India's lunar mission finds evidence of water on the Moon

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Majorion

 

Just for starters:
www.solarviews.com...
adsabs.harvard.edu...
www.space.com...
www.cnn.com...

Well if the starter is Project Viking, then that's only with Mars, hardly anything to do with our Nearest Heavenly Neighbor and where our astronauts actually went themselves. The average person does not frequent Harvard's website looking for information like this. Space.com is a good one I'll give you that, but even at most, all we heard about was the possibility of water "ice" trapped deep in darkness at the poles, and needless to say, the average person doesn't find the possibility of "ice" very interesting at all anyway. Clementine's information covered that long ago.

CNN's article there from 1999 is only concerning liquid water trapped in meteorites. I wouldn't say it's too enthusiastic or related to the Moon. My point is that this type of information has long been denied. All of sudden it's self evident.

I'm willing to bet that in years to come we'll hear of a confirmation of life on the Moon, and I don't mean "aliens" of course, only microbial, step by step. If there's liquid water there then there's definitely life or vegetation of some sort.

Anyhow I find this immensely fascinating BTW, much like yourself.

Best,
M

This is great news, wonder if the Indian probe would have sent even more science changing information if they hadn't "lost contact" worthy of a conspiracy all by itself. Did someone steal the probe? or just disable it?

reply to post by Majorion

You're right, the average person finds this all pretty boring. But it gets pretty annoying when those of us who have had an interest and known about this are told, "NASA knew about this all along but were hiding it from us!" The information has not been long denied. It been out there and it's been ignored because it wasn't what they wanted to hear.

Now, once again, because the big announcement wasn't that we can go water skiing or ice skating on the Moon, it's a NASA cover up. "They aren't telling us everything."


[edit on 9/24/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Okay, I took your advice.

You're right. When you close and open your fingers as you move your hand back and forth, it is completely relative.

Still, yet... the moon is much smaller than the earth. The ratio of the size of the moon to the size of the earth should be the same as the apparent size of the moon to the earth observer to the apparent size of the earth to the moon observer.

If I hold my arm out and put the moon in between my fingers (as in his painting, he is holding his arms out) then I have about 1 inch in between my fingers. I have very large hands - so I just imagine that the gloves would be much thicker. I am guessing, even though that it is artwork, that there is about 2 inches between his fingers.

I feel like the earth should look bigger than this to the moon observer. I know the earth isn't only twice the size of the moon.

Don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but this related article explains the process of where the water comes from and why it accumulates at the poles. I wonder if they could use this knowledge to solve the world's water shortage problems.

In case anyone is interested:

www.msnbc.msn.com...

The rocks and regolith that make up the lunar surface are about 45 percent oxygen (combined with other elements as mostly silicate minerals). The solar wind — the constant stream of charged particles emitted by the sun — are mostly protons, or positively charged hydrogen ions.

If the hydrogen ions hit the lunar surface with enough force, they may break apart oxygen bonds in soil materials, said Taylor, the M3 team member. Where free oxygen and hydrogen exist, there is a high chance that trace amounts of water will form.

reply to post by TarzanBeta

I know the earth isn't only twice the size of the moon.

Correct, again.

Mean radius of the Moon? 1,737 km
Mean radius of the Earth? 6,371 km

Just in diameter, Earth is slightly under four times the Moon....3.67

Or....FROM the Moon, looking at Earth...the Earth is almost four times bigger....

However, you must also take into account the perspective. It is difficult to explain...I'm just going from a few assumptions.

IF you just "eyeball" it...you aren't being scientific. Depends on factors such as 'known' landscape features, and your impression of how far the horizon is....BECAUSE you are familiar with the Earth...and it's second nature, to know the aspect of the horizon, and the perspective.

(at the risk of getting too technical...you would have to have very accurate measuring devices, to ascertain the number of 'seconds' in the sky, of the disc of the Earth, when viewed from the Moon....to measure the angular obscuration of the "arc seconds", to be precise....)

Because you're familiar with them....you're comfortable. You assume certain proportions, based on that comfort and familiarity.

Travel to an alien environment, and all of those familiar 'assumptions' need to be tossed.

All too often, people tend to not realize this simple fact....

Washington, Sep 24 (IANS)(11:56pmIST) India's maiden lunar mission Chandrayaan has been successful in finding traces of water on the lunar surface, the US space agency NASA said here Thursday, and thanked the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) for the partnership. A National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) official said that traces of water and hydroxyl, a molecule consisting of one oxygen atom and one hydrogen atom, was also found in the lunar soil. NASA also thanked ISRO for the partnership. The NASA's Moon Mineralogy Mapper (M3) instrument was one of the instruments aboard the Chandrayaan-I, which was launched Oct 22, 2008. However, the mission had to be aborted Aug 30 after Chandrayaan lost radio contact with the earth. The analysis of the huge volume of M3 data was carried out by a joint team of scientists from the US and India. The scientific team was led by M3 principal investigator Carle Pieters, a planetary geologist at Brown University in Rhode Island, and J.N. Goswami, principal scientist of Chandrayaan-1 from Physical Research Laboratory (PRL) of the Indian Department of Space. The team had concluded that there were traces of hydroxyl (OH) and water (H2O) molecules on the surface of the moon closer to the polar region. The experts also concluded that traces of OH and H20 were in the form of a thin layer embedded in rocks and chemical compounds on the surface of the moon and the quantity were extremely small - of the order of about 700 parts per million (ppm).

in.news.yahoo.com...

i agreed never saw coloured moon before i always thought moon is total black and white waste land...he he...

Does anybody remembers that briton hacker, Gary McKinnon, who hacked NASA and US defense system.His interview is worth checking....its old interview and he lost pleas for his extradiction to US from england.he said that he knew that goverment always been hiding top secret information. a common man should know not everything but somethings are meant to reveal.not?
here you can read his interview.

www.wired.com...

[edit on 24-9-2009 by callme_ash2001]

[edit on 24-9-2009 by callme_ash2001]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by romanmel

 

Proof.

Show us how water can be liquid in 0.01% atmosphere, and -70C temperatures.

Please.

If the moon has water then how is that not proof? This is the point. You are still taking information fed to the masses and are using it as proof. There is fluidic H2O on the surface of the moon that supposedly has no atmosphere, and you are trying to use the dispelled misconception as a fact.

Then obviously the atmosphere isn't .01% and the temperatures are not -70C. This Sherlock Holmes quote from www.bestofsherlock.com... illustrates the issue I am trying to explain here.

...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth...

It is far more likely that the U.S. and world governments are being dishonest and are withholding critical and valuable information to our species, than it is that only just now are we able to discover what really is a simple process of moisture condensing with soil.

How can you be sure that the information you have is correct? How? Proof!

You don't have the means to collect the RAW data and compile the results yourself, and demanding proof from others is just as meaningless as the demand I gave you.

Besides, how much proof would you really require? Pictures, video, documents, confessions, sightings, contradictions with these institutions having a galaxy long track record of being dishonest, professional testimony, a green man in your bedroom with all the knowledge of everything?

It would never be enough, unless something completely disrupted your normal routine. The governments of the world are notorious liars and thieves and are currently bleeding world economic structures dry. You actually trust these people? Scientists who are so blinded by their pride and complacency that they will laugh a credible person out the room, then herald the person a champion after the fellow dies poor and ridiculed (History of Plate Tectonic Theory)?

Do you honestly think that these people are going to understand the truth of an unexplained universe, much less share it with the non-graduate masses? Think what you are asking for when you demand proof. You might get an answer that you can't handle.

reply to post by GideonHM


Sorry....please read, again...to see why THIS is so incrrect:

There is fluidic H2O on the surface of the moon that supposedly has no atmosphere, and you are trying to use the dispelled misconception as a fact.

NO. There is no "fluidic" (please taketime to check your 'sources') H2O on the surface of the Moon.

AS HAS BEEN noted....(and as I've read, in media reports) molecular amounts of H20 seem to be indicated even in the regolith...)

But, this is NOT the same as a bunch of liquid water, on the surface of the Moon!!!!

(best thing I've read....IF you had a large amount of regolilth, like the amount to cover a baseball field...you MIGHT get lesst han a CUP of water, out of all of that dirt.....THIS IS BASED solely on surface observations. Stuff BELOW??? Possible goldmine!

I am TRYING not to be "rude" here....but when misconceptions arise such as this, based on a lack of scientific understanding....it may become necessary.....

I think it would take way more than a ton of regolith to cover a baseball field.

I'm not real certain of the facts on this point but somone else (maybe in another thread) said a ton wouldn't even be enough to fill in a driveway.

How much do you think your car weighs? Now imagine a pile of dirt that size... I don't think that would come even close to covering a baseball field.

reply to post by weedwhacker


You are getting a bit too technical with this. Numbers are helpful but bring to consciousness thoughts that cloud perception. The underlying intelligence of the brain can plot things well enough. Let's focus on what our senses can tell us.

If I am to stand outside, on earth, looking up at the moon and stretch my arm out and hold my fingers exactly one inch apart and use my other arm to point at the moon and stay perfectly still... and then be teleported on the exact opposing spot on the moon with my fingers placed over the earth, no arc-seconds or whatever have you is going to change my perception. My human sight and my human arm and my human fingers are the constants in their constant position. The only change is my observation spot. The size of the earth didn't change. Nor did the size of the moon. Now teleport back and forth. Standing on earth looking at the moon, standing on the moon looking at the earth, and teleport back and forth faster and faster. Do it so fast that you see the blending of the images in your imagination and tell me...

Why is the earth not visually four times bigger than the moon.

We look from the earth through a lens, yeah yeah, look straight up at a full moon on a clear night and we get an accurate depiction. Look at the moon near the horizon and the moon seems about 1.5 times bigger. Okay, cool. So, it would seem, arms stretched, about a couple of centimeters bigger at the most.

Now, if we assume, according to our wonderful scientific knowledge, that the moon has no atmosphere (which would explain why the earth looks that much smaller), then tell me why...

Why does the earth not look four times bigger at least while standing on the moon. At the very least, the earth should look 6-8 inches from the moon. If you stretch your hand out and separate your fingers (AND I HAVE BIG MONKEY HANDS) to 6-8 inches, that is WAY bigger than what our friendly astronaut artist is depicting.

I would like to point out that he included the story along with it... so it is not so much artistic license as a supposedly true story.

Originally posted by tk1967


Amazing confirmation if that is the case; however, I'm very interested to know why is it former NASA missions never found water (or the basis for water).

How is it all of a sudden someone found "evidence of large quantities of water on its surface? Also, I wonder how one determines what is "large quantities".

www.timesonline.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

It is not that they didn't find the water, they just didn't want to let everyone know. The very fact that a fairly juvenile space program, such as India's, could discover water and we never did is absurd. I would not be surprised if America had all kinds of secrets tied into the moon, and mars, that they don't want the rest of the world to know.

reply to post by GideonHM

It is far more likely that the U.S. and world governments are being dishonest and are withholding critical and valuable information to our species...

No.

Imagine, if you will, that YOU are the Adminstrator of NASA.

Don't know if YOU are a US citizen....doesn't matter, really.

Politics crosses all lines....

Point is...IF your are reponsible for NASA...and your funding is drying up, due to Political changes....the BEST WAY to stimulate more Public Funding would be a MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT.....right????

NASA is a political entity....we don't doubt that, not for one second.

PEOPLE who are employed by NASA....do what PEOPLE do....they are generally devoted to SELF (sorry JimO...)....I mean, people, when presented with an opportunity to profit, will grab on, right????

THIS IS WHY THE ENTIRE NASA "scam" is a crock. SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE....because of the lure of sudden wealth, would have, long ago, "spilled the beans" IF there were any "beans" to spill!!!!

Come on!!! Think about it....

HOW MANY PEOPLE do you wish to believe are "involved" in some sort of 'cover-up'?

NOW...let's "pay off" all of those people....and, NONE of them EVER talk????

OK...ALL of them sign non-disclosure affadavits, on penalty of death, to themselves and their family.....because, that's te way itis....OK,next argument?

AND, it goes on from there.....it gets worse.

Is EVERY person assailable, because of family? Are there no SINGLE people???

I mean....for EVERY scenario, there is a response....ibetcha there will be plenty, once I post this.

I just wanted to give a cogent "other" opinion.....to think about....

reply to post by weedwhacker


Some people prefer life over wealth.

Don't you?

reply to post by TarzanBeta


No.

Prefer wealth.

There is going to be WEALTH to be had, from future mining operations on ... the Moon, for starters.

THIS is going to require attention from business people, entrepenuers....RISK TAKERS who see the potential prfits, even if long term.....

Hmmm...so they have found water...does this mean that NASA will not need to detonate LCROSS on the moon to "find water"

reply to post by weedwhacker


Do you understand that simply because it is fluidic, does not mean that I said water flows on the surface?

Lack of scientific understanding? You prove my point.

reply to post by weedwhacker


What would I do? Well, that is best left unsaid.

Now, simply because people can be selfish, uncaring, and willing to conform, why does that change that the government lies on a regular basis?

Paying off everyone? Please stop making up scenarios that I didn't even bring up. That is a straw man fallacy, OBVIOUSLY that is the most idiotic course of actions for anyone or organization to attempt to take.

All the info we are given is given without our ability to confirm most of it. Governments in this day and age are corrupted by power and greed, and anything that filters down will carry their reek and ignorance with it.

You are told just enough to keep you from asking the questions we aren't allowed to ask....nevermind. You're right. Believe it.

reply to post by BlackRosEmyth

Hi ,
Putting the link from the ISRO (India Space Research Organization) site
for every one's reference.
www.isro.gov.in...
According to a recent aritcle in a leading newspaper says Chandrayan took nearly 70,000 images before it went down.
Let's hope some more intresting stuff comes out (maybe microorganisms or something).
I also believe this is a part of the revelation till 2012., we will see many astounding discoveries very soon ...

Originally posted by weedwhacker
No.

Prefer wealth.

There is going to be WEALTH to be had, from future mining operations on ... the Moon, for starters.

THIS is going to require attention from business people, entrepenuers....RISK TAKERS who see the potential prfits, even if long term.....

You'd rather be dead and have wealth? You can't take it with you.

Also, I hope you're not a Christian, because from what I hear they have this saying about a needle and a camel... I won't bore you with the details but... dress light. It might be warm where you end up.