Followers Of Christ Are Submissive To Big Brother.

Originally posted by bekod
be not fooled, for the true words are Romans 13:1"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers, For there is no power but of God : the powers that be are ordained of God." and if you know the works and the wisdom then this is speaking of Gods power not mans. for man does not have power over your sole, God does, man just has power over the flesh. and man has taken all the flesh from me he can. reference is KJV,1985

[edit on 2-8-2010 by bekod]

WHOAH!!!! Are you saying that in 1985 the text in KJV is different that the KJV from the last 20 some years? Is that really what it says? Which publisher?

Some people may not know this but the NIV (which I won't use), published by Zondervan is owned by Rupert Murdock who also owns publishing rights to the satanic bible.

EDIT: OK, I got it. I was reading your whole paragraph and thinking 'that's not what my KJV says'. I agree with your point though. We are not to look up to man as our higher power, only God. Also, truth be known we should not pledge our alliegence to anyone but God also, not even a flag. Our alliegence is to God.

[edit on 3-8-2010 by nlouise]

What difference does it make? The vast majority of people are submissive regardless. Those that aren't are either in jail, financially destitute, dead, or live a Spartan lifestyle trying to stay off the radar. Despite all the big talk the patriot community is mostly just that big talk and little or no action. They are too busy bickering or swooning over the supposed new patriot latest and greatest technology paper work that is going to suddenly free everyone. It's all bullshirt!

There are very few patriots who have stood up to government and won and they are usually keeping a low profile to not draw attention, but in 30 years the patriot movement has done very little if anything to free people. It has played a part in educating people but not nearly enough. And there is a great propensity to exaggerate claims of beating the government among that community. I know I have been involved for over 20 years.

Pick your battles you won't do anyone any good sitting in jail for your principles or dead. Sometimes you have to go along to get along and there is no shame in going along when you do not have power to fight the system. Let the inner voice guide you on when to die on principle not some patriot guilt trip!

[edit on 2-8-2010 by hawkiye]

The Bible was revamped in 1611 by King James, explicitly for the purpose of incorporating the "Divine Right of Kings" into the scriptures. This is why some verses imply that "The Powers that Be" are appointed by God.

If this were truly the case, what must we think of God appointing crooked politicians, warmongers, and abusive leadership?

The main justification in the thought of "Divine Rights" is that the King answers only to God for his actions and not to the people or his subjects. Divine Right states, that if you have a King that rules harshly, it is because YOU deserve it!

Originally posted by humbleseeker
The founding fathers found that this was the right thing to do when they decided to rebel against there government which was the british crown.

Ha. That rebellion must have been a false flag because we are still under The Crown. As the founding fathers were Freemasons, we have neither a republic nor a democracy. It's all been a rouse. Every aspect of our "government" is dictated by secret societies.

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by humbleseeker
The founding fathers found that this was the right thing to do when they decided to rebel against there government which was the british crown.

Ha. That rebellion must have been a false flag because we are still under The Crown. As the founding fathers were Freemasons, we have neither a republic nor a democracy. It's all been a rouse. Every aspect of our "government" is dictated by secret societies.

Not disagreeing but adding to what you said....

The 'founding fathers' also signed esquire when they signed their names to documentation/books they had written because their aleigence was still the to the king of England.

Also the current 'House of Windsor' (Saxe-Coburg-Gotha) are imposters to the throne. All set up for NWO. Where the red dragon on their family crest comes from also having to do with the secret society 'order of the garter' of which they are all members.

All but four of our presidents were blood relatives to the British throne. And, all of our presidents were and still are members of the secret societies. (Look for pics of George Washington wearing his Freemason apron. They are online.)

Yes, this whole country was set up from the beginning. The only reason their (Britain) influence isn't so blatently obvious to most is because they keep that part very low key for reasons which will come out in the open once the NWO is established. The truth is they own millions of acres of land on every continent in the world including here.

We were never separate from Britain. This country was used by Britain for financial gain, and now they will break it to bring everything under one world government. Do some research online, it's all there.



[edit on 3-8-2010 by nlouise]

In regards to Romans Ch:13

I would like to make a few points clear as to "my methods of forming my belief system".
I have read the scriptures, I have studied the scriptures, I have prayed for an understanding of the scriptures, as they apply to me.

Most theologians consider the "King James Version" to be the "most correctly TRANSLATED version."
The scriptures were written by 40 different men, over a period of 1600 years, still remains consistent in it's content in over 2000 languages and having survived 400 years.
It's backed up by 5000 plus Greek, 10000 Latin and 9000 plus, other ancient manuscripts. The oldest dating back to 68 A.D.
(info source: Alpha Course, Alpha International, Holy Trinity Brampton, London)
There are 727 prophecies within it's pages, (appox.1/3), with at least 594 having been fulfilled to 100% accuracy to date, (594 of 727 is 80% of the prophecies having come true).

We have what is called the "CANONIZED BIBLE"... selected Books, separated from the complete works of the original works.

ON WITH IT....

Romans Ch 13 (KJV)

Paul counsels: Be subject unto God's ministers: keep the commandments:
love one another: righteousness leads to salvation.

v1. Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God; the powers that be are ordained of God.
v2. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God; and they that resiseth shall receive damnation.

Q) What are my obligations to God? ( see the 10 Commandments)
Q) do I understand the verse?
Q) do I need to read the chapter / verses before or after to get the proper context?
Q) If I read the chapter /verses prior or after, does the context or message change?


Please understand that what I am about to post is "my opinion", not meant to be taken as correct or incorrect!

OPINION:
First mistake; is taking a single verse from the scriptures, to make a point or statement of fact.
This has become the normal practice in modern religious teachings since the Christian church organizations dropped the Latin from it's service.

Generally, the act of doing so was to hammer fear into the attendance, in order to enact compliance to religious doctrine, till the next meeting.
However, by picking and choosing single verses from various books and combining them carefully, sheeple can be made to believe, perform and follow the ill will of any individual or organization.

This continues to be demonstrated by "religious fanatics" in all established religious organizations.

Governments in time of war, use verses from the scripture to "attack" the morality of their citizens, to cut the strings that bind families and pull their sons and daughters away, to create "political soldiers" that kill other humans, not for God.. not ever. To kill for a "political play" on their government's chessboard.

To get a true understanding of a particular verse, chapter or book, it is often necessary to read the previous chapter as well as the following, (sometimes more, sometimes less). Only then can an individual get a true understanding or the proper context the verse / author is attempting to convey.

That's what we as a "Christian" society has lost. Many of us proclaim to be "Christian", because we were born into it, our parents were born into it.
You don't have to be a "Christian" to read the scriptures, or a politician.
However, if you profess to be a Christian, you should at least read the Holy Bible, the rest of the Books too... it's a wondrous, fulfilling, inspirational read.
There is a learning curve to understanding it though... reading and re-reading verses and chapters to get the message.

Few "are" truly Christian... we strive to survive, work to pleasure ourselves, live for sports, for tech gadgets, toys, sex, money.... more money, that will bring us peace and happiness.

reply to post by Retorque


Thank you. There is nothing more refreshing than an educated voice of reason that brings the whole bullschip argument back into line...

Some know the text very well.... quote verse and chapter, yet dont understand the meaning, because they are too busy looking at the mystical.

Nice to see clear thought - not that anyone else posting was not clear - your post just spoke to me.

Dave

in another part of the bible, paul kind of lumps the submission to the gov't in along with slaves submitting to their masters, and wives submitting to their husbands.....
don't see much argument about the slave thing anymore, since well, slavery is rather frowned upon now in my neck of the woods....and well, seems to be some griping about the gov't part of it now...since the gov't isn't controlled by those "compassionate christian conservatives anymore"....
but well, have a chat with those conservative christians and they seem to still proclaim the part about the wives...........

There's not a lot to add here... but I will do my best. LOL

Submission to God and only God is what is required of Christians...be ye liberal, be ye conservative, be ye fundamental or not.

In fact, an indepth study of the Bible instructs Chritians that all things will fade away...their flags, their country, their laws...only one thing will be eternal....God.

As such, we as Christians should put our faith in God and God only.

Now I love my country, I love America, and be it corny, naive, and old afshioned...I love the principles she was founded on. As such, I defend the ideals of our country...and will submit to no tyrrany.

Are we blowin smoke...nope. Even in 1775-76, only 30% of the colonists wanted revolution....that means 70% were satisfied with the status quo.

With the Civil War of 1861-65, most Southerners did not want seccession from the US. NC, my home, was the last to secceed and hesitantly so.

As such, even with all that is going on today in our country, the prevailing majority do not want confrontation and war and revolution....We just want justice, common sense, and moral ideals to prevail.

But make no mistake... make no mistake, we will fight when the fighting starts. Hesitantly, with much greif...we will fight. When we start to see innocents homes burned down, and farms confiscated, and injustice and tyrrany throughout the land...we will fight.

But that is starting to happen more and more...yes it is, and you now see the resultant rising tensions throughout the US.

For instance, the SWAT/Fed stand off in Nevada...the organizing of militias to patrol the border...the anger and hostility to census takers and agents of the government. All it is going to take is an unforeseen occurance...aka Boston Massacre to ignite the smoldering anger and hostility.

And then you will have angry citizens, ...angry armed citizens...angry armed citizens that believe God is on their side...and the Holy Crap will definitely hit the fan.

Refer to Peter's response to illegal arrests and seizures in the garden on the eve of Christ's arrest.

Yo, yo: First off

Romans 13: Let every soul be subject unto the higher power. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

This was taken from a "Holy Bible" Old and Hew Testaments a authorized (by who? i don't know) King James Version the reason i put it in parenthasies (sp?) is a reason that i care not to disclose. I love the Lord with all my being and i believe that Jesus is the Son of God. So don't get it twisted.

Alright now down to it.....first let me get at the last part of that "the powers that be are ordained of God" I don't believe that God will not stop what people choose to do, i do believe that he will negate it by setting up, something to come against it later, but everything has it's time and place and it will all be to his glory.

Now yes we are to live and be subject to the "law of the land" but once you are God's people you are always God's people.... so at anytime that any enemy be they above you or benithe you they are any enemy and should be treated as such....do you take orders from your enemy?

dang i shoulda gone to the last page....thats obviously where i would have ended up posted then i woulda seen i really didn't need to speak.

Couple of points:

Christians are a fusion of Jewish/YaHuWaHn/Pagan teachings.

The Christian sect is PRE-Messiah and as such the name Christian from the name Christ. Christ is a title, like Messiah or Savior or Lord or God. It is not the name of YaHuWaHs son that he sent whose name was YaHuW who died for us all. YaHuW was never called 'Christ' by His followers. He was called YaHuW-Yasha (savior) or YaHuW-MeoschiYAach (Messiah). Because He came to declare His Fathers name He had His name too. All of YaHuWaHs people had part of His name in their names given by their parents from birth. John was YAHUWcanon, Luke was LukAH, Mark was MarkUW and Mathew was MatithYAHUW, Abraham was AbrAHam, Adam was AHdam, Moses was MoshAH etc etc etc. They all had YA AH UW YAH YAHUW variations in their names to declare His Name Just like YAHUW did in His Name. Do you see? Most will not and cannot see and will not do the research... very sad...

YHWH or YaHuWaH's people are YaHuWaHns. They were mighty fighters and although recently because of the uncovering of ancient scrolls that prove the Yahudi and christian church made out YHWH to be an evil destroyer He infact never murdered innocent people ever! Many scriptures have been corrupted by the ancient Yahudi Jews and consequently the churches. YaHuWaH's people were never pacifists but always defended themselves. It was the christian sect that were pacifists unto death.

Our Most High Father does not want us to sit idly by and just be slaughtered. He never advocated that for His people as a whole. Although His people have given their lives a key times, it was done to show their faith in YAH as an example of faith in specific situations and not just standing by waiting to be slaughtered or cowering down, however the genocide upon the christian sect was not something honorable on either side. Even when YaHuW was being betrayed and the Romans were seeking to take Him, YaHuW had to tell His MalakiYA or Disciples to put away the sword. This was done because He had already told His MalakiYA over and over that THIS MUST OCCUR for Him to fulfill His earthly quest. This was not because He was a pacifist. He never taught His followers that way and that is why He had to stop His men from defending Him for what needed to occur, namely, His sacrifice. YaHuW referred to His MalakiYA Disciples as "The Thundar of YAH". Does that sound like a group of pacifists to you?

YHWH-YaHuWaH: ancient-AbraUW language as recorded proof shows contained 18 Consonants. only 5 of which pointed with a Vowel "sound". Yes their were NO Vowels that were written however the Vowel pointers in many words show that the letters YHWH were each part of the 5 that had pointed vowel sounds, namely the a-u-a Y(Ya) H(aH) W(uW) H(aH). This is His NAME YHWH and this is how you say His Great Name for your protection and blessings. The Greeks later created the alphabet and recorded vowels for what were only vowel sounds previously.

Say His name Boldly, declare it as THE THUNDAR OF YAH you are called to be!

P.S. .01% of everyone reading this will not do the research on this. If you are one this is important to please research the internet further on all of this. Keep ALL of the Ten Commandments and the Double commandment and New Commandment that YaHuW brought to us! AmaniYA! We believe in YAH!

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by snowen20

 

As a Christian, I am discovering every day that the bible is full of lies.

Much as we find every day our government is full of lies.

So I am staying a Christian and forgetting the establishment lies.

Being a Christian is simple - it means helping your fellowman, not standing in judgement, and loving and caring for the world.

Easy.

Ummm, no accepting the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus Christ?
I think that's the FIRST thing that makes a 'Christian'. Do that with a true heart and the rest will follow.

As far as the OP goes, the NIV and KJV are different. KJV FTW.

EDIT: and remember, God hates a coward.

[edit on 3-8-2010 by Romans 10:9]

I say the following with little to no authority, but my interpretation of this is that it's not worth it to revolt for revolt's sake. Why break the speed limit when you don't have to? It might cost you money, which you could have used for God's purposes.

This is not to say that our Kings are representatives of God, but that they are in power because God let that be. It's about humility, and respecting dominion. The same could be said about Satan - whose dominion is earthly things. We can't just revolt against the earth itself, we have to respect the dominion and let God deal out the justice.

When your rulers/kings present direct conflicts to God's laws (not speeding or taxes, but rather murder and religious freedoms), then you can be confident that the ruler is not meant to rule, and you are free to disobey, and perhaps revolt if innocent life is at stake.

The point is that God's law supersedes all else, but if you can observe man's laws at the same time, then you should.

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by humbleseeker
The founding fathers found that this was the right thing to do when they decided to rebel against there government which was the british crown.

Ha. That rebellion must have been a false flag because we are still under The Crown. As the founding fathers were Freemasons, we have neither a republic nor a democracy. It's all been a rouse. Every aspect of our "government" is dictated by secret societies.

Many of the founding fathers were a part of a a great and ancient Fraternity of Freemasonry, and I am possitive that Freemasonry has influenced the founding of the United States. To say we are still under England is just crazy. Although I do not see what the problem with the influence of Freemasonry. Freemasonry teaches a democratic and civil way to conduct affairs in peace and harmony with each other.

reply to post by snowen20


Hmmm interesting thread.Romans 13:1''Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities.For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are establishedby God.''Personally in my opinion we are to obey the governing authority only as long as that authority is in accordance with Gods Ten Commandments.If that ruling authority is telling us to murder or lie or steal or worship idols and they are doing those same things then i dont believe we are obligated to obey that authority.After all Hebrews 10:28 says''Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.''Again in Acts 5:29''But Peter and the apostles answered We must obey God rather than man.''In Matthew 5:17-19''Do not think that i came to abolish the Law or the Prophets i did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly i say to you until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the law until all is accomplished.Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven but whoever keeps and teaches them shall be called great in kingdom of heaven.''Thats the evidence i have to support my conclusion.On a side note i am not only a disciple of Christ i am also an American.And being an American i know that the Declaration of Independence states''........That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it and to institute new government laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.''Just something for you guys to think about.

reply to post by snowen20

The letter to the Romans is one of the undisputed epistles of Paul...
...that is we know Paul wrote it.

Most historians suggest it was written by Paul in Corinth between 55-58AD...
...during the reign of Caesar Nero 54-68AD.

Nero was the first caesar to sponsor state persecution of Christians...
...using them in his 'games' and as 'torches' at parties.
See: en.wikipedia.org...

In light of this historical context Paul's advice to not antagonize ruling authorities is timely and pragmatic advice.


Paul's comments should also be seen in light of Daniel's prophecies...
...where a succession of 'kings' were predicted during this time...
...about 400 years in advance.

Daniel 2:44 "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.”

...and the parallel passage in Daniel7:

Daniel 7:24 "...the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings."

So 'these kings' are ten kings plus an eleventh...

So depending on how you count them...
...and when you think God was 'setting up' His kingdom...
...and when history sees the Greek empire ending and the Roman empire beginning...
...here is a suggested list of Roman 'kings' or emperors...
...with my pick highlighted.

Pompey 106-48BC
1 Julius Caesar 49-44BC
2 Augustus 31BC-14AD
3 Tiberius 14-37AD
4 Caligula (aka Gaius) 37-41AD
5 Claudius 41-54AD
6 Nero 54-68AD
7 Galba 68-69AD
8 Otho 69AD
9 Vitellius 69AD
10 Vespasian 69-79AD
11 Titus 79-81AD
Domitian 81-96AD.

With reference to your OP...
...modern Christians often rush to make local or contemporary application to advice contained in the biblical manuscripts...
...but it is always a good idea to first reflect on the historical/prophetic circumstances of the writer...
...before applying the advice in principle to their own historical setting.