Woman evicted and house condemned for using solar power

reply to post by Dramey


It was the woman's fault she was evicted - she knew what she was doing was going to get her evicted, and yet decided to do nothing. That does not mean that the city is not also wrong in not providing support or explaining its reasons. I checked the Avondale municipal code and I can't find anything relating to electricity requirements.

The two positions, that the lady and the city are in the wrong, are not mutually exclusive.

This lady's rights were clearly violated they had no right to come in there like a bunch of criminal communist thugs and do that to her.

This whole green thing is nothing but a scam anyways to control and tax this country to death while the big corporations make money off it.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


the homeowner's association may have had their own rules, but it was the city, enforcing their rules I do believe that is at the heart of the matter.

I have a coworker at work that is even now trying to find some help, if he doesn't find it, well, they will be cutting his electricity off. I really don't see how threatening with homelessness would help matters much, probably would make things worse. We are working part time hours at work at the present, ecnomic conditions, and well, you can harp all ya want about how he should find a better paying job, and maybe he could....but, well, I've been looking and I got to tell ya, I'm not seeing any that I would seriously consider myself for that doesn't have the stipulation that I would physically be able to do, like lifting 50 to 100 lbs. And well, some of these jobs probably are paying less that what we are making now.
As far as her downgrading her housing arrangements, well...she owned the house, ya, I imagine that she could have just given the house back to the bank and ignored that obligation, but there's a pretty good chance that there is no way she could have sold that house and gotten enough out of it to settle that debt. So, well, that's the two choices there.

Sometimes, things just get to a point, where there really isn't much you can do!!

but, well, as I see it, it isn't about the homeowner's association or thier rules, since the rules that were enforce were city codes. and, it isn't about solar energy, either. it's about a person's ability to pay an electric bill, and well, should failure to do so result in the city evicting you from you house and condemning it till you get the electricity turned on.

And, I've got to tell ya something, there's alot of people who can't afford their electric bill, and well, they will never have this happen to them, regardless of how irresponsible they are. Ya see, there's a program called heap, and if you make under a certain amount of money (dependent on family size), all or part of that bill will be paid by the taxpayer...in this case the one sleeping in the car because she was evicted from her home, quite possibly because she couldn't afford her bill!
so, well, you can gripe all you want about her irresponsibility being the cause, the fact of the matter is that she worked, held a good paying job, got laid off from that job, took a crap job to tide her over, and well, thus, she didn't have the money for the electricity. bet if she went out and got herself pregnant, well, they would have never turned off the electiricity to begin with. at least not for non-payment...the meter tampering, well, if it was proven she did it, that might have got it cut off.
but, there's a heck of alot of people out there being more irresponsible than she could ever dream of being, and well, it was her tax money being used also to make sure they had a nice comfortable warm home, with electricity, to live in!






[edit on 1-2-2010 by dawnstar]

reply to post by crusaderiam


You should try reading the article and not just spouting on about communists.

She knew the law, she decided to keep on disobeying it, and through doing that violated the building codes. This has nothing to do with communism, or the 'green thing'. She could have been using a dirty old ancient diesel engine instead of solar panels, and the exact same thing would have happened.

reply to post by davesidious


Well,let's just hope you never find yourself in the position where you can't pay your electric bill,but if you do I'm sure you won't mind giving up the house you have been residing in to the government, right? I guess you will just hand them the keys and walk away? Then You can say it was your fault and you should have known better.

I will tell you, you may find yourself in this situation before you even know it, that is, unless you're in the 5% of the country's top wage earners.

reply to post by ldyserenity


She had enough money for some solar cells, didn't she? There are plenty of ways to get assistance from the city if you can't afford to pay for your bills.

I don't live in the US. I live in a country where no one ever, ever has to be homeless for whatever reason. So I'll never be homeless, ever.

Double post although I never hit the button twice?

[edit on 1-2-2010 by ldyserenity]

reply to post by davesidious


Lucky you. But, there isn't always assistance for everyone,you see here in America they can deny that assisstance for a myriad of reasons, even bogus ones, I have three children and everytime I applied for assisstancee between working lay-offs I got denied, heating assisstance In NJ during a blizzard I was denied, I made 10.50 an hour for five years before I ever went for the assistance, was flat out denied I paid into those programs 25 percent of the entire yeild for just that ONE job, I was denied I only ever got assisstance twice, food only, that's it, and then the first time we were cut off for Not attending our mandatory employment evaluation, which we HAD attended, like I said they can do and say anything they want to to deny you or cut you off and "Lose" the paperwork that in fact proves that they are liars and shady. Don't tell me about the system, you don't live here, you have no idea at all what you're talking about, I do I have dealt with these skanks enough to know and I have worked from the time I was 16 paying into that system and only 1/3 of that time could get a refund on my taxes compared to all those I paid into the system! That's the government for you take, take, take, and never give to those really working their butts off, they'd rather give it to the illegals and the drug addicted slum queens who pop out babies every year. I stopped at three, and worked my A** off to keep everything paid, for the most part without any help and there were times we were 1000s of dollars in debt to the electric and paid it off eventually, but we were shut off for months at a time, thank GOD they never evicted us just for this, we didn't even have any electric at all. No help, from nobody. If I had known how to N* rig a solar cell I would have, bet you that. Of course that is if I could find one second hand. But, since you stated you aren't from the US you are totally in the dark about how anything works in this country.

[edit on 1-2-2010 by ldyserenity]

[edit on 1-2-2010 by ldyserenity]

reply to post by davesidious

how much help there is for you is dependent on alot of things. location is one, where I am living now, well, ya she could probably get help through charity organizations. But, it seems like the more liberal a state gov't is, the less charity there is to help you. And, well....the gov't programs fall short when it comes to helping everyone who truly needs help. It seems too rigid, unable to accomodate for many circumstances that life might throw at you. they just look at your income, your family size, you assetts, and well, then their outdated underestimated income charts to see if you qualify.
You could be throwing you whole income into buying an expensive drug regimen that is the only thing keeping you alive and they would way you made too much money to get help!

reply to post by dawnstar


I understand how things can get to a point where there is nothing you can do. But I really don't think that that was the case here. I re-read the article just in case I missed something and I did.

First. It said that her electricity was cut off in January of '09, and that her house was condemned in December of '09. That's almost 1 full year without electricity. I'm actually kind of surprised that her house wasn't condemned earlier, like say in July or August. I lived in Phoenix [Avondale is a suburb of Phoenix] for 15 years and summer temps of 115 degrees is not uncommon.

Second. It stated that her house has 3 bedrooms. Nowhere is there a mention of children. 1 year was ample enough time to find 1 or 2 roomates to help share the expenses. All she had to do was explain her situation and I'm sure in time she could have found someone and they both, or all 3. could have shared all the expenses with so it would be financially easier on them all. In these hard times people are doing this more and more to help make ends meet.

Third. The article states that code enforcers tried to contact her twice but she never replied back. The same probably happened with A.P.S.

Fourth. It states that she is IN DANGER of losing her house, that she hasn't been evicted.

It kinda seems to me that she simply didn't communicate with anyone about her situation and tried to take matters into her own hands and failed. I know personally that A.P.S. takes payment plans and they will work with you to keep your electricity on. They WANT your money.

I don't think she did any of this so she could "go green". She just wanted to stick it to the man, to the system that she felt was screwing her over while at the same time she was screwing herself over because she didn't know what she was doing and didn't ask for help.

The saddest part of this whole story is that there are millions of Americans who are in roughly the same boat as she is.

I can sympathize with her situation, but I can't sympathize with how she got there.



Peace

Originally posted by mikellmikell
I have a friend who built a house way back in his 240 acres of woods. Did it all by the codes but when he went to move in they wouldn't give him the final permit because he wasn't grid connected. never during the whole building process did they bring it up. He's been living it for 15 or so years now and it's never been brought up again and he pays no taxes on it because the paperwork was never finalized. Strange world we live in.

Sounds almost like a dream with not beeing hooked up to the grid and not pay tax....where is this world I'm looking for it

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

She had enough money for some solar cells, didn't she? There are plenty of ways to get assistance from the city if you can't afford to pay for your bills.

I don't live in the US. I live in a country where no one ever, ever has to be homeless for whatever reason. So I'll never be homeless, ever.

now i will no longer respond to your posts after this

i have to be honest, you seem to just be trolling

the only thing you offer is that it is her fault

you dont provide anything other then that

you keep bringing up things that have been discussed in length

so for the last time

its more then probable that she was able to purchase the equipment before becoming broke, i dont know about where you live, but here many people are losing their jobs every day, personally i dont care what the government says about the jobs they created, they still arent affecting the little guy in anyway that is noticeable


on top of that you state you dont even live in the USA so your opinion about the many ways we have to get government help is speculation at best


as a person who has himself tried to go through the system to get government help, it is not as easy as many make it out to be, especially when you dont have children, however if you are an immigrant with children trust there are plenty of funds for you


there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of people who need government help but are not eligible for one reason or another

if you wish to tell us about government help in your country, well maybe thats a different story, but as for here, well why dont you come on over and try to get it , i bet youd get it before she ever could


and just to be clear, there are not plenty of ways, there are a few and most are dead ends unless you are a migrant or have children, or a disability


even those with disabilities often have an incredibly hard time proving it in this country


many people with true disabilities take years to end up getting their social security disability or any other type of government funds to help them get by and usually only get it after going through a lawyer


how do i know this? not from books or articles but from personal experience going through it, and watching friends and family members personally go through it


Ive also personally dealt with heap and other government groups who Sometimes are able to slightly help people


look at the way this country works


lets say you are on a fixed income with ssd, or maybe you are someone who took a retirement plan with kodak or another major corporation and then they recently decided to cancel your health policy which has happened to many, then the electric companies raise or double their prices like they have been doing everywhere here


now you no longer have enough money from ssd to pay that electric bill

here are your options

1. go to a charity like salvation army or some church
2. go to heap
3. go to a case worker
4. borrow money

now heres the thing with those options

they are a one time thing usually, heap i believe only helps twice a year at most, the rest happen once a year at best, so now maybe youve been able to pay the bill 4 times out of the year at best, often times heap will not pay the entire bill, at least from my personal experiences and those i know who have gone through the same situation


now the person is on disability or some other fixed income, 4 months are paid, now the 5th month comes up, what do you do?

government help is used up, youve borrowed from everyone you know and are now in debt not only to companies but to kind hearted friends

now how do you pay the next bill when its been raised by $50-$100 and up?


is that when you become a prostitute?
is that when you start to sell drugs?
is that when you sell all of your belongings for a single month of electricity?
is that when you go rob a bank or some other place of business? (bank thefts are on the rise at least in my city it seems at least once a week a bank gets hit)


no you downgrade, because thats so easy, especially when you are on a fixed income and have a mortgage and past due utility bills, its really easy for a person to get help and downgrade then (hopefully everyone catches the sarcastic tone there)


no actually youre right and all the rest of us are wrong, it was all her fault

its also all of the rest of the hundreds of thousands of peoples faults who are experiencing the same or similar situations all around our country, and you know exactly how it is here especially since you dont live here


thats like saying its the haitians fault the buildings collapsed



edited to add, one thing i would love to know, is where is this magical country you speak of where no one can be homeless?

and so what do they do if you are homeless? do they kill you or throw you in jail if you become homeless? thats the only way i could figure out to not have homeless people and thats definitely not a good solution

[edit on 2-2-2010 by Dramey]

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
reply to post by dawnstar

 

I understand how things can get to a point where there is nothing you can do. But I really don't think that that was the case here. I re-read the article just in case I missed something and I did.

First. It said that her electricity was cut off in January of '09, and that her house was condemned in December of '09. That's almost 1 full year without electricity. I'm actually kind of surprised that her house wasn't condemned earlier, like say in July or August. I lived in Phoenix [Avondale is a suburb of Phoenix] for 15 years and summer temps of 115 degrees is not uncommon.

Second. It stated that her house has 3 bedrooms. Nowhere is there a mention of children. 1 year was ample enough time to find 1 or 2 roomates to help share the expenses. All she had to do was explain her situation and I'm sure in time she could have found someone and they both, or all 3. could have shared all the expenses with so it would be financially easier on them all. In these hard times people are doing this more and more to help make ends meet.

Third. The article states that code enforcers tried to contact her twice but she never replied back. The same probably happened with A.P.S.

Fourth. It states that she is IN DANGER of losing her house, that she hasn't been evicted.

It kinda seems to me that she simply didn't communicate with anyone about her situation and tried to take matters into her own hands and failed. I know personally that A.P.S. takes payment plans and they will work with you to keep your electricity on. They WANT your money.

I don't think she did any of this so she could "go green". She just wanted to stick it to the man, to the system that she felt was screwing her over while at the same time she was screwing herself over because she didn't know what she was doing and didn't ask for help.

The saddest part of this whole story is that there are millions of Americans who are in roughly the same boat as she is.

I can sympathize with her situation, but I can't sympathize with how she got there.



Peace

not sure about your electric company, but i know in southern california and western ny, they do payment plans, but your service isnt turned back on until that last dime is paid if it has already been turned off

in the areas im speaking about they were called being on a budget, that would allow you to pay so much a month for a year then pay the balance at the end of the cycle, but thats only if you can afford to make that payment on a monthly basis


also if she didnt lose her house or get kicked out or anything according to you

then why did it state she had to sleep in her car?

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by davesidious

 

how much help there is for you is dependent on alot of things. location is one, where I am living now, well, ya she could probably get help through charity organizations. But, it seems like the more liberal a state gov't is, the less charity there is to help you. And, well....the gov't programs fall short when it comes to helping everyone who truly needs help. It seems too rigid, unable to accomodate for many circumstances that life might throw at you. they just look at your income, your family size, you assetts, and well, then their outdated underestimated income charts to see if you qualify.
You could be throwing you whole income into buying an expensive drug regimen that is the only thing keeping you alive and they would way you made too much money to get help!

you bring up a great point that hasnt been mentioned

prescription drugs and health care

i have known plenty of elderly people who had to make very tough choices on whether to buy their medicine for the month or pay the bills


on top of that, ive heard of certain drugs that may cost hundreds of dollars here, but are sold for pennies on the dollar in other country, which is something i am sure many outside of the USA do not understand

I smell a major class action lawsuit being drafted up as we speak.

Just because someone can't afford to pay the what is now normal 20 - 35% rate increases every single year for electricity they are somehow wrong for trying to alleviate the costs by installing panels? I do not care as this is the perfect case of overstepping by any Governmental entity if I've ever seen one myself.

Even if she could say put her computer, fridge, tv, entertainment center all on solar then she could keep the rest attached to the line no biggie.

Your computer, air conditioner, refrigerator and any boilers are the largest drains of power to any house. My house we pay for 2 hot water heaters, a basement level boiler, full electricity to the basement, hallway, porch and a 3 car garage.

Get your neighbours involved in a massive community wide protest against any entity who seeks to block the self sufficiency of a neighbourhood. Organize, do research and shut them down before they shut us all down.

Cabaret,

This has clearly nothing to do with slum conditions. In the USA is is mandatory that you must have an electrical hookup to any apartment you rent. No landlord can offer an apartment without an electrical hookup. Then it becomes an illegal apartment subjecting the landlord to fines and penalties out the wazoo however it is up to the individual tennant to call up the local power company and get the connections turned on. In the USA it's also law that a landlord must provide heat for the apartment as well. In a co-op or condo with central heating the homeowner's association is solely responsible for it's maitenance and upkeep. Landlords however are under no obligation legally to provide a refrigerator, air conditioner or even a stove. All plumbing connections are ordered in tip top working order and the landlord is solely responsible for it's upkeep.

In New Jersey there is a program that one can sign up with that will help convert their homes to solar with no legal implications to the end consumer as well as providing grants to finance the operation. PSE&G (Public Service Electric & Gas, Co.) will buy from you any overlay for a profit and in return will use it to run their own generators. Trenton, NJ has already been told to not interfere and make sure that all homes and business that have solar is legal and above board.

Scrips and medical bills are a major factor in determining what gets paid when. Most are facing the difficult desicion as to wether or not to pay their scrip or pay for food or heating. More then half of the families in The US alone this very early February morning last night went to sleep in total darkness just to be able to provide their kids with something to eat.

It would not suprise me if greater then 65% of US children eat at school as their only meal as well as kleptoing lunch food for dinner to make sure that their famlies eat something instead of nothing.

[edit on 2-2-2010 by TheImmaculateD1]

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by davesidious

 

Lucky you. But, there isn't always assistance for everyone,you see here in America they can deny that assisstance for a myriad of reasons, even bogus ones, I have three children and everytime I applied for assisstancee between working lay-offs I got denied, heating assisstance In NJ during a blizzard I was denied, I made 10.50 an hour for five years before I ever went for the assistance, was flat out denied I paid into those programs 25 percent of the entire yeild for just that ONE job, I was denied I only ever got assisstance twice, food only, that's it, and then the first time we were cut off for Not attending our mandatory employment evaluation, which we HAD attended, like I said they can do and say anything they want to to deny you or cut you off and "Lose" the paperwork that in fact proves that they are liars and shady. Don't tell me about the system, you don't live here, you have no idea at all what you're talking about, I do I have dealt with these skanks enough to know and I have worked from the time I was 16 paying into that system and only 1/3 of that time could get a refund on my taxes compared to all those I paid into the system! That's the government for you take, take, take, and never give to those really working their butts off, they'd rather give it to the illegals and the drug addicted slum queens who pop out babies every year. I stopped at three, and worked my A** off to keep everything paid, for the most part without any help and there were times we were 1000s of dollars in debt to the electric and paid it off eventually, but we were shut off for months at a time, thank GOD they never evicted us just for this, we didn't even have any electric at all. No help, from nobody. If I had known how to N* rig a solar cell I would have, bet you that. Of course that is if I could find one second hand. But, since you stated you aren't from the US you are totally in the dark about how anything works in this country.

[edit on 1-2-2010 by ldyserenity]

[edit on 1-2-2010 by ldyserenity]

very good post that is spoken from experience, which is truly the only way to understand how our system works

this situation makes me wonder however

it makes me wonder how many arguments take place in ats, because people have no clue how things are in the area in question

sure maybe in other countries its one way, but as for this topic, we are talking about things in america, which are very different from someones experience outside of america

that would be like me trying to argue with a haitian over the type of government help they can get

id simply be talking out of my ass if i tried to argue with them even if i didnt realize how much different things are here then there, and i truly think many people who argue certain things here on ats, just have a completely different perspective from the topic at hand


this doesnt necessarily make them bad people, it just simply means they cant comprehend how different things can be in different areas


ats would definitely benefit if people could try to put things in perspective as a big picture rather then thinking things are only one way across the whole world

as much as we like to say we are all equal, its not true in the least bit and things vary extremely from place to place


however one thing that shouldnt vary, is that you shouldnt be thrown out of a house over a utility situation plain and simple

reply to post by Dramey


also, I got a feeling that if you went out and started renting rooms in a house without electricity, well, if the city is willing to condemn your house for not having it, well...can't imagine what they'd do if you decided to rent rooms in it...
I got a feeling that there are a few laws, guidelines, possibly even inspections before you can start renting rooms to people!

and, well, if she rented a room to someone that had kids, at least here, the school system that enrolled the kid might notice. Since they compare the school roster with city records to make sure they are residents in the area that the school serves. One of my friends ran into that problem when he rented an unregistered apartment and the school had a fit, saying they weren't residents....that the house was only one family.

reply to post by Dramey


She could of sold those solar panels for a nice sum of money. The system was not installed correctly, it was a huge hazard being turned on, each of those batteries is a ticking time bomb.

And its not sell everything you own, how about sell the solar panels that are causing so much trouble. Or the fancy car shes driving for a cheaper one? who knows what else is inside the nice big house? nice big screen TV, stainless steel kitchen. im only speculating though, you can downgrade, does it suck yes, but I will do what I have to do.

and it wouldn't be your not buying enough water, it would be you don't have the resources to get enough water. stop taking things out of context.

No I don't think its right, but this lady had options. I think she ignored a very obvious one.

Originally posted by ohhwataloser
reply to post by Dramey

 

She could of sold those solar panels for a nice sum of money. The system was not installed correctly, it was a huge hazard being turned on, each of those batteries is a ticking time bomb.

And its not sell everything you own, how about sell the solar panels that are causing so much trouble. Or the fancy car shes driving for a cheaper one? who knows what else is inside the nice big house? nice big screen TV, stainless steel kitchen. im only speculating though, you can downgrade, does it suck yes, but I will do what I have to do.

and it wouldn't be your not buying enough water, it would be you don't have the resources to get enough water. stop taking things out of context.

No I don't think its right, but this lady had options. I think she ignored a very obvious one.

im not a pro electrician but i would imagine if she could run a big screen, she could probably run a fridge, so the house never wouldve been condemned for the reason they gave


the whole point, is that they threw her out for insufficient electricity because she didnt have a fridge and proper heating


she wasnt thrown out for fire hazards or a dirty house which other people have brought up because of the batteries or whatever


she had the house condemned for not having enough electricity to run a fridge


do we know how much she owed on the past due electric bill


lets say she sells the solar panels to maybe pay off her bill and have 1-2 months worth of electric left over, then what does she do after that?


now she already sold her panels, so gets no electricity from there, and they turned off the electricity because she cant afford the month to month cost, now what?


to me the major point in this story is that people are currently broke, times are hard, and instead of making laws that benefit us, that are fair and reasonable, they create laws that are solely about them making more and more money and something needs to be done about that


look whats happened recently


we sold our elections to the highest bidder
we cut our space funding and handed things over to the private sector
we condemn houses for not having enough electricity from the power company


the 1st time i saw idiocracy i thought it was an ok stupid movie

watching it again with everything thats taking place in our political climate, it seems much more like legitimate foreshadowing and prophecy then some made up comedy


everythings being sold to the highest bidder and our rights are becoming more and more subject to the almighty worthless dollar

on to of that, you talk about downgrading the car or house

if she is behind on the mortgage or car payments she cant exactly just go get rid of them and get a cheaper one, things just arent that simple

lets say she even tries to sell the house to downgrade

how long will that take?

selling a house USUALLY isnt an overnight thing anymore, the housing market isnt what it used to be, theres a lot more vacancies then buyers right now

just to further clarify

the house was not condemned for fire hazards or safety issues or cleanliness

it was condemned for not having enough electricity to power a fridge and provide "adequate heating" by city standards


so when people accuse her of living fancy or having some great house with all modern appliances just doesnt make sense and is nothing but extreme speculation


so according to the officials, this wasnt even about the fact she was using solar power (thats what they want us to believe so they can get away with it)


one thing that puzzles me though

this is supposedly a free country

yet many people accept the fact that we have to have a permit for every single thing we wish to do on our OWN PROPERTY

why is that ok and allowed and accepted

i mean seriously, permits for house addons or fences or pools or solar power, seems ridiculous in a free country to me


it isnt so free when you have to pay to do everything

[edit on 2-2-2010 by Dramey]