or simply perform the actions put in motion by our past.

If I don't exist, I just wasted 5 mintues of my time, reading your post and replies.

But wait, did those 5 mintues ever exist?

We are as real as our souls...

“If anyone asks you to say who you are, say without hesitation, soul within soul within soul…. Everything is soul and flowering.” -Rumi

We cannot exist?

First define "exist". Define "we". What most people think of as existing and as existance is an illusion. What "we" have come to think of as "me", "I", "you", "us" is not what "we" really are.

Which is not to say that we cannot or do not exist.

Sorry, I gotta go..... uhh, feed the dog, no I mean feed the drag...., I gotta go do something, I'll finish up this post another time. Sorry.

Ciao

This is something that one discusses at two in the morning in a college dorm in the sophomore year with pizza and chianti.

If you are asking the question, then in some sense you exist. The question then arises, what is the nature of our existence. We could be a program in someone's video game. We could be someone's dreams. We could be living in a Heinleinian multiple person solipsistic omniverse. The matrix might be real. The possiblilities are endless. And we will never know.
I think that there was no beginning and no end. And, more immediately, that I am the star of the Truman show. People have told me facts about myself that they could not possibly know.


They're coming to take me away, ha ha, their coming to take me away, ho ho, hee hee, ha ha, to the funny farm, where life is beautiful all the time...