If Jesus Is God.......

reply to post by oliveoil

The son of God (Jesus) would be, simply put, God.

That is an honorary title.
In the Gospels, it is attached to the concept of being a king.
"You are the son of God, the Christ", meaning the anointed one, the king.
Paul says Jesus was raised with power, appointed son of God.
There isn't a use of the phrase that would suggest that it be taken literally.

reply to post by oliveoil

I was wondering when you would chime in oliveoil, welcome to the thread.

The son of God (Jesus) would be, simply put, God. You dont need a Bible to figure this out.

This is the problem, you think we don't need the bible to decide truth. You are defeated by that very statement.

The son of God is also a god small "g" which mutes your point as well.

Originally posted by oliveoil
Here is some simple logic maybe you can understand

What would a son of a goat be? a goat.
What would a son of a horse be? a horse
What would a son of a dog be? a dog
What would a son of a man be? a man
I think you get the point. The son of God (Jesus) would be, simply put, God. You dont need a Bible to figure this out.

lets examine your "logic"

you have a goat. you bring in it's "son", how many goats do you have?

2!

take a horse, add his son... how many horses do you have?

2!

a dog... add his son....

2!

man... his son....

2!

none of the examples you stated show a son who IS his own father.

so how can Jesus the SON of God actually BE god?

its simple logic really

Originally posted by Joecroft
Hey Miriam…Welcome back …
I haven’t seen you around in ages…Where have you been…

better actually. i took the time to live life instead of being on the computer lol.

unfortunately i got sick again :bnghd:

Ironically it is the doctrines that come from man, that are keeping Christians separated, rather than uniting them.

it makes me think of a scripture

john 4:[23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

its interesting that christians that care about the truth are united in belief

reply to post by miriam0566


so with your logic, jesus after glorification was not ONE with god.
being one is not a feeling,

it's not, oh i feel so one with god,
lets say to the world i am one with my father,
and lets say to the world i do not have will,
because its only his will, which makes the will i feel,
his will (after glorification) , but we say this, not
because it is true, just because me jesus 'feels
so one, so romantic one with the father that i will
call it like that', this is the lie of religion,
preaching against themselves.

with saying jesus is not one, you ridicule your own gospel,
although i understand your point of view,
and i understand what you speak of is the teaching of religion,
teaching against itself. the bible is the truth, but lets not see
what it really says, that is religion until this day.

so glorification does not mean becoming free ?
it does not mean not having guild ?
so what does it mean ? how can you be free,
and not living gods will, and what is free in gods will
becomes gods will, becomes god.


[edit on 26-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

god is one, but we all do not believe in oneness,
thats how everyone here reacts on the gospel.

The ones speaking for religion,
and the ones here speaking for oneness defending salvation through the self, but forgetting the self is one, not a human body only.
Aaand, the ones not believing, not realising there exsistance is enough proof for an absolute truth (god) that is free in it's highest level as absolute.
All these 3 groups believe god is not optimal, and randomness
exsists. You can not defend oneness and then saying 'i dont need you',
even this reaction i have now will reflect back to me, and god will bring me to the end, by you, by my reactions on you, by your reactions on me,
that is oneness, without you and your reaction that is a reflection, not randomness , i can never become free.

you are all not seeing what it means to have a life that is one.
all are defending a god that is theoreticaly one,
but not practical, which means he is divided, Baal.

you can not understand until you talk to 'children'.
Children do not talk university language but honesty.

[edit on 26-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds


1- i dont understand your posts. im ESL, and your not making sense.

2- you never tell me anything from the bible. its always opinions with you, which im sorry are not any more valid than anybody else's opinions. if your opinions are the truth, then im sure that god would have remembered to put them in the bible

reply to post by miriam0566

better actually. i took the time to live life instead of being on the computer lol.

unfortunately i got sick again

So, if you are not posting, that is actually a good thing, and we should not worry?

reply to post by oliveoil






Jesus is not the physical son of God, not biological begetting, but
ontological event not in time but in God's eternity.

Jesus' human nature was assumed by him who from eternity belongs
to the triune relationship of divine love, by his being.

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by Joecroft
Hey Miriam…Welcome back …
I haven’t seen you around in ages…Where have you been…

better actually. i took the time to live life instead of being on the computer lol.

unfortunately i got sick again :bnghd:

Ironically it is the doctrines that come from man, that are keeping Christians separated, rather than uniting them.

it makes me think of a scripture

john 4:[23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

its interesting that christians that care about the truth are united in belief

Yes. These doctrines, dogmas, were formulated according to what was
believed at the time. They are not wrong, neither was the belief wrong,
but limited to their present knowledge. Faith is not stagnant, its living
and developing. We need to understand the reality that the early dogmas
were attempting to formulate. To understand that one cannot explain
Mystery in absolute terms.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by oliveoil

 

I was wondering when you would chime in oliveoil, welcome to the thread.

The son of God (Jesus) would be, simply put, God. You dont need a Bible to figure this out.

This is the problem, you think we don't need the bible to decide truth. You are defeated by that very statement.

The son of God is also a god small "g" which mutes your point as well.

I'm stating that you do not need a Bible to figure out ones nature. Jesus' nature was, and is, one with God. Thats a capital "G". Common sense tells us that a goat is of nature of a goat. A horse is of nature of a horse. A dog is of nature of a dog. A man is of nature of a man. Gods only begotten son is of nature of himself. No one can deny this truth. The Bible, as I have confirmed many,many times backs this up. Mirimum is right 1+1=2.But what she has failed to see is that 1+1=2 share the same nature. That nature being that they are all numbers. These simple truths can not be denied.

I could very well tear down your theroy opposing that Jesus is not God by using Bible quotes. However, I feel that, whats the point if you can not even grasp natural law and basic common sense sunday school Biblical theory. Is there anything we can agree on?

reply to post by oliveoil

I feel that, whats the point if you can not even grasp natural law and basic common sense sunday school Biblical theory.

LOL, I know exactly how you feel.

And that's why this post is so short

Originally posted by oliveoil
I'm stating that you do not need a Bible to figure out ones nature. Jesus' nature was, and is, one with God.

We would not even know that God or Jesus existed without the bible. We would not know who Jesus is or what he did for us without the bible. And you CANNOT know who Jesus is or his nature without the bible.

The bible stands as the word of God. And you cannot follow God through a doctrine not of his will.

IN THE NAME OF GOD. GOD SAID IT HIMSELF. OUT OF HIS OWN WORDS GOD SAID THAT JESUS IS GOD' SON. WHO ARE YOU TO Denie WHAT GOD HAS SPOKEN. ALL OVER THE GOSPELS JESUS IS SEE AS THE SON OF GOD. JESUS HIMSELFS EVEN SAYS THAT HE CAME IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER. THAT GOD SENT HIM. JESUS SAYS THAT HE DOES'NT DO HIS OWN WILL BUT THE WILL OF GOD. DOes ANYONE HERE SEES THE TRUTH. JESUS SAYS IT QUITE CLEAR.

Bible quote
Bread of Life
John 6 v 38-40
38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

This verus alone shows that Jesus is not God. If Jesus was God. He would not say this. Jesus came to do God's will. Jesus is God's Son. Jesus is the Son of God. God's only begotten son. How in the hell can you ignore his scripture only. YOU CAN NOT DENIE SCRIPTURE.

Jesus praying, worshipping and talking to God only should prove to you all that Jesus has a father, and that Jesus walks in the name and power of God.

bible quote
Jesus Prays for Himself
Jesus Prays for His Disciples
Jesus Prays for All Believers
John 17 v 1-26
1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
Jesus Prays for His Disciples
6"I have revealed you[a] to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. 12While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. 13"I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
Jesus Prays for All Believers
20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25"Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

These are not praying of pointlessness. Jesus talk to God, he pray to God and even ask God for his will to stand. Jesus pray for othes. And Jesus was not talking to himself. Jesus even says not is will but God will. How can anyone true believer in God and the Bible, denie what God said and what th bible teaches.

Jesus even claims that his spirit goes to God.

bible quote
Jesus' Death
Luke 23 v 46
46Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.

AGAIN HOW CAN ANYONE DENIE JESUS AS TH SON OF GOD. Isn't it obvious. Its written for anyone that God lets see. Jesus came in the name of God. Not his own.

bible quote
The Death of Jesus
Matthew 27 v 46
46About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi,[c] lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Can God forsake himself, no I dont think so. Jesus calls God his own God. Jesus has a God that he follows. Jesus feels forsaken by God. Not himself.

The last scriptue I believe makes it obvious again for everyone to know Jesus is the son of God. If Jesus was God Jesus would not need God's spirit. Plus AGAIN GOD SAYS THAT JESUS IS GOD' SON.

Bible quote
The Baptism and Temptation of Jesus
Mark 1 v 9-13
9At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10As Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."
12At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert, 13and he was in the desert forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him.

In the name of God. You should really make share that God backs you words up. I believe that we all should be very careful of our words. because God is watching. We cannot boast just because we think we know it all. The bible is the word of God. And what the bible teaches us is truth. Not what your church teaches or what you belief teaches. I think Christian have a big problem. We read part of the bible and forget the rest. The beginning of gosel of John is one of the hardest scripture for me to not believe Jesus is God. I believe Jesus did in actions and words prove that Jesus is the Son of God. More imporant I believe in my God, who said that Jesus is his son. I won't denie God. And I pray that God show me the truth not my own eyes.
God bless you all

reply to post by miriam0566

Originally posted by miriam0566
better actually. i took the time to live life instead of being on the computer lol.

LOL

Good for you…

You should have an ATS Biblical break lol, once in a while.

I’m glad your feeling better…I really missed your post’s…

Originally posted by miriam0566
it makes me think of a scripture

john 4:[23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

its interesting that christians that care about the truth are united in belief

I guess every Christian is united in Christ…it’s the doctrines which people seem to argue/debate over, which divides them. I like to believe that everyone, Christian or not…cares about the truth or at least try’s to seek the truth.


- JC

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by miriam0566

 

better actually. i took the time to live life instead of being on the computer lol.

unfortunately i got sick again

So, if you are not posting, that is actually a good thing, and we should not worry?

im sorry, im starting to realize that maybe i should post updates?

To deny the Divinity of Christ is to not know the nature of God.

Originally posted by teapot
To deny the Divinity of Christ is to not know the nature of God.

show me where it says that in the bible and i will believe you

Originally posted by Joecroft
I guess every Christian is united in Christ…it’s the doctrines which people seem to argue/debate over, which divides them. I like to believe that everyone, Christian or not…cares about the truth or at least try’s to seek the truth.

sadly i see the opposite.

i see a majority of people in the world really dont want to know. i know because i myself have been guilty of this from time to time both in small ways and big.

i find that people dont like to see that they are wrong. as a consequence, when they are wrong, they go to great lengths to justify their position.

thats why the bible is SO important. its a great way to gauge how much you are being truthful with yourself and others.

it also shows intentions.

when you show a scripture for the umpteenth time that says something black and white and clear as day and they still fight it, then you realise there is something else there, something other than a love for truth.

Originally posted by rileyw
]We need to understand the reality that the early dogmas
were attempting to formulate. To understand that one cannot explain
Mystery in absolute terms.

the reality the early dogmas were trying to create was a pagan one. a pagan belief system where trinities replace the oness of GOD. where pagan sun worshipping dates are celebrated in the name of christ

this was so that they could convert.

not everyone is interested in truth and and not everyone likes to break away from local tradition. make christianity palatable to the pagans and your pews will stay full

sorry again....

[edit on 27-1-2010 by miriam0566]