Debunk This!!! You can't. Ha!

reply to post by Whyhi


I will take on the responsibility of the cigarette rant. He CHOOSES to smoke a cigarette. He does not choose to ingest fluoride or other chemicals that are unknowingly forced upon him. Try to buy toothpaste in the store without fluoride. I had to make my own and yes I smoke. That is my CHOICE even though I know how bad it is. I will grow my own tobacco this year, process it and that is my CHOICE. Drinking water, a lifes necessity and not knowing what exactly is in it is not a CHOICE. That is what freedoms about right? Choice?

I'm not here for a long time, I'm here for a good time. If I get sick from smoking then I have noone to blame but myself and I will go and die where nobody will be bothered with the consequences.

Freedom is not free, it comes with a responsibilIty. If you can be responsible for your choices then you deserve to exercise them.

[edit on 8-5-2010 by TheRoadLessTraveled]

edit because apparently I am not responsible enough to spell responsibility.  j/k I am almost always mobile and my little screen doesn't leave much room for self spell checking. It's hard to even read the words nevermind spell check them.

[edit on 8-5-2010 by TheRoadLessTraveled]

[edit on 8-5-2010 by TheRoadLessTraveled]

[edit on 8-5-2010 by TheRoadLessTraveled]

Originally posted by Dallas1611

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
reply to post by GorehoundLarry

You will learn very little in life except for how to be a Jehovah's Witness if you only listen to clean-cut, well-dressed, well-spoken people.

hehe..that was priceless

I usually just read and laugh to myself about all the childish posts people leave, such as GorehoundLarry. But your comment here, deserved a comment of its own

I laughed a good minute or 2....and such a true statement as well, good job.

Childish? You're the one with the Bible quote in your sig...But we'll leave it that.

Lets not derail this thread any longer with flames, thanks buddy.

As for the other posts, very valid points. It seems this very bored youtuber sat around for days recording himself rambling about...absolute nonsense.

'Just turned to this thread. Where is the opening stuff?

reply to post by TheRoadLessTraveled


Well, fluoride isn't "unknowingly forced" into water, in my area it's rather common knowledge that there is indeed fluoride added to the water, which was decided by by a vote held in my city, yay for democracy?

I could probably argue the "choice" of smoking. To my knowledge, they are intentionally made to be addictive, with the experience of satisfaction or enjoyment of having one just feeding the addiction, which in seems to me a poor representation of freedom or choice, as would any addiction.

But really, if your point is just to remark about how it is wrong to force fluoride into your water supply, I would think there would be a reason for the hostility against it, such as negative effects of the fluoride in drinking water, which aren't too numerous. Unless of course you are purposely trying to harm yourself by eating vast amounts of toothpaste / drinks with fluoride in it.

reply to post by GorehoundLarry

Childish? You're the one with the Bible quote in your sig...But we'll leave it that.

[edit on 8-5-2010 by Whyhi]

reply to post by Aliensun


On the first page?

As for the reason nobody was posting they probably have been watching this guys series. good stuff btw S&F

reply to post by Whyhi


It is forced when a majority of the population does not understand it's health effects. If people were told exactly what it does and why it is used then it would have never made it into the water in the first place. Some people are too stupid to be reasoned with though, so it wouldn't be forced no matter how much you told them.
For example, nursery water with fluoride. Most children do not show teeth until well after the nurseing stage and if not are weened off of breast feeding from the nibbleing, but they make fluoridated water for babies with no teeth? Or Similac with fluoride.

Just goes to show how woefully informed many people are. They want to protect their children to the point that they make themselves sick, yet they are exposing those very same children to fluoride.

How does drinking fluoride help my teeth. It is a topical solution meaning that you have to cover a surface with it to work like they say. Drinking it does not help my teeth at all except for the little bits that get washed over.(if it helped at all which it doesn't).

[edit on 8-5-2010 by TheRoadLessTraveled]

[edit on 8-5-2010 by TheRoadLessTraveled]

reply to post by TheRoadLessTraveled

It is forced when a majority of the population does not understand it's health effects

Effects? Such as...?

Fluoride mixes with tooth enamel when they are growing, it is helping them, not harming them. Even if you were to opt out of your city's water supply, it could be likely that your local lakes / rivers / oceans / whatnot contains fluoride that was created naturally, and again, will not harm you.( in appropriate concentrations )

Fluoride isn't bound to just one state, toothpaste and mouthwashes are topical.

Fluoride hardens tooth enamel, can inhibit oral bacteria's ability to create acids, promotes tooth remineralization, make a tooth more decay resistant, etc.

This guy is pretty cool. He uploaded Alex Jones documentary on Barack Obama.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
This guy is pretty cool. He uploaded Alex Jones documentary on Barack Obama.

Enough said!!!!

2nd line

reply to post by Whyhi


Naturally occuring fluorides and what are put into consumer products are not the same. The fluoride we get today is a byproduct of aluminum manufacturing. It is a toxin and was used by Germans during the Holocaust to make prisoners docile and dumbed down.

There is recent article from a journal of medicine, possibly European that solidly questions that use and effectiveness of fluoride. Fluorides first use was in hyperthyroid patients. A scientist noticed that at a certain ppm it would bring a hyperthyroid patient into a normal TSH range.

From there it was weaponized and released upon an unsuspecting populace. I could go on and on, but I thought it was pretty common knowledge on conspiracy boards. If you would like links to sites talking about fluorides and their dangers then I can provide. If you can provide me with links about fluoride being safe, I will accept and research them.


I have had this debate with my Dentist and he says as long as you don't swallow it you are safe. Why would he tell me that? Also, there is a warning on the back of toothpaste. A tube of toothpaste can kill a 25lb. child. I realize many things can, but how many tell you to call a poison control center?

[edit on 8-5-2010 by TheRoadLessTraveled]

I gave up on him at the fluoride video.

Yes, fluoride is bad at high concentrations. Is it added to water or toothpaste at dangerously high concentrations? No. Isn't it self evident that too much of anything is bad, but that most of the things that humans consume can be consumed safely by not overdoing it?

Heavy metals are deadly at high concentrations, so is ammonia, and CO2, and hydrochloric acid, and potassium chloride, yet all of these things are either necessary for humans to consume or produced naturally by the body. Does it make sense for me to say that you are being poisoned by Cheerios because they contain iron, and large amounts of iron are dangerous? Of course not, you need some iron, but - like everything else - too much is bad.

There are hazardous levels of every chemical, fluoride included. It is either being deceptive or being misguided and ignorant that causes people to make the argument that "Since, at some concentration which I will fail to specify, chemical X is bad, then that means that everything with any concentration at all of chemical X must also be bad." Do you know what chemical causes death in lethal injections? It's potassium chloride, yet that very chemical is in your stomach right now, and is necessary. By the anti-fluoride logic, you had better go out and make a hundred websites, youtube videos, and ATS posts about the danger of having a stomach.

reply to post by Whyhi


not to go off topic but i thought this was good info on the flouride issue..

Dear Reader,

It was right there in front of me and I still couldn't believe it. Watching TV last weekend I saw an advertisement for a new product from Dannon: bottled water for kids called "Fluoride to Go."

The pitch? "Why give your child soda full of sugar? Instead offer them Dannon Fluoride to Go - a convenient, satisfying way to help your child build strong teeth." So now Dannon offers you a choice: you can give the kids sodas with all the added sugar, or you can give them water with all the added toxins.
What?

Well, in case you didn't know it, fluoride is highly toxic. In fact, before fluoride was deemed a "cavity fighter," it was used as insecticide and rat poison. It's true. Even more surprising is that when it comes to dental hygiene, fluoride actually does more harm than good.

Everything you always DIDN'T want to know about fluoride

For decades the message that fluoride safely prevents tooth decay has been considered sacrosanct. This idea came from the same "chemicals for better living" era that also told us that smoking cigarettes soothed the throat.

Now for a brief history lesson: please switch off the lights and turn on the projector...

Fluoride is a pollutant - a by-product of copper, iron and aluminum manufacturing. The problem of how to legally dispose of fluoride was solved in the 1930's when a study (funded by one of the country's largest aluminum companies) concluded that fluoride prevented tooth decay. A successful public relations effort, helped along with some cooperative government cronies, resulted in the good news going out: this miracle chemical, when added to water supplies, will give everyone healthy teeth and brighter smiles.
Got fluoride?

But does fluoride actually prevent tooth decay? Not according to the largest study ever conducted on fluoridation and oral health. 39,000 school children in 84 areas around the U.S. were studied in the mid-80's, and the results showed no statistical difference in tooth decay rates between fluoridated and non-fluoridated cities.

Meanwhile, tooth decay trends tracked by the World Health Organization from 1970 to the present show that the incidence of decayed, missing or filled teeth has been steadily in decline with each passing year in the U.S., France, Germany, Japan, Italy, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway, The Netherlands, Northern Ireland, Austria, Belgium, Portugal, Iceland and Greece. And why are the numbers of decayed teeth on the decline? Better oral hygiene and improved dental practice is the most obvious answer. It's certainly not the fluoride. Because of all of those countries, only one adds fluoride to the public water supply: the United States.

A few of the countries listed above used to put fluoride in some of their water, but they eventually wised up to the dangers of this aluminum by-product. And here's some truly radical thinking for you: many of those countries simply refuse to run fluoride through every citizen's faucets based on the idea that health treatments should be a personal choice and not mandated by the government. What a concept!
Downside takes a down turn

So how is fluoride bad for you? To start with, the irony is that when you consume too much fluoride, your teeth can become discolored and crumble. But that's nothing compared to the other ways that fluoride attacks your mind and body.

In tests on laboratory animals, fluoride has been shown to enhance the brain's absorption of aluminum - the substance that's found in the brains of most Alzheimer's patients. Three different osteoporosis studies have associated hip fractures with fluoridation. And excessive fluoride has been shown to damage the musculoskeletal and nervous systems, leading to limited joint mobility, ligament calcification, muscular degeneration and neurological deficits.

And finally (I saved the worst till last), a number of different studies have linked fluoride to as many as 10,000 cancer deaths per year, with a high incidence of bone cancer among men exposed to fluoridated water.

In the meantime, local, state and federal government agencies across the U.S. do their best to simply dismiss all this bad news. Unlike their European counterparts, they're sticking to their outdated and baseless claims that the stuff is good for you. Why? If I had to guess, I'd say it's because they're terrified that if they admit that fluoride is poison, the deluge of resulting civil law suits just might wash them away.
Consumer misreports

So back to Dannon - what do you think? Are kids getting so little fluoride that they need to have it added to their bottled spring water? Consumer Reports magazine says YES! As you may recall Consumer Reports has been a target in previous e-Alerts for offering superficial and wrong-headed advice on health and nutrition issues. My beef with CR is that they are no more qualified to give me nutrition advice than my internist is qualified to tell me which air conditioners have the best ratio of energy efficiency to BTUs. And yet, they continue to get involved in issues they just have no place in.

Last February, Dr. Marvin Lipman, a spokesman for Consumer Reports, stated that not everyone is getting enough fluoride. The problem, says Dr. Lipman, is twofold: some communities don't fluoridate their water systems, and a lot of people these days are drinking bottled water which contains no fluoride. Ah, but don't you worry - in addition to Dannon, as many as 20 other bottled water pushers, are answering the "need" for more fluoride. And if you still think you're not getting sufficient fluoridation, an article in Consumer Reports suggests that you sign up to have 5 gallon jugs of fluoride-laced water delivered to your door.

But let's be perfectly clear: Fluoride is not something your body needs. No one has a fluoride deficiency. Fluoride is a false magic bullet solution from a bygone era. Now, 60 years after water fluoridation began, the word is getting out: this stuff is just plain bad. But thanks to Dannon and others, it appears that fluoride is about to take its toll on at least one more generation of American kids before someone overcomes the government marketing mindset and reveals this poison for what it really is.

www.globalhealingcenter.com...

[edit on 8-5-2010 by baddmove]

I like it, but why does he have to be so damn hood? Does he think its cool?
He is white yet his dialect and gestures suggest a greatly exaggerated imitation of an urban black teenager...

Ever notice how white people that try to act black act way more black than actual black people?

I would have enjoyed his videos more if I wasn't cringing with empathic embarassment...

Originally posted by TheRoadLessTraveled
If you can provide me with links about fluoride being safe, I will accept and research them.

See above for why the fact that fluoride can be poisonous does not mean that it is at the levels that we find it in water. And, here:

For 65 years, community water fluoridation has been a safe and healthy way to effectively prevent tooth decay. CDC has recognized water fluoridation as one of 10 great public health achievements of the 20th century.

Source
List of the 10 great public health achievements

Benefits

Since community water fluoridation began in 1945, it has been demonstrated to be a safe and cost-effective way to prevent tooth decay. Fluoridation protects teeth in two ways:

1)When delivered through the water supply to children during the tooth forming years.

2)Through direct contact with teeth throughout life.

Source

The following selected reports and journal articles provide more detailed evidence supporting the benefits of community water fluoridation (see also Systematic Reviews).

Oral Health in America: A Report of the Surgeon General
Chapter 7 presents the evidence for community water fluoridation for prevention of tooth decay.

Achievements in Public Health 1900–1999—Fluoridation of Drinking Water to Prevent Dental Caries
MMWR, October 22, 1999;48(41);933–940.
Recognizes community water fluoridation as one of the 10 great public health achievements of the 20th century, provides a brief history of water fluoridation, and describes the historical decline in tooth decay.

Dietary Reference Intakes for Calcium, Phosphorus, Magnesium, Vitamin D, and Fluoride* (PDF 126KB)
Describes the dietary reference intakes for specific nutrients known to be beneficial to health, including fluoride. As is the case with all nutrients, there are recommendations for both adequate intake and tolerable intake levels. This report addresses both benefits and safety.

Source

Comprehensive reviews on the science available to determine the benefits and effectiveness of community water fluoridation.

Recommendations for Using Fluoride to Prevent and Control Dental Caries in the United States. MMWR, August 17, 2001;50(RR–14):1–42. Also available as a PDF file (PDF 373K).
Provides guidance to health care providers, public health officials, policymakers, and the general public on how to achieve maximum protection against tooth decay while using dental care resources efficiently and minimizing any cosmetic concerns.

Reviews of Evidence on Interventions to Prevent Dental Caries, Oral and Pharyngeal Cancers, and Sports-Related Craniofacial Injuries*
From the Task Force on Community Preventive Services, provides information on the studies used in the evidence review on community water fluoridation, the suitability of the study designs, and quality of the evidence used to determine the magnitude of effectiveness of community water fluoridation.

Summary Report
Promoting Oral Health: Interventions for Preventing Dental Caries, Oral and Pharyngeal Cancers, and Sports-Related Craniofacial Injuries
MMWR, November 30, 2001;50(RR21);1–13.
Reinforces the evidence-based prevention activities of community water fluoridation and school-based or school–linked dental sealant programs.

A Systematic Review of Public Water Fluoridation *
Done by the University of York in the United Kingdom, this is a systematic review of the best available evidence on positive and negative effects of community water fluoridation.

Review of Fluoride: Benefits and Risks
Comprehensive review and evaluation of the public health benefits and risks of fluoride from drinking water and other sources by the U.S. Public Health Service.

Source

Surgeons General Statements on Community Water Fluoridation
The past five Surgeons General supported community water fluoridation and encouraged communities to fluoridate their water. Here are the most recent three statements.

2004, Richard H. Carmona, MD, MPH, FACS, VADM, USPHS

2001, David Satcher, MD, PhD

1995, Audrey F. Manley, MD, MPH

Source

Water fluoridation has undergone extensive scientific review to assess its public health benefits and risks. For many years, panels of experts from different health and scientific fields have provided strong evidence that water fluoridation is safe and effective.

Source

The National Academy of Sciences (NAS) is one of four organizations that comprise the National Academies*—the other three are the National Academy of Engineering, the Institute of Medicine, and the National Research Council (NRC). The National Academies perform an unparalleled public service by bringing together committees of experts in all areas of scientific and technological endeavor. These experts serve pro bono to advise the federal government and the general public on scientific and technological issues that affect people’s lives worldwide.

There have been several reports and booklets by the NAS and NRC with references to water fluoridation.

Source, and the reports themselves

Scientific and public health organizations have conducted scientific reviews about fluoridation during the past two decades. These reviews provide compelling evidence that community water fluoridation is a safe and effective method for reducing tooth decay across all ages.

United States Public Health Service Review of Fluoride: Benefits and Risks, 1991
This report provides a comprehensive review and evaluation of the public health benefits and risks of fluoride from drinking water and other sources.

Institute of Medicine Dietary Reference Guidelines, 1997*
These guidelines describe the dietary reference intakes for specific nutrients known to be beneficial to health including fluoride.

Source

The list goes on. The evidence is absolutely overwhelming. Fluoride in the amounts that it is added to drinking water is safe. The fact that in greater concentrations it can be poisonous is irrelevant; we don't consume it at those concentrations.

reply to post by baddmove


Thank You, most times I rely on my own research and try to convince others based upon that research. Once again I have been shown the error of my ways and will steadily rely upon archived and researched information.

I realize that was not the intent of your post, nonetheless I was humbled by a well researched and documented reply. Best to stick to the facts. Thanks for reminding me.

reply to post by OnceReturned


It doesn't matter my friend, there is no reason we should have any amount of fluoride in our water, none what so ever..Fluoride is a pollutant - a by-product of copper, iron and aluminum manufacturing. The problem of how to legally dispose of fluoride was solved in the 1930's when a study (funded by one of the country's largest aluminum companies) concluded that fluoride prevented tooth decay
Got fluoride? did you read that part? i posted it again for you...

reply to post by TheRoadLessTraveled


No problem my friend, this Fluoride issue has always irked me, i hate it when people really believe we actually need fluoride in our drinking/bathing water..

reply to post by baddmove


Well what do you make of the actual studies linked above? Are the entire medical and scientific communities in on the conspiracy? Do you have a better source than the "Global Healing Center?" They, and you, conveniently failed to provide a reference to any relevant studies.

The only specific sources cited in your article are either pro-fluoride(the Dr. for Consumer Reports, who you left out of your copy and paste, and the Dannon ad itself) or are in reference to inapplicable levels of fluoride. Other anti-fluoride studies are mentioned, but not cited and not mentioned in a specifically identifying way. What if I want to look them up because I don't believe you?

The game of citing studies is one that you will lose. The medical and scientific communities have taken a definite stance on the issue: fluoridation of community water is safe and effective.

reply to post by TheRoadLessTraveled


Well, OnceReturned answered your last post, I would still like to know where you got this from.

...was used by Germans during the Holocaust to make prisoners docile and dumbed down.