The perfect torture weapon?

The Pentagon has put the finishing touches on their newest 'non-lethal' weapon. Their �Active Denial System� a directed energy beam weapon can heat up the top layers of skin and cause extreme pain without any lasting effects other than temporary red skin.

www.sacbee.com...

The obvious use for this other than area denial is information gathering aka intergation. What a tool!, "You'd better talk, or you'll get the beam." If the volunteers who tested it couldn't handle more than 3 seconds before bowing out, imagine the poor saps who will be on the receiving end in future Abu Ghraibs with future Lyndie Englands pressing the button.

I personally don't like the idea of 'non-lethal' weapons. Using a weapon should be a hard decision to make, to take the life of another. But non-lethals seem to be more like toys or cool gadgets to be used liberally, after all, they're non-lethal. Although some people have adverse reactions to other mostly non-lethal weapons. Don't you worry about your local sheriff having his beam-stick? I'm sure he wouldn't mind using it, after all there's no damage, so there's no problem, it�s non-lethal.

So what do you think, non-lethals good or bad? This one in particular, and the weapons as torture devices, inevitable?

You would rather have the police or other authorities fire live rounds when trying to break up a riot or the like? They are still working on other technologies because there is a need to have some other response than lethal force. Anything can be subverted from it's original purpose.

A sensory deprivation tank is still the best method in cracking uncooperatives.
Most can't last 40 hours before suffering a psychotic snap.

If they are fried and crispy, your only going to breed resentment from the strong willed ones.

As part of its larger MK-ULTRA project the CIA gave money to Dr. Ewen Cameron, at McGill University. Cameron was a pioneer in the sensory-deprivation techniques for which Jonathan Alter has issued his approval. Cameron once locked up a woman in a small white box for thirty-five days, deprived of light, smell and sound. The CIA doctors were amazed at this dose, knowing that their own experiments with a sensory deprivation tank in 1955 had induced severe psychological reactions in less than forty hours

www.thirdworldtraveler.com...

I knew a guy that used to be an executive at a toy company that came up with a line of Non-Lethal Warriors. It was the 70's I think so guns were on the out. Anyway, he said his team got a Pentagon invite to brainstorm Non-lethal weapons ideas like "Slick Trick" ...a teflon bomb for air-strips.

Don't know what came of it, so if WALT BARIC ever googles his own name, please come share.

(Though probably not in the War on Terrorism forum.)

NM - He comes up all over the web for Sci-Fi and Fantasy conventions now. He'll never see this.

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by RANT]

But they wouldn't be fried and crispy. No actual damage, just the pain. That is why it would make such a good weapon of torture.

Imagine what days of it would be like, maybe 3 seconds on (or 4 or 5...) then time off, like a pendulum. I would dare say that overuse though torture could cause these people to become less attuned to pain mentally. Super terrorists who feel no pain, oops! Just like medicine we tackle the problem from the wrong side, cure the disease, get the criminal, while we should be preventing the disease as well as the crime. Punishment doesn't reduce crime; reduce the environments and social dynamics in which crime breeds or terror as the case may be and you will make a difference.

I've heard a lot of Americans say that they are not worried about American troops turning on them because they are Americans and they would never fire on their countrymen. With this I agree for the most part. But would your countrymen be so hesitant with a pain beam weapons?

Pain keeps you grounded in reality, absence of senses drives you psychotic.

I say drug them up with psychotropics, stick them in a sensory deprivation tank and poof in a day you'll have what you want. They will have no perception of reality and a mind devoid of that can't rationally hide the truth.

I think the microwave gun would be a more fun for Thanatos, rather than a CIA tool for getting answers.

There is more to torture then just pain I think and I think Regenmacher
makes a good point with sensory deprivation, it could also be pushed the other way for a sensory overload...... I think. It makes sence that they would both have a similar effect as they're both out of line with reality, which is defined my a regular medium of sensory input.

Whats the perfect torture weapon? Ask Abner Louima...I hope he got every ounce of cash he could get from the state of New York after what happened to him!

Originally posted by Regenmacher
A sensory deprivation tank is still the best method in cracking uncooperatives.
Most can't last 40 hours before suffering a psychotic snap.

If they are fried and crispy, your only going to breed resentment from the strong willed ones.

Errr....no. It depends on the person. For the use of sensory deprivation, you pick on the John Wayne types. In Korea, they had GIs who suffered weeks and weeks of horrific torture, yet would not break. however, half a day after throwing them in sendep, they were bawling like babies.

Then again, you throw a more creative person into sendep, and it'll take quite literally months to break them.

DE

I hadn't heard of Abner Louima until you mentioned him.

The assault on Abner Louima involved the officers "shoving a wooden stick into his rectum and mouth while his hands were handcuffed behind his back." Louima suffered a torn bladder and intestine and required several surgeries to repair the damage.

Bad Cops Victim: Abner Louima

actually these kind of weapons are called "less than lethal" like with the active denial weapon if set high enough or used on a dehidrated person could cook your insides or send the body into shock, in certain conditions such weapons can be lethal.

Originally posted by DeusEx
Then again, you throw a more creative person into sendep, and it'll take quite literally months to break them.

Good point DeusEx, the creative ones might enjoy OBE'ing the whole period. Especially if they had the discipline of a buddhist monk.

BUT, that's where the psychotropics come in to break down those last walls of defense. I would have a hard time believing anyone can last on a 40 hour acid trip or similiar product without cracking up. I'm sure the CIA has designer drugs no one has ever heard of.

Admittedly from the CIA and others, torture isn't the best way to get information out of something. But if the boys (and girls) in Abu Ghraib had these toys don't you think they would abuse them. It's a lot more fun then throwing Achmed into a tank for a day or so. Also its a very portible and quick as opposed to a sensory deprivation tank.

I would have a hard time believing anyone can last on a 40 hour acid trip or similiar product without cracking up.

I did , I did. And I didn't crack up, crack up, crack up, crrracckkk uppp....

What the Hell was that? Did you hear that? I ....I gotta go now.....uhhhhhh

It's got me!! Ahhhggg , no ! not the peanut butter again! paaaleeaaaseee!


Heehee

Personaly I think the ultimate torture would be being forced to watch reality TV for 3 straight hours.

Forgive me for I am sleep deprived. Only 3 more hours to go.


Nutzo

A very pointy stick, you should constantly poke someone until they give up(poke for about 10-15 mins)...

Shattered OUT...

Finger and toe nail, and eye extraction, using a pair of pliers.

Shattered Skies, Wing Epyon Rocks!

Tomas De Torquemada, pictured below...





...was believed to be the worlds foremost authority on torture. He lived during the 1490's and died in 1498. One of his favorite torture methods was strapping a victim to a large wheel while starting a small fire underneath. He would position the victim, still attached to the wheel, just high enough that he didn't burn but close enough that layers of skin fell off, leaving exposed flesh to get infected and puss-ridden...gangrene slowly setting in. This method would also let smoke enter the lungs, but not too much as to kill the victim...just enough that he spit up mouth foam...this practice pleased Torquemada greatly as he would drink the foam that spewed forth. The sight of the wheel was usually enough to make the victim confess even to a crime he/she did not commit in order to elude such punishment. If the sight of it didn't work, the wheel was then employed and all of the above effects would befall the victim...later on that day in the cell, Torquemada would go to the torture victim, having recently been released and reeling and agonizing in great pain, Torquemada would say something like "If you tell me what I want to know, I'll make the pain stop." The victims always talked at this point...and after they fessed up, he would always be sure to tell the victim that he changed his mind.




[edit on 033030p://u30. by Hard Red]

Yea, I'd be worried about people using this weapon to get a confession to a crime they didn't commit. I just hope they know what information the person might know and when to stop prying...

Here is the official factsheet for it:

www.de.afrl.af.mil...




[edit on 8-6-2004 by roswellite]