Today in NYC ...

Just some random thoughts ...

So a fellow ATS member and myself are in the midst of spending the weekend in NYC and I thought I would share a few thoughts which crossed my mind as we were driving and walking around the last couple of days.

Keep in mind that although I currently reside in DC, I've spent a third of my life living in NYC ... yet at the time I wasn't an ATS member so my experience whilst living in the city wasn't related to the topics discussed here. Life was just "real life" and was lived/observed through the eyes of a person simply living it without much thought or regard for "conspiratorial/alternative" considerations.

So as we've been making our way around the city through the weekend I was once more reminded of what makes NYC such an extraordinary place ...

We drove through Cuban and Korean neighborhoods in Jersey, Astoria (Greek hood in Queens), what's left of Little Italy, Chinatown, Little Korea, Harlem, and Spanish Harlem ... though we didn't go there on this trip there is Brighton Beach (Russian hood), Jewish neighborhoods, Muslim, Puerto/Newyorican, Syrian Jewish, and so many other ethnic neighborhoods. They all manage to live together in the same city. They manage to communicate even though many don't speak english ... and yet somehow the whole thing seems to work.

And as we were soaking all that in, my mind drifted back to ATS, and the nature and tone that so many of the recent conversations on immigration have unfolded here. With so much anger, vitriol, and yes n some cases, even bigotry. And the whole thing seemed so far removed from the extraordinary realities and virtues of this grand city.

I moved away from NYC for many reasons and haven't given it a second thought or regretted it since ... but this element is the one that I miss. I realize that many don't like NYC, it isn't for everyone for the city has many problems and in many ways is an ordeal. But not this element of it.

Please note that with the above thoughts I am not suggesting that immigration isn't an issue in the United States. It is one that I for one am not smart enough to claim a solution to.

But there's something just so damn beautiful about being surrounded by countless cultures, languages, religions, sexual preferences, skin tones ... just regular people living their lives and interacting with one another, and none of them really care what the "official" language is.

Anyhoot, just thought I'd share these random thoughts while still fresh in my mind ... I hope you will forgive me the indulgence.

Sweet S'dog! I'm glad to hear a positive spin on it. I'm visiting the Big Apple for the first time in August and I can't wait.

The UK is a major melting pot too, and I hate the 'us and them' mentality.

Any tips for my visit mate?

All the best, kiwi

Good thoughts to balance some of the hard-hitting threads of late SDog. The mixing of different cultures who somehow manage to get along for the most part, and yet retain their own cultural identities is one of the many things I miss about San Francisco.

It's a good thing to walk among people just making their way, raising their families and honoring their country, as well as their own heritage.

Thanks for the thread. A point of perspective is a healthy thing.

yes in chicago it is the same, there are many ethnic & religous neighborhoods, much of the signage is in different languages. i think its great to be exposed to so many different culures!

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Nice post from the real world. Almost as credible as a hateful chain-email

The rampant small-minded xenophobia on this site is really pathetic....

Best,
SN

Thanks for sharing that with us Schrodinger. You're so right about how at least in the city there is a place for everybody, even the homeless (back when it was just a few hard-core types). Nobody is a freak in the city so you can just take it all in an leave being judgemental behind and just bask in the experiences around you, all the awesome smells of ethic cooking, the colors and design themes that identify some cultures or nationalities.
I really do miss the city sometimes, I feel like a sore thumb in a smaller city where I live now. We have the predominant dual black/white old school southern values and no ethnic anything here. Kinda sad,
I think it's better that people get to vent their racism really, it if that's what they REALLY feel I want to know. I would prefer that others not lie to me nor I to them. I have to respect all speech, even that I find crude, stupid, offensive or racist. Something I say is going to bother someone and I don;t want them telling me "I can't say that". But rather than trading insults isn't it better to communicate and find out WHY they have these racist tendencies to begin with. What makes people tick and how can we help them to overcome their fear (It's my contention that 99% of all racism is due to FEAR). Illegal immigration is still a HUGE problem and is draining our meager resources though. We just need to stringently enforce the laws we already have.
Now you got me rambiling

Great post, S&F

The influx of people from sites like Stormfront has been pretty marked in the last year or so. (Gee, I wonder why?)

Threads like yours are what keep me from abandoning this site all together to the biggots and the zealots.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I hear what you're saying, but how many of them would you consider "immigrants" and how many would you consider "illegal immigrants"? I've always been poor myself and kicked it in the same neighborhoods, as many colored folk do; and have for the most part got along with them. However, you're not over here on the west-side and definately not here in Vegas. Where I can atest to parking lots full of "people" lookin for work, to where the only people you see working jobs are "ethnic". Which again, I'm sure people aren't as angry at the fact that they're working and more at the fact they want to have all the benefits of being an American without being an American and it's not fair to us and it's not fair to people who got through the proper channels of immigration and want to ASSIMILATE to our society...

reply to post by schrodingers dog

But there's something just so damn beautiful about being surrounded by countless cultures, languages, religions, sexual preferences, skin tones ... just regular people living their lives and interacting with one another, and none of them really care what the "official" language is.

When you are able to separate yourself from all of the political agendas and violence and see human beings just being human beings, it does seem to shed hope on our existence doesn't it? I sat back in a lawn chair at Deleon Springs yesterday under a huge oak tree with moss hanging down from its majestic branches and just watched everyone. The place was mobbed as it was a beautiful day and everyone seemed to have the same idea as we did, hang out at the springs.

The smells of barbecue and flowers wafted through the air and the sounds of acoustic guitars could be heard as a few people had joined together and began playing in unison. Everyone seemed to be wearing a smile and frisbees soared through the air. Children were laughing and playing and some people just slept on blankets in the sun. I believe I saw every ethnicity there that I could imagine.

The thing is, everyone was getting along. No one cared who came from where or anything like that. Everyone was happy and sharing foods that they were making on the grills. It was a great time and like I said very encouraging to me. When we get away from the system we seem to realize that we are all just human and want the same things. To be happy and make others happy as well. Great thread my friend.

Immigration isnt a issue in the US,, those who come the right way like most of what you saw in NYC are welcomed. ILLEGAL immigration is the issue i dont see why people cant differentiate between the two.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


"A cheap holiday in other people's misery"...what was that from again?

It may be charming to be "surrounded" by diversity, perhaps less so to be trapped in it...you don't really understand another culture until they outnumber you, hee-hee-hee...good luck with that.

reply to post by kiwifoot


Five Guys Burgers and Fries, if you go to Brooklyn 7th ave, The best burgers in my opinion. Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.

I live in Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.

We have the same here, all faiths, religions and cultures.
There are no problems.

Growing up, there were shops run by pakistani's.
That was it. Now we have all the above.

How is it in small corners of the globe, all over the globe, people from all these countries, with all these different religions and beliefs can live together.
But on the main political stage, we cant.

Good post.
S&F

While the cultural and ethnic diversity of NYC is laudible, I see a darker side to the city when I visit in terms of distribution of wealth. The high rollers in Manhattan live live kings in a bubble totally isolated from the harsher conditions just across the river in the shadier parts of Brooklyn...to say nothing of the denizens of cities like Detroit or Cleveland. Manhattan in particular is a kind of Disneyland of endless wealth and privilage, where reality never intrudes the tree-lined balconies towering high above Central Park, and where Rolls Royces prowl leisurely down a Fifth Avenue carefully kept free of the unsightly homeless.

We don't hate illegal immigrants because they are Mexican. We don't like them because they are criminals. Any race can live together in harmony, as long as they aren't CRIMINALS.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
We don't hate illegal immigrants because they are Mexican. We don't like them because they are criminals. Any race can live together in harmony, as long as they aren't CRIMINALS.

That is the point, being an "illegal alien" makes them automatically criminals.

I went to the city once back in 2002. it seemed nice , I was only going there for some vacation time with my family . It was so nice to see the huge city, I saw it once in friday the 13th Jason takes manhattan... I was there me and this woman around my age 17 , we fell in love for 24 hours . Its a nice place to fall in Love in , And then forget about the normal life of working , a good vacation town . I went all over, had a fun time. Its got MTV, and everything . I love it there. And I keep looking for Jason vorhees everytime I would walk at night on the streets lol other than that , It was good



[edit on 23-5-2010 by AndersonLee]

Thank you for posting this. As an expatriate that lives in the U.S.A. and Mexico I can vouche for multiculturism. There are good things and there are bad things. The Italians and Mexicans brought over their recipes and we enjoy their culture.
Let's attack what is really going on. That is drugs and and a new indentured servitude.
With Italians, they all look European. With Mexicans, they are all different shades of brown. Spanish and Indigenous. They look more foreign than the rest of the demographics.

If you are a tall white boy/girl from Minnesota and you encounter a short brown person from Chiapas...show respect. They built the Mayan calender. So anyways, I'm just trying to keep the xenophobic aspect of ATS to zero if that is possible. One thing is true, were are being observed and lets keep our noses clean.

you could not pay me enough to spend more than 5 minutes in nyc.
that place sucks. alot.
the last time i was there i was leaving school on long island, and 3 hours later still stuck in gridlocked traffic somwehre in nyc. jsut thinking aobut it makes me sick.
and the people there suck even worse than the traffic. i grew up in the sticks, mostly mass and NH, and its like night and day being in nyc. the people are rude and taht accepnt makes even teh prettiest woman seem like a total waste of time.
nyc is the worst place i have ever been.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Ehh to be honest, I think everyone keeps to their neighborhood. I mean except for Manhattan though. I used to live in Brooklyn for a year and I seriously missed living there. Manhattan only 10 minutes away via subway. Everything within walking distance. In the area I lived in was quiet even when walking through it at 3:00 in the morning. I will never ever forget the wonderful experience I had in Brooklyn.

I lived at a university in Brooklyn and even outside the university I treated everyone with respect and I was treated with utmost respect no matter what color the other person was or what color I am. Like I said people kind of keep to their neighborhood ( I remember passing through a hasidic jewish community and I never saw any in Brooklyn in my area at least). In shops in my area have every race tending them (I wont make any generalizations). So yea I agree with you in the sense that in my area there was such vast diversity but if you start heading to communities you won't see any diversity.



[edit on 23-5-2010 by fordrew]