A Message From the Ancients? - Or a Geographical Coincidence? - You Decide!

Originally posted by Scott Creighton
reply to post by kiwifoot

 

Hello Kiwifoot,

You may be interested in this article by researcher, Jim Alison, who presented similar ideas back in 2001. From these ancient sites Alison calculates a former Earth pole to have been located in south Alaska.

Exploring Geographic and Geometric Relationships Along a Line of Ancient Sites Around the World

Best wishes,

Scott Creighton

Thanks Scott, I'll definitely check it out, makes me look like I robbed the idea!!!

I didn't I swear! I can't wait to read it though and see it done properly!

All the best, Kiwifoot!

[edit on 7-1-2010 by kiwifoot]

Wow, I love ancient civilizations, this was pretty interesting
I'm defintely watching the documentary! Keep this up!

reply to post by kiwifoot


wow!
that is very intriguing, kiwifoot

what it reminds me of is a astrological wheel
maybe it could be deciphered to a particular date that would turn out to be significiant?

it would be like finding a needle in a haystack!
but we've found needles in the hay before

Originally posted by kiwifoot

Originally posted by Scott Creighton
reply to post by kiwifoot

 

You may be interested in this article by researcher, Jim Alison, who presented similar ideas back in 2001. From these ancient sites Alison calculates a former Earth pole to have been located in south Alaska.
Best wishes,
Scott Creighton

Thanks Scott, I'll definitely check it out, makes me look like I robbed the idea!!!

I didn't I swear!

I liked the efforts put forth to show this kiwifoot, and thank you for bringing this to the forum for a more current discussion.

Certainly Scott is correct, in the matter of this being addressed in the past, and I am also certain Jim Alison wasn't the first to have had a simliar premise based on such an idea.

Nothing is truly new, in respects to Ideas and Points of View, but things tend to get "Refreshed" from time to time, and this is not a bad thing either. Consideration upon and Pondering of "Problems" which seemingly have no explaination tend to offer answers which will revolve back to a basic point.

In this case, your thoughts have led to an observable conclusion, which in the past "Other's" have been similarily led.

This is the exciting thing about Discussion and Debate and the presentation of One's Views on subjects of varying scope. Somethings presented in one Discussion, may shed light upon other seemingly unrelated Discussion.


Back to your offering here, I would wonder what sort of alignments would become observed if we took STONEHEDGE to be the focal point instead of the Poles and Equator.

I my humble opinion, Stonehedge maybe one of the Oldest of these Ancient Artifacts, not to mention a "Compass" so to speak.

I wouldn't have a clue how to create the View, as you have done, but if time permits, once you finished the South Pole for the previous Poster, I would be thankful if you could offer a Stonehedge view.

I understand, The Great Pyramid is aligned via the Shafts, to both Jerusalem and Stonehedge.

With that said, I wonder what would be observed with the Great Pyramid as the Focal Point? But now I am asking tooooo much from you.

Hope to see Stonehedge someday though.

Good post and great food for thought. Both of which is never a bad thing.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by kiwifoot

First of all, Wonderful thread! I have been learning much about Graham Hancock's theories from Scott Creighton's forum here on ATS and in some of the books I have been reading on the subject of Archaeo-Astronomy.

I must say the problem that Byrd points out with the large variation in ages of these sites does seem to discredit the theory of some kind of collective effort. Graham Hancock talks about ancient knowledge for how to build, and where to build, these megalithic structures so a connection in regards to your theory would reside in the source of the "blueprints". Perhaps Angkor Wat, for example, was built according to ancient plans on top of an ancient site that was similar to what is there now.

If this is not the case then I don't see a connection other than the emphasis on astronomy in their architecture, however, this connection alone warrants further study in my opinion. I cannot think of any modern construction that follows this same connection, architecture and astronomy, to such an intricate degree other than maybe Arecibo Observatory. It is for this reason that I feel a huge misunderstanding about the purpose of these ancient sites is still with us.

[edit on 1/8/2010 by Devino]

reply to post by Devino

If this is not the case then I don't see a connection other than the emphasis on astronomy in their architecture, however, this connection alone warrants further study in my opinion. I cannot think of any modern construction that follows this same connection, architecture and astronomy, to such an intricate degree other than maybe Arecibo Observatory. It is for this reason that I feel a huge misunderstanding about the purpose of these ancient sites is still with us.

Misunderstanding? I believe you are correct.

I watched all of the documentaries, plus having other bits and pieces of the puzzle helps. There were a few descriptions of "Gods coming in self powered ships with no oars" They were further described to be Men with beards and were accompanied by feathered and winged "Serpents". This appears to be a reoccurring event at some of the sites.

It seems to me that these trips occurred after the great calamity, or flood, and it appears it was done to bring civilization back to the surface of the earth.

It also seems to reason that the cultures that were salvaged in this manner had varying degrees of success, but the overall attempt, failed. I would suggest the best attempt was in ancient India and Greece, and the worst may have been the continent of America where the attempt was met with violence from the natives.

All of the ancient sites seem to have a commonality to them but with a unique personality. The sites themselves, to me, really appear to be nothing more than a very large "Calender" and not much more. We hang our calenders on the wall, they built them in the jungle.

The idea of a ancient pre 10,500 global society is almost obvious through all the similarities, and the gigantic works that still baffle science, can not be put aside and assigned the title of mythology. What is obvious is that it seems as though any technology was not part of the restructuring of society. It was a part that was conveniently left out and forgotten over the 10,000 plus years.

I also have no doubt that the pre catastrophe society is still in existence but rather than maintaining contact with the surface of this world, decided to wash their hands of those "Gods" that came to assist humanity, and humanity itself. The key question for me is "Why"?

The "Catastrophe" or "War" that is mentioned in the Hindu scriptures also mentions what appears to be a nuclear holocaust on the surface of this planet, and is evidenced by the large deserts in the southwest US, and northern Africa. Someone, or power, attempted to remove humanity from the face of this planet, and were unsuccessful, because we are still here. The bible mentions a great flood, and in the documentary it is suggested that the polar caps were melted to cause this flooding. If you believe this, then ask yourself why after 10,000 plus years did the polar caps not regain all the snow and ice once present, to lower the seal level back down to the pre flood level, which was 300 to 400 feet lower than today? "Procession" does not explain this as at most this effect would only shift the caps around the central pivot point bringing colder winters on one side, while giving warmer summers on the other, of the Procession ring. It does not add, or remove stored water from the caps themselves. Yes, there could have been temporary melting due to a high technology weapons during a war, but again, time would have redeposited the snow and ice back onto the caps. There must be another reason.

I would suggest we must look at another possibility, and that is, someone or thing, bringing water to this planet, and dumping it in a controlled manner, over a period of time. We now know that Mars has water on it, and at some time in the past as evidenced by the "water erosive canals" on the surface, had far more water on it. Could it at the very least, be a possibility, that a older, much older, civilization, who maintains a very strict anonymity, were ancient enemies to humanity and attempted to regain this planet by drowning the inhabitants using massive amounts of water from Mars?

I'm no mathematician so I would ask one of our members who is, to attempt to calculate the amount of water that resides within the present "Sea level" and the ancient sea level of 300 or 400 feet lower. I would theorize that this amount of water would fit nicely on Mars, filling the dry lake beds and or oceans. There is also another possibility in that the combined waters of Mars, and the planet that resided in the asteroid belt known as "Teamot (sp)" were used. But that is a very long shot. Can it not be at least, a possibility?

Kiwifoot, thank you for the documentaries, and, the question marks on the globe, it is quite a "eye" full.

reply to post by All Seeing Eye


After carefully reading some of the biblical text pertaining to the Great Flood I think we should keep in mind that the flood itself might have been a natural disaster that was predicted by the gods and not caused by them intentionally. This knowledge of impending doom seems to have been withheld as not everyone was told about it and the ones that were preparing for this disaster were considered crazy.

There are many myths relating to heavenly waters that seem to have fallen from the sky at some point. During this time there was a disturbance of the planets. It appears Mars and Venus were involved in some catastrophic events here on Earth in which there was a great inundation and a conflagration. There seems to be at least two different catastrophic events that have been described in many ancient cultures and the Maya describe four different events that nearly destroyed the Earth.

My point is that I have failed to find an accurate description for the cause of these events. Did the gods physically do it all just to punish man or was this some natural event or a celestial disturbance? The evidence seems to always indicate a celestial interaction but whether this was space ships, gods or planets I don't know. I'm leaning towards planets personaly.

reply to post by Devino

My point is that I have failed to find an accurate description for the cause of these events. Did the gods physically do it all just to punish man or was this some natural event or a celestial disturbance? The evidence seems to always indicate a celestial interaction but whether this was space ships, gods or planets I don't know. I'm leaning towards planets personaly.

Since there are powers that actively try to hide the past it almost impossible to explore the deep past for the truth.

I have read some material that suggests that this "War" was instigated because who I refer to as Gen 2, became corrupted, arrogant, and wanted to be as "Gods" by physically creating Gen 3, that being us on the surface of the planet today. The very fact that they "Created" a sentient being who viewed there creators as "Gods", was blasphemous to who I refer to as Gen 1. In the mind of the Gen 1 gods there could be only one god. How dare our creations try to be as glorious as we, and be like us in the power to create physical bodies. A solar system wide war broke out, the planet Tiamat was completely destroyed and earth was heavily damaged by weapons and water. Proof of the existence of this planet can be found in the "Asteroid Belt". The central "Molten Core" of this planet is still in existence and is called "Ceres (dwarf planet)". For those who believe all planets are hollow and have a central sun, you may want to call Ceres the Smoky God of Tiamat. But again, all this is my opinion.

Tiamat
Ceres (dwarf planet)

I believe the war actually ended in a stalemate, and terms. Missionaries and governors, or Gods if you like were sent onto the surface of this planet to reestablish the populations under strict guidelines that were part of the terms of the truce. Both Gen one, the "Feathered and winged serpent", and Gen2 "gods with beards" were bringing knowledge back to the "slaves" of the Gen 3. One of the terms was that the people would never be told of the truth of the past and kept ignorant of who and what they really were, and still are. Commerce between the past enemies was opened in the form of trading materials, and slaves. Slaves being the Gen 3 creations, and were used in any manner Gen 1 decided from forced labor to dinner treats. Read that how ever you like! It appears children were the preferred trading stock.

Mankind is too broad a word to cover the participants in this war as each have their own genesis and history, to be complicated by vast amounts of time, so I have created 3 categories, Gen1, Ge2, Gen3.

Originally posted by NibiruWarrior

The underwater pyraminds are NOT geological features!

A lot of professionals and archaeologists have dived at the sites and have confirmed that they are in fact megalithic structures similar to those around the world still above sea-level such as at Gizah, Baalbek, Machu Picchu, Chichén Itzá, Luxor, Palenque, Pumapunku, Teotihuacan, Tiahuanaco, Uxmal, Yaxchilan, Tikal, etc, etc, etc.

'
This is simply not the case. Please provide links and quotes from these archaeologists.

The last professional that passed judgement there was Robert Schoch who said it was absolutely a natural formation.

Even the Japanese Geologist Kimura now says the thing sank (you know, land does sink sometimes) around the first century A.D., as was reported right here in this section at the time by poster Cormac MacAirt. Use the search function.

Please, take your wishes out of this and put your brain to work on it.

Harte

There are powers that actively try to hide the past, they have names also: Erosion, Withering, Decay, Plate Tectonics, Climatic Changes.

There is coincidence involved in placing sites where people settled and flourished when you take into account some factors at play, such as climate, the availability of food and water, to name just two important ones. Keep in mind that this happened not overnight but over 6 millennia, time enough for "modern" or "after deluge" civilization to go from discovering writing to space travel yet these "followers" of the super evolved civilization did as much as pick the site and settle it (and those that arrived on their respective sites early enough leave a few monuments that stood the test of time so far). Keep in mind that "data" that didn't fit your hypothesis were omitted (YOUR words, not mine!).

Let's entertain the notion that there was a super advanced global civilization, far more advanced than we are now, before the cataclysm. Let's leave out Venus and Mars and other celestial bodies for now, and the ones that could perhaps manipulate some of them to wreak havoc on poor old Earth and its inhabitants. There's a small problem with this "theory", they couldn't get their facts straight!

The Bible states that "celestial waters poured on the Earth for 40 days and nights", right? Yet, other records report different time spans for the cataclysm (I will go with the word I am most familiar with, "deluge" is too mystical for me), others longer and other shorter. So, which one is correct and why the differencies? And why some people don't even have deluge myths in their mythology? Were such people (like the ones inhabiting central Siberia for the past 30-40,000 years) aliens perhaps and just missed the big show? And, if the Sahara desert is the site of nuclear bombs being detonated, where is all the "glass" that nuclear blasts produce? Is it that all the sand is just that? Broken glass? If so, why are American deserts so "rocky", since they formed at about the same time and the same way they should be of similar "composition".

Yet there was a flooding in MOST coastal areas on Earth when the last Ice Age was over. It was NOT instant, it WAS devastating to those inhabiting those areas and it didn't last the same amount of time on all cases. There WERE areas unaffected by it so IF there was a global, super advanced civilization present how come they didn't see it coming and take precautions to ensure some level of survival for their culture? And I am not talking sending out some mere emissaries to teach the "natives" how to farm and hunt and pray, I am talking establishing a city somewhere safe, a city VISIBLE to the rest of THEIR fellow humans so that if someone escaped the disaster could be reunited with them - a city ABOVE ground! We're evolved (not engineered, evolved!) to live above ground, where there is sunlight and fresh air and plenty of food sources for us to eat.

About those celestial bullies, Venus and Mars, is there any hard evidence that they caused or intensified disasters on Earth in recent times? And in "recent" I mean recent as in with humans present and capable of recording it somehow (even through oral tradition although that is a very poor way for a super advanced global civilization to express themselves through). And since you know Ceres is hollow, can you alert NASA to abort their planning for a mission there to see what's going on?

reply to post by Maegnas

You have left your reply without a direction to one person so I can only assume some of your comments are directed at me. Ill try to comment on those subjects.

There are powers that actively try to hide the past, they have names also: Erosion, Withering, Decay, Plate Tectonics, Climatic Changes.

It is true that 10,000 plus years will destroy and or deface ancient sites, sometimes beyond recognition, and it is a situation that must be understood and accepted. But one must also accept that human hands play just as large a role in concealing the truth as nature. Two examples are the burning of the library of Alexandria, and the vaults of the Vatican.

The Bible states that "celestial waters poured on the Earth for 40 days and nights", right? Yet, other records report different time spans for the cataclysm (I will go with the word I am most familiar with, "deluge" is too mystical for me), others longer and other shorter. So, which one is correct and why the differencies?

I for one do not entertain the idea that melting polar ice caps flooded the world because the ancient water level never returned. The waters of the flood never receded. If it were a simply ice cap water, it would have eventually built back up on the poles, and the water level would have receded. It did not.

From what all I have gathered the "flood" was in fact a weapon used against mankind to destroy it. And with any weapon you must aim it according to the target, and its location. I believe the flood was a controlled event. Some places hit harder for longer, some not at all. Areas with the most density would obviously get more attention than the middle of a desert, if you can relate. Dropping the amount of water, lets say Lake Erie's amount, on NYC within a matter of a couple of hours would do what to the city? Wipe it off the face of the earth? Of course all the water involved would have to go where? You can ridicule the theory, you can be insulting, you can offer other theories, but until you explain to me where 300 to 400 extra feet of water came from, you can not dispel the theory! It had to come from somewhere!!

And since you know Ceres is hollow, can you alert NASA to abort their planning for a mission there to see what's going on?

I don't believe I stated Ceres is hollow, I'm certain its not. What I do believe is that it is the "Seed" of the planet Tiamat, which no longer exists. If my suspicions are correct as to how planets form I would suggest NASA use extreme care when approaching Ceres. It may be possible for Ceres to become active once again, and mankind be allowed to see the birth of a planet. All sorts of weirdness can be expected in the next few years. If my theory is correct it is possible that this "seed" could come back to life, and bring forth a new planet. Just like a Volcano, its dormancy could come to a end.

Have a nice "Out of the Box" day

reply to post by All Seeing Eye


Indeed, I was replying to more than one person so I left my reply "open". Sorry about that, I should have listed my points per person I replied to.

Agreed, human hands have done a lot to hide the past but not always with that in mind. The burning of the Great Library in Alexandria was not a one time occurance, the Library suffered a series of serious damages/disasters until it was finally burned down completely by the Muslims. Most of those were either accidents (the Julius Caesar fire for example) or acts of religious "madness" (Muslims). the end result was the same but the motive was not.

Ice Ages and their end don't happen over a period of 10, 20 or 40 days. It takes centuries for the ice caps to reform, millennia if we're talking the level of the peak of the last Ice Age. It is estimated (by geologists and archeaologists) that the sea levels rose by as much as 400 feet, worldwide, when the last Ice Age ended (an Ice Age can end far more abruptly than its onset, if combined with other natural factors like increased volcanism, a peak in solar activity and continental drift). So, to tell me that it couldn't be ice melting just because it didn't form back in about a month is so "out of the box" that the box is just a mere dot

To answer you where all that water came from, let me say this. When Ice Ages occur, polar ice caps grow to sizes up to 4 times their "normal" size (that includes height too). Where does all that water come from? From the existing amount of water on the planet. Sea levels were far lower than today (perhaps by about 400 feet lower?) when the ice age was at its peak. So the question is not where the water came from, it is how fast did it return to it previous status?

OK, now I am going to need some backing up on your words.

From what all I have gathered the "flood" was in fact a weapon used against mankind to destroy it. And with any weapon you must aim it according to the target, and its location. I believe the flood was a controlled event.

What kind of weapon was it?
Who made it?
Why did mankind had to be destroyed?
How many targets were there?
Can I too say "I believe" and be done with it?

What I do believe is that it is the "Seed" of the planet Tiamat, which no longer exists. If my suspicions are correct as to how planets form I would suggest NASA use extreme care when approaching Ceres. It may be possible for Ceres to become active once again, and mankind be allowed to see the birth of a planet. All sorts of weirdness can be expected in the next few years.

According to astronomical observations, Ceres holds about 1/3 of the total mass of the Asteroid belt, meaning that if all the bodies that orbit the Sun at that distance were to form one single body it would have a total mass 3 times that of Ceres' today. Ceres has a diameter of 600 miles (give or take), a body with triple the mass and the same density would have a diameter of about 870 miles, still too small to be a planet (but we're not nit-picking on names). How exactly would that rock affect us?
How do planets form?
How long it takes for a planet to form? Judging by your warning it could be rather fast a process.

You can ridicule the theory, you can be insulting, you can offer other theories, but until you explain to me where 300 to 400 extra feet of water came from, you can not dispel the theory! It had to come from somewhere!!

I don't ridicule anything or insult. I just use the "fuel" some theories provide me. If that is ridiculing or insulting it is not my fault. I did offer other theories, theories that have been around and agree with what we observe in the natural universe around us. I offered an explanation to where those "extra" feet of water went (or came from). I believe (since it is valid for you, it is valid for me too) I have dispelled your theory.

A most interesting thread. Strangely enough, I had a very similar idea to both your's and Mr. Alison's idea back in the mid-90s. Unfortunately, at that time I was a teenager stuck in the middle of Podunk, USA and the internet, although it existed, was something which could only be accessed through 28.8 Kbps dial-up modems(in other words, I suffered from a supreme lack of resources). Basically, I had to mentally do the mapping. In the interim, the idea got lost among newer ideas and information. Anyway, glad to see that technology finally caught up with me and vindicated my idea.

By the way, kiwifoot....I've been trying to do similar mapping since I read this thread but my version of Google Earth only allows seven markers max. How did you get more? Is this a feature of the pro version?

Heya!

I've seen the very same documentary, and I enjoyed it very much. So much so that we started a band and and named it Nan Madol based on the ancient society.

One of the first songs we put out there is "Kingdom Caves", the lyrics dealing with the slaves of the society etc etc etc.

Check it out on youtube:

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by kiwifoot


What, exactly? All these people separated by hundreds, sometimes even thousands of years, all clearly from different cultures, using different building methods, built very different (but impressive) structures...

What's the "secret message" there, unless it's "Gosh, people can do some neat stuff!"

Teotihuacan and Stonehenge are separated by nearly four thousand years. Are you seriously trying to tell me they're from the same people?

Interesting they would appear to be on an Ecliptic plane right enough.

It may give some other interesting clue if adjusted back to earlier cosmological positions etc, also retrograde torsion fields.

Well spotted, there's some people researching ancient phenomena who should factor this if not already doing so, methinx.

Peace.

[edit on 4-2-2010 by DeltaPan]

reply to post by kiwifoot






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reply to post by Whateva69

I dont think the ancient sites would be very involved with the global spread as we are only talking about 10,500 years or so. Maybe a fraction of a degree would or could be added to the equation to change the location of each site to the astronomical configuration they point to.

But on the other hand, global spread is a fascinating subject in its own right. I have viewed the provided video and have seen others that defiantly point to its possibility, and for me, probability. It would explain many things in geology that presently are a mystery.

reply to post by kiwifoot


All these places are a certain distance above and below the 30N parallel, right?
More or less?

I wanted to toss around a quick hypothesis. With the exception of Stonehenge, all of the spots seem to run parallel in a cluster. If the North Pole has transitioned, that would mean the equator would have moved too, in theory. Were this civilizations closer to the equator at one time but drifted away from it? I have no way of knowing but it seems it would make for a theory that coincides with the movement of the North Pole.

Edited to add: The equator would have remained the same, the positions of the land masses would have changed because of drift.