Killed in the Name of Christ

I don't hate Christians, I hate what they do. In response to this thread

The death toll estimates against humans in the old testament range from 2 million upto over 30 million killed by God. This includes the flood, Sodom and Gamora, the Egyptian's first born and this could be a very long list.

Modern Christianity teaches many things that are not in the bible or taught by Christ, if he is the way I find it interesting hardly anyone follows his teachings or his example. Now this is not just the modern church but has been a predominate thing since Christianity rose to be the dominate religion in the western world when in 315 The Roman Empire by edict started destroying Pagan Temples and worshipers as well as priests. These people were the first to die in Christ's name. Many of the people who destroyed and killed were Christian Priests doing Gods work.

To list all the Atrocities committed by Christianity would be impossible and some of the numbers are estimates, because the conquerors write the history books. Here are some of these atrocities:

When Christians first encountered Manichaeism, they deemed it a heresy, since it had originated in a heavily Gnostic area of the Persian empire. Augustine of Hippo (AD 354-430) converted to Christianity from Manichaeism, in the year 387. This was shortly after the Roman Emperor Theodosius I had issued a decree of death for Manichaeans in AD 382 and shortly before he declared Christianity to be the only legitimate religion for the Roman Empire in 391. According to his Confessions, after eight or nine years of adhering to the Manichaean faith as a member of the group of "hearers", Augustine became a Christian and a potent adversary of Manichaeism (which he expressed in writing against his Manichaean opponent Faustus of Mileve), seeing their beliefs that knowledge was the key to salvation as too passive and not able to effect any change in one's life.

Manichaeism

There is no way of knowing how many Pagans were killed by Rome and its Christian authorities but between 315 - the 6th century at least thousands were killed because of there religious beliefs. In 356 Pagan services were outlawed punishable by death. Emperor Theodosius had children put to death for playing with pieces of Pagan Idols. In the 6th century Pagans lost all rights.

Flavius Theodosius ( 11 January 347 – 17 January 395), also called Theodosius I and Theodosius the Great (Greek: Θεοδόσιος Α΄ and Θεοδόσιος ο Μέγας), was Roman Emperor from 379 to 395. Reuniting the eastern and western portions of the empire, Theodosius was the last emperor of both the Eastern and Western Roman Empire. After his death, the two parts split permanently. He is also known for making Nicene Christianity the official state religion of the Roman Empire.

Emperor_Theodosius

In 782 Charlemagne had 4500 Saxons beheaded because they would not convert to Christianity.

In 1099 Jerusalem was captured by the Christians and the death toll was as high as 60,000 men women and children, it is said that the blood in some places was ankle deep.

In 1099 at the Battle of Askalon there were upto 200,000 heathens killed in the name of Christ.

In the 1200's Steding Germany 5,000 to 11,000 men women and children were executed for not paying church taxes.

Cathar_heresy/inquizition:

The Catholic Church regarded the sect as dangerously heretical. Faced with the rapid spread of the movement across the Languedoc region, the Church first sought peaceful attempts at conversion, undertaken by Dominicans. These were not very successful, and after the murder on 15 January 1208 of the papal legate Pierre de Castelnau by a knight in the employ of Count Raymond of Toulouse, the Church called for a crusade, which was carried out by knights from northern France and Germany and was known as the Albigensian Crusade. The papal legate had involved himself in a dispute between the rivals Count of Baux and Count Raymond of Toulouse, and it is possible that his assassination had little to do with Catharism. The anti-Cathar Albigensian Crusade, and the inquisition which followed it, entirely eradicated the Cathars. The Albigensian Crusade had the effect of greatly weakening the semi-independent southern Principalities such as Toulouse, and ultimately bringing them under direct control of the King of France.

Cathar_heresy

Tomas de Torquemada the inquizitor allegidly burned upto 10,000 people at the stake but these numbers of how many killed are unknown:

Tomás de Torquemada, O.P. (1420 – September 16, 1498) was a fifteenth century Spanish Dominican friar, first Inquisitor General of Spain, and confessor to Isabella I of Castile. He was famously described by the Spanish chronicler Sebastián de Olmedo as "The hammer of heretics, the light of Spain, the saviour of his country, the honour of his order". He is known for his zealous campaign against the crypto-Jews and crypto-Muslims of Spain. He was one of the chief supporters of the Alhambra Decree, which expelled the Jews from Spain in 1492. The number of autos-de-fé during Torquemada's tenure as Inquisitor General have been hotly debated over the years. Today, there is a general consensus that about 2000 people were burned by the Inquisition in the whole of Spain between 1480 and 1530[1], while Torquemada was Grand Inquisitor from 1483 until his death in 1498.

Torquemada

As you can see Christianity has cut a bloody path throughout history. I have not listed all events because it might be impossible to do so.
We haven't even got to the Native Americans yet.

Why is the ku klux klan a bad organization? well they are racist and they kill people............

Christians like to point out that atheist governments like Stalin killed 20 million people, and they don't hate the person they hate the sin.....I don't by this, and I use history to prove my point.

So the next time a Christian claims anything to do about the moral high ground............remember there history.

I have only covered a few events in a thousand years of our history from 300 - 1200 and the death toll is staggering.

Im not attempting to hurt Christians, I just don't think most people understands what it means to be a follower of Christ, and again I use our history to prove my point. I also think that these things should not be forgotten, they should be discussed lest we make the same mistakes in the future......

reply to post by LDragonFire

I don't hate Christians, I hate what they do.

Do you mean, I don't hate Christians, I hate what they did?

I'm a Christian and I hate what the Roman church did to, but that was the Roman church not all Christians are Catholic.

Modern Christianity teaches many things that are not in the bible or taught by Christ.

This makes me mad too, but these fakes will have to answer to God for that. There are also many good men and women who don't add lib or cherry pick the bible. Shouldn't really lump the good apples in with the bad ones ya know.

As you can see Christianity has cut a bloody path throughout history.

You mean As you can see the Roman church has cut a bloody path throughout history?

Im not attempting to hurt Christians, I just don't think most people understands what it means to be a follower of Christ.

I think you are trying to hurt Christians, why else would you lump us all together? Everything you posted is true, but none of it has anything to do with following Christ. It's sad that you think it does. People then had no understanding of the bible, and they took their beliefs to the exstream. A superstitious lot scared of their own shadows. This was a good post full of facts and info, just please don't lump us all together. I for one don't like being lumped in with those wakos.

Joseph Stalin, Atheist: 20 million plus dead
Mao-Tse-Tung, Atheist: 40 million plus dead
Pol Pot, Atheist: 2 million dead
Kim-Il-Sung, Atheist: 5 million dead
Athiests prefer a communist government that was they can enforce freedom of religion at all costs while preserving their right to speak freely according to what they say free speech is.

And the winner is......

Also the "i dont hate christians i hate what they do" thing lets see if that flys with other groups
i dont hate athiests i hate what they do
i dont hate Jews i hate what they do
i dont hate Blacks i hate what they do
i dont hate Whites i hate what they do
i dont hate little people i hate what they do

[edit on 17-11-2009 by zaiger]

Don't forget that Christians suppressed the sciences, remember what they did to Galileo?

I like it when modern Christians try to dissociate themselves from Catholicism...it is entertaining. I do not care what denomination you are, track the history of your religion and your sub-genre of the Christian faith probably came from the Holy Roman Empire at some point in time. That would include everything that you believe about Christianity....

Religion is the biggest waste of time for society.

reply to post by dalan.


Do not forget what Dr. Josef Mengele did in the name of science.

Can everyone just agree that THE WAY things got done back in the day was through conquering, death and physical intimidation? There are wars death and murder throughout the entirety of human history.
For some reason, it seems that people only want to point out the examples of such things in the histories of christianity and america, as if somehow they are expected to be above the rest of the world.

"Christianity" was one and the same as government for a long time. Don't we know that most rulers were ruthless back then? Heads of state were heads of the church in many cases, and they ruled with an iron fist, challenging the authority of Kings , and in the case of the pope, of God himself.

Will Christians forever be stained by the actions of usurpers who took advantage of unbelievably ignorant masses over the course of the last 1500 years? I think some hope that is the case.

reply to post by heyo


You left me with nothing to say, and what you said, was better then what I most likely could have put together myself. Star for you cause clearly you have a brain and now how to use it.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by dthwraith]

reply to post by dalan.


Wonder what happened in your life to fill you full of hate? You can't understand something there for it is a waste. I'm glad the rest of the world doesn't think like you or we would have never gotten out of the stone age.

As a Christian I do not agree. I believe that I should not be punished for what other men do. If your neighbour kills a man do you stand in his place when the punishment comes? No so I do not see why all of us should be subjected to being called killers. I have never killed or done anything to harm another person from the moment I found my religion. I was not born and raised a Christian. Nor do I feel I was converted. I found it my own way and have accepted that during its past it was ruthless. However at the time many other religions were killing people also. I will not start saying this is right or that we were better. Just giving you an eye opener. It just so happens that during the first crusade we happened to have surprise on our side and more troops. If not we may have had a different world today. This is in the past. It's judging others by their code and not their religion that is important. If you stand by your word and do only good things in your life to the betterment of humanity would you be violent and angry toward this man or would you accept him? What if he was a Jew or a Muslim? Many people throughout history have killed for many reasons. I am sure that Alexander the great wasn't killing in the name of religion. And how many people and countries did he suppress into his kingdom? Why must everyone always say I am an atheist and then say I hate (some religion)? Do I care that you’re an atheist? How does atheism affect your vote on who is the worst religion? If anything it should be a negation of your vote, since you only know of the Bad things that are said of the religion and have yet to experience the good aspects of having a faith. We have all been put on this earth either by the joining of our molecules in such a way as to give us form or by some higher power re-arranging those molecules to form us. Either way why care about what happened in the past. I agree that no matter what we should never forget our sins we committed in our own past or that of our family which we may repay one day. However to place a blame on one religion when almost all the people of the past at one time through war of province, state, country or religion, had killed many. Children were sent to war. Families slaughtered on the battle field because they came out to watch father fight. Women and children killed in their homes because some army decided to slaughter all those in the town to make an example. Christian, Muslim, Jew, we all did it. Yet I do not blame the Muslim or Jew for slaying people as it was just the way of the age. I only accept that in each religion there is a bad apple as was said before. Do we put the blame of extremist that are blowing themselves up in the Middle East on all Muslims. No we understand that out of the multi millions (maybe billions) of Muslims we have on earth, that only small fractions are killers. It is the same with the Christians. If someone was standing over your family with a gun and said take this gun and kills the next person you see on the street or your family dies. You would do it. Well back then the king or pope decreed a law and you had to do it or your family were tortured raped and / or killed. This is still not an excuse as the choice is still theirs however if for some reason they survived they would then die of starvation as no one would be willing to help them since barely anyone could fend for themselves. Plus these people could not get their land back by petitioning the judge or bring it up to the cops since the king was law and the pope was god's spokesperson on earth. So give us a chance to get to show you who we are and what our code is. (Our code being what we live day to day representing our nature and what we have to offer). I understand that religion can look bad. But its the extremist on all sides making it look horrible. Face the fact that for at least the next few generations religion will be with us. At least till its banned by law or all the followers die off.

reply to post by heyo


well typed.

pretty much took the words out of my mouth.

things were done differently back then. we have evolved past that...or at least it seems the public wants to.

reply to post by iamsupermanv2



you know i'm starting to think that it's not about hate of a particular group, more about who WE as HUMANS really are, and our inability to admit these things about ourselves.

reply to post by heyo


care to elaborate a bit?

you sound like you have a good theory going here.

reply to post by LDragonFire

Following is typical example of what the Bible says about this.

1 Samuel 15:1-3 "And Samuel said to Saul, "The LORD sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel; now therefore hearken to the words of the LORD. 2 Thus says the LORD of hosts, `I will punish what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way, when they came up out of Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.'"

Why did 'the Lord' order this slaughter?

Here's the reason LDragonFire...


The Amalekites were descendants of the nephiyl...

KJV Genesis 6:4 "There were giants (Hebrew:nephiyl) in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

Here it is in more contemporary language...

NLT Genesis 6:4 "In those days, and even afterward, giants lived on the earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with human women, they gave birth to children who became the heroes mentioned in legends of old."


Their exploding numbers may have been a reason for the flood...

Genesis 6:9 "Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations..."
Generations (dowr) can mean quality, condition, class of men...
...a reference that implies that his genetic inheritance was not compromised or corrupted.

"There were giants (nephiyl) in the earth in those days (pre-flood); and also after that (post-flood)..."


Their descendants populated Canaan...
...the Amorites, Hittites, Horites, Nephilim, Rephaim, Anakites, Zuzim, Zamzummim, Emim, Amalekites, Perizzites, Kadmonites, Hivites, Girga#es etc...
Here are the reference (cf. Genesis 10:15-19, 14:5-6, 15:18-21; Deuteronomy 2:10-12; Joshua 17:15).

Have you heard of Goliath, the giant David slew?
(did you know Goliath had brothers?)

1 Samuel 17:4 "And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath (Girga#es), whose height was six cubits and a span."

...and these were the 'giants' the spies saw while Israel were on the borders of Canaan...

Numbers 13:33 - 14:1 "And there we saw the giants (nephiyl), the sons of Anak (Anakites), which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight."

2 Samuel 21:20 "...a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant (rapha = Rephaim)".


Abraham and the Amorites...
Reference is made to one of these races in the Lord's formal covenant with Abraham...


Genesis 15:13-16 "And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; 14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. 15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. 16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full".


The reason for the order to "...not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants..."...
...and to also destroy their livestock was that these tribes were genetic hybrids...
...and not of the original creation...
...and they were in opposition to what the Lord was planning to achieve though Israel.

They were being bred up to oppose and replace the world of men...
...Sodom and its sister city on the plains were destroyed for the same reason...
...that's why the locals were so interested in the visiting angels, angel sex is awesome apparently.

If you take the time to go through each instance where apparent ethnic cleansing was ordered...
...you will see that it was one of these tribes of Nephilim spawn...
...that world governments are about to Disclose as ET.

reply to post by heyo


I agree wholeheartedly. Humans have always found excuses to murder one another. Religion is just an easy way to mask your intentions. God wills it then it must be ok scenarios kind of make me ill. As with most religions it seems that it's never the message, but the messenger that causes the problems.

Religion should be required to post a warning label just like cigarettes and alcohol. Or a picture for those who can't read:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6eb6ff8f458c.jpg[/atsimg]

Enlightened species do not need religion.

reply to post by Osiris1953


yes exactly. In fact leaders are still doing the same things today. Nations are pitted against each other in the name of profit for the elites. You'd think people would realize that it was the same back then!!
Even worse actually, because today we are allowed to read our bibles, the internet, and court proceedings to figure things out for ourselves, whereas back then adults had the worldly knowledge of five year old.
And even with all of this available to us "it" remains the same. Now instead of government in the guise of religion it's just straight up government doing it.
Seems like some have had a good idea of how to control large groups of people for a very long time.

reply to post by tungus



The problem is, we are not an enlightened species. So I kind of agree with you.

reply to post by heyo


I agree with that as well, however these days it's more along the lines of private citizens who hide behind religion to get what they want. Christianity just happens to be one of the major religions, so quite often the manipulators label themselves Christian.

I agree with modern Christianity does things that Jesus doesn't teach.

1) Tithes, the 10% rule.

"So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver" (2 Corinthians 9:7).

The church teaches that we should give 10%, but this is not apart of the new covenant.

2) The Sabbath

Part of the old Testament

Etc. Etc. Etc.

I asked one time, why are there only certain books in the bible. People reported in kind, it depends on what the Vatician decides to release. Who is the Vatician? What gave them the right to dictate to other believers?

So many people think the Catholic Church runs Christianity, which is just simply not true.

I admitted already that atheist governments like Stalin murdered millions, but how does that justify this topic? More were killed in Christ name than Stalin's name. More were killed in Christs name than all of the leaders mentioned.

What They DO!

October 17, 2009

In the name of Christ...................

This is not something that has ceased this is something that continues to this day.

From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it.-Mathew 11:12

Our purpose is to impart faith in Christ, instill patterns and principles
for victorious Christian duty and ignite individual calling and destiny. Our
mission strategy is simple and encompasses three major areas: Evangelism, Discipleship and Deployment.

Force Ministries

That last one gives me the willies. It seems they are ready willing and able to forcefully achieve there objectives.

Pope John Paul II apology March 2000:

The Holy Father: Lord, God of all men and women, in certain periods of history Christians have at times given in to intolerance and have not been faithful to the great commandment of love, sullying in this way the face of the Church, your Spouse. Have mercy on your sinful children and accept our resolve to seek and promote truth in the gentleness of charity, in the firm knowledge that truth can prevail only in virtue of truth itself. We ask this through Christ our Lord. R. Amen. R. Kyrie, eleison; Kyrie, eleison; Kyrie eleison.

Pope John Paul II apology

The Vicar of Christ asks the world for forgiveness. If Stalin would have converted to Christianity would you have forgiven him? Is a apology good enough for you????? For the murder, rape and domination for 1400 - 2000 years of abuse, and all he has to do is say they are sorry???????????

But it continues.........

Priests get death sentence for Rwandan genocide

The priests were convicted of involvement in two massacres.

Please forgive this next long quote but it is important to this thread:

Adolf Hitler was not thrilled about putting fascists in charge of his puppet governments, so he did so only when there was no other option. This was the case with Croatia and Pavelić’s Ustashi government. Before he was ever leader of the Ustashi party, he was a young lawyer and leader in the Party of Rights (a Croatian nationalist party). It wasn’t until 1929 when he formed the Ustasha-Hrvatska Revolucionarna Organizacija (Insurgency-Croatian Revolutionary Organization, UHRO). In 1932 he wrote the charter of principles that outlined the plan for achieving an independent Croatia based on their ethnic identity and Catholic religion. This task would be the responsibility of an ustanak, or rather an armed insurgency, composed of the Croatian people, under the direction of the Ustashi. Ethnic cleansing and land gain were at the center of the party's agenda. Pavelić believed that the new Croatian state should include most of Bosnia and all of Dalmatia. Pavelić and his party argued that Croatia had already defeated the nomads of the east and the Turkish Muslims. Their new objective was to rid the country of Eastern Slavs and communism. Around twenty-four concentration camps were set up in Croatia, the most deadly of them being at Jasenovac where Allied estimates prove that 750,000 Serbs, Jews and Gypsies were murdered. Pavelić did not consider Croatians to be Eastern or Slavic, but rather of a more Western and Gothic background. The party would use this idea later during the war to become closer to Nazi Germany. However, unlike the Nazis, who preached no escape or mercy for the Jews of Germany and other Central European powers, Pavelić originated a plan to spare Serbs and Bosnians who embraced Catholicism and were willing to convert he was quoted as saying "we shall convert one third, we shall kill one third and one third will leave willingly or unwillingly"

Ante Paveli

Abortion Doctor Killed in the Name of Christ in the House of God:
Scott Roeder here is some of his artwork:
artwork

Scott Roeder

There is much more, its really disconcerting researching all of this, we haven't even touched on the massive death and destruction of Native Americans at the hand of the church.

Again Its impossible to list all atrocities, these are just a sample of whats has and still is going on in our world.