Zechariah 12 predicts current Israel conflict?

What is your interpretation?

Do you feel that this passage accurately predicts Israel's current world reputation and status?


Zechariah 12 : 1-9

1 This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares:

2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem.

3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.

4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness," declares the LORD. "I will keep a watchful eye over the house of Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations.

5 Then the leaders of Judah will say in their hearts, 'The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the LORD Almighty is their God.'

6 "On that day I will make the leaders of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume right and left all the surrounding peoples, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.

7 "The LORD will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem's inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah.

8 On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the LORD going before them.

9 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.

www.biblegateway.com...

I added emphasis to parts that I thought seemed important.

Doesn't this just sound eerily similar to what we are seeing today?

Seems like Everyone is pissed at Israel these days.

Plus, large scale wars are possible. Not just Middle East, but wider global scale wars are being threatened weekly in the MSM.

So what do you think about that?

Did the Bible predict that everyone would turn on Israel ?

If so, that means Israel won't budge on this issue. And that when war happens, Israel will whoop everyone pretty badly.

Also, consider how long ago this was written. And consider that Israel the nation did not exist from 721bc until 1948.

A lot of wild coincidences there, or was it actually predicted accurately??

[edit on 4-6-2010 by muzzleflash]

4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness," declares the LORD. "I will keep a watchful eye over the house of Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations.

This part could be describing electronic warfare, the central most important aspect of modern warfare.

Horse = Tank,APC,Helicopter,Jet

To "Panic" it , may very well mean to scramble or jam it's targeting and guidance systems. Which is a super common 1st strike tactic in modern war.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

The "Madness" of the "riders" probably describes the state of mind a soldier is in when he walks straight into a meat grinder. Anyone who walks into meat grinders has certainly gone mad or stricken with "madness".

So basically Israel will win by using Electronic Warfare to "Blind" the "horses" of all the nations.

Hmmmm....

You can predict anything with hindsight and enough looking...

The real tip-off for me is seeing how basically the smallest country in the middle East, the only one with no oil, gets the most attention. Now that's a real conspiracy. Something fishy about the entire situation.

On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her,

Doesn't take much imagination to see that this is a real possible scenario. Just look at the outcry over 9 recent deaths compared to North Korea sinking an entire boat. It's an almost ridiculous amount of grief an anguish. Seems extremely fabricated to me.

That's being discussed in this thread currently if you want to jump into that foray.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by dbates]

Or it was just written so other nations at the time would be fearful to attack Israel. It is a warning not a prophecy.

Originally posted by webpirate
You can predict anything with hindsight and enough looking...

Problem is, the person who wrote this passage has NO HINDSIGHT, they have been dead for thousands of years.

Another thing, stuff like this is pretty hard to find, it's a needle in a haystack.

And please everyone let's try to look at this in a open minded way not in a "i dont believe in religion, or i believe it because im religious" ways.

Let's try to look at this in more of a academic fashion and not be so prejudice?

It really does seem to be quite uncanny in a way.

There are other prophecies about Israel as well, this is only one of them. It gets really weird if you ever study this stuff man. Look I am pretty skeptical usually but I won't allow that to blind me from extremely rare set of coincidences that seem to defy the odds.

Either
1) Ultra coincidence
2) People are Self-Fulfilling the Prophecy by acting it out
or 3) Exotic Explanations, God,Aliens,etc.

If you have any other options, please feel free to add.

#2 seems to be the easy way out of this.

I am waiting for somone to say that scrupture is figurative......



because if the God i was raised to believe in suports the literal Iseral of today.......


i would say there is no god and i give up on that snip

Originally posted by janon
Or it was just written so other nations at the time would be fearful to attack Israel. It is a warning not a prophecy.

Zechariah’s ministry took place during the reign of Darius the Great (Zechariah 1:1), and was contemporary with Haggai in a post-exilic world after the fall of Jerusalem in 586/7 BC.[1]

en.wikipedia.org...
^ Carol L. Myers and Eric M. Myers, Haggai, Zechariah 1-8: The Anchor Bible. Garden City, Doubleday and Company Inc., 1987. ISBN 978-0385144827. Page 183.

The united Kingdom of Israel was a kingdom that existed in the Land of Israel, according to the Bible, a period referred to by scholars as the United Monarchy. Historians date the kingdom from c. 1020 BC to c. 930 BC, though there are differences of opinion as to exact dates.

en.wikipedia.org...(united_monarchy)




My emphasis.

This guy Zechariah never even said this stuff until 400ish years AFTER Israel was no longer a nation?

It took until 1948 for Israel to FINALLY exist again!

On May 14, 1948, the day before the expiration of the British Mandate, the Jewish Agency proclaimed independence, naming the country Israel.

en.wikipedia.org...

Do you realize the odds we are looking at here?

I recently stumbled onto an interesting article on the same topic. This was more focused on Ezekiel 38-39 but runs parallel to the thoughts of Zechariah 12. Read if you wish. Just for clarity ignore the rapture portions and focus on the war mentioned in this article. It's in 4 parts and actually an interesting read.

The Battle of Ezekiel 38-39 Part 1
The Battle of Ezekiel 38-39 Part 2
The Battle of Ezekiel 38-39 Part 3
The Battle of Ezekiel 38-39 Part 4

This article has the idea that there are two actual major battles predicted for Israel. One in Ezekiel, the other final battle would be the one mentioned in Zechariah. Part 2 of this article (written before this recent flotilla incident) actually focuses initially on Turkey being nearly ready to fall in with the group that attacks Israel. Funny how today's headlines seem to lead you to nearly this conclusion.

Now for my favorite/most spooky part. This passage (Ezekiel 39:14-15) seems to predict deaths from either radiation or biological warfare. It clearly states that there will be professionals hired to bury the dead and if someone finds a body they will just leave a marker there for the professionals to find. It also seems to say that they'll wait 7 months before they actually make a full pass through the battlefield to bury the dead. These people aren't going to die from bullets or swords obviously.


The author of the article mentioned believes that this battle will be the queue for the anti-Christ to make his entrance and set up a peace treaty with Israel. Actually a pretty good theory in my opinion.

Originally posted by The Great Day

because if the God i was raised to believe in suports the literal Iseral of today.......

i would say there is no god and i give up on that snip

This is not about what is wrong and what is right.

This is about a 2500year old writing that somehow predicts todays exact predicament, that everyone will hate Israel.

Not to mention it also predicts how Israel becomes a nation in ONE DAY! True Facts man read History. Israel was formed in one day, May 14, 1948.

Isaiah 66 : 8

Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children.

www.biblegateway.com...


So? Do you think the world leaders and power brokers are making everything follow this prophecy on purpose to fulfill their crazy ideas?

reply to post by dbates


Thank you for the great replies.

Looks like I need to read those links.

I am really interested in the Turkey aspect to all of this. That was what got me specifically thinking about this actually, being Turkey is a NATO alliance member.

Also combined with the fact there was a huge wave of upset posts on ATS about the Israel subject over the recent incidents.

I started realizing maybe this stuff really is coming to fruition. Again I must point out the word Uncanny fits all of this quite well.

the thing I recall about Ezekiel 38 was the roster of nations; Magog (presumably Russia), Persia (Iran), Libya and others...but not Egypt.
there is definitely a Russia-Iran axis, and Egypt continues to be the most tolerant state in the region towards Israel.
will the U.S. help, or just stand by and watch?

Very interesting discussion you started here

I was recently told by a friend about this one,

another interpretation of the current events taking shape in the gulf and recent conflicts at sea.

The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed. (Rev 8:8-9)

gracethrufaith.com...


[edit on 4-6-2010 by InvisibleObserver]

If you follow these prophecies carefully you see this particular prophecy begins when Jerusalem becomes a divided city. Although the eastern side is largely inhabited by Arabs, Israel still controls the entire city at this present time. This will soon change when Hamas attacks and secures the eastern half of the city.

The Bible states that Israel will seek help from Britian, to intercede on its behalf with Germany (the king of the north) The German led EU army then attacks Iran (The king of the south) and her allies opposing Israel defeating them and thus securing Jerusalem.

This action by the EU alarms both Russia and China as now the EU has total control of the Middle east oil fields. A Russia/China alliance marches on the middle east sweeping Europe before them. The German led EU (the revived Holy Roman Empire) along with the Vatican are forced to relocate to Jerusalem which is soon surrounded by armies as per the prophecy.

The ensuing battle is called in the Bible 'The day of the Lord'. Both armies, the 200 million strong asiatic alliance and the EU army join forces to fight the return of Jesus for total control of the world.

It is not clear how the armies are destroyed. Probably nuclear, but as the final battle takes place in the Valley of Jehosaphat, quite close to Jerusalem, I would think the Israelis would be very worried about destruction/damage/fallout over the Holy City.

Note there is no mention of the US being involved in any of this. The US is taken off the world stage before this event by ongoing and increasingly severe natural and economic disasters taxing her strength and will. (does anyone doubt that the US is in serious decline).

Originally posted by muzzleflash
So? Do you think the world leaders and power brokers are making everything follow this prophecy on purpose to fulfill their crazy ideas?

I know it sounds crazy, but this is exactly what I think is happening.

reply to post by triune



Sorry, but I just can't envision the final battle for global domination happening in jerusalem or isreal or anywhere in the middle east. The world does not revolve around them.

These " prophecies" seem more like warnings or something they would say to instill national pride, like before a battle. Putting it in the bible to show how " powerful " Isreal was at the time.

What also show's this passage as being outdated is the reference to " horses and their rider's " . No, I don't think this is some mystical way of describing a helicopter, .... Just regular ole horses.

So meaning or prophecies can be found whenever something is interpeted to support them. Hence, everything lies in interpetation.

reply to post by IntastellaBurst


Strange as it may seem, the world does revolve around Jerusalem. It is the most fought over and disputed peice of real estate in the entire world and has been for thousands of years.

As Jerusalem is the wick by which the middle east is set aflame, that flame will quickly spread as the competing world powers must stake their claim for oil, so its importance cannot be over estimated.

Whether or not you beleive or understand the bible, world events are quickly falling into place just as the bible states they would.

The bible foretells the demise of America and Britain. Tune into the world news tonight for the latest on their decline. The bible also foretells the rise of Germany (Assyria in the bible) and the EU. soon to be pared down to ten members.
Germany is now quickly and quietly amassing a large ultra modern military. They will also command the militaries of all the EU member countries. The European Central Bank (ECB) under German control also holds the gold reserves of ALL the 27 current member countries.

Germany will soon be calling the shots for Europe, both financially and militarally, and shortly after that for the entire western world, just as the bible has foretold.

just support for your thread.

Great post s/f. Couldn't agree more. have you noticed that Israel bashing is on the increase?

reply to post by dbates


There is a slight hole in this idea though ....if nuclear bombs were dropped on Israel then how could the Israeli's even leave their homes to go around marking out the locations of random bones ? There would be so much nuclear fallout how could anyone be outdoors accept people in safety gear ? If there is any kind of nuclear attack on Israel you'd have to assume it would be very low key - maybe just the one bomb - as otherwise the Israeli's would have nothing to celebrate as their land would be decimated and vast swathes of the population dead.