If you are not a Native American, you're an 'Anchor Baby' (the decendent of an illegal alien)!

Originally posted by seasoul
The earth belongs to no man, it for all of humanity to share equally.

To argue that I was here before you or you were here before me, is the argument of a spoiled child.

It is the greed and irresponsible behavior of man, which has turned many parts of our earth into a living hell.

There is no point in fighting with one another over something that does not "belong" to us, no matter what our race, color, or creed might be.

There is more than enough land for all of us. We just need to learn how to share it, responsibly.

STOP ARGUING LIKE SPOILED CHILDREN, OVER SOMETHING THAT RIGHTFULLY “BELONGS” TO NO MAN!


[edit on 27-1-2010 by seasoul]

I agree with this post 100% why the he** cant Earth inhabitors share everything and move on to better things VERY SAD TO KNOW YOU CAN GO CUT YOUR SINK ON AND IT WILL RUN CONTINOUSLY FOR DAYS WASTING DRINKABLE WATER WHY IN THE SAME DAY THERE ARE PEOPLE W/ NO CLEAN WATER "RIGHT NOW" MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL SHARE TO AVOID E.L.E. MAKES PERFECT SENSE.
And its not just the white man who has played the devil all races have played devil and conqured and oppressed ITS A FLAW IN HUMANITY IMPLANTED BY NATAS TO SEEK -POWER- AND MOST CANNOT GAIN POWER W/O DESTRUCTION

[edit on 1/27/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Same here. I'm a descendant of an immigrant who knocked up native american. Now I'm in a a real dilemma...

Indians, Indians, Indians, or "native Americans" dont run this counrty so no one takes anything from them.

This subject is always moot.

We have the usual 'blame the immigrants' crowd here in the UK as well. Something goes wrong - 'blame the immigrants'.

It's a fallacious and quite frankly moronic argument. Want to know why?

Because YOU, the so called 'natives' of your country have implemented a flawed system that these 'immigrants' can take advantage of, not to mention all of the 'natives' that are taking wrongful advantage as well - but then they don't count do they because they're not the 'others'!?!?

Seriously, if it annoys you that some folks are abusing the system - CHANGE THE SYSTEM. Don't sit there and hide your thinly veiled racism behind a 'blame it on the immigrants' slogan.

Parallex.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


I resent your statements Sir.

People have been coming to the US for a long time. For most of this country's brief history, immigration wasnt at the problematic level it is now. Not every immigrant came here illegally. Do you remember Ellis Island?

When my grandparents and great grandparents fled Europe during the first and second world wars, it was not illegal for them to come to the US and make a new life. They became citizens, (which took years) and paid taxes their whole lives.
My other side of the family was living in Southern California before it became annexed as part of the US (due to conquest). My great great great grandfather was a high ranking Mexican general prior to this war with the US. To try and keep the mexican people from rebelling, they made him the first Governor of California. His name was Figueroa and many streets and places in Los Angeles bear his name sake. The mexican side of my family has never been illegal and has always paid taxes and paid their medical bills.
Although I feel for the mexican people who are fleeing in hopes of a better life, the main problem with illegal immigration is its ILLEGAL. If anyone wants to come here and live a better life do it the right way.
The problem we're facing here in So Cal is so many people come here illegally knowing they're pregnant, just to have their baby for free in a nice hospital, thus making their baby a US citizen and anchoring them here. Now we're facing overcrowding of hospitals and bankruptcies of hospitals, making it worse for everyone. People come here and work the system, taking advantage of people like myself, who work their asses off to pay bills and rising healthcare costs.
If you want to come here, great. But do it the right way. Dont break the law, then expect rights and a free financial ride. And please, please, dont come here talking about how screwed up our country is, while you proudly wave the flag of the country you fled from. If its that bad for you here, Im sorry, but go home.

[edit on 27-1-2010 by WhiteDevil013]

There seems to be a lot of folks who think that the world should be a free roam.... as in, 'no one owns anything'. And while that misty vision of utopia might be preferable, the truth is that nations have staked out boundaries since the beginning of our species. Not only that, Native American tribes had nations that followed rough boundaries that there were indeed tribal wars fought over.

For those who hate your country... ee-ville America? The truth is that, no, it ain't perfect and never has been. But in contrast, it does pretty well because if you were someplace else, you might not even have the right to say that.

Some here say they wish America would be conquered by another country. Great idea! Then you can learn to hate those who take its place too.

Now, I know I am no longer young enough to know everything but... I hope that someday, we can learn to appreciate who and what we are, regardless of who or what that may be, instead of spitting all over it for what it is not.

But if not... and if the gesture helps, I hope you all get your perfect world where you don't have to work to eat and live, don't have to worry about borders and never own any property that you can call your own. A tranquil existence without schools or teachers, roads or electricity, hot water or computers. Just the flowers in the meadows and birds tweeting that toil not.

May the peace of the fantasy be with you always

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


OP - You said it yourself that because native americans did not have any immigration control system in place, their way of life was destroyed, by immigrants.

I say lets learn from the past and do not let immigration threaten our way of life.

What a load of hooie.

Evey country has the right to control who enters and leaves that country.

Before 1965 immigration was controlled by the Labor Department. When we needed workers, we increased the quota's for immigrants. When we had high unemployment, we decreased the quota's. This was an attempt to match available workers with available jobs. After 1965 immigration became it's own department.

Limits on immigration are now, not attached to the need (or not) for available labor.

In the past 30 years or so, both the Republicans and Democrats have turned a bind eye towards illegal immigration. It was a source of cheap labor. Now, in a number of states it has become a problem.

I live in California which currently can't pay it's bills. However due to Federal mandates, the state must provide welfare to families if they have a child that is a citizen. This support is about $1600 per month for a family of 4. So there is an incentive for people who are not citizens, to sneak across the border, have a baby in a great hospital (that they don't pay for) and then immediately apply for welfare. The state has to pay the welfare. That is the anchor baby phenomenon that people complain about. Right now, we have kids that live in Mexico, crossing the border every morning to go to school. The family's are receiving aid from the state and don't even bother to live here. The cost of illegal immigration to the state of California is about 10 billion dollars per year.

The 14th amendment to the constitution (if you're born here you're a citizen) was passed so that children of former slaves couldn't be rein slaved. It was not intended to create a situation where a family receives welfare while living in a different county.

So, I am not against legal immigration. Our county was built on it. I'm not against welfare for citizens who need help. I am against people that scam the system.

So, lets reform immigration and get rid of the schizophrenic system that we now have that encourages people to sneak across the border to scam the system and instead encourages people who truely wnat to come here to be part of this country.

Originally posted by ll__raine__ll
reply to post by JPhish

 

became americans? i think you are the one who is missing the whole point of the OP. and that is ... you stole the land you are all living on now. you bullied your way onto it, you conned your way onto it and you probably fought and murdered your way onto it.

You're a white person in New Zealand, so why is the pot calling the kettle black?

Originally posted by Wormwood Squirm

Oh and an illegal alien is not just some race other than white or native American, that term means an illegal entry into the US without following the rules and it doesnt matter where in the hell you were born. Follow the rules and you are welcome to come to America.

Rules written by the invaders!

My grandmother was a full blooded Crow. I can't effect what happened hundreds of years ago, only today. Today, since my birth, for 35 years I've been an American. I'm proud of it. What our country stands for. After some growing pains this is the greatest country in the world. And I don''t view non native americans as illegals, you are my American brothers and sisters. As far as people coming into the country illegaly, imo they are thieves.

You have two families: "Bob American" and "Jose' Illegal". Both
families
have two parents, two children, and live in California. Bob American
works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00
per hour with taxes deducted. Jose' Illegal also works in construction,
has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the
table".. Ready? Now pay attention...

Bob: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per
year.
Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Bob now has $31,231.00.

Jose' : $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00
per
year.
Jose Illegal pays no taxes.. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Bob pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his
family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year.
Bob now has $24,031.00.

Jose' has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local
clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year.
Jose' Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Bob makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or
welfare.
Bob $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Bob now has
$18,031.00.

Jose' has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and
welfare..
Jose' Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Bob pays rent of $1,200..00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year.
Bob now has $9,631.00.

Jose' receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal
pays $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year.
Jose' still has $ 31,200.00.

Bob pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance.
Bob now has $7,231.00.

Jose' Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still
has
$31,200.00.

Bob has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.

Jose' has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline,
and
what he sends out of the country every month..

Bob now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
work.

Jose' has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Bob's and Jose's children both attend the same school. Bob pays for his
children's lunches while Jose' Illegal's children get a government
sponsored lunch.
Jose's children have an after school ESL program. Bob's children go
home.

Bob and Jose' Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but
Bob paid for them and Jose' did not pay a dime.

I welcome everyone who wishes to come here and immigrate legally. Those who sneak in and steal from us; if your born in another country the opportunity to be an American is a privelege, not a right. Earn it, pay your dues, and come here the right way.

I don't know who the OP is trying to identify as the "white man," but my relatives came here legally through Ellis Island. In addition, the Natives never claimed to "own" the land therefore nothing was stolen. I agree that we have destroyed the lands that Natives once inhabited.

What really ticks me off is these self-righteous jack-holes that like to reference the 1600's when debating current illegal immigration. If you have to go back almost 400 years for your argument, maybe you should rethink your argument.

Regardless, as always, the illegal immigrant topic isn't actually being discussed, it is being skated around. Pointing fingers at what people did 400, 300, 200 years ago, while I find the history interesting, is really a waste. At some point we have to accept the past and focus on the now/future.

JaxxonRoberts, you're damn right. And one can hardly disagree with that based on honest arguments.

Moreover, USA and Canada have developed through a massive stealth of land by the Europeans, since they imposed property "rights" on lands that gave exclusive benefit to the owners while totally excluding Native people from walking these lands and using them for their survival. And land land just kept being stolen this way, year after year. The colonization of the Far West was the biggest operation of stealth since the government "gave away" vast territories to poor immigrants from Europe (who were mostly illegal back then) who dared going all the way West to establish themselves. and both provided them with the services of the Cavalry (or the Mounted Police in Canada) and legalized some forms of gangsterism ("pistoleros" or "gunslingers" they were called) in order to defend these stolen lands. Generations later, Hollywood made a big show out of it, with the "Western" genre of movies, which turned the former gangsters into heroes defending the weak, and the legitimate inhabitants of the land, the Natives, into a bunch of savage brigands and cannibals. In that same fashion, in a not too distant future, we probably gonna have movies (or whatever will be the dominant media) about Blackwater mercenaries defending small American towns against EVIL civil libertarians who grow and sell pot, sequester childrens and shoot people everywhere with their baaad, baaad, firearms...

Now today, Native people got isolated into small pieces of land, spaces they sometimes had to defend through bloody political struggles with the occupational State, while corporations were given the right to own areas that are many times bigger than all of remaining Native lands, and to totally screw up the environment on it! WE are the invaders, WE are the illegal immigrants. As long as we do not respect this land and especially SHARE it, we are just perpetuating this stealth, and negating our own legitimacy to exist here.

[edit on 27/1/10 by Echtelion]

Originally posted by psilo simon
Well said mate.

That cannot be argued with.



S&F

Really, it can't? What if our great grandparents were given citizenship at Ellis Island? You know, they went through steps A-Z to be granted citizenship?

There is a big difference between someone who is a foreign alien who follows the admission process and someone who breaks the laws to become a resident here.

You are either lawless and selfish, or you are not.

reply to post by DrJay1975


Well said!

Although Im sure you will be attacked for using "Jose Illegal" as an example, I laughed out of sheer frustration and shared feelings. But, looking at the math, now I just want to cry.

You brought up a valid point though. My father owns two construction companies, both union. There was once a time in this country when people liked the educated union workers, even if it cost more. Now, people would rather pay Jose $15/ hour to do a shoddy job, (without a contracting license) than pay Joe the Plumber $25 to do a good job and pay his taxes.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
So the next time you are whining about the damn 'illegal aliens', I suggest you go look in a mirror, and unless a Native American face is staring back at you, remember that you are the decendant of an 'illegal alien' (none of us were 'invited').

What happened to the part that we won and it is now our country? We won so we make the rules/laws, we won so we get to say who is legal and illegal, we won so we can kick anyone out at our choosing.

What part of “we won” do you not understand?

Can you tell me what country is not unlike us? History is history, and today we face a surge of people who entered our borders in an illegal way and are now sucking many states dry. Is there any country in the world that has open borders, and are willing to let any number of non-citizens to enter and drain their tax dollars. Should we just open the borders and give everyone citizenship as they cross the line into our country?

reply to post by skoalman88


Too many people can't let go of the past,that is why it still rears it's
ugly head,time to time.We could all have a better future,if we all let
go of the past and learn from our past mistakes.

The history of the world is the history of migrations of people.

Now, we have 6 billion plus people here on the planet. Things are getting crowded.

The land has been divided into nations. Was that legal?
Do people have a right to move from one nation to another? Ask some North Koreans about this right.

I think that the OP is suffering from some sort of guilt complex. So he/she posts about how the white man stole the land from the Native Americans.

Get over it, it's history.

Do the Arab nations still have a claim on Spain?
Does Rome have a claim on England?


It's all history. Learn from it and don't repeat the mistakes.

The white man loved this country. If the native americans did they would have protected it. They were dumb and just invited the white man with open arms and then when things got ugly it was to late to do anything bc so many white men were here. The natives didn't deserve this land. Get over it op the superior race won thats life. If you want something take it. If you don't want it taken protect it.

reply to post by DrJay1975


Well said and stared.

My wife is a legal immigrant who is an American citizen. We have been working for eight years to sponsor her sister to get a green card to work in this country.

I have a question; since I was actually born here as were my parents does that not make me a Native America? Since at one time even the Indians colonized the Americas from a across the Bering Strait and maybe even through Europe I would guess everyone of us are in the same boat, but what makes us all equal is we were born here or legally immigrated here.

How far back does the OP want to go…hehe