Come on ATS, what happened?

reply to post by OldDragger


You are prickly devil, sir.

So here you are agreeing with the OP about the "emotional posters" (which are inconvenient) but at the same time you are actually pushing in a way to make posters become emotional. I don't know if you are aware of what you are doing, but its pretty ingenious in a way.

I do read carefully. I read so carefully that sometimes I think I understood better what people wrote then the people that wrote it themselves.

I really don't understand your motivation and interests to give your opinion that in my eyes only represses true possibilities. If you could clear that up for me, I'd be grateful.

Originally posted by tmayhew01

I'm sick of people jumping to conclusions that our government has a giant scheme to kill all of us, or a small flash of light is obviously and alien craft, etc, etc, and so on...

Yes but ...

Put some time, thought and effort into your posts!!!

Alright I will, no need to scream at us.

Edit to add: Spending time on BTS every once in a while is also a good idea to take the edge off a little .... plus we're all very smart in the BTS.

[edit on 6 Sep 2009 by schrodingers dog]

reply to post by sirdumpsalot


Seriously, who cares about the # people say or do?
Nothing is going to change if we keep looking outside for the source of the problem.

I see no difference between what you have called ignorance and stupidity. In my eyes you are just creating outrageous explanations in order to take your responsibility away from the situation. No one chooses to not know. Thats simply not logical, one would have to know before one could choose. And once one knows it cannot be unknowned.

I agree with the OP but I also agree that some of the posting lately are way off target. However, instead of discussing it, some people immediately attack the poster or makes claims about the subject without offering any supportive discussion. That wasn't the case when I joined or at least not as visible.

Now it seems that there is an air of shoot first, then aplogize when called on it. Still, I wish some of the titles weren't as misleading as they seem to be lately. claims of proof, evidence, and other words indicating a solid conclusion or validation of a topic usually lead to an article or video that's not only been discussed already, but still is left up to the readers/viewers own inturpetation.

Overall though, ATS is one of the best sites I've found to stay current on what's going on in several areas I have an interest in. And I can forgive newer members bringing up previously discussed topics and old footage. It wasn't that long ago that I didn't know how to nagivate through this world of search strings and icons.

The thing is, that no one is going to change my mind about something by yelling at me or calling me names, however if they have some evidence or an opposing opinion, I'm all for discussing it with them.

reply to post by Geladinhu


I have zero interest in debating you. I simply stated my opinion, an opinion that disturbs you for some reason. Too bad!
I will say that whats is considered alternative is mainstream, that people form tribes instinctivly, and that I never argue dogma. A zealot is a zealot, doesn't matter what the subject is, the thinking is the same. No, I'm not calling you anything, or implying anything.

reply to post by OldDragger


Well, I got disturbed by your post because I think your opinion is misleading. And since we are trying to deal with truth here I figured that it would be useful to contest and try to debate with someone that disagrees with me about what truth in fact is.

I didn't understand the second part of your post.

I just want to understand what are your motives and interests in coming here and saying all that you are saying (which I interpret as repression and blockage of expansion) specially when you are so quick in saying that you rarely post here and that you have zero interest in debating.

reply to post by Geladinhu


Well, I got disturbed by your post because I think your opinion is misleading. And since we are trying to deal with truth here I figured that it would be useful to contest and try to debate with someone that disagrees with me about what truth in fact is.

Maybe you are trying to deal with "truth" on ATS, I'm here for amusment.
Truth huh? Now there is a slippery concept! Truth seeking on the web! LOL
ATS is a commercial enterprise like McDonalds, MTV and Wall Mart. It was, I assume started by its founders to explore topics they were interested in and hopefully, to make a buck. Good for them! I admire their industriousness and am thankful and enjoy their efforts.
But HOLY TEMPLE of TRUTH it is not, despite some peoples expectations.
If you don't understand what I say, think about it. My opinion is my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

This may be slightly left of the topic, but I just though I would add my 2..

I have been a lurker here for years, and a member for some time as well. I can remember years ago, members were much more willing to listen and respect opinions, and there was much less arguing and bickering. More people(intelligent or otherwise) were willing to contribute because of this acceptance and it was a really good place for exploration of opinion and topic.

Fast forward to today, and just about everything has been hashed, and rehashed to the point that lines are drawn and everyone is quick to bash, flame, and/or disrespect others opinions without due respect. I believe this is the main reason so many who use to contribute have shyed away.

Although I do not post much, and mostly come here for information, I have noticed a lack of origonality and I believe this also is in part of members simply being put off by the all but assurance that they will be confronted and disrespected on just about anything they put forth.

I wish we could simply go back to the days where we all prettymuch respected everyones opinions, and just enjoyed a good conversation, seeking truth and companionship on our journey together reguardless of the topic and viewpoint. I dont know, but I still believe things can change if we want them to. Dont get me wrong, there are still plenty of respectful and intelligent members posting about, but the abundance of nay sayers, and disrespectful members solely looking for a argument has tarnshed a once shining example of fellowship.

Originally posted by Geladinhu
reply to post by sirdumpsalot

 

Seriously, who cares about the # people say or do?
Nothing is going to change if we keep looking outside for the source of the problem.

I see no difference between what you have called ignorance and stupidity. In my eyes you are just creating outrageous explanations in order to take your responsibility away from the situation. No one chooses to not know. Thats simply not logical, one would have to know before one could choose. And once one knows it cannot be unknowned.

Evidently you care, or else you wouldn't be debating the gentlemans opinion. And exactly why are you useing the "big, psychological babel"? The fact is there are ALOT of ignorant people on this site, and the rest who post crap just to get a shock out of someone or to push what they think or feel is "truth and facts" is as distructive as anything. And exactly what does "In my eyes you are just creating outrageous explanations in order to take your responsibility away from the situation" mean? And to say no one chooses to not knopw is also a rediculous claim. Someone decides to post stuff without fact checking, without taking 1 minute of their miserable life to look up the facts in a situation is choosing not to know. Do you realise how many lives have been destroyed and ruined by people who choose to just be dicks and post outrageous claims with no proof, nor doing any fact checking? Imagine you got arrested for climbing threw your own window and all they have to do is look at your liscense to prove you live there and they don't? You would shure as hell care then, correct? Imagine if someone came on here and started accusing someone of a major crime and it was given to the press and they ran with it. That person is 100% liable for the destruction of that persons life and yet what, that doesn't matter to you? How about when someone was on and started a thread that was titled something like "I just heard a gun shot behind my house". WTH was the point? To them it is more important to post that here than to, oh I don't know, call the police. The OP is 100% correct in that the posts and posters and getting out of hand when it comes to misleading readers and filling their posts with either lies or half truths. And you can continue to debate it with us all you want, you have that right. But your argument is just as faulty as alot of the so-called "facts" that these great users are posting. Just keep this in mind, if someone says "this is what I think happen to JFK" instead of "The real reason why and who killed JFK" and have no proof, no evidence of anything atll, they will get an argument whether you or anyone else likes it or not. Again, let the evidence lead you, not the other way around.

I am crying here folks.

Ever since they ruined professional wrestling I have been looking for a laugh out loud source of entertainment with an underlying groundwork of hope & strength. Any good conspiracy site should have the die hard Left & Right, the spiritually growing, the blind cultists, the seekers of fact & fiction, the upset & the glad ...

This is Society and no longer a few good ...
Get used to it.
"the Internet for good or ill"

reply to post by sirdumpsalot


No, I don't care what people think or do. But that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to express my own thoughts and doings. I don't care, but I'm aware.

I'm using the so-called 'big psychological babel' (wth?) because I believe in it? Why would anyone else use any other kind of explanation?

I don't get it, man.
One thing is to notice that something has changed and try to figure out what it is all about, another thing is to complain about the change by letting your emotions overtake the situation. Complaining will lead us nowhere, it will just give us more to complain about. Thats all I'm saying.

So what that people are doing stupid stuff that can mess up with other peoples lives? You don't do anything stupid? If you are so freaking damn perfect why don't you give the example instead of pointing out at all the stupid people that are inferior to you?

Damn, I didn't want to get this serious but if there is one thing worse then people who don't use reason at all it is people that think they are using reason. Pure ignorance is not that bad when you compare it to hypocrisy.

As I've noted elsewhere before, I've been a dedicated Intrawebz Warrior™ ssince the 1991 or so, and on every single BBS, usenet group, mailing list, message board, or other "community" I've encountered since those days, there have been "this place has gone to s***" -type posts starting at most a month after the founding of the site. The "it was better in the old days" posts are inevitable, whether the "old days" in question were a month or 20 years ago.

In the specific case of ATS, I think (?) the number of people reading and posting has grown in the last year or two, and in general, increases in quantity bring with them decreases in quality. That's just basic signal-versus-noise philosophy.

Another factor to keep in mind: the economy is in the dumps and a lot of people are feeling angry and powerless and ripped off in various ways these days. They are lashing out...not always (or even usually) in the most logical of manners. Anger, fear, and frustration "flatten out" the mind and encourage a "fight or flight" mentality. On messageboards, this often takes the form of intense partisan sniping and the reduction of complex phenomena to "two legs bad, four legs good" type pronouncements aimed at various political figures...as if a single individual could ever be responsible for the mess we are in.

In order to have rational, complex, and nuanced discussions, you need a certain detachment, which itself requires a modicum of peace of mind...or at least a disciplined mental space characterized by order and quietude. That kind of thinking takes effort and decays easily in emotional storms. These are tough times and lots of people (particularly those drawn to boards like ATS) recognize that...what we are seeing is anger and panic drowning out rationality and the easy, relaxing expansion of mental horizons that are required for true denial of ignorance. For ignorance is the child of panic and fear, and comes birthed in a caul of anger and bitterness.

post deleted

[edit on 6-9-2009 by aleon1018]

I think the differenc between ATS and other sites is the whole "Deny ignorance" thing. That does imply a certain, ( but vague ) standard.
The moderators do try to establish a civil atmosphere.
I'm sorry if anyones insulted, but most of the posts are well, silly to say the least. Thats the case with all such sites, but when they become the dominant type of post, the quality has gone down.
ATS has a certain style, I'm finding that if you don't conform you will be villified right and left. Free thinkers seem to have thin skins sometimes!

reply to post by OldDragger


It seems as if the longer you are here, the more 'mature' for the most part you become with your posts. This I feel, is where the major conflict comes in, when people blatantly post disinformation or pure opinion without facts. Again, yes this is a conspiracy website, but nothing is going to get done with raw opinions alone!

Now, I am not to say that opinions shouldn't be posted, but just as everybody else, I get frustrated when threads titled "conclusive, indisputable evidence proving..." or people claiming they know all the facts. Nobody truly knows all the facts.

But we can collectively make more progress, beneficial to all of us, if we act in a cooperative and intelligent manner. I know this most likely will never happen... but for ever single member that reads this, for every member that somehow puts more thought into their post... The better for all of us and the community!

I have to admit there is quite a range of posting quality here...

...From the comical to very serious...some not well thought out, to some brilliant insight...

In these times of turmoil, people are looking for any kind of insight into what's around the corner...or some comical relief...

...But fear not, an occasional Rose is still found amongst the thorns...

Here was one of my investigative theories...

Welcome to The Real Matrix: Time for The Red Pill?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

i agree, the quality of these forums has been dropping at an alarming rate. We are reverting into some of the other forums out there.

then again ats is a wave, we have ups and downs. Lets just wait for an up....im sure it will come....right?

reply to post by tmayhew01


It could be in part due to the fact that the theories with meat on their bones have been discussed, debated and argued to the point there is little else to say. So, we get further out there as time passes and the more insane the theories and idea's get the crazier the threads get.

Still there are plenty of good posts. Look to the ones that get little attention. Often they have more red meat on their bones.

I see it like cable TV. Don't like a channel, don't click on it. The free flow of idea's demands we tolerate plenty of nonsense. Bits of truth can come from anywhere.

I too have noticed this, and has kept me from posting as much as I'd like to.
I think it is possible to get this place back to the way it was once before...
....somehow!
Still trying to figure out that 'somehow' part though..

This is the first post ive put up in some time, ... unfortunately I think the board as been inundated with kids basicaly, .... pre-teens who are devoid of logic,

They probably came across this site while doing a search for " Twilight" ... and the possiblity that it was based on a true story, and vampires exist.

Its getting ridiculous.... there should be stricter guidelines for new members ... I remember when I joined, ... I had to write a little about myself, .. and how I can contribute to the board even before I joined.

Although I dont think the idea of new blood is neccesarily bad, .. but these kids are willing to believe and post anything, ... some of them simply trying to get attention in any way possible, and snicker at the attention they may get from their " intelligent" posts, .....

Based on the intelligence and inability to even spell, ... it amazes me that they can even use the internet.

I wrote a post sometime ago about stuff like this ...

www.abovetopsecret.com...