Fox News (conservatives) declare WAR against Higher Education

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

I have never heard any professor in my college make such statements. I'm sorry that you had to hear such bias, but, this is the exception, not the rule.

I hope you're right.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

 

I am a strong advocate for education. I am also against indoctrination.

So let have our higher education systems continue to help people learn to think for themselves rather than being spoon fed one version of reality as the right version.

The most important aspect of all of this is that education continues to be provided to us unhindered.

reply to post by 2manyquestions


For all four years of high school I was taught one thing in every class. White people are all bad and all black people should hate them still. We learned this in History, English, Chemistry, Physics, All maths, Humanities, whatever other useless classes I was taking. I managed to not hate white people just fine. I did learn a great deal about the other subjects though.

So I guess the lesson this thread is teaching, if you are actually reading it, is you are very rare. Not only is your experience highly unique, it only further proves that conservatives are little more than whiny little cry babies that are too weak willed to have their own set of thoughts.

Whatever people need to blame ignorance on.

There is an evangelical college near my home. I find it hard to imagine they spend much time praising liberals during their Republican fund raisers. I do not complain. I just did not go to that school. This is America and you have a choice.

That choice is also good because it really lowers the chances of anyone actually having this experience quite a bit. Is this a real problem? Well you would think at the very least, 51% of schools would have to qualify, right? Well given this thread and the Fox news talking points out of all the colleges in the country, we are not even at 1%.

Now, if you got that college education you claim to then you know enough about percentages to get this. If less than 1% of anything is guilty of a crime, does it correlate that the other 99+% just must be too?

In academic circles, you pretend to care about other cultures because it's an easy way to morally boost your ego. You'd never even consider the thought of actually living in Malmö and spending quality time together with people from different cultures, except for PR purposes--you want your all-white middle class refuge, after all. In working-class circles, immigrants actually integrate much easier, because there's less drama and more practical interaction between people. But working class people are also super-disinterested in other cultures and tend to have less tolerance for diversity in general. They prefer to harvest their own village patterns of behavior.

It's funny how the most ardent multiculti-promoters live in classy, all-white neighbourhoods without the faintest of relationships to people from other cultures. In short, multiculturalism, like third world aid, is a surrogate theory for the ignorant and privileged to appear morally superior. The real multicultural people in the West have a natural interest in other cultures, but are also the ones aware of the problems that ensue from mixing radically different cultures. Multiculturalism is going to fail, because it thrives on ignorance.

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

I definitely would not downgrade anyone for their profession. However, the problem is the fact that Fox News has attempted to denigrate the idea of Higher Education because it presents "liberal bias." I saw your last line, so, I know that you do not agree with their assessment. However, if we take away the right to education especially when funding is already being stripped from public education, eventually there will be nothing that defines us against other leading countries like Japan, China, etc. So far, our public education is rated pretty low in comparison the the rest of the industrialized nations of the world. I have to ask...WHY?

Here's a tidbit from Wikipedia that provides additional sources that can be studied:

The country has a reading literacy rate at 98% of the population over age 15,[5] while ranking below average in science and mathematics understanding compared to other developed countries.[6] In 2008, there was a 77% graduation rate from high school, below that of most developed countries.[7]

The poor performance has pushed public and private efforts such as the No Child Left Behind Act. In addition, the ratio of college-educated adults entering the workforce to general population (33%) is slightly below the mean of other developed countries (35%)[8] and rate of participation of the labor force in continuing education is high.[9] A 2000s study by Jon Miller of Michigan State University concluded that "A slightly higher proportion of American adults qualify as scientifically literate than European or Japanese adults".[10

Source:
en.wikipedia.org...

I do, however, agree with many of your assessments.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

Fox did not call for the "removal of the right to education". As for the stats you posted, most of those have to do with pre-college education. If you can't read before college then college is of no use to you. If you know nothing of science before college then it very unlikely you will ever be able to study collegiate-level science. These are moot points. ConcernedCitzen put it succinctly I think. There's no point in trying to get the ill prepared in universities, nor is there a reason to give them money for it. Send them in a more sensible direction. One that utilizes their talents.

As for college being a safeguard against low-paying jobs, really? I can introduce you to 15 people I know of with degrees who work for very little. There are many more who just can't find a job. Some guarantee that diploma was eh? And then there's the poor souls who leave with mountains of debt they will never repay. Stop with the myths. College isn't a meal ticket to success. One of my closet friends dropped out in his first year after running out of money. He just went ahead and got into sales. Made two million dollars that year, never went back to college, nor do I blame him. If your smart, you will survive. If you are not, it doesn't matter how many degrees you get, you will fail.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by antonia]

[edit on 17-2-2010 by antonia]

Originally posted by antonia
There's no point in trying to get the ill prepared in universities, nor is there a reason to give them money for it. Send them in a more sensible direction. One that utilizes their talents.

As opposed to getting the better educated to begin with? Why just settle for turning out people that can then only be sent in a sensible direction. I guess I am just a nutjob because in my America I would rather see them reform education standards instead of continuing to turn out kids that will not benefit from a college education.

I guess I am a dying breed. Instead of just saying America is the best at everything, I want it to be true so I can say it with real pride.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by K J Gunderson]

Originally posted by antonia

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

I definitely would not downgrade anyone for their profession. However, the problem is the fact that Fox News has attempted to denigrate the idea of Higher Education because it presents "liberal bias." I saw your last line, so, I know that you do not agree with their assessment. However, if we take away the right to education especially when funding is already being stripped from public education, eventually there will be nothing that defines us against other leading countries like Japan, China, etc. So far, our public education is rated pretty low in comparison the the rest of the industrialized nations of the world. I have to ask...WHY?

Here's a tidbit from Wikipedia that provides additional sources that can be studied:

The country has a reading literacy rate at 98% of the population over age 15,[5] while ranking below average in science and mathematics understanding compared to other developed countries.[6] In 2008, there was a 77% graduation rate from high school, below that of most developed countries.[7]

The poor performance has pushed public and private efforts such as the No Child Left Behind Act. In addition, the ratio of college-educated adults entering the workforce to general population (33%) is slightly below the mean of other developed countries (35%)[8] and rate of participation of the labor force in continuing education is high.[9] A 2000s study by Jon Miller of Michigan State University concluded that "A slightly higher proportion of American adults qualify as scientifically literate than European or Japanese adults".[10

Source:
en.wikipedia.org...

I do, however, agree with many of your assessments.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

Fox did not call for the "removal of the right to education". As for the stats you posted, most of those have to do with pre-college education. If you can't read before college then college is of no use to you. If you know nothing of science before college then it very unlikely you will ever be able to study collegiate-level science. These are moot points. ConcernedCitzen put it succinctly I think. There's no point in trying to get the ill prepared in universities, nor is there a reason to give them money for it. Send them in a more sensible direction. One that utilizes their talents.

As for college being a safeguard against low-paying jobs, really? I can introduce you to 15 people I know of with degrees who work for very little. There are many more who just can't find a job. Some guarantee that diploma was eh? And then there's the poor souls who leave with mountains of debt they will never repay. Stop with the myths. College isn't a meal ticket to success. One of my closet friends dropped out in his first year after running out of money. He just went ahead and got into sales. Made two million dollars that year, never went back to college, nor do I blame him. If your smart, you will survive. If you are not, it doesn't matter how many degrees you get, you will fail.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by antonia]

[edit on 17-2-2010 by antonia]

I guess you missed the point where I said I agreed with you. And, I'm pretty sure I made a point to say that the information that I posted was about public education (pre). Sorry I didn't specify.

Nonetheless, Fox's current stance on Education is not something that I can agree with.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by antonia
There's no point in trying to get the ill prepared in universities, nor is there a reason to give them money for it. Send them in a more sensible direction. One that utilizes their talents.

As opposed to getting the better educated to begin with? Why just settle for turning out people that can then only be sent in a sensible direction. I guess I am just a nutjob because in my America I would rather seem them reform education standards instead of continuing to turn out kids that will not benefit from a college education.

I guess I am a dying breed. Instead of just saying America is the best at everything, I want it to be true so I can say it with real pride.

That is an excellent point. Thanks for bringing that up.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

As opposed to getting the better educated to begin with? Why just settle for turning out people that can then only be sent in a sensible direction. I guess I am just a nutjob because in my America I would rather seem them reform education standards instead of continuing to turn out kids that will not benefit from a college education.

I guess I am a dying breed. Instead of just saying America is the best at everything, I want it to be true so I can say it with real pride.

Improve the system all you want. Not all people will benefit from college education. There will always be people who cannot handle it. There will always be people who do not want it. I don't live in a utopia fantasy land. You cannot have 56867970 chiefs and 1 Indian. I did not say Americans were the best at everything. What I'm saying is not all people are created equally. You should not expect the same potential out of everyone.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by antonia]

Originally posted by antonia
Improve the system all you want. Not all people will benefit from college education. There will always be people who cannot handle it. There will always be people who do not want it. I don't live in a utopia fantasy land. You cannot have 56867970 chiefs and 1 Indian. I did not say American were the best at everything. What I'm saying is not all people are created equally. You should not expect the same potential out of everyone.

Wow. I have some advice for you. Calm down. Take a breath. Now go and read what I actually wrote this time. You did not respond to it at all. Well, I guess I was thinking I was having an educated conversation. Why are you not out doing something useful if you cannot be intelligent?

edit to add:College is not to turn out chiefs, only better indians. Really good indians usually become chief.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by K J Gunderson]

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Wow. I have some advice for you. Calm down.

I had no idea you could ascertain someone's emotional state over the internet.

You did not respond to it at all.

I did, I told you no matter of improvement in general education would ensure all people went to college or could get through it.

Why are you not out doing something useful if you cannot be intelligent?

It was a reasoned response. You just wanted me to agree with you. I don't, sorry for your luck. The previous poster was correct in that the more people receive degrees, the less valuable degrees become. You will have a compounding problem, one in which a person will have to attain more degrees or higher ones (such as masters, doctorates) to make-up for that lack of value. There is an eventual cap to this. So in my mind, the best solution is not to ensure that everyone is smart enough to be able to get a degree. The better solution is to identify what talents people have and encourage them to move into those directions. Everyone should come to a certain standard in basic education of course, but what is the need of a person learning calculus if they have no use for it. Understand?

edit to add:College is not to turn out chiefs, only better indians. Really good indians usually become chief.

The point here is there are better and cheaper ways to churn out Indians.



[edit on 17-2-2010 by antonia]

reply to post by K J Gunderson


When we fail at something, we can always point to an external factor and blame that instead. Genes, upbringing, bad friends, rainy weather etc. There's no end to the excuses people make up, when the case is often really simple: you didn't try hard enough. The raw truth of almost every success is hard work, hard work, and endless hard work. It's true that external factors influence and often limit our work, but those are not excuses - they are conditions. You don't blame conditions; you learn to accept them and use them to reach your goals.

Originally posted by antonia
I had no idea you could ascertain someone's emotional state over the internet.

I am not sure you can. This is why I did not address your emotional state. I see you really do believe education is a bad thing.

I did, I told you no matter of improvement in general education would ensure all people went to college or could get through it.

I did not say that it would. How can you be responding to what I said when your response is wholly on an item I did not offer? You obviously missed the point of what I wrote completely. You either read something strange into it or just made up a new point to cover up for missing the real one. Whatever the case, you are arguing against an idea I did not actually present. You missed it. Should I dumb it down for you or would you like to move on?

It was a reasoned response. You just wanted me to agree with you.

I could care less if you agree. I only expect that a reply to my words actually apply to the content of them. I have crazy high standards that way.

I don't, sorry for your luck. The previous poster was correct in that the more people receive degrees, the less valuable degrees become. You will have a compounding problem, one in which a person will have to attain more degrees or higher ones (such as masters, doctorates) to make-up for that lack of value. There is an eventual cap to this. So in my mind, the best solution is not to ensure that everyone is smart enough to be able to get a degree. The better solution is to identify what talents people have and encourage them to move into those directions. Everyone should come to a certain standard in basic education of course, but what is the need of a person learning calculus if have no use for it. Understand?

I understand that that is the most ignorant thing I have ever read in my entire last 20 minutes of ATS. Apparently you have no idea the vast number of degrees and their subsequent applications. We are so far from hitting any cap that we are racing our way to the bottom. Apparently it is either or for you and the bottom looks better than the top. Whatever you want but your entire premise is completely based on the idea that we have a few degrees and they are only good for exactly one thing.

We have some time before we are overrun with college degrees.

The point here is there are better and cheaper ways to churn out Indians.

I know. I acknowledged that. Crappy, ineffective, unproductive indians. When you open your own business, feel free to turn down all the college educated indians trained to be the best at what you need done so you can find some dropouts that will do it real cheap for you. Let me know how that works out for you.

Originally posted by concernedcitizan
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

When we fail at something, we can always point to an external factor and blame that instead. Genes, upbringing, bad friends, rainy weather etc. There's no end to the excuses people make up, when the case is often really simple: you didn't try hard enough. The raw truth of almost every success is hard work, hard work, and endless hard work. It's true that external factors influence and often limit our work, but those are not excuses - they are conditions. You don't blame conditions; you learn to accept them and use them to reach your goals.

Getting a proper education is hard work. I never once discounted hard work.

Let me try it this way. The purpose of college is not to make lazy people. It is to give people better tools to do the job that needs to be done. It might be great that Joe Smith is willing to work his ass off for 16 hours a day 6 days a week. I am still not going to him when my pancreatitis flairs up. How about you?

Maybe I can make it even more simple. Lets you need a carpenter and two guys show up, one with a trailer full of tools and the other with a hammer. Now hammerguy might be a real hard worker. Chances are good that the other guy had to work pretty hard to get those tools and know what to do with them. If he sucks, then he can be replaced by another guy with a bunch of great tools. The guy with the hammer is always only going to be good for putting nails in and getting them out - no matter how hard he works.

Knowledge is a set of better tools. There is no Chief degree.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
I am not sure you can. This is why I did not address your emotional state. I see you really do believe education is a bad thing.

You told me to calm down. You know what calm means right? You were telling me to change my emotional state because you thought i was distressed in some way. I never said education was a bad thing.

I understand that that is the most ignorant thing I have ever read in my entire last 20 minutes of ATS. Apparently you have no idea the vast number of degrees and their subsequent applications. We are so far from hitting any cap that we are racing our way to the bottom. Apparently it is either or for you and the bottom looks better than the top. Whatever you want but your entire premise is completely based on the idea that we have a few degrees and they are only good for exactly one thing.

We have some time before we are overrun with college degrees.

Actually, you don't have much time. The stats were posted earlier. This is simple economics-supply and demand. The more of something there is, the less valuable it is.

When you open your own business, feel free to turn down all the college educated indians trained to be the best at what you need done so you can find some dropouts that will do it real cheap for you. Let me know how that works out for you.

Depends on what the business is. If it's something requiring a certain skill, then yes, I should look for those who has been to a specific program or college. If I'm opening a bar and I need a waitress, well i probably shouldn't worry so much about who has a degree should I?

[edit on 17-2-2010 by antonia]

[edit on 17-2-2010 by antonia]

This is the best point made on this thread so far. I could not have said it better myself, and if I could give you an applause, I certainly would. Regardless of what anyone may say, this last paragraph really sums up the point of the thread and should be looked at carefully. You could literally write an entire book on this premise.

Star from me.

I know. I acknowledged that. Crappy, ineffective, unproductive indians. When you open your own business, feel free to turn down all the college educated indians trained to be the best at what you need done so you can find some dropouts that will do it real cheap for you. Let me know how that works out for you.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

Originally posted by antonia
You told me to calm down. You know what calm means right? You were telling me to change my emotional state because you thought i was distressed in some way. I never said education was a bad thing.

All I can do for now is sigh. Perhaps I can get back to you later but I am not optimistic about this conversation. Calm is not an emotion. Telling you to calm down is not addressing your emotional state. If we were both educated, we would both know that. Then this conversation would be interesting. I am still left just wondering why you are not out being useful since you are obviously not worried about being educated. You did claim we need more indians being productive, correct?

Calm is not an emotion. Being calm is not an emotional state. I never addressed your emotions. Now be a good little indian and do something useful because you are not educated enough to sit around and talk. This is your concept so please demonstrate it for me.

reply to post by K J Gunderson

calm
  /kɑm; older kæm; spelling pron. kɑlm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kahm; older kam; spelling pron. kahlm] Show IPA adjective, -er, -est, noun, verb
–adjective
1. without rough motion; still or nearly still: a calm sea.
2. not windy or stormy: a calm day.
3. free from excitement or passion; tranquil: a calm face; a calm manner.
–noun
4. freedom from motion or disturbance; stillness.
5. Meteorology. wind speed of less than 1 mph (0.447 m/sec).
6. freedom from agitation, excitement, or passion; tranquillity; serenity: She faced the possibility of death with complete calm.
–verb (used with object)
7. to make calm: He calmed the excited dog.
–verb (used without object)
8. to become calm (usually fol. by down).

Keep trying.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by antonia]

Originally posted by antonia
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

calm
  /kɑm; older kæm; spelling pron. kɑlm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kahm; older kam; spelling pron. kahlm] Show IPA adjective, -er, -est, noun, verb
–adjective
1. without rough motion; still or nearly still: a calm sea.
2. not windy or stormy: a calm day.
3. free from excitement or passion; tranquil: a calm face; a calm manner.
–noun
4. freedom from motion or disturbance; stillness.
5. Meteorology. wind speed of less than 1 mph (0.447 m/sec).
6. freedom from agitation, excitement, or passion; tranquillity; serenity: She faced the possibility of death with complete calm.
–verb (used with object)
7. to make calm: He calmed the excited dog.
–verb (used without object)
8. to become calm (usually fol. by down).

Keep trying.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by antonia]

LOL. Highlight the one that says it is an emotion for me will you please? I know what it means. You posted what I know it means. Where does it say it is an emotion?

Allow me to help. Something that is defined as an emotion will have emotion in the definition. Agitated, serene, tranquil, excited - all also not emotions. You keep trying and U2U me when you get it right.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by K J Gunderson]

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


Interesting how you misrepresented what was on that video. They were reporting on and discussing a study. If you have to lie to make a point, you don't have a point to make. Other than of course you can't be trusted.

I'm neither a Republican or a Democrat. I should not have to say that, but I'm sure anyone pointing out your bias will be labeled and you will likely label me.

Since Universities were a Far Left environment in the early seventies when I attended, I have no doubt they still are. Professors have never made a secret of the fact they are Democrats for the most part and they do in fact push their politics on students. I know they did in the schools I attended.

It took me years to get the brainwashing out of my head. As I realized much of what they told me turned out to be untrue, I woke up. I know now that both those on the far left and right are the problem. Intolerant bigots, all of them on both sides.

It is truly hard for reasonable moderates to deal with the radical nature of Professors while trying to learn facts while being programed. I think that is what the study was truly about. Being brainwashed to either side should not happen in school. That is the same method used by people like Mao.

Luckily the vast majority of us are moderate independents who do the work and pick up the pieces, while the fringe runs around like chickens with their heads cut off.

Bush = Obama
Obama = Bush

Simple math. When you learn that, you will be enlightened. Stop hating and start thinking. It's not that hard.