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A fundamentalist Christians view on Masonry
page: 7share:
As I’m still new to ATS, I find saying this distasteful & feel out of place doing it… yet I feel I must ask, “Is pettiness, pride and the need
to be 100% right 100% of the time all that lies at the core of the truth-seeking ATS members?”
While I don’t think so, I do feel that those who fearlessly pursue truth- no matter where that truth may lead… are- sadly, even here- in the vast minority. So many of you consider yourselves “intellectuals” but act like anything but. There is a difference between forcefully but honorably supporting your point and breaking your neck to get your bitter, petty, replies posted as fast as possible, just so you can get the last word.
Intellect is not the only thing on display here gentlemen but also your spirit. This is just another reflection of who you really are and after reading my “U2U’s”, I assure you, I am not the only one who is looking or has noticed.
Unfortunately, many contributors to this thread (supporting the claim that Masonry has nothing to do with Satan) have not scrutinized my preceding comments before adding their own. Admittedly, I for one am always short on time- so I understand the temptation, nonetheless, I must respectfully request that before you put your two-cents-worth in to this discussion, you at least see if anyone else in the thread has offered a dollar’s worth. That self-serving habit of just “jumpin’ in the Kool-Aid without knowing the flavor”, does little to further the issues at the core of the discussion, but does much to lengthen and erode it. In the end, watering down the thread into a boring, redundant, hall of echoes and mirrors.
As I listen to you speak, it seems almost like you are so anxious to chime-in, that you don’t really take the time to stop and think- or even read- what has already been said… not only by me but by others as well.
Now I’m not saying you shouldn’t say what’s on your mind, but the desire to have your opinion heard should be regulated above all, by an adult, humble and unselfish desire, to see the truth revealed and celebrated- even if it is contrary to your previously held opinions. This is the standard I hold myself to and thus, feel I have a right to expect it from others (continue reading to see how this kind of, open-mindedness forced me to adjust one of my beliefs after investigating comments made by some of the Masons here).
I’d like to think that most of the members of ATS are smarter than the average person and stronger in mind and spirit. I would hope that rather than being followers, my fellow members are respectable, dignified leaders who are not only here to advance their own agendas, but to find and reveal truth. I wanted to associate myself with people like this. When I joined, that’s what I signed on for.
[edit on 8-5-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]
While I don’t think so, I do feel that those who fearlessly pursue truth- no matter where that truth may lead… are- sadly, even here- in the vast minority. So many of you consider yourselves “intellectuals” but act like anything but. There is a difference between forcefully but honorably supporting your point and breaking your neck to get your bitter, petty, replies posted as fast as possible, just so you can get the last word.
Intellect is not the only thing on display here gentlemen but also your spirit. This is just another reflection of who you really are and after reading my “U2U’s”, I assure you, I am not the only one who is looking or has noticed.
Unfortunately, many contributors to this thread (supporting the claim that Masonry has nothing to do with Satan) have not scrutinized my preceding comments before adding their own. Admittedly, I for one am always short on time- so I understand the temptation, nonetheless, I must respectfully request that before you put your two-cents-worth in to this discussion, you at least see if anyone else in the thread has offered a dollar’s worth. That self-serving habit of just “jumpin’ in the Kool-Aid without knowing the flavor”, does little to further the issues at the core of the discussion, but does much to lengthen and erode it. In the end, watering down the thread into a boring, redundant, hall of echoes and mirrors.
As I listen to you speak, it seems almost like you are so anxious to chime-in, that you don’t really take the time to stop and think- or even read- what has already been said… not only by me but by others as well.
Now I’m not saying you shouldn’t say what’s on your mind, but the desire to have your opinion heard should be regulated above all, by an adult, humble and unselfish desire, to see the truth revealed and celebrated- even if it is contrary to your previously held opinions. This is the standard I hold myself to and thus, feel I have a right to expect it from others (continue reading to see how this kind of, open-mindedness forced me to adjust one of my beliefs after investigating comments made by some of the Masons here).
I’d like to think that most of the members of ATS are smarter than the average person and stronger in mind and spirit. I would hope that rather than being followers, my fellow members are respectable, dignified leaders who are not only here to advance their own agendas, but to find and reveal truth. I wanted to associate myself with people like this. When I joined, that’s what I signed on for.
[edit on 8-5-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]
So before you rush into the fray, check your self, your comments and your motives because believe it or not, your words not only locate you but show
people who and what you really are. If my image of ATS members is not you, but you still feel the need to contribute, please try to act like it does
and at least respectfully CONSIDER and if necessary, RESEARCH what others have to say. If we can’t even do that, then what are we really doing here?
Enjoying the sound of our fingers tapping the keys?
One more thing… I don’t know about anyone else but I’m not here to argue for the sake of getting attention or to seem important. I get more than enough attention in my real, offline, life for any average three people and am sufficiently confident to require no external validation. If you can’t say the same, perhaps you need to rethink your reasons for being here. I am here only to lead people to the truth of Jesus. …to expose and destroy the works of the enemy, to strengthen the faith of new Christians and to convince those open to the Holy Spirit of God’s love, sovereignty and character. As much as anyone might disagree, or hate it, the fact is, I know the way. I have found the path (and just as the enemy begins trying to plant thoughts in your head about how much of an arrogant jerk I am for saying that… let me say this: Those statements should not be taken as some kind of credit to me. It is nothing but a testament to how great and good God really is… that He would bother stooping to save someone as wretched as me). But finding the path is not enough for any true follower of Christ. To be kept, the gift of salvation must continually be given away.
So while I try to extend love and peace to all, I don’t really care if I lose any popularity contests. I seek not to please men, but only to do only as God commands. Only He can judge me.
As far as MY responses are concerned, just read ‘em and take ‘em at face value. The positions I take on Masons, Satan and Jesus are consistent and clear.
Now on to the main event, to be continued…
[edit on 8-5-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]
One more thing… I don’t know about anyone else but I’m not here to argue for the sake of getting attention or to seem important. I get more than enough attention in my real, offline, life for any average three people and am sufficiently confident to require no external validation. If you can’t say the same, perhaps you need to rethink your reasons for being here. I am here only to lead people to the truth of Jesus. …to expose and destroy the works of the enemy, to strengthen the faith of new Christians and to convince those open to the Holy Spirit of God’s love, sovereignty and character. As much as anyone might disagree, or hate it, the fact is, I know the way. I have found the path (and just as the enemy begins trying to plant thoughts in your head about how much of an arrogant jerk I am for saying that… let me say this: Those statements should not be taken as some kind of credit to me. It is nothing but a testament to how great and good God really is… that He would bother stooping to save someone as wretched as me). But finding the path is not enough for any true follower of Christ. To be kept, the gift of salvation must continually be given away.
So while I try to extend love and peace to all, I don’t really care if I lose any popularity contests. I seek not to please men, but only to do only as God commands. Only He can judge me.
As far as MY responses are concerned, just read ‘em and take ‘em at face value. The positions I take on Masons, Satan and Jesus are consistent and clear.
Now on to the main event, to be continued…
[edit on 8-5-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]
Masons on this thread, among other places, have made claims that Lucifer is not Satan /the Devil and that, contrary to popular Christian views,
“Lucifer” is not the name of the entity commonly identified as the Devil, when he was an angel in heaven- before his fall. Moreover, they say they
do not worship any such malevolent entity in whole or in part.
The reason Masons need to keep Lucifer separate from Satan is pretty obvious if one reads enough from their historic and treasured authors:
'The Book Of Black Magic' by Arthur Edward Waite 33° "First Conjuration Addressed to Emperor Lucifer. Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of Rebellious Spirits, I adjure thee to leave thine abode, in what-ever quarter of the world it may be situated and come hither to communicate with me. I command and I conjure thee in the Name of the Mighty Living God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, to appear...." page 244.
'The Lost Keys Of Freemasonry' by Manly Palmer Hall 33° "When The Mason learns that the Key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the Mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply this energy." page 48.
"The Mysteries Of Magic' by Eliphas Levi "What is more absurd and more impious than to attribute the name of Lucifer to the devil, that is, to personified evil. The intellectual Lucifer is the spirit of intelligence and love; it is the paraclete, it is the Holy Spirit, while the physical Lucifer is the great agent of universal magnetism." page 428.
Albert Pike 33°
"That which we must say to a crowd is - We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees - The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine. If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay whose deeds prove his cruelty, perdify and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him? Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also god. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two gods: darkness being necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive. Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil." Instructions to the 23 Supreme Councils of the World, July 14, 1889. Recorded by A.C. De La Rive in La Femme et l'Enfant dans la FrancMaconnerie Universelle on page 588
'The Secret Teaching Of All Ages' by Manly Palmer Hall 33° "I hereby promise the Great Spirit Lucifuge, Prince of Demons, that each year I will bring unto him a human soul to do with as it may please him, and in return Lucifuge promises to bestow upon me the treasures of the earth and fulfil my every desire for the length of my natural life. If I fail to bring him each year the offering specified above, then my own soul shall be forfeit to him. Signed..... [ Invocant signs pact with his own blood ] " page CIV.
"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the son of the morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with it's splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!" Morals and Dogma page 321
The reason Masons need to keep Lucifer separate from Satan is pretty obvious if one reads enough from their historic and treasured authors:
'The Book Of Black Magic' by Arthur Edward Waite 33° "First Conjuration Addressed to Emperor Lucifer. Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of Rebellious Spirits, I adjure thee to leave thine abode, in what-ever quarter of the world it may be situated and come hither to communicate with me. I command and I conjure thee in the Name of the Mighty Living God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, to appear...." page 244.
'The Lost Keys Of Freemasonry' by Manly Palmer Hall 33° "When The Mason learns that the Key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the Mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply this energy." page 48.
"The Mysteries Of Magic' by Eliphas Levi "What is more absurd and more impious than to attribute the name of Lucifer to the devil, that is, to personified evil. The intellectual Lucifer is the spirit of intelligence and love; it is the paraclete, it is the Holy Spirit, while the physical Lucifer is the great agent of universal magnetism." page 428.
Albert Pike 33°
"That which we must say to a crowd is - We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees - The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine. If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay whose deeds prove his cruelty, perdify and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him? Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also god. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two gods: darkness being necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive. Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil." Instructions to the 23 Supreme Councils of the World, July 14, 1889. Recorded by A.C. De La Rive in La Femme et l'Enfant dans la FrancMaconnerie Universelle on page 588
'The Secret Teaching Of All Ages' by Manly Palmer Hall 33° "I hereby promise the Great Spirit Lucifuge, Prince of Demons, that each year I will bring unto him a human soul to do with as it may please him, and in return Lucifuge promises to bestow upon me the treasures of the earth and fulfil my every desire for the length of my natural life. If I fail to bring him each year the offering specified above, then my own soul shall be forfeit to him. Signed..... [ Invocant signs pact with his own blood ] " page CIV.
"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the son of the morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with it's splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!" Morals and Dogma page 321
Kinda’ shocking if this is the first time you’ve read those quotes. But if we go back to reputable Masonic sources like this one, we see that,
according to them, even though these famous, recognized, high-ranking Masons have clearly expressed more than just a passing fancy for “Lucifer”,
they didn’t REALLY mean it the way they said it. ‘Cause since they’re Masons, they knew what these folks actually meant:
“Neither the attributes nor personification of Lucifer or Satan play any role in the beliefs or rituals of Freemasonry. The topic is only of interest insofar as anti-masonic attacks have accused Freemasonry of worshiping Lucifer. The confusion stems from such 19th century masonic authors as Albert Pike and Albert G. Mackey who have used the term "luciferian" in its classical or literary sense to refer to a search for knowledge.”
freemasonry.bcy.ca
Now dear reader, I don’t know about you, but to me, and most folks who know ducks when they see ‘em walk and hear ‘em quack, this is pretty telling stuff. Nothing about the phrase, “Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of Rebellious Spirits” can possibly be construed to refer to any sort of “literary” kind of quest for knowledge. Do these people understand English? How could the words “Emperor” and “Prince of Rebellious Spirits” mean searching? Who do they think is gonna believe that. I mean, c’mon.
…but yet and still, us “intolerant”, mean ole, Christians are all stupid and brainwashed for reading what these Masons wrote.
And kids, there’s lots, LOTS more where this came from. Now while I think these documented examples cement my point, in future replies, just for your reading pleasure, I’m going to wash their faces with more of these kinds of embarrassing Masonic quotes.
What has happened is easy to see: At the time Masonic leaders committed these doctrines to paper, mass communication as we have come to understand it, didn’t exist. Copies were harder to reproduce and easier to control. But as popular modes of communication proliferated and diversified over the years, the secret and privileged dogmas of Masonry inevitably fell into the hands of the “profane” public. As a result, Masons are forced to either disassociate themselves from the very individuals who helped lay the foundation of their doctrines or lie by claiming the statements are somehow false. But no matter how much Masons try to discredit them, these are still famous, well-known, actual quotes from their organization. And as I’ve just demonstrated, they will shamelessly do anything from calling such damning evidence “tricks or pranks”, to claiming the authors don’t really mean what they plainly said, to just plain claiming that the authors were not really Masons after all. The tireless range of excuses they concoct never cease to amaze me and are actually quite creative.
And really rather pathetic.
Isn’t it fascinating that while such teachings would not only make any God-fearing man’s flesh crawl and the staunchest atheist at least, a little leery, Masons are cool with ‘em?
This is because they have been taught that Lucifer is an acceptable role-model as he is the “bringer of light to man”, the “morning star” plus “all that & a bag of chips”. Though to many of them, particularly those in the lower ranks, Satan is considered evil, Lucifer- especially since he’s not connected to the Devil- is okey-dokey.
“Neither the attributes nor personification of Lucifer or Satan play any role in the beliefs or rituals of Freemasonry. The topic is only of interest insofar as anti-masonic attacks have accused Freemasonry of worshiping Lucifer. The confusion stems from such 19th century masonic authors as Albert Pike and Albert G. Mackey who have used the term "luciferian" in its classical or literary sense to refer to a search for knowledge.”
freemasonry.bcy.ca
Now dear reader, I don’t know about you, but to me, and most folks who know ducks when they see ‘em walk and hear ‘em quack, this is pretty telling stuff. Nothing about the phrase, “Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of Rebellious Spirits” can possibly be construed to refer to any sort of “literary” kind of quest for knowledge. Do these people understand English? How could the words “Emperor” and “Prince of Rebellious Spirits” mean searching? Who do they think is gonna believe that. I mean, c’mon.
…but yet and still, us “intolerant”, mean ole, Christians are all stupid and brainwashed for reading what these Masons wrote.
And kids, there’s lots, LOTS more where this came from. Now while I think these documented examples cement my point, in future replies, just for your reading pleasure, I’m going to wash their faces with more of these kinds of embarrassing Masonic quotes.
What has happened is easy to see: At the time Masonic leaders committed these doctrines to paper, mass communication as we have come to understand it, didn’t exist. Copies were harder to reproduce and easier to control. But as popular modes of communication proliferated and diversified over the years, the secret and privileged dogmas of Masonry inevitably fell into the hands of the “profane” public. As a result, Masons are forced to either disassociate themselves from the very individuals who helped lay the foundation of their doctrines or lie by claiming the statements are somehow false. But no matter how much Masons try to discredit them, these are still famous, well-known, actual quotes from their organization. And as I’ve just demonstrated, they will shamelessly do anything from calling such damning evidence “tricks or pranks”, to claiming the authors don’t really mean what they plainly said, to just plain claiming that the authors were not really Masons after all. The tireless range of excuses they concoct never cease to amaze me and are actually quite creative.
And really rather pathetic.
Isn’t it fascinating that while such teachings would not only make any God-fearing man’s flesh crawl and the staunchest atheist at least, a little leery, Masons are cool with ‘em?
This is because they have been taught that Lucifer is an acceptable role-model as he is the “bringer of light to man”, the “morning star” plus “all that & a bag of chips”. Though to many of them, particularly those in the lower ranks, Satan is considered evil, Lucifer- especially since he’s not connected to the Devil- is okey-dokey.
The main point of contention between Christians & Masons revolves around the “Lucifer” controversy. This is the word Christians say links this
brotherhood to Satan & evil. So to state the issue as pointedly as possible I ask: Are Masons right when they say this is not the name of the angel
who was cast out of heaven & became Satan? Or are the Christians right when they say Lucifer is none other than the Devil-- but is no longer called by
that name because he was cast out of heaven & the presence of The Creator because of his desire to usurp The Most High's throne, & is now
“Satan”, enemy of God & all His creations.
To solve this mystery as quickly as possible, here's the plain, short answer:
The Masons are right
And wrong
and the Christians are wrong
And right.
Wha-?
I know. That’s what I thought too when I discovered this. How can both be right and wrong at the same time? Well, both are right and wrong at the same time because the question as posed above- as it usually is- is not worded finely enough to cut all the way to the heart of the matter.
Thus, the following, rather lengthy and detailed explanation is in order. Get a coke or tea, take a deep breath and get ready to have this seemingly tangled mess simplified.
Point blank: In spite of the common thought among most Christians- me included until very recently- Lucifer was not the name of the being known as the Devil before his fall.
In fact, the word only appears once in the whole bible.
A careful query into this subject revealed another startling truth: the bible never tells Satan’s true, angelic name at all! So this is how the Masons were right and most Christians wrong. You see, the truth is the truth & no matter where it leads, I follow and am man enough and Christian enough to admit it. As a follower of Jesus I am necessarily also a follower & student of truth. Pride has nothing to do with what I say. No matter how anyone on either side of this debate feels, that is the truth. Anyone can research this topic themselves and if they have researched it right, will come to the same conclusion.
But-
If we examine the scriptures that mirror the one that contains the word “Lucifer”, and go deeper into the original Greek and Hebrew meanings of the words that refer to the Devil & Lucifer and combine that with a deeper understanding of the scriptures- an understanding only the Holy Spirit can give- we see that indeed the word “Lucifer” does still indeed refer to the same, exact being known as Satan and who fell from heaven. So in as much as the Masons claim that Lucifer & Satan have no connection to the same individual, they are wrong and the Christians are instead correct.
Wha--?
If by chance it sounds to you dear reader, like I just contradicted everything I just said the Masons were right about, allow me to give you some bad news: you unfortunately have a carnal, earthly, mind. And earthly, carnal, minds don’t, can’t & never will understand the spiritual things of God.
Allow me to break this down so far it shall evermore remain broke…
To do that we really need to understand 1 simple but illusive truth: “Lucifer” is not, nor has ever been the proper name of the fallen angel we refer to as Satan or the Devil. The word “Lucifer” is a title.
But
The 1 place it is used in scripture- no matter how much the Masons may hate it- does in fact refer to Satan.
I told you that Masons worship the Devil and now I’m going to prove it. I pray dear reader, whoever you may be, or are affiliated with, will open not only your mind but more importantly, your spirit to the Holy Ghost as He guides you to the truth. …oh and before any red-faced Masons go into fits jumping all over me with half-baked, emotional responses, do your cause & the thread a favor & do your homework first.
Asking Jesus to show you the truth wouldn’t hurt either… but that requires humility & admitting that some things only God can reveal… and that your intellects are not the end-all be all of wisdom.
[edit on 7-5-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]
To solve this mystery as quickly as possible, here's the plain, short answer:
The Masons are right
And wrong
and the Christians are wrong
And right.
Wha-?
I know. That’s what I thought too when I discovered this. How can both be right and wrong at the same time? Well, both are right and wrong at the same time because the question as posed above- as it usually is- is not worded finely enough to cut all the way to the heart of the matter.
Thus, the following, rather lengthy and detailed explanation is in order. Get a coke or tea, take a deep breath and get ready to have this seemingly tangled mess simplified.
Point blank: In spite of the common thought among most Christians- me included until very recently- Lucifer was not the name of the being known as the Devil before his fall.
In fact, the word only appears once in the whole bible.
A careful query into this subject revealed another startling truth: the bible never tells Satan’s true, angelic name at all! So this is how the Masons were right and most Christians wrong. You see, the truth is the truth & no matter where it leads, I follow and am man enough and Christian enough to admit it. As a follower of Jesus I am necessarily also a follower & student of truth. Pride has nothing to do with what I say. No matter how anyone on either side of this debate feels, that is the truth. Anyone can research this topic themselves and if they have researched it right, will come to the same conclusion.
But-
If we examine the scriptures that mirror the one that contains the word “Lucifer”, and go deeper into the original Greek and Hebrew meanings of the words that refer to the Devil & Lucifer and combine that with a deeper understanding of the scriptures- an understanding only the Holy Spirit can give- we see that indeed the word “Lucifer” does still indeed refer to the same, exact being known as Satan and who fell from heaven. So in as much as the Masons claim that Lucifer & Satan have no connection to the same individual, they are wrong and the Christians are instead correct.
Wha--?
If by chance it sounds to you dear reader, like I just contradicted everything I just said the Masons were right about, allow me to give you some bad news: you unfortunately have a carnal, earthly, mind. And earthly, carnal, minds don’t, can’t & never will understand the spiritual things of God.
Allow me to break this down so far it shall evermore remain broke…
To do that we really need to understand 1 simple but illusive truth: “Lucifer” is not, nor has ever been the proper name of the fallen angel we refer to as Satan or the Devil. The word “Lucifer” is a title.
But
The 1 place it is used in scripture- no matter how much the Masons may hate it- does in fact refer to Satan.
I told you that Masons worship the Devil and now I’m going to prove it. I pray dear reader, whoever you may be, or are affiliated with, will open not only your mind but more importantly, your spirit to the Holy Ghost as He guides you to the truth. …oh and before any red-faced Masons go into fits jumping all over me with half-baked, emotional responses, do your cause & the thread a favor & do your homework first.
Asking Jesus to show you the truth wouldn’t hurt either… but that requires humility & admitting that some things only God can reveal… and that your intellects are not the end-all be all of wisdom.
[edit on 7-5-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]
Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
If your U2U friend happens to show up here I would ask them; what about Masons who do not believe in the Devil/Satan?
Dude, his existence depends not a smidgen on your belief.
Since the start of this lie (not the mistaken idea that “Lucifer” is or was Satan’s name before he fell… THAT boys and girls, was by the way,
not a lie. That was an understandable oversight in the reading of the scriptures. True, that idea was wrong but a lie, by definition, has to be an
intentional effort to deceive or conceal the truth. And the lack of study on the part of Christians, while certainly confusing, is still a far cry
from outright, purposeful deception. No, that would be what the Masons did by attempting to exploit this misunderstanding by claiming “Lucifer”
had no connection whatsoever with the Devil) can be traced back to Isaiah’s use of the word “Lucifer” in the King James Version of the bible. I
don’t waste my time with other, inferior translations (if I must I can show why, but not today).
Isaiah14
4 that thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, Rev. 8.10 O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, Mt. 11.23 · 0.1 ; 0.10 ; 5.1--0.1 to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Now many Mason “authorities” on the bible claim that this passage is really nothing more than bad tidings from God- through the prophet Isaiah- to the king of Babylon. They pretty much say that all the vivid imagery of somebody deciding to elevate their throne to the heights of God’s is just the king’s ego running wild.
But is it really? …or is this just their desperate attempt to separate Lucy and Satan? A clever exploitation of a mass misunderstanding they discovered could be used to hide their true god. A means to keep on exclaiming the beauty of the “Light Bearer” with impunity?
Let’s look at this from a few different angles and with the true light of the Holy Ghost…
First of all, yes God is talking to the King of Babylon. This is the literal meaning of most of the quote’s focus. Anyone can see this.
But- and this is where spiritual information comes in…
God is not only talking to the physical king but also the spiritual king.
Wha--?
Yea. There is indeed an arrogant king in Babylon and really he has every right to be. Babylon was the bomb. But there was also another king… who was not a man. A king that was a spirit. The force behind the throne if you will. Babylon was the cradle of not only the sciences but of sorcery as well and it is well known that they worshipped many gods- Bel and Mordock just to name two.
Isaiah14
4 that thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, Rev. 8.10 O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, Mt. 11.23 · 0.1 ; 0.10 ; 5.1--0.1 to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Now many Mason “authorities” on the bible claim that this passage is really nothing more than bad tidings from God- through the prophet Isaiah- to the king of Babylon. They pretty much say that all the vivid imagery of somebody deciding to elevate their throne to the heights of God’s is just the king’s ego running wild.
But is it really? …or is this just their desperate attempt to separate Lucy and Satan? A clever exploitation of a mass misunderstanding they discovered could be used to hide their true god. A means to keep on exclaiming the beauty of the “Light Bearer” with impunity?
Let’s look at this from a few different angles and with the true light of the Holy Ghost…
First of all, yes God is talking to the King of Babylon. This is the literal meaning of most of the quote’s focus. Anyone can see this.
But- and this is where spiritual information comes in…
God is not only talking to the physical king but also the spiritual king.
Wha--?
Yea. There is indeed an arrogant king in Babylon and really he has every right to be. Babylon was the bomb. But there was also another king… who was not a man. A king that was a spirit. The force behind the throne if you will. Babylon was the cradle of not only the sciences but of sorcery as well and it is well known that they worshipped many gods- Bel and Mordock just to name two.
Now real bible scholars understand that the meanings of the Word of God are sometimes layered, multifaceted & thus all but impervious to casual
observation. All one needs to do is consider the thick, layered images in the book of Revelation for proof. Thus, wise searchers of the Word let the
bible define itself.
What do I mean?
Whenever possible, rather than ascribing pre-conceived notions to bible terminology- and risking error- precedents are found, examined and considered for relevancy concerning the term or topic in question. Case and point: the “king of Babylon”. While the naked intellect of Masons drives them to the logical yet limited interpretation of this passage, I will show how this view lacks the important, additional, spiritual depth the Holy Spirit gives to unlock the FULL meaning.
For an example let’s go to another prophet even more celebrated than Isaiah- Daniel.
The Book of Daniel 10:
1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshaz'zar; and the thing was true, but the time appointed was long: and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision.
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.
4 And in the four and twentieth day of the first month, as I was by the side of the great river, which is Hid'dekel;
5 then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
6 his body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in color to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
7 And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves.
8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.
9 Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground.
10 And, behold, a hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands.
11 And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling.
12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
This is 1 of Daniel’s visions… but it is more. If you read it, you noticed Cyrus, king of Persia, is mentioned. So we definitely know who the king of Persia is- a man named Cyrus, right? Yes. Certainly.
And no. Certainly not.
Wha-?
If you read on you see that Dan sees a “man clothed in linen, (whose) “…body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in color to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.”
Does this sound to you like just an ordinary passer-by on the road? …or something else entirely… something spiritual? I won’t quote it here for sake of time and space, but for those not too lazy to look it up, there is another place in the bible where we find an almost identical description in Rev. 1.13-15 ; 19.12. and this one is of an angel.
Think this could be an angel too?
[edit on 8-5-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]
What do I mean?
Whenever possible, rather than ascribing pre-conceived notions to bible terminology- and risking error- precedents are found, examined and considered for relevancy concerning the term or topic in question. Case and point: the “king of Babylon”. While the naked intellect of Masons drives them to the logical yet limited interpretation of this passage, I will show how this view lacks the important, additional, spiritual depth the Holy Spirit gives to unlock the FULL meaning.
For an example let’s go to another prophet even more celebrated than Isaiah- Daniel.
The Book of Daniel 10:
1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshaz'zar; and the thing was true, but the time appointed was long: and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision.
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.
4 And in the four and twentieth day of the first month, as I was by the side of the great river, which is Hid'dekel;
5 then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
6 his body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in color to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
7 And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves.
8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.
9 Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground.
10 And, behold, a hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands.
11 And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling.
12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
This is 1 of Daniel’s visions… but it is more. If you read it, you noticed Cyrus, king of Persia, is mentioned. So we definitely know who the king of Persia is- a man named Cyrus, right? Yes. Certainly.
And no. Certainly not.
Wha-?
If you read on you see that Dan sees a “man clothed in linen, (whose) “…body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in color to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.”
Does this sound to you like just an ordinary passer-by on the road? …or something else entirely… something spiritual? I won’t quote it here for sake of time and space, but for those not too lazy to look it up, there is another place in the bible where we find an almost identical description in Rev. 1.13-15 ; 19.12. and this one is of an angel.
Think this could be an angel too?
[edit on 8-5-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]
Let’s look at more… “7 And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them,
so that they fled to hide themselves.”
Ah. Nobody else saw anything, but got spooked by something just the same. Does anyone at this point doubt that this “man” is really an angel and messenger of God?
Ok. So let’s look at what the angel says:“ O Daniel,” … “Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. 13 But the PRINCE OF THE KINGDOM OF PERSIA withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief PRINCES, came to help me; and I remained there with the KINGS OF PERSIA.
Did you catch that? An angel says that he got held up by a prince of the kingdom of Persia. Interesting huh?
Do you honestly think the prince of Persia had anyway to delay an angel? C’mon. Plus, the angel told Dan that he couldn’t get past this “prince” until another “prince” came as back up. The name of this other “prince”? Michael. Y’know… the ARCH ANGEL?
See what I’m sayin’? That there sirs is P R O O F that spiritual beings are sometimes referred to as princes and kings. That means that it is at least possible that the “Lucifer” mentioned could be spiritual too. This is how the bible talks. You have to understand this subtle, spiritual truth before you can see behind the term to the spirit behind the throne.
But is there only this one example?
Of course not. In Ephesians 6 we find this interesting quote:
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
This is where the bible defines itself quite nicely and ties up all the loose ends. In case you need it spelled out for you, Paul the author, is warning Christians here that we are in a SPIRITUAL battle. One that includes “principalities”. What is a principality? Webster’s dictionary offers these definitions:
1 a : the state, office, or authority of a prince
b : the position or responsibilities of a principal (as of a school)
2 : the territory or jurisdiction of a prince : the country that gives title to a prince
3 plural : an order of angels — see celestial hierarchy
The only one that doesn’t perfectly apply is the one that can be taken to mean principal of a school. ALL THE OTHER MEANINGS OF THIS WORD FIT THE CONTEXT PERFECTLY. “Powers” I think everyone could agree means authority of some kind. Another real telling phrase is “rulers of the darkness of this world”. Now honestly, do you really think its possible this isn’t talking about demons? The last description in Paul’s warning should really cinch it for you if you are listening to the Holy Ghost at all, “spiritual wickedness in high places” is a direct reference to both the demons that influence leaders AND the demons that inhabit the atmosphere of earth.
So I guess its safe to conclude that the “King of Babylon” could really be both a man and a spirit. Why not? The prince of Persia in Daniel was both. How else could this “prince” have held back an angel so effectively only the aid of Michael the arch angel could give him pass?
Ah. Nobody else saw anything, but got spooked by something just the same. Does anyone at this point doubt that this “man” is really an angel and messenger of God?
Ok. So let’s look at what the angel says:“ O Daniel,” … “Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. 13 But the PRINCE OF THE KINGDOM OF PERSIA withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief PRINCES, came to help me; and I remained there with the KINGS OF PERSIA.
Did you catch that? An angel says that he got held up by a prince of the kingdom of Persia. Interesting huh?
Do you honestly think the prince of Persia had anyway to delay an angel? C’mon. Plus, the angel told Dan that he couldn’t get past this “prince” until another “prince” came as back up. The name of this other “prince”? Michael. Y’know… the ARCH ANGEL?
See what I’m sayin’? That there sirs is P R O O F that spiritual beings are sometimes referred to as princes and kings. That means that it is at least possible that the “Lucifer” mentioned could be spiritual too. This is how the bible talks. You have to understand this subtle, spiritual truth before you can see behind the term to the spirit behind the throne.
But is there only this one example?
Of course not. In Ephesians 6 we find this interesting quote:
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
This is where the bible defines itself quite nicely and ties up all the loose ends. In case you need it spelled out for you, Paul the author, is warning Christians here that we are in a SPIRITUAL battle. One that includes “principalities”. What is a principality? Webster’s dictionary offers these definitions:
1 a : the state, office, or authority of a prince
b : the position or responsibilities of a principal (as of a school)
2 : the territory or jurisdiction of a prince : the country that gives title to a prince
3 plural : an order of angels — see celestial hierarchy
The only one that doesn’t perfectly apply is the one that can be taken to mean principal of a school. ALL THE OTHER MEANINGS OF THIS WORD FIT THE CONTEXT PERFECTLY. “Powers” I think everyone could agree means authority of some kind. Another real telling phrase is “rulers of the darkness of this world”. Now honestly, do you really think its possible this isn’t talking about demons? The last description in Paul’s warning should really cinch it for you if you are listening to the Holy Ghost at all, “spiritual wickedness in high places” is a direct reference to both the demons that influence leaders AND the demons that inhabit the atmosphere of earth.
So I guess its safe to conclude that the “King of Babylon” could really be both a man and a spirit. Why not? The prince of Persia in Daniel was both. How else could this “prince” have held back an angel so effectively only the aid of Michael the arch angel could give him pass?
Now that we see plainly that the King of Babylon was the spirit influencing the man on the throne as well as that man himself, the only question is,
“who was that spirit exactly?” Well, the description Isaiah 14 gives is pretty plain. Are there any other places the bible describes this?
Um, yea. …several in fact.
How about the one Masons love to say isn’t connected to Isaiah 14? Ezekiel 28.
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
This gives slightly more descriptions but is almost the exact same account as in Isaiah. Heck, he even gets called a “king”. This time of Tyrus.
See, angels are beings of order. Even in rebellion they cannot escape their nature. There is an order to angels just like there is to any other kind of organization composed of individuals. A hiarchy. I know you Masons can dig that! What Masons don’t understand is that every neighborhood, city, state and country is controlled or “lorded over” by specific, organized, demonic forces. That’s what Paul was meant by “principalities”. How many of you have a “principality” in your city or town?
Not sure how this proves Masons worship Satan? Let me make it real clear by connecting all the dots:
1. Masons freely admit “Lucy” is ok cuz he’s the “light bringer” and all-around swell chap.
2. The scripture in Isaiah is talking about 2 individuals instead of 1: The king himself and the spiritual, demonic, king behind the throne of Babylon (which I can prove is actually Satan).
3. Daniel meets an angel who was delayed by a “prince” that has to be a demonic force and is only able to get his message through to Daniel after Michael comes to his aid
4. Ezekiel makes an almost identical description to Isaiah’s by some being also referred to as a “king” but is clearly also a spiritual being
5. Paul warns the Christians in Ephesus that their fight was spiritual and against organized spiritual opposition rather than flesh and blood.
There is always more gentlemen but for now I rest my case. Masons worship the devil. I hate it too, but you still do.
Um, yea. …several in fact.
How about the one Masons love to say isn’t connected to Isaiah 14? Ezekiel 28.
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
This gives slightly more descriptions but is almost the exact same account as in Isaiah. Heck, he even gets called a “king”. This time of Tyrus.
See, angels are beings of order. Even in rebellion they cannot escape their nature. There is an order to angels just like there is to any other kind of organization composed of individuals. A hiarchy. I know you Masons can dig that! What Masons don’t understand is that every neighborhood, city, state and country is controlled or “lorded over” by specific, organized, demonic forces. That’s what Paul was meant by “principalities”. How many of you have a “principality” in your city or town?
Not sure how this proves Masons worship Satan? Let me make it real clear by connecting all the dots:
1. Masons freely admit “Lucy” is ok cuz he’s the “light bringer” and all-around swell chap.
2. The scripture in Isaiah is talking about 2 individuals instead of 1: The king himself and the spiritual, demonic, king behind the throne of Babylon (which I can prove is actually Satan).
3. Daniel meets an angel who was delayed by a “prince” that has to be a demonic force and is only able to get his message through to Daniel after Michael comes to his aid
4. Ezekiel makes an almost identical description to Isaiah’s by some being also referred to as a “king” but is clearly also a spiritual being
5. Paul warns the Christians in Ephesus that their fight was spiritual and against organized spiritual opposition rather than flesh and blood.
There is always more gentlemen but for now I rest my case. Masons worship the devil. I hate it too, but you still do.
Whether they realize it or not, Masons worship Lucifer because he IS, & represents everything they (think they) want to be. "Bright" and/or
smart, powerful, beyond having to answer to any authority... etc. But they sadly are deceived.
The Word talks about the Masonic slave's spirit clearly in Timothy 3:7 when it says;
"they are ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
Masons are full of the pride born of knowledge. So they can only relate to the world & even the spirit, through mental capacity when they should widen their horizons to embrace that which cannot be understood but may still be known.
I mentioned in this thread that I am a prophet. Of course some of you have mocked me for it to be sure but then again so was Moses, John the baptist, Paul and even Jesus Himself so I gotta' be on the right track...
Besides... God decided to make me a prophet so how you or anyone wants to feel about it really don't mean a whole lot. I am still what God says I am. The thing about it is, few people ever believe REAL prophets. I guess that's part of the burden. You know the future and the secrets but no one will ever listen to you. Its like in the movies. We've all seen it hundreds of times. Everybody laughs at the "crazy" dude but before that film ends you find out HE was the only one who was right after all.
But let me put on a suit and tie and crack a smile so wide my ears have to move just to fit it on my head, lie like a rug & screw you all seven ways to Sunday, you'd all probably think I was the best thing since salt. But that's this doomed world. At least I can take solace in knowing I don't have much longer to suffer in it. Thank you Lord!!!
...my point though in bringing it up, other than to give God glory for giving a worm like me such a gift, is to try to explain what its like when He hits me with something. I may have a vision or dream or just an overwhelming feeling...
but the thing is, I KNOW. I can't explain it except to say "God told me", but I still know. Somebody out there feels me & knows exactly what I'm talkin' 'bout. Whatever the message is, He just drops it directly into my spirit. It completely bypasses my brain & seems to go right to my heart! At the time it never makes sense to me & I'm usually so baffled by the experience I usually don't believe what He told me myself for a while. In fact I always try to be skeptical to keep myself in check. But no matter how skeptical I am or how much I may try to "figure it out", when it comes to spiritual things, they can only be approached spiritually. The same way I know God exists. I haven't seen Him or heard His speaking voice but I know just as surely as I feel the tug of gravity that He is there, real & full of love. As far as spiritual things go, you just gotta' FEEL your way through 'em. It takes time but if you trust God, you eventually learn how to listen to His small, still, soft promptings and take Him at His Word. Bless His name!
But Masons won't surrender their pride long enough to admit their brains just might be finite. Oh well. One day they too will have to face the infinite and unknown power of my God.
Romans 1 says more about this kind of intellectual demon...
20 “…so that they are without excuse:
21 because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools…”
The problem with their world-view was well evidenced by this post’s revelations about the deeper, hidden, spiritual meanings in the scriptures.
James 3
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Pure, earthly wisdom can never lead to true spiritual enlightenment.
Corinthians 1
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish, foolishness; but unto us which are saved, it is the power of God.
[edit on 8-5-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]
The Word talks about the Masonic slave's spirit clearly in Timothy 3:7 when it says;
"they are ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
Masons are full of the pride born of knowledge. So they can only relate to the world & even the spirit, through mental capacity when they should widen their horizons to embrace that which cannot be understood but may still be known.
I mentioned in this thread that I am a prophet. Of course some of you have mocked me for it to be sure but then again so was Moses, John the baptist, Paul and even Jesus Himself so I gotta' be on the right track...
Besides... God decided to make me a prophet so how you or anyone wants to feel about it really don't mean a whole lot. I am still what God says I am. The thing about it is, few people ever believe REAL prophets. I guess that's part of the burden. You know the future and the secrets but no one will ever listen to you. Its like in the movies. We've all seen it hundreds of times. Everybody laughs at the "crazy" dude but before that film ends you find out HE was the only one who was right after all.
But let me put on a suit and tie and crack a smile so wide my ears have to move just to fit it on my head, lie like a rug & screw you all seven ways to Sunday, you'd all probably think I was the best thing since salt. But that's this doomed world. At least I can take solace in knowing I don't have much longer to suffer in it. Thank you Lord!!!
...my point though in bringing it up, other than to give God glory for giving a worm like me such a gift, is to try to explain what its like when He hits me with something. I may have a vision or dream or just an overwhelming feeling...
but the thing is, I KNOW. I can't explain it except to say "God told me", but I still know. Somebody out there feels me & knows exactly what I'm talkin' 'bout. Whatever the message is, He just drops it directly into my spirit. It completely bypasses my brain & seems to go right to my heart! At the time it never makes sense to me & I'm usually so baffled by the experience I usually don't believe what He told me myself for a while. In fact I always try to be skeptical to keep myself in check. But no matter how skeptical I am or how much I may try to "figure it out", when it comes to spiritual things, they can only be approached spiritually. The same way I know God exists. I haven't seen Him or heard His speaking voice but I know just as surely as I feel the tug of gravity that He is there, real & full of love. As far as spiritual things go, you just gotta' FEEL your way through 'em. It takes time but if you trust God, you eventually learn how to listen to His small, still, soft promptings and take Him at His Word. Bless His name!
But Masons won't surrender their pride long enough to admit their brains just might be finite. Oh well. One day they too will have to face the infinite and unknown power of my God.
Romans 1 says more about this kind of intellectual demon...
20 “…so that they are without excuse:
21 because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools…”
The problem with their world-view was well evidenced by this post’s revelations about the deeper, hidden, spiritual meanings in the scriptures.
James 3
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Pure, earthly wisdom can never lead to true spiritual enlightenment.
Corinthians 1
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish, foolishness; but unto us which are saved, it is the power of God.
[edit on 8-5-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]
Corinthians 1
19 For it is written,
I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
It doesn’t matter what you’ve done once you’ve repented. God is waiting for you.
Just look around! I beg of you all, repent!
Can’t you see all our time is almost up?
G7 Out.
19 For it is written,
I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
It doesn’t matter what you’ve done once you’ve repented. God is waiting for you.
Just look around! I beg of you all, repent!
Can’t you see all our time is almost up?
G7 Out.
Originally posted by slane69
Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
If your U2U friend happens to show up here I would ask them; what about Masons who do not believe in the Devil/Satan?
Dude, his existence depends not a smidgen on your belief.
Right.
Satan=The Tooth Fairy=Easter Bunny, i.e. it is all made up crap.
Feel free to believe in a big red guy with a pitchfork who will roast your soul for enternity in a lake of fire. I have more important things to concern myself with then fantasy beings.
[edit on 8-5-2010 by AugustusMasonicus]
Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Sorry Augustus Masonicus but Satan, Lucifer, the devil or whatever you wanna’ call him-
is not a “fantasy being”.
...oh that he was...
No Satan is not any “fantasy” of mine and neither is he a "fantasy" to many of Masonry’s own historically respected leaders. Since Satan’s been getting so much attention lately- and to keep my word to keep you Masons soaked in Lucifer-adoring quotes- why not treat ourselves to one now? Let us look at how some of your most famous, respected and high-ranking brothers felt about this so called “fantasy being”:
“Domenici Marietta 0- 33rd degree Mason has written: "Palladium is necessarily a luciferian rite. Its religion is Manichaean neo-gnostism, teaching that the divinity is dual and that lucifer is equal of Adonay, with lucifer the God of Light and Goodness struggling for humanity against Adonay the God of darkness and Evil.. Albert Pike had only specified and unveiled the dogmas of the high grades of all other masonries, for in no matter what rite, The Great architect of the Universe is not the God worshipped by Christians"”
Extract from 'Masonry - beyond the light' Wm.Schnoebelen 32nd degree Mason
Now Augustus Masonicus (do you mind if I just call you Augustus? Augustus Masonicus is kinda’ long), if you are willing to challenge your views, I can prove to you that neither me, the Bible or your own, high-ranking, historical leaders were fantasizing about Satan.
The only question is do YOU DARE to look YOUR beliefs in the…
“dun-da-da-dunnnn”
…EYE?
Just say the word and I can prove simultaneously that:
1. God exists and is the God of the Christian Bible.
2. Satan exists and is imposing his will on this world.
Now I have asked you first for a reason- one seeker of truth to another- before steering the current rectitude of the thread into an entirely different direction. We may not want to do that at this point. Naturally implied in this invitation is the prerogative to decline.
But why would you decline an invitation to hear evidence that could only lead you to more of what you claim you desire more than anything else?
…truth.
So just say the word and you got it.
Oh and just one more thing:
In spite of the fact that you and almost everyone else on this thread has postured against me, don’t think for a moment that I don’t respect (most of) you. Sure, Masons are going to burn in hell forever unless they repent- but most of you do seem sincerely interested in elevating your minds and souls and I admire that in anybody. But remember guys, wanting to elevate is not enough. One must find the right way to do so.
To the rest, I have found most of you to be gentlemen, rarely petty and for the most part, worthy opponents. But being a man of peace at my core, I don’t want opponents- worthy or otherwise. I want a loving humanity. To my fault, I do push the envelope at times in the way I say things… I can be very sharp edged and sarcastic but just know that is because I hate Satan and what he has done to the world and otherwise good men… like yourselves. Also to my fault- occasionally this manifests itself as a kind of acid that seeps into my words but please and I mean this from the heart- it is not personal or against any of you as individuals. It is Masonry I hate. Not Masons. The idea of anyone having to go to hell because they got tricked pains me. So my passion at times may seem to get the better of me but again remember, I just want to see souls saved and minds set free.
And I know my time- all our time-- is running out! So if we’re gonna do it, its gotta happen fast!
G7 Out.
[edit on 9-5-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]
Satan=The Tooth Fairy=Easter Bunny, i.e. it is all made up crap.
Feel free to believe in a big red guy with a pitchfork who will roast your soul for enternity in a lake of fire. I have more important things to concern myself with then fantasy beings.
Sorry Augustus Masonicus but Satan, Lucifer, the devil or whatever you wanna’ call him-
is not a “fantasy being”.
...oh that he was...
No Satan is not any “fantasy” of mine and neither is he a "fantasy" to many of Masonry’s own historically respected leaders. Since Satan’s been getting so much attention lately- and to keep my word to keep you Masons soaked in Lucifer-adoring quotes- why not treat ourselves to one now? Let us look at how some of your most famous, respected and high-ranking brothers felt about this so called “fantasy being”:
“Domenici Marietta 0- 33rd degree Mason has written: "Palladium is necessarily a luciferian rite. Its religion is Manichaean neo-gnostism, teaching that the divinity is dual and that lucifer is equal of Adonay, with lucifer the God of Light and Goodness struggling for humanity against Adonay the God of darkness and Evil.. Albert Pike had only specified and unveiled the dogmas of the high grades of all other masonries, for in no matter what rite, The Great architect of the Universe is not the God worshipped by Christians"”
Extract from 'Masonry - beyond the light' Wm.Schnoebelen 32nd degree Mason
Now Augustus Masonicus (do you mind if I just call you Augustus? Augustus Masonicus is kinda’ long), if you are willing to challenge your views, I can prove to you that neither me, the Bible or your own, high-ranking, historical leaders were fantasizing about Satan.
The only question is do YOU DARE to look YOUR beliefs in the…
“dun-da-da-dunnnn”
…EYE?
Just say the word and I can prove simultaneously that:
1. God exists and is the God of the Christian Bible.
2. Satan exists and is imposing his will on this world.
Now I have asked you first for a reason- one seeker of truth to another- before steering the current rectitude of the thread into an entirely different direction. We may not want to do that at this point. Naturally implied in this invitation is the prerogative to decline.
But why would you decline an invitation to hear evidence that could only lead you to more of what you claim you desire more than anything else?
…truth.
So just say the word and you got it.
Oh and just one more thing:
In spite of the fact that you and almost everyone else on this thread has postured against me, don’t think for a moment that I don’t respect (most of) you. Sure, Masons are going to burn in hell forever unless they repent- but most of you do seem sincerely interested in elevating your minds and souls and I admire that in anybody. But remember guys, wanting to elevate is not enough. One must find the right way to do so.
To the rest, I have found most of you to be gentlemen, rarely petty and for the most part, worthy opponents. But being a man of peace at my core, I don’t want opponents- worthy or otherwise. I want a loving humanity. To my fault, I do push the envelope at times in the way I say things… I can be very sharp edged and sarcastic but just know that is because I hate Satan and what he has done to the world and otherwise good men… like yourselves. Also to my fault- occasionally this manifests itself as a kind of acid that seeps into my words but please and I mean this from the heart- it is not personal or against any of you as individuals. It is Masonry I hate. Not Masons. The idea of anyone having to go to hell because they got tricked pains me. So my passion at times may seem to get the better of me but again remember, I just want to see souls saved and minds set free.
And I know my time- all our time-- is running out! So if we’re gonna do it, its gotta happen fast!
G7 Out.
[edit on 9-5-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]
Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
[snip]
Extract from 'Masonry - beyond the light' Wm.Schnoebelen 32nd degree Mason
Ah!
Would this be the self-described ex-Catholic, ex-Wiccan, ex Druidic High Priest, ex-Satanist, ex-90th Degree (aka irregular) freemason, ex-Mormon Bill Schnoebelen.
Tell me you aren't hanging your argument on that loose peg!
Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
Sorry Augustus Masonicus but Satan, Lucifer, the devil or whatever you wanna’ call him-
is not a “fantasy being”.
So says you, I say Satan is not real.
Let us look at how some of your most famous, respected and high-ranking brothers felt about this so called “fantasy being”:
“Domenici Marietta 0- 33rd degree Mason has written: "Palladium is necessarily a luciferian rite. Its religion is Manichaean neo-gnostism, teaching that the divinity is dual and that lucifer is equal of Adonay, with lucifer the God of Light and Goodness struggling for humanity against Adonay the God of darkness and Evil.. Albert Pike had only specified and unveiled the dogmas of the high grades of all other masonries, for in no matter what rite, The Great architect of the Universe is not the God worshipped by Christians"”
Extract from 'Masonry - beyond the light' Wm.Schnoebelen 32nd degree Mason
You are quoting a well known hoax. If you expect to add something to the debate then you might want to qualify your sources prior to citing them as evidence.
Now Augustus Masonicus (do you mind if I just call you Augustus? Augustus Masonicus is kinda’ long), if you are willing to challenge your views, I can prove to you that neither me, the Bible or your own, high-ranking, historical leaders were fantasizing about Satan.
No, I am quite fine with my beliefs and do not need anyone trying to witness or testify to me about what Satan is or is not. To me he is as real as Jason Vorhees and inspires the same level of fear, zero.
But why would you decline an invitation to hear evidence that could only lead you to more of what you claim you desire more than anything else?
…truth.
You see, this is where we are very, very different. I have my belief (Satan is fictitious) and you have your belief (Satan is real) yet I do not care that you believe what you do. But you, for some reason, need to convince me to believe and adhere to your dictums. No thank you.
In spite of the fact that you and almost everyone else on this thread has postured against me, don’t think for a moment that I don’t respect (most of) you.
I am not against anyone. I just do not appreciate having you preach to me and use poorly sourced references to demonize and castigate Masonry. It is just in poor taste to do so.
Sure, Masons are going to burn in hell forever unless they repent-...
So says you, I guess I better start packing my SPF 1,000,000.
I can be very sharp edged and sarcastic but just know that is because I hate Satan and what he has done to the world and otherwise good men… like yourselves.
How can something that I feel is make-believe possibly have any influence on me? Seriously.
Fake things I do not get upset about:
1) Professional wrestling
2) Satan
3) Breast implants
It is Masonry I hate. Not Masons.
For a guy who loves to preach about peace and what would Jesus do, that is an awfully troubling remark.
The idea of anyone having to go to hell because they got tricked pains me. So my passion at times may seem to get the better of me but again remember, I just want to see souls saved and minds set free.
Honestly, spare yourself the worry. I am not going to a made up place when I die and the power to save a person's soul is well beyond your capabilities.
Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Would this be the self-described ex-Catholic, ex-Wiccan, ex Druidic High Priest, ex-Satanist, ex-90th Degree (aka irregular) freemason, ex-Mormon Bill Schnoebelen.
You forgot Vampire.
Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Tell me you aren't hanging your argument on that loose peg!
Ok.
I don't mind giving back that 1 source as you all claim it a hoax. Perhaps I didn't spend enough time checking that 1. I'm man enough to be able to admit a bad call. It could be a hoax. Fair enough.
But-
ALL those quotes aren't hoaxes and you guys know it.
Maybe that's why you all are as silent on them as a morgue. So what about those? Not to mention the things from the bible. If we take one brick from a wall, it is still a wall and will continue to stand and function as a wall. So really doe, it's like this, Fitz (may I call you Fitz?), even if we subtract that one quote from my argument, the rest of it still stands. Tall. I notice you and Mr. Masonicus Himself are amazingly silent on the other 10 pages or so of facts.
Trying to reduce a solid argument to just 1 statement while the other 99.9% is tossed, is petty and smacks of desperation.
"Whooo-ooh-weee... what up 'wit 'dat"?
Or is it that you all are just scrambling to find ways to debunk it? I could at least respect that.
Well, good luck.
I'm not here just to keep an argument going or to say I won at the end. I'm here to show the world that if they allow pride and their intellects to be shaped by Masonry, they are making a mistake. Jesus told me to tell people that all of us are going to be accountable for our own souls. So yea, this is what He would do and that's why I am doing it.
Yes, I am concerned Augustus (but NOT WORRIED baby. I don't do worry or fear. It's NOT what Jesus would do. I just do PRAYER) about men's souls. Shame Mr. Masonicus sees compassion as some sort of weakness.
Oh well.
I guess high-ranking Masons can't be bothered with dumb stuff like empathy. I'll make sure I don't waste anymore on him. So this is that famous, Masonic, Light, huh?
What a scam.
But I must say, it does surprise me that Augustus wants to pass on having proof of God & Satan shared here. ...closing his eyes... hmmm...
So that's who you really are huh? A coward?!?
What a let-down. I thought you wanted to "know". I had really thought better of you. Seems I gave you more credit than you deserved. An' here I was starting to buy your "Student of History" bunk.
And he talks such a GOOD talk...
Well, I won't concern myself with him or his opinions from now on since how far he is willing to go to find "truth" is limited by his own mental omnipotence. Shake shake-shake (that's me shaking the dust from my feet.)
Thus my final words to him shall be these:
Pack as much a' that sunblock as you want dude. Just know that in Hell it ain't the sun that burns you.
[edit on 10-5-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]
And since I have withdrawn my last quote-
as it is claimed to be a hoax-
allow me to examine one of the quotes I posted- that you all coolly ignored- from Manly P. Hall, 33rd Degree:
"The day has come when Fellow Craftsman must know and apply their knowledge. The lost key to their grade is the mastery of emotion , which places the energy of the universe at their disposal. Man can only expect to be entrusted with great power by proving his ability to use it constructively and selflessly. When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of LUCIFER are in his hands, and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy. He must follow in the footsteps of his forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god hammered his sword into a plowshare." The Lost Keys of Freemasonry or The Secret of Hiram Abiff, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, Inc., Richmond, Virginia, p. 48"
www.cuttingedge.org...
Certainly also a hoax, right?
Right.
"This statement is the most bold and concise anyone can create in the English language! It boldly states that, once the Mason learns to control his emotion, and to properly apply the "dynamo of living power", he can be assured of being able to control the "seething energies of Lucifer" in his hands. Further, he admits that Masonry is the Craft, the old name for Witchcraft! Further, all Satanists are assured that, if they will join the coven and learn the Craft, he will control the supernatural power of Satan, just as Manly P. Hall is promising here."
"This is most powerful proof that Freemasonry is Satanism, because its language is direct and clear, not cluttered with deliberately confusing arcane language that only an insider can understand. Further, note that Hall and Reynold E. Blight are 33rd Degree Masons, while the Illustrator is 32nd Degree. Macoy Publishing Company is also one of the most respected of all Masonic Publishing Houses."
www.cuttingedge.org...
as it is claimed to be a hoax-
allow me to examine one of the quotes I posted- that you all coolly ignored- from Manly P. Hall, 33rd Degree:
"The day has come when Fellow Craftsman must know and apply their knowledge. The lost key to their grade is the mastery of emotion , which places the energy of the universe at their disposal. Man can only expect to be entrusted with great power by proving his ability to use it constructively and selflessly. When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of LUCIFER are in his hands, and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy. He must follow in the footsteps of his forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god hammered his sword into a plowshare." The Lost Keys of Freemasonry or The Secret of Hiram Abiff, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, Inc., Richmond, Virginia, p. 48"
www.cuttingedge.org...
Certainly also a hoax, right?
Right.
"This statement is the most bold and concise anyone can create in the English language! It boldly states that, once the Mason learns to control his emotion, and to properly apply the "dynamo of living power", he can be assured of being able to control the "seething energies of Lucifer" in his hands. Further, he admits that Masonry is the Craft, the old name for Witchcraft! Further, all Satanists are assured that, if they will join the coven and learn the Craft, he will control the supernatural power of Satan, just as Manly P. Hall is promising here."
"This is most powerful proof that Freemasonry is Satanism, because its language is direct and clear, not cluttered with deliberately confusing arcane language that only an insider can understand. Further, note that Hall and Reynold E. Blight are 33rd Degree Masons, while the Illustrator is 32nd Degree. Macoy Publishing Company is also one of the most respected of all Masonic Publishing Houses."
www.cuttingedge.org...
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