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Short thread- How I faced off against JWs and basically won....
page: 8share:
reply to post by wylekat
Sounds like your having a pretty troubling time on your hands? Truth be told my life has not necessarily been an easy track. In my short time so far on this planet i have lost everything i've ever owned. So has the rest of my siblings and parents. Whether it be through flood(happened) fire (a week or so before christmas) or thieving lawsuits (long story but we got scammed). Truth is through all of it you really have to keep your nose up and chin held high. If someone throws a bag of shpit in your face clean it off and carry on. When it comes to god on the other hand keep looking for what your looking for. Hold the questions you have close to you. The answers will come but life is a test, to see how much you are ready to handle. Never give up but take away lessons from everything from buying a car to dealing with great loss. Stay strong and look to the skies in wonderment and you will find yourself becoming a stronger more infulenced being. Danger and trouble lurk around every corner but the quest of life continues and nothing can get in the way.
Sounds like your having a pretty troubling time on your hands? Truth be told my life has not necessarily been an easy track. In my short time so far on this planet i have lost everything i've ever owned. So has the rest of my siblings and parents. Whether it be through flood(happened) fire (a week or so before christmas) or thieving lawsuits (long story but we got scammed). Truth is through all of it you really have to keep your nose up and chin held high. If someone throws a bag of shpit in your face clean it off and carry on. When it comes to god on the other hand keep looking for what your looking for. Hold the questions you have close to you. The answers will come but life is a test, to see how much you are ready to handle. Never give up but take away lessons from everything from buying a car to dealing with great loss. Stay strong and look to the skies in wonderment and you will find yourself becoming a stronger more infulenced being. Danger and trouble lurk around every corner but the quest of life continues and nothing can get in the way.
Ok- from the top... I am healthy, minus the bad back. The infection thing doesn't work, because of the external effects this has had. (Cats, anything
I had a 'dream' about was true, on and on and on...) I have tried to ignore it. Seriously. I can sit down and be reading my 'how do 3d modeling in
Blender' book, and it hits me. I can be on the can, and it hits me. I can be feeding my chickens, cleaning the house, cooking, or anything- ANYTHING
that has nothing to do with her, or any woman- and it'll hit me. When my nosy ex friend was telling me what I was being force fed was true- it was
then it began to slip out of the 'I'm going insane for some reason' realm. When another friend had a carbon copy of what I usually had dreamwise,
and described my ex to me without any prompting, Just me asking 'description, what was going on in the dream, how did you feel afterwards' The
'I'm nuts' argument began to die pretty violently.
Add in the too many different ways I have been literally forced to be single- the complete and totally ridiculous other various things- and I am sorry, just being sick isn't gonna describe it. If I had the dreams WITHOUT much or any accuracy (like she had 2 boys, ect)- I'd say... yeah. I need medical/ psychiatric help. I didnt believe much at all in anything beyond UFOs- only because I had SEEN some myself... I didnt believe much in ghosts til I had witnessed an actual ghost battle in Chesnee, SC I only witnessed it because the dogs outside were barking their heads off- I only heard some thumping indoors- walked out to flashes of light, explosions- and where this took place.... nothing but a small empty field and a couple roads (I went to look the next day), Every last person I talked to said the ONLY place reenactments happened were at the memorial battlefield, in the opposite direction, 5 miles away... and before that, saw a perfect REAL Ghost ball come right up the street at me on the VA/ NC line several years ago and do a beautiful 90 deg turn into the woods- causing me to nearly mess myself...
I don't admit to freaky until freaky beats me over the head. I have been summarily beat on the head yet again by something that stood up, took my nice, logical theories, and crapped on them.
So... Now whatdoIdo....
[edit on 11-9-2009 by wylekat]
Add in the too many different ways I have been literally forced to be single- the complete and totally ridiculous other various things- and I am sorry, just being sick isn't gonna describe it. If I had the dreams WITHOUT much or any accuracy (like she had 2 boys, ect)- I'd say... yeah. I need medical/ psychiatric help. I didnt believe much at all in anything beyond UFOs- only because I had SEEN some myself... I didnt believe much in ghosts til I had witnessed an actual ghost battle in Chesnee, SC I only witnessed it because the dogs outside were barking their heads off- I only heard some thumping indoors- walked out to flashes of light, explosions- and where this took place.... nothing but a small empty field and a couple roads (I went to look the next day), Every last person I talked to said the ONLY place reenactments happened were at the memorial battlefield, in the opposite direction, 5 miles away... and before that, saw a perfect REAL Ghost ball come right up the street at me on the VA/ NC line several years ago and do a beautiful 90 deg turn into the woods- causing me to nearly mess myself...
I don't admit to freaky until freaky beats me over the head. I have been summarily beat on the head yet again by something that stood up, took my nice, logical theories, and crapped on them.
So... Now whatdoIdo....
[edit on 11-9-2009 by wylekat]
To the OPer...
I wholeheartedly agree with you that man-made religion is nothing but bull#.
HOWEVER!
I can't agree that this means there is no god.
Religion is a tool used by man to gain an advantage over his peers, immediately creating a contradiction in it's own faith.
I didn't believe from the ages of about 8 - 18.. but one man changed my mind.
Aristotle. Pick up some books on Philosophy and maybe you'll have an understanding of god that doesn't require a book that tells you how to lead your life, and gives you questionable rules for your moral principle.
His most memorable quote, IMO, is that "the essence of god is the essence of being," basically meaning that you cannot even conceive an existence without god when you consider "the beginning of time." The big bang theory traces time back to the very smallest possible amount of time before the universe was created, but what happened before that?
In a sense, god literally is all of the matter and energy in the universe. God does not possess human emotions, and god's way of thinking is entirely different than the human thought process; Therefore, any attempt by mankind to understand the creator is futile.
If you believe that only by swearing alliegence to a Messiah is the way into an afterlife, if one exists.. Then you live in a world where god must not love everyone equally, because they all seem to have different opinions than you.
It always boggles my mind when someone believes not living their way of life is going to damn you to an eternity of suffering, even though their very way of life is just as corrupt as anyone else's.
Creed = A thin veil covering a true agenda, which is power.
Think about it.
[edit on 11-9-2009 by thegagefather]
I wholeheartedly agree with you that man-made religion is nothing but bull#.
HOWEVER!
I can't agree that this means there is no god.
Religion is a tool used by man to gain an advantage over his peers, immediately creating a contradiction in it's own faith.
I didn't believe from the ages of about 8 - 18.. but one man changed my mind.
Aristotle. Pick up some books on Philosophy and maybe you'll have an understanding of god that doesn't require a book that tells you how to lead your life, and gives you questionable rules for your moral principle.
His most memorable quote, IMO, is that "the essence of god is the essence of being," basically meaning that you cannot even conceive an existence without god when you consider "the beginning of time." The big bang theory traces time back to the very smallest possible amount of time before the universe was created, but what happened before that?
In a sense, god literally is all of the matter and energy in the universe. God does not possess human emotions, and god's way of thinking is entirely different than the human thought process; Therefore, any attempt by mankind to understand the creator is futile.
If you believe that only by swearing alliegence to a Messiah is the way into an afterlife, if one exists.. Then you live in a world where god must not love everyone equally, because they all seem to have different opinions than you.
It always boggles my mind when someone believes not living their way of life is going to damn you to an eternity of suffering, even though their very way of life is just as corrupt as anyone else's.
Creed = A thin veil covering a true agenda, which is power.
Think about it.
[edit on 11-9-2009 by thegagefather]
I also want to point out- once again- this began 20 years ago. It began when she broke my heart, I found out about her being married, and I
experienced that unearthly scream I mentioned. It was after that I kinda had a few other experiences that would have sent almost anyone else off to
the nut ward permanently. Then... the dreams began. I wont go into them... but suffice to say- any vision or dream I have had about her has been
correct.
And it seems STILL no one, Not God, Not Satan, Or Allah, or Buddha, Or any one of those hundreds of thousands of Hindu and Indian Gods, or any other deity who wants to raise a hand and deliver an answer has so much as a 'How ya doin' " for me. The laws of science, physics, and even the mental health realm don't cover this one. People I talk to look at me like all my marbles not only got lost, they escaped and went into hiding. Any attempts by me to try to scotch tape a logical, 'real world' solution to this gets ripped right off when the problem spits out a new, as before undiscovered wrinkle. Religion (not to be confused with ANY actual deity) has done little more than treat it like a joke with a little pie in the face action. I have taken to task countless preachers, seers, mumbo jumbo people, prophets, and the like- and told them all the same, basic thing: If you have a solution, then first, tell me what her name is. Your powers (or your deity) SHOULD be able to provide you with one, simple name. I have been provided with seeing her name everywhere- so having it handed to you should be nothing at all- hardly any effort.
Silence then grips the room. Or the chatroom. Or the IM window. Then, the subject changes, 'they gotta go', The IM window closes, The chatroom turns to something else. It's happened even on ATS- Heck, I use this as a stunt question for the 'ask the Alien/ being of light/ chosen one/ enlightened one/ ANYTHING' threads. The answer I get is always, ALWAYS the same: 'You are not important/ relevant enough for me to *have* to answer it'. I end up having the jump on the debunkers who then swoop in and start chopping the poster to bits- using my question as a starting point sometimes...
I'll ask it here. Someone who has ANY insight, real Psychic (Not psychotic, had enough, thanks) abilities, actually DOES have a true relationship with God, Can yank a question out of anyone who actually IS a supernatural being- ANY one of you who can tell me her name,you'll have my ear and complete attention. Anyone who tries for 3+ guesses, You get a pie (your choice of flavor) in the face.
See- that's the lynch pin in this whole thing- A simple question, a simple answer- a test no man, woman, or 'being' can, wants to, or is willing, or able to answer. I wont stand and spit in the face of real power. I don't try to be mean if you're trying to be honest and guess... but the ones who try to blow smoke up my bottom- I'll know- and I will NOT be nice about it. Ask Agree2Disagree about that one for a good solid example of how I will handle people like that. Moocow, I know you mean well, and I dunno if you've ever had a super'nut'eral experience- Lemme tell ya, it blows the doors off a nice, logical life, and steals the tires, too. I say 'super 'nut' eral' because when the crap I had happen that I described here and in other posts happened- that was my first reaction: "I'm nuts. That just did NOT happen. Oh $#*^- it DID happen!!! Wha.....????" Then I am off to the library, or more recently, the internet for answers to what I had seen or experienced.
I hate to have to use 'the litmus question'(tm)... but if I gotta.... :-|
[edit on 11-9-2009 by wylekat]
And it seems STILL no one, Not God, Not Satan, Or Allah, or Buddha, Or any one of those hundreds of thousands of Hindu and Indian Gods, or any other deity who wants to raise a hand and deliver an answer has so much as a 'How ya doin' " for me. The laws of science, physics, and even the mental health realm don't cover this one. People I talk to look at me like all my marbles not only got lost, they escaped and went into hiding. Any attempts by me to try to scotch tape a logical, 'real world' solution to this gets ripped right off when the problem spits out a new, as before undiscovered wrinkle. Religion (not to be confused with ANY actual deity) has done little more than treat it like a joke with a little pie in the face action. I have taken to task countless preachers, seers, mumbo jumbo people, prophets, and the like- and told them all the same, basic thing: If you have a solution, then first, tell me what her name is. Your powers (or your deity) SHOULD be able to provide you with one, simple name. I have been provided with seeing her name everywhere- so having it handed to you should be nothing at all- hardly any effort.
Silence then grips the room. Or the chatroom. Or the IM window. Then, the subject changes, 'they gotta go', The IM window closes, The chatroom turns to something else. It's happened even on ATS- Heck, I use this as a stunt question for the 'ask the Alien/ being of light/ chosen one/ enlightened one/ ANYTHING' threads. The answer I get is always, ALWAYS the same: 'You are not important/ relevant enough for me to *have* to answer it'. I end up having the jump on the debunkers who then swoop in and start chopping the poster to bits- using my question as a starting point sometimes...
I'll ask it here. Someone who has ANY insight, real Psychic (Not psychotic, had enough, thanks) abilities, actually DOES have a true relationship with God, Can yank a question out of anyone who actually IS a supernatural being- ANY one of you who can tell me her name,you'll have my ear and complete attention. Anyone who tries for 3+ guesses, You get a pie (your choice of flavor) in the face.
See- that's the lynch pin in this whole thing- A simple question, a simple answer- a test no man, woman, or 'being' can, wants to, or is willing, or able to answer. I wont stand and spit in the face of real power. I don't try to be mean if you're trying to be honest and guess... but the ones who try to blow smoke up my bottom- I'll know- and I will NOT be nice about it. Ask Agree2Disagree about that one for a good solid example of how I will handle people like that. Moocow, I know you mean well, and I dunno if you've ever had a super'nut'eral experience- Lemme tell ya, it blows the doors off a nice, logical life, and steals the tires, too. I say 'super 'nut' eral' because when the crap I had happen that I described here and in other posts happened- that was my first reaction: "I'm nuts. That just did NOT happen. Oh $#*^- it DID happen!!! Wha.....????" Then I am off to the library, or more recently, the internet for answers to what I had seen or experienced.
I hate to have to use 'the litmus question'(tm)... but if I gotta.... :-|
[edit on 11-9-2009 by wylekat]
yesterday i prayed for you and a name popped into my head. i had no idea what it meant, and i still don't. i tried to separate into syllables, looked
up the etymology of the syllables and still nothing, but here it is anyway
chasanticam
or chassanticam
it could be chasanticam
in sections, chas anti cam
or cha(rle)s antic am.
santi means saint. so it could be saint cha(rle)s am. not sure how or what the am means.
may not be relevant, but there it is, nonetheless.
anyway, seems to me nebuchadnezzar said the same thing to the soothsayers and magi and seers, and daniel was the only one who knew the answer.
[edit on 11-9-2009 by undo]
chasanticam
or chassanticam
it could be chasanticam
in sections, chas anti cam
or cha(rle)s antic am.
santi means saint. so it could be saint cha(rle)s am. not sure how or what the am means.
may not be relevant, but there it is, nonetheless.
anyway, seems to me nebuchadnezzar said the same thing to the soothsayers and magi and seers, and daniel was the only one who knew the answer.
[edit on 11-9-2009 by undo]
reply to post by undo
Huh. Now that ya mention it.... I honestly didn't make THAT connection. The Diff? A great powerful king did this- and it's now being copied by some second rate hack in front of a computer. Sometimes, I am just weird
Now, before I go on, I appreciate the effort, and I know you're doing what you can. But... ummm, no. I did run every combination of that word that made sense thru Google anyways... didn't get a match that made any sense. What TRULY worries me is you (I am sure) most likely put in a real, conscious effort to get an answer... and you landed like 10,000 miles off the target. That doesn't make any sense. PLEASE do not think I am sitting here snickering and yelling 'FAIL!' or something mean. I'm a tad... stumped. (and that's an understatement of completely epic proportions!) MY shortcomings in either faith, or God, (or in this case, anyone/ thing else) should have no effect on your being told her name, or a short, snappy answer on what I should be doing to resolve this, or something right around there. Not gotten you... welllll... that. My inaction shouldn't be affecting your ability to ask an honest question, and get an honest, true answer....
*goes for the morning walk, scratching head and muttering in confusion* I'll be back on later. The Chiropractor told me to do an hour or so walk every day so my back will get strengthened- so, off I go. I'll be crawling back in a couple hours.
[edit on 11-9-2009 by wylekat]
seems to me Nebuchadnezzar said the same thing to the soothsayers and magi and seers, and Daniel was the only one who knew the answer.
Huh. Now that ya mention it.... I honestly didn't make THAT connection. The Diff? A great powerful king did this- and it's now being copied by some second rate hack in front of a computer. Sometimes, I am just weird
Now, before I go on, I appreciate the effort, and I know you're doing what you can. But... ummm, no. I did run every combination of that word that made sense thru Google anyways... didn't get a match that made any sense. What TRULY worries me is you (I am sure) most likely put in a real, conscious effort to get an answer... and you landed like 10,000 miles off the target. That doesn't make any sense. PLEASE do not think I am sitting here snickering and yelling 'FAIL!' or something mean. I'm a tad... stumped. (and that's an understatement of completely epic proportions!) MY shortcomings in either faith, or God, (or in this case, anyone/ thing else) should have no effect on your being told her name, or a short, snappy answer on what I should be doing to resolve this, or something right around there. Not gotten you... welllll... that. My inaction shouldn't be affecting your ability to ask an honest question, and get an honest, true answer....
*goes for the morning walk, scratching head and muttering in confusion* I'll be back on later. The Chiropractor told me to do an hour or so walk every day so my back will get strengthened- so, off I go. I'll be crawling back in a couple hours.
[edit on 11-9-2009 by wylekat]
reply to post by wylekat
okay, well i haven't actually prayed to know the answer to your current request. that was just the word that popped into my head yesterday while i was praying for you, before you even mentioned the girl. i thought, when i saw your request today, that i'd tell you that one because that was the word that i "heard" even if it's not related, perhaps it's about something else related to your struggles? but i was like...what's a chasanticam?
okay, well i haven't actually prayed to know the answer to your current request. that was just the word that popped into my head yesterday while i was praying for you, before you even mentioned the girl. i thought, when i saw your request today, that i'd tell you that one because that was the word that i "heard" even if it's not related, perhaps it's about something else related to your struggles? but i was like...what's a chasanticam?
reply to post by undo
So, I'm a little slow. Even when I jump the gun, I'm slow!
Good question! Sounds like something you say while sneezing. Google was no help with it...
So, I'm a little slow. Even when I jump the gun, I'm slow!
...what's a chasanticam?
Good question! Sounds like something you say while sneezing. Google was no help with it...
I'm going to do something I rarely do, especially here on ATS. I'm gonna respond honestly, openly, and Biblically to another poster in a religious
thread. I rarely do this, because it seems no one wants to hear what I have to say and because it generally winds up offending someone.
So if you're going to get offended, go to the next post. No one is asking you to read this; it is intended for wylekat only. If you have some wisecrack about how you don't believe this or you believe that and you think I'm an arrogant SOB for not sharing your beliefs, just shut yer piehole. Someone is hurting, and perhaps, just perhaps, what I am about to type can help a little in some small way.
First of all, my name is not Daniel. I will not answer your riddle. If you choose to ignore this because of that decision, so be it. You have free will to do so.
What you are going through is called a 'faith crisis'. We all have them. What is important is how you use this faith crisis. Everything I have read (and I will admit I only read the first and last sections; this thread is already 8 pages long) tells me where your problem lies. It's not with God.
You earlier pointed out the inconsistently between God being 'in control' and God being responsible for evil. That's because God is not in full control right now, right here. If He were, none of these bad things would have happened to you. God does not want you or me or anyone else to suffer. But you see, there's a catch. God has one limitation, one thing He cannot do... God cannot lie.
Oh, if God wanted to, He could say anything, even if it wasn't the truth right before He said it. But the instance it is uttered by God, it becomes truth. So one little slip of the tongue could change the destiny of mankind forever. God has a plan for the redemption of mankind, and He isn't about to destroy that plan. That's what Satan ('enemy' in the original text) wants to happen. That's the only way he can win against God. There is a literal war being fought right now all around us, a spiritual war between good and evil. We are the front-soldiers, the pawns if you will.
We were created with an understanding of God, who He is and how He does things. We had it all, dominion over the planet, and the ability to create and have free will just like God has:
That's what He created. But nothing can have free will without the ability to use it. If you tell a child to not come out of his room, and then board up all the windows and lock all the doors so he can't possibly come out, your words are meaningless. The child did not obey; the child was forced. So God had to, in order to allow for the free will He had given us, provide a way to disobey Him and choose to not follow His will. That was the Tree of Knowledge. We chose. We chose to not follow God.
Once that decision was made, we were no longer under God's protection. By our own decision, we chose to abandon that protection and make our own way without God. Over the millennia, the things we were created knowing have been forgotten to the ages of time, and we find ourselves in a physical world so full of sensory data, so overwhelming that we don't see the spiritual world we are also inhabiting.
But God had another plan to give us one more chance. He knew what we would be afflicted with and what our lives would be like, and He was not happy with that:
That's not a curse placed on us by God, it is a curse placed on us by ourselves and explained by God.
The decision to disobey God had as one of the consequences death. We would now die physically. But what about our spirit? That was the loophole God used to give us a second chance to return to how we were when we were created. By creating another man, who would not bear the original sin, God was able to allow Him to be sacrificed in our place and thereby allow us to break the curse we had placed upon ourselves.
Yes, that second created man was named Jesus.
Now, we find ourselves still trapped in this physical world which outwardly has not changed. It is still rife with hypocrisy, wars, anger, sickness, injury, death, and everything else that it contained before Jesus came. The physical world has not changed one iota. But the spiritual world has. Before Jesus, no one could pray to God except for those few chosen to do so by God. God would not, could not, hear the voice of a sinner, because to do so would mean that He never really gave us free will in the first place. Animal blood sacrifices were used as a way to partially atone for that original sin enough to allow God to hear a prayer from one He had chosen.
Since Jesus, we can pray to God and God will (and does) hear our prayers. The prayers must be made in the name of Jesus, to acknowledge the gift of His sacrifice, and God, having free will Himself, can choose how, when, or even if He will grant our requests.
The many things that you have described that have happened to you in your life have not been because of God. They are because of Satan. People are still able to make their own choice whether they will follow the examples and teachings that Jesus shared with us, or if they will follow their own feelings and desires. The man who makes fraudulent claims to sell you a product does not follow Jesus, even though he may attend church every time the doors are open. The man who cuts you off in traffic and gives you the finger is not following Jesus, even though he may be a preacher in the local church. The woman who takes advantage of you and leaves you heartbroken is following herself and no one else. Baptist, Catholic, Presbyterian, Jehovah's Witness, Methodist, Church of God, Church of Christ, these are all religions. Christian is not a religion; it is a spiritual relationship.
When you pray, first of all, you must pray in the name of Jesus. You must do so to acknowledge and accept the sacrifice He made, for without that sacrifice God cannot hear you. You must ask for your will to be secondary to His will; asking otherwise only repeats the decision made by Adam and Eve. You should ask broadly; if you need a place to live, do not ask for a five-bedroom townhouse in Manhattan, but rather ask for a place to live. And if the place you are provided with is less than you wanted, be thankful for what you received and ask for a better place to live.
I have a friend who exemplified this recently. He is a truck driver, an owner-operator who had a breakdown shortly after a bad divorce and lost his truck. He had no home after the divorce. He called his bank and told them where the truck was, packed up what he could carry that belonged to him, and started walking from Indiana.
One day, it was raining, one of those cold misty miserable rains that soak you to the bone and freeze you just the same. He was walking along the Interstate when a pickup truck pulling a utility trailer went by him. He watched the tarp flapping in the breeze and then happened to see something fall off the back.
When he reached it, the truck was well out of sight. He picked up a round bag containing a tent. A new tent. One that he could carry with him. He told me he had to sit down on the side of the road for an hour and cry.
You see, he never placed his belief in God at odds with a prayer request. Answered or not, his belief wasn't shaken. He just kept going, and kept thanking God for the things he did have. And as he needed something else, it was provided, whether it was through a chance meeting or a found treasure.
You have to come to that train of thought that says "I believe, regardless of what happens to me, regardless of how bad it gets, regardless of how desperate I may be, I WILL BELIEVE!" I can't tell you how many times I have walked up in this mountain (my 'altar') and shouted aloud at the top of my lungs "I WILL NOT STOP BELIEVING! NO MATTER WHAT THE ENEMY SENDS MY WAY, NO MATTER HOW BAD IT GETS, I WILL PRAISE THE LORD GOD!" Sounds silly doesn't it? It always signifies a turn around for my circumstances. I'd rather be silly than to be hopeless.
My friend, it is a war. Like any physical war, you can't exist neutrally in the midst of it. Satan owns you unless you choose to go to the other side; that decision was made long long ago. God cannot force you to listen; God will not force you to listen. God will not nullify that choice made so long ago. He will simply give us another chance to choose, and accept that choice as well.
My prayers will be with you. May your journey through life become easier. And may your thorns always be but an inconvenience to obtaining roses.
(I now return you to your regularly-scheduled, scientifically-minded redneck)
TheRedneck
So if you're going to get offended, go to the next post. No one is asking you to read this; it is intended for wylekat only. If you have some wisecrack about how you don't believe this or you believe that and you think I'm an arrogant SOB for not sharing your beliefs, just shut yer piehole. Someone is hurting, and perhaps, just perhaps, what I am about to type can help a little in some small way.
First of all, my name is not Daniel. I will not answer your riddle. If you choose to ignore this because of that decision, so be it. You have free will to do so.
What you are going through is called a 'faith crisis'. We all have them. What is important is how you use this faith crisis. Everything I have read (and I will admit I only read the first and last sections; this thread is already 8 pages long) tells me where your problem lies. It's not with God.
You earlier pointed out the inconsistently between God being 'in control' and God being responsible for evil. That's because God is not in full control right now, right here. If He were, none of these bad things would have happened to you. God does not want you or me or anyone else to suffer. But you see, there's a catch. God has one limitation, one thing He cannot do... God cannot lie.
Oh, if God wanted to, He could say anything, even if it wasn't the truth right before He said it. But the instance it is uttered by God, it becomes truth. So one little slip of the tongue could change the destiny of mankind forever. God has a plan for the redemption of mankind, and He isn't about to destroy that plan. That's what Satan ('enemy' in the original text) wants to happen. That's the only way he can win against God. There is a literal war being fought right now all around us, a spiritual war between good and evil. We are the front-soldiers, the pawns if you will.
We were created with an understanding of God, who He is and how He does things. We had it all, dominion over the planet, and the ability to create and have free will just like God has:
Genesis 1:27-30
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28: And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30: And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
That's what He created. But nothing can have free will without the ability to use it. If you tell a child to not come out of his room, and then board up all the windows and lock all the doors so he can't possibly come out, your words are meaningless. The child did not obey; the child was forced. So God had to, in order to allow for the free will He had given us, provide a way to disobey Him and choose to not follow His will. That was the Tree of Knowledge. We chose. We chose to not follow God.
Once that decision was made, we were no longer under God's protection. By our own decision, we chose to abandon that protection and make our own way without God. Over the millennia, the things we were created knowing have been forgotten to the ages of time, and we find ourselves in a physical world so full of sensory data, so overwhelming that we don't see the spiritual world we are also inhabiting.
But God had another plan to give us one more chance. He knew what we would be afflicted with and what our lives would be like, and He was not happy with that:
Genesis 3:17-19
17: And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18: Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19: In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
That's not a curse placed on us by God, it is a curse placed on us by ourselves and explained by God.
The decision to disobey God had as one of the consequences death. We would now die physically. But what about our spirit? That was the loophole God used to give us a second chance to return to how we were when we were created. By creating another man, who would not bear the original sin, God was able to allow Him to be sacrificed in our place and thereby allow us to break the curse we had placed upon ourselves.
Yes, that second created man was named Jesus.
Now, we find ourselves still trapped in this physical world which outwardly has not changed. It is still rife with hypocrisy, wars, anger, sickness, injury, death, and everything else that it contained before Jesus came. The physical world has not changed one iota. But the spiritual world has. Before Jesus, no one could pray to God except for those few chosen to do so by God. God would not, could not, hear the voice of a sinner, because to do so would mean that He never really gave us free will in the first place. Animal blood sacrifices were used as a way to partially atone for that original sin enough to allow God to hear a prayer from one He had chosen.
Since Jesus, we can pray to God and God will (and does) hear our prayers. The prayers must be made in the name of Jesus, to acknowledge the gift of His sacrifice, and God, having free will Himself, can choose how, when, or even if He will grant our requests.
The many things that you have described that have happened to you in your life have not been because of God. They are because of Satan. People are still able to make their own choice whether they will follow the examples and teachings that Jesus shared with us, or if they will follow their own feelings and desires. The man who makes fraudulent claims to sell you a product does not follow Jesus, even though he may attend church every time the doors are open. The man who cuts you off in traffic and gives you the finger is not following Jesus, even though he may be a preacher in the local church. The woman who takes advantage of you and leaves you heartbroken is following herself and no one else. Baptist, Catholic, Presbyterian, Jehovah's Witness, Methodist, Church of God, Church of Christ, these are all religions. Christian is not a religion; it is a spiritual relationship.
When you pray, first of all, you must pray in the name of Jesus. You must do so to acknowledge and accept the sacrifice He made, for without that sacrifice God cannot hear you. You must ask for your will to be secondary to His will; asking otherwise only repeats the decision made by Adam and Eve. You should ask broadly; if you need a place to live, do not ask for a five-bedroom townhouse in Manhattan, but rather ask for a place to live. And if the place you are provided with is less than you wanted, be thankful for what you received and ask for a better place to live.
I have a friend who exemplified this recently. He is a truck driver, an owner-operator who had a breakdown shortly after a bad divorce and lost his truck. He had no home after the divorce. He called his bank and told them where the truck was, packed up what he could carry that belonged to him, and started walking from Indiana.
One day, it was raining, one of those cold misty miserable rains that soak you to the bone and freeze you just the same. He was walking along the Interstate when a pickup truck pulling a utility trailer went by him. He watched the tarp flapping in the breeze and then happened to see something fall off the back.
When he reached it, the truck was well out of sight. He picked up a round bag containing a tent. A new tent. One that he could carry with him. He told me he had to sit down on the side of the road for an hour and cry.
You see, he never placed his belief in God at odds with a prayer request. Answered or not, his belief wasn't shaken. He just kept going, and kept thanking God for the things he did have. And as he needed something else, it was provided, whether it was through a chance meeting or a found treasure.
You have to come to that train of thought that says "I believe, regardless of what happens to me, regardless of how bad it gets, regardless of how desperate I may be, I WILL BELIEVE!" I can't tell you how many times I have walked up in this mountain (my 'altar') and shouted aloud at the top of my lungs "I WILL NOT STOP BELIEVING! NO MATTER WHAT THE ENEMY SENDS MY WAY, NO MATTER HOW BAD IT GETS, I WILL PRAISE THE LORD GOD!" Sounds silly doesn't it? It always signifies a turn around for my circumstances. I'd rather be silly than to be hopeless.
My friend, it is a war. Like any physical war, you can't exist neutrally in the midst of it. Satan owns you unless you choose to go to the other side; that decision was made long long ago. God cannot force you to listen; God will not force you to listen. God will not nullify that choice made so long ago. He will simply give us another chance to choose, and accept that choice as well.
My prayers will be with you. May your journey through life become easier. And may your thorns always be but an inconvenience to obtaining roses.
(I now return you to your regularly-scheduled, scientifically-minded redneck)
TheRedneck
I don't know whether or not you are still ignoring me, however, I would like to aologize for my rudeness. I tend to get a little bloated with emotions
sometimes.
I haven't had the time to really sit and pray/meditate, however, when you mention this lady friend I do have a particular name that resonates in my mind. I won't mention it YET as I still must pray and meditate on it for awhile.
Questions like these are difficult to get answered. It's similar to when Satan tested Jesus in the bible. He said to throw himself down so that the angels could save him. I don't know if I will be able to do this but I will put forth an honest effort if you are willing to renounce our differences friend.
Again, I apologize for the previous debacle of tongues.
A2D
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
I haven't had the time to really sit and pray/meditate, however, when you mention this lady friend I do have a particular name that resonates in my mind. I won't mention it YET as I still must pray and meditate on it for awhile.
Questions like these are difficult to get answered. It's similar to when Satan tested Jesus in the bible. He said to throw himself down so that the angels could save him. I don't know if I will be able to do this but I will put forth an honest effort if you are willing to renounce our differences friend.
Again, I apologize for the previous debacle of tongues.
A2D
reply to post by TheRedneck
One of the WORST things was having my belief and faith shaken so bad, it was pulverized. One of the worst things right along this vein is the fact my belief and faith was shaken to death BY THE VERY PEOPLE WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN HELPING ME BUILD IT!
Let me step away from the saga of my ex, and give you another goodie:
For some time, I always wanted a VW bug. I mean, the actual VW bug, and not one of the 'new' bugs (meaning- I wanted one BEFORE there were new VWs). Anyhoo, I had bought a station wagon literally that had been driven by an older lady (think little old lady, just not exactly that concept). It was in fair shape, but after I had driven, driven, and driven it some more- always trying my best to take care of the car- one day, the main seal (forgot what it's called) broke. At this time, I was working for my ex boss- a Christian- who liked to do things that I frankly am embarrassed to put on here- He'd 'act gay' at me, due to my singleness. The man had a wife and 12 kids, and would do crap at me. If I had slugged him.....
Anyways, after that one seal went belly up, the car just couldn't stay together. I decided to sell the poor thing, because the repairs were outstripping my keeping it on the road and being able to repair it properly.
During this time, I found a VW bug. It wasn't a perfect bug. It also, coincidentally, was right after the last Herbie movie came out. It had/ has it's problems. It however was a lot easier to fix til my back gave up the ship.
The entire, ENTIRE time from when I got it to when I stopped working for that man because I got evicted from my apt- long story why, involves a crooked landlord and condos- My boss insulted, ridiculed, and pooh poohed my owning that bug. Thing is- I was 100% convinced God gave me this car, thru the timing, thru finding and borrowing the right amounts of money at the right times, everything! He denigrated everything about it. He pushed and pushed that God wasn't behind any of it. He did this with ANYTHING that I wanted to do. Even (and trust me, I couldn't believe this) when I confided in his sorry oldest daughter a couple things, she told daddy, and daddy used it for his own entertainment! She always loved to go on about how 'spirit filled' she was. Yah. Right. I could go on for the next half dozen full thread pages- but people don't wanna go blind reading text going on forever. Just keep in mind, there's buckets more- and not just from him- others have danced happily across me- doesn't matter how strong I was, doesn't matter what I had seen, prayed about, prayed for... Which is one reason those pithy 'oh, God's not a vending machine' threads burn my briskets. That bug was one of the very rare, very few things that I prayed hard and steady for- I needed a car, I needed a TOUGH car, and 'gee God, can I have a bug?'
I do need to throw this in, since it does go under the heading "and then, we took a short trip into the Twilight Zone".
One of the things that honestly, and truly thrown me over was when my ex boss said and possibly did something that honestly frightened and made me finally turn my back on God:
The dream job I was well and truly trying for. My basic plan was 'save up a little cash, move, and get the thing. I wont go into the lurid details... but when I had failed miserably to manage to get moved, he said "well, I DID pray God would stop you from getting it!" I'm sorry, you WHAT?! He what? And this prayer got answered???? I lost my mind from the implications.
That's about the time I started to ask God what side he worked for.... Allow it, do it, at that point, I didn't give a flying flip- I felt completely betrayed by God.
You see, he never placed his belief in God at odds with a prayer request. Answered or not, his belief wasn't shaken.
One of the WORST things was having my belief and faith shaken so bad, it was pulverized. One of the worst things right along this vein is the fact my belief and faith was shaken to death BY THE VERY PEOPLE WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN HELPING ME BUILD IT!
Let me step away from the saga of my ex, and give you another goodie:
For some time, I always wanted a VW bug. I mean, the actual VW bug, and not one of the 'new' bugs (meaning- I wanted one BEFORE there were new VWs). Anyhoo, I had bought a station wagon literally that had been driven by an older lady (think little old lady, just not exactly that concept). It was in fair shape, but after I had driven, driven, and driven it some more- always trying my best to take care of the car- one day, the main seal (forgot what it's called) broke. At this time, I was working for my ex boss- a Christian- who liked to do things that I frankly am embarrassed to put on here- He'd 'act gay' at me, due to my singleness. The man had a wife and 12 kids, and would do crap at me. If I had slugged him.....
Anyways, after that one seal went belly up, the car just couldn't stay together. I decided to sell the poor thing, because the repairs were outstripping my keeping it on the road and being able to repair it properly.
During this time, I found a VW bug. It wasn't a perfect bug. It also, coincidentally, was right after the last Herbie movie came out. It had/ has it's problems. It however was a lot easier to fix til my back gave up the ship.
The entire, ENTIRE time from when I got it to when I stopped working for that man because I got evicted from my apt- long story why, involves a crooked landlord and condos- My boss insulted, ridiculed, and pooh poohed my owning that bug. Thing is- I was 100% convinced God gave me this car, thru the timing, thru finding and borrowing the right amounts of money at the right times, everything! He denigrated everything about it. He pushed and pushed that God wasn't behind any of it. He did this with ANYTHING that I wanted to do. Even (and trust me, I couldn't believe this) when I confided in his sorry oldest daughter a couple things, she told daddy, and daddy used it for his own entertainment! She always loved to go on about how 'spirit filled' she was. Yah. Right. I could go on for the next half dozen full thread pages- but people don't wanna go blind reading text going on forever. Just keep in mind, there's buckets more- and not just from him- others have danced happily across me- doesn't matter how strong I was, doesn't matter what I had seen, prayed about, prayed for... Which is one reason those pithy 'oh, God's not a vending machine' threads burn my briskets. That bug was one of the very rare, very few things that I prayed hard and steady for- I needed a car, I needed a TOUGH car, and 'gee God, can I have a bug?'
I do need to throw this in, since it does go under the heading "and then, we took a short trip into the Twilight Zone".
One of the things that honestly, and truly thrown me over was when my ex boss said and possibly did something that honestly frightened and made me finally turn my back on God:
The dream job I was well and truly trying for. My basic plan was 'save up a little cash, move, and get the thing. I wont go into the lurid details... but when I had failed miserably to manage to get moved, he said "well, I DID pray God would stop you from getting it!" I'm sorry, you WHAT?! He what? And this prayer got answered???? I lost my mind from the implications.
That's about the time I started to ask God what side he worked for.... Allow it, do it, at that point, I didn't give a flying flip- I felt completely betrayed by God.
reply to post by wylekat
I wish, God I wish I had an easy answer for you. I don't. I have an answer, but it is not an easy one. Please let me explain what I am hearing from a spiritual perspective.
You prayed for a car, a tough car, and you made a specific request for it to be a VW Bug (which, btw, I used to drive... AWESOME little things!). That prayer was answered... or was it? Obviously the prayer for a tough car was answered, but is it possible that the fact it was a Bug had something to do with the fact that you wanted one and therefore were spiritually tuned into them? In any case, though, that prayer was answered.
Your boss did not get any prayers answered from God. That much I can assure you. Remember what I said about the enemy, Satan? If any prayers were answered for him, it was by that entity, not by God. You see, Satan is a spiritual being as well, and Satan has the advantage over God in the physical realm we inhabit. Satan is not bound by a love for us. Satan can pretty much do as he wants, until someone with enough faith comes along to put him in his place.
You're right; those who should have been helping build your faith were busy trying to destroy it. That right there is the tip-off as to where their true spiritual loyalties lie. No true follower of Jesus would ever try to hurt another child of God in order to achieve a selfish goal. It doesn't matter whether he says he's a Christian; what matters is whether he acts as a Christian.
As to the dream job... maybe there's a reason why you didn't get it. I don't know the reason, but I do know many times when I was disappointed, really seriously disappointed that I had that rug pulled out from under me at the last minute, I later discovered a reason why. There was a future there that I didn't want but that I couldn't see at the time. In a few cases, I am sure I would have died had I gotten what I wanted so desperately. This has happened so many times that now I rarely ask for much of anything material. I simply trust that if there is a need, God will answer it for me in the best way. That doesn't mean I don't ask for things, it means if I need a new car, I always say something to the effect of, "You know my car is broke. How about helping me out?" It's then up to God whether he makes a way for me to fix it, sends someone to me to fix it, has someone give me a car (or sell it for just what I have), or makes it possible for me to make enough money to buy a car of my choice. Usually He doesn't do the latter, and with good reason. If I have money, I might buy a worse clunker than I have now.
Incidentally, I now do not have a running vehicle. Both pickups broke down at the same time. The Chevy is gonna take a LOT of work to get the computer controls back like they are supposed to be since they were changed out from another car with different sensors, and the LUV needs head work. The parts are all special order with an average of two weeks for delivery. But God made a way: I drive the company van. I therefore always have a way to work, and I make a bit more since I am a designated driver.
I am looking at this situation as telling me there is a reason I am to stay with this company, even though the job sucks pretty bad. So I'll stay, as long as God wants me to. he'll let me know when it's time to move on, and make a way for it to happen.
In short, you were tricked by Satan. It's a fairly common tactic he uses a lot. He messes up your life all the while making you think you are dealing with God. Then when things turn out lousy for you, you blame God instead of Satan. When you were dealing with your boss and his daughter, God was not in the equation. They lied to you. Satan lied to you. Satan may indeed have lied to them as well, making them think they were serving God while all the time they were busily doing his dirty work.
Like I said, it's a war. All's fair in love and war... that's Satan's view anyway.
Here's what to look for to see if someone is a Christian:
That said, you should remember that Christians are human too, and make just as many mistakes as anyone else. The difference is how they react to those mistakes. If they just shrug those mistakes off and go on to do it again and again and again, they're not listening to God. If they make a mistake and really are sorry they did it, then maybe they are.
Like I said, it's not an easy answer. It's never easy when you've been made to play the fool. But God didn't do that, Satan in conjunction with your boss and his daughter did. So the one you should be angry at is Satan.
Want to know the best way to hurt him back? Deny him the thing he wants most: you.
TheRedneck
One of the WORST things was having my belief and faith shaken so bad, it was pulverized. One of the worst things right along this vein is the fact my belief and faith was shaken to death BY THE VERY PEOPLE WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN HELPING ME BUILD IT!
I wish, God I wish I had an easy answer for you. I don't. I have an answer, but it is not an easy one. Please let me explain what I am hearing from a spiritual perspective.
You prayed for a car, a tough car, and you made a specific request for it to be a VW Bug (which, btw, I used to drive... AWESOME little things!). That prayer was answered... or was it? Obviously the prayer for a tough car was answered, but is it possible that the fact it was a Bug had something to do with the fact that you wanted one and therefore were spiritually tuned into them? In any case, though, that prayer was answered.
Your boss did not get any prayers answered from God. That much I can assure you. Remember what I said about the enemy, Satan? If any prayers were answered for him, it was by that entity, not by God. You see, Satan is a spiritual being as well, and Satan has the advantage over God in the physical realm we inhabit. Satan is not bound by a love for us. Satan can pretty much do as he wants, until someone with enough faith comes along to put him in his place.
You're right; those who should have been helping build your faith were busy trying to destroy it. That right there is the tip-off as to where their true spiritual loyalties lie. No true follower of Jesus would ever try to hurt another child of God in order to achieve a selfish goal. It doesn't matter whether he says he's a Christian; what matters is whether he acts as a Christian.
As to the dream job... maybe there's a reason why you didn't get it. I don't know the reason, but I do know many times when I was disappointed, really seriously disappointed that I had that rug pulled out from under me at the last minute, I later discovered a reason why. There was a future there that I didn't want but that I couldn't see at the time. In a few cases, I am sure I would have died had I gotten what I wanted so desperately. This has happened so many times that now I rarely ask for much of anything material. I simply trust that if there is a need, God will answer it for me in the best way. That doesn't mean I don't ask for things, it means if I need a new car, I always say something to the effect of, "You know my car is broke. How about helping me out?" It's then up to God whether he makes a way for me to fix it, sends someone to me to fix it, has someone give me a car (or sell it for just what I have), or makes it possible for me to make enough money to buy a car of my choice. Usually He doesn't do the latter, and with good reason. If I have money, I might buy a worse clunker than I have now.
Incidentally, I now do not have a running vehicle. Both pickups broke down at the same time. The Chevy is gonna take a LOT of work to get the computer controls back like they are supposed to be since they were changed out from another car with different sensors, and the LUV needs head work. The parts are all special order with an average of two weeks for delivery. But God made a way: I drive the company van. I therefore always have a way to work, and I make a bit more since I am a designated driver.
I am looking at this situation as telling me there is a reason I am to stay with this company, even though the job sucks pretty bad. So I'll stay, as long as God wants me to. he'll let me know when it's time to move on, and make a way for it to happen.
In short, you were tricked by Satan. It's a fairly common tactic he uses a lot. He messes up your life all the while making you think you are dealing with God. Then when things turn out lousy for you, you blame God instead of Satan. When you were dealing with your boss and his daughter, God was not in the equation. They lied to you. Satan lied to you. Satan may indeed have lied to them as well, making them think they were serving God while all the time they were busily doing his dirty work.
Like I said, it's a war. All's fair in love and war... that's Satan's view anyway.
Here's what to look for to see if someone is a Christian:
- A Christian will never ask God to harm you. Period.
- A Christian will not make fun of you for believing in God.
- A Christian will believe the Bible, even when it says they are in the wrong.
- A Christian will never go behind you back, except possibly to God Himself.
- A Christian will try to help you to strengthen your faith.
That said, you should remember that Christians are human too, and make just as many mistakes as anyone else. The difference is how they react to those mistakes. If they just shrug those mistakes off and go on to do it again and again and again, they're not listening to God. If they make a mistake and really are sorry they did it, then maybe they are.
Like I said, it's not an easy answer. It's never easy when you've been made to play the fool. But God didn't do that, Satan in conjunction with your boss and his daughter did. So the one you should be angry at is Satan.
Want to know the best way to hurt him back? Deny him the thing he wants most: you.
TheRedneck
reply to post by TheRedneck
What I also need to throw in the mix (which no one comprehends 99% of the time) is the fact I am doing all of this O solo mio. There's no family, there's (obviously) no g/f, or wife- My poor friends have enough to deal with as it is- and I don't like feeling like a leech. Yes, I know. I have God. Problem with that: Sometimes, I'd like a 'real', physical entity to talk to, vent at, and for crying out loud HELP ME with some stuff. I always feel put out with 'where 2 or more are gathered' because 99.99999999999% of the time, it's JUST ME. I felt like I'm shouting into a hole when I used to pray. Before I completely quit, I used to begin some prayers with 'Well, I'm still 1 short of 2 or more!"
Think about it- I am struggling along alone, and I had 'Christians' borking me every chance they saw fit... Who wouldn't fold? However- give me credit- I got thru 20 years of this sort of nonsense before I went under.
What I also need to throw in the mix (which no one comprehends 99% of the time) is the fact I am doing all of this O solo mio. There's no family, there's (obviously) no g/f, or wife- My poor friends have enough to deal with as it is- and I don't like feeling like a leech. Yes, I know. I have God. Problem with that: Sometimes, I'd like a 'real', physical entity to talk to, vent at, and for crying out loud HELP ME with some stuff. I always feel put out with 'where 2 or more are gathered' because 99.99999999999% of the time, it's JUST ME. I felt like I'm shouting into a hole when I used to pray. Before I completely quit, I used to begin some prayers with 'Well, I'm still 1 short of 2 or more!"
Think about it- I am struggling along alone, and I had 'Christians' borking me every chance they saw fit... Who wouldn't fold? However- give me credit- I got thru 20 years of this sort of nonsense before I went under.
reply to post by TheRedneck
And this is where we'll disagree til we both turn green in the face: God has Satan on a leash. God (supposedly) steps in and stops Satan cold on various things- Now... read the above post about my lack of a counterpart. Why is God turning the screws on me, and allowing Satan to yank off parts when I am on my own nearly completely and pretty much naked in the wind? You might think I am a little off, but I used to be solidly convinced that if I had (As I try to find the right words) MY right, perfect wife- the one custom 'made' for me (A pretty off way of putting it, but I hope you know what I mean)- I'd be well balanced, sane, and to be perfectly honest- well nigh unstoppable where Satan's concerned. Every so often, I get a tiny, tiny few seconds of that feeling, like a ray of sunlight in a tornado.... But....
Now.... I'm solidly convinced it's far too late for me to find someone. "You're defeated by your words", you say. No.... I had actions happen which have bellowed decibels above simple words. All I am doing is reporting the outcome.
the one you should be angry at is Satan.
And this is where we'll disagree til we both turn green in the face: God has Satan on a leash. God (supposedly) steps in and stops Satan cold on various things- Now... read the above post about my lack of a counterpart. Why is God turning the screws on me, and allowing Satan to yank off parts when I am on my own nearly completely and pretty much naked in the wind? You might think I am a little off, but I used to be solidly convinced that if I had (As I try to find the right words) MY right, perfect wife- the one custom 'made' for me (A pretty off way of putting it, but I hope you know what I mean)- I'd be well balanced, sane, and to be perfectly honest- well nigh unstoppable where Satan's concerned. Every so often, I get a tiny, tiny few seconds of that feeling, like a ray of sunlight in a tornado.... But....
Now.... I'm solidly convinced it's far too late for me to find someone. "You're defeated by your words", you say. No.... I had actions happen which have bellowed decibels above simple words. All I am doing is reporting the outcome.
reply to post by wylekat
I've heard preachers say that, but I have yet to find it in the Bible.
The closest I have found is in the story of Job. Satan comes before God and God taunts him with Job. Satan complains that God has a 'hedge' (of protection) around Job. So God moves the hedge.
Now we could together come up with maybe a thousand interpretations of why God did that and why God was talking to His supposed enemy in His own throne room, so to speak, but what I want to address is that Satan was pretty much doing as he wanted on earth, with only certain things that God had closed to him. As far as closing off Job in the first place, the verses before say that Job 'walked with God', indicating this was the reason there was a hedge there in the first place.
If God had a leash on Satan, and if God loved His children (us, humanity), then why would God ever let him loose at all? Why would he be called the enemy? That simply doesn't make sense.
In reality, God has no leash on Satan. Satan rebelled against God; Satan refused God. Now Satan is a roaming spirit who has free reign on the earth. But he is also a defeated foe, since Jesus defeated him during the three days before His resurrection. Satan has no real power over us unless we give it to him. God exercises no real power over us individually unless we invite Him. Think of it this way: consider our souls, our minds, as houses. God has a key, but He won't just walk in without asking first. Satan would be happy to walk in uninvited, but Jesus took his key. All Satan can do is stand outside and ask to be let in. He can disguise his looks, his voice, pretend to be the pizza delivery guy, but he can't get in unless we unlock the door.
The problem is that we continue to leave the door unlocked! Some guy shows up at the door saying Jesus sent him, and we just open the door without asking to see if he's being truthful. Once inside, we get to hear those whispers, those little flashes of thought that tell us, "Hey, nobody will know if I take a few bucks from the register. I'm underpaid anyway", or, "Hey, that guy is weak. It'll be fun to tease him about his lack of faith. I'm really not hurting anyone; after all, it's just words."
You personally know how that works out.
Now, does God have everything under control to make things work out the way He wants? Sure! He can do that without intruding on the individual, because society does not work like an individual.
Jesus admonished His followers to "test every spirit", and for good reason. There are plenty of spirits out there who are not following God, but rather are following Satan. Listening to the wrong spirit can cause people to behave like that boss of yours. And remember that this planet and this physical reality is the domain of Satan. Angelic beings from God must fight their way here, as the angel that appeared to Daniel had to do.
Does this mean you can't trust anyone? Certainly not! You just have to be cautious who you trust, and keep in mind that men can lie. There are good Christians out there who would all love to help you in any way they possibly could. Unfortunately, they can be hard to find. They tend to stay around churches often, and only those churches who preach the truth (or at least as close as we can get to understanding the truth). Just walking into the local church building does not mean you are guaranteed to be talking to real Christians who follow Jesus. You have to test the spirits.
Here's an idea: tonight, pray. Pray that God will hear you, thanking Jesus for making that possible. Pray that God's will be done. Thank Him for everything you can think of, if nothing else for the fact that you are still alive. Then ask Him for something. Ask for someone to help guide you, someone who can help you make that leap from the physical to the spiritual. End the prayer with the words "in Jesus' name I pray", just before the "Amen". Then go to sleep.
Someone will come to you. I don't know who, but someone will. It might be a homeless hobo you happen to find underneath a bridge. It might be a businessman in a three-piece suit. It might be a woman. But whoever it is, test them first before you accept them. Talk to them about minor issues at first, then check their answers with the Bible. If they don't seem to jibe, bring it up to them for an explanation, then check that out the same way. DO NOT assume that the next person you meet will be from God; Satan can hear prayers as well (there are ways around that, but that's for later). Satan may well try to intercept your answer. So be cautious, but be hopeful. Someone will come.
You haven't lost faith, my friend. You are hurting, and rightly so. But the very fact you wrote this thread, and the very fact that you are talking to me are evidence that there is still some faith inside you. It's just being stretched kinda thin.
You also are not alone. I'm right here, any time you need me. By my count, you + me = 2.
TheRedneck
God has Satan on a leash.
I've heard preachers say that, but I have yet to find it in the Bible.
The closest I have found is in the story of Job. Satan comes before God and God taunts him with Job. Satan complains that God has a 'hedge' (of protection) around Job. So God moves the hedge.
Now we could together come up with maybe a thousand interpretations of why God did that and why God was talking to His supposed enemy in His own throne room, so to speak, but what I want to address is that Satan was pretty much doing as he wanted on earth, with only certain things that God had closed to him. As far as closing off Job in the first place, the verses before say that Job 'walked with God', indicating this was the reason there was a hedge there in the first place.
If God had a leash on Satan, and if God loved His children (us, humanity), then why would God ever let him loose at all? Why would he be called the enemy? That simply doesn't make sense.
In reality, God has no leash on Satan. Satan rebelled against God; Satan refused God. Now Satan is a roaming spirit who has free reign on the earth. But he is also a defeated foe, since Jesus defeated him during the three days before His resurrection. Satan has no real power over us unless we give it to him. God exercises no real power over us individually unless we invite Him. Think of it this way: consider our souls, our minds, as houses. God has a key, but He won't just walk in without asking first. Satan would be happy to walk in uninvited, but Jesus took his key. All Satan can do is stand outside and ask to be let in. He can disguise his looks, his voice, pretend to be the pizza delivery guy, but he can't get in unless we unlock the door.
The problem is that we continue to leave the door unlocked! Some guy shows up at the door saying Jesus sent him, and we just open the door without asking to see if he's being truthful. Once inside, we get to hear those whispers, those little flashes of thought that tell us, "Hey, nobody will know if I take a few bucks from the register. I'm underpaid anyway", or, "Hey, that guy is weak. It'll be fun to tease him about his lack of faith. I'm really not hurting anyone; after all, it's just words."
You personally know how that works out.
Now, does God have everything under control to make things work out the way He wants? Sure! He can do that without intruding on the individual, because society does not work like an individual.
Jesus admonished His followers to "test every spirit", and for good reason. There are plenty of spirits out there who are not following God, but rather are following Satan. Listening to the wrong spirit can cause people to behave like that boss of yours. And remember that this planet and this physical reality is the domain of Satan. Angelic beings from God must fight their way here, as the angel that appeared to Daniel had to do.
Does this mean you can't trust anyone? Certainly not! You just have to be cautious who you trust, and keep in mind that men can lie. There are good Christians out there who would all love to help you in any way they possibly could. Unfortunately, they can be hard to find. They tend to stay around churches often, and only those churches who preach the truth (or at least as close as we can get to understanding the truth). Just walking into the local church building does not mean you are guaranteed to be talking to real Christians who follow Jesus. You have to test the spirits.
Here's an idea: tonight, pray. Pray that God will hear you, thanking Jesus for making that possible. Pray that God's will be done. Thank Him for everything you can think of, if nothing else for the fact that you are still alive. Then ask Him for something. Ask for someone to help guide you, someone who can help you make that leap from the physical to the spiritual. End the prayer with the words "in Jesus' name I pray", just before the "Amen". Then go to sleep.
Someone will come to you. I don't know who, but someone will. It might be a homeless hobo you happen to find underneath a bridge. It might be a businessman in a three-piece suit. It might be a woman. But whoever it is, test them first before you accept them. Talk to them about minor issues at first, then check their answers with the Bible. If they don't seem to jibe, bring it up to them for an explanation, then check that out the same way. DO NOT assume that the next person you meet will be from God; Satan can hear prayers as well (there are ways around that, but that's for later). Satan may well try to intercept your answer. So be cautious, but be hopeful. Someone will come.
You haven't lost faith, my friend. You are hurting, and rightly so. But the very fact you wrote this thread, and the very fact that you are talking to me are evidence that there is still some faith inside you. It's just being stretched kinda thin.
You also are not alone. I'm right here, any time you need me. By my count, you + me = 2.
TheRedneck
Here's an idea: tonight, pray. Pray that God will hear you, thanking Jesus for making that possible. Pray that God's will be done. Thank Him for everything you can think of, if nothing else for the fact that you are still alive. Then ask Him for something. Ask for someone to help guide you, someone who can help you make that leap from the physical to the spiritual. End the prayer with the words "in Jesus' name I pray", just before the "Amen". Then go to sleep.
I did that. Take what happened next as you want- I am just reporting what happened:
First, sleep didn't happen, I began to itch in various spots. I began to drift off to sleep, then my stomach acted WAY up, and I ended up dealing with an acid tummy (guess who's buying some tums today). While I am lying on my back and STILL trying to sleep, my male cat starts bouncing up and down on the corner of the mattress. Honestly, it felt like he was doing a trampoline routine. I finally swung down to his end, got in his face and threatened him with all sorts of stuff.
THEN I got to go to sleep.
I did wake up a little more decent than usual this morning- tho my male cat acts pretty danged paranoid at the moment- he jumps at anything. I seriously doubt my empty threats were the reason....
reply to post by wylekat
OK, since I can take what happened next any way I want, I'll take it that you said the prayer, got some sleep, and scared your cat silly.
Don't feel bad. I scare mine a lot too.
Now, all you have to do is wait. Go about your daily life just as you normally would. Your answer is coming. You will meet someone who will help you. Just remember that it may not be the way you expect it to be, so watch those expectations.
OK, I left out one important thing: you have to believe, really believe, that this time it will happen. Every time you get down and start thinking "No, it didn't happen before, so it won't happen this time", yell at yourself that you WILL believe in the coming answer to that prayer, no matter what.
I promise you it won't be easy. It never is. Satan will be whispering in your ear the whole time how you're living a pipe dream, how it never worked before, how silly you look hanging onto hope with no evidence that anything will happen. That's his job; it's what he does. And believe me, he is pretty good at it. He has to be. Because he's lying to you.
Ignore the lies, hold on to the truth. And keep talking to me all you want, here or via U2U. As long as you want to get through this, we wil get you through this.
Oh, and when you do meet someone to help you, when that prayer is answered, don't claim the credit for yourself. Give credit where credit is due.
TheRedneck
OK, since I can take what happened next any way I want, I'll take it that you said the prayer, got some sleep, and scared your cat silly.
Don't feel bad. I scare mine a lot too.
Now, all you have to do is wait. Go about your daily life just as you normally would. Your answer is coming. You will meet someone who will help you. Just remember that it may not be the way you expect it to be, so watch those expectations.
OK, I left out one important thing: you have to believe, really believe, that this time it will happen. Every time you get down and start thinking "No, it didn't happen before, so it won't happen this time", yell at yourself that you WILL believe in the coming answer to that prayer, no matter what.
I promise you it won't be easy. It never is. Satan will be whispering in your ear the whole time how you're living a pipe dream, how it never worked before, how silly you look hanging onto hope with no evidence that anything will happen. That's his job; it's what he does. And believe me, he is pretty good at it. He has to be. Because he's lying to you.
Ignore the lies, hold on to the truth. And keep talking to me all you want, here or via U2U. As long as you want to get through this, we wil get you through this.
Oh, and when you do meet someone to help you, when that prayer is answered, don't claim the credit for yourself. Give credit where credit is due.
TheRedneck
Actually, I only notice I have problems getting to sleep when something's going to happen (I have something I need to do early in the morning), or
something's changed, preventing me from a good sleep, and therefore I am cranky and not concentrating the next day.
Satan can whisper all he wants. It's like this: I have waited for 20 years for someone to be 'dumped on my doorstep' (not literally). I've heard all of the arguments AGAINST me having someone- so now, it's like listening to a kid who's been crying and whining on a long roadtrip. I've tuned it out. Satan has the following argument to sit and spin on: If I have been alone this long- what's a little longer? What makes you think anything you say can make me ANY more alone? It's like making something MORE dead. So, sit and whisper denial in my ear til ya turn blue in the face. While I dont LIKE being alone, I am used to it. If God will send someone, they'll (I hope for a she) get here. If they don't- so?
I still gotta work on my 100% belief. It's been trashed so bad.... I can 'believe', but it's about like Monty Python's "And there was much rejoicing." "hooray." All the oomph is gone.
This is how I am, Really!
[edit on 12-9-2009 by wylekat]
[edit on 12-9-2009 by wylekat]
I promise you it won't be easy. It never is. Satan will be whispering in your ear the whole time how you're living a pipe dream, how it never worked before, how silly you look hanging onto hope with no evidence that anything will happen. That's his job; it's what he does. And believe me, he is pretty good at it. He has to be. Because he's lying to you.
Satan can whisper all he wants. It's like this: I have waited for 20 years for someone to be 'dumped on my doorstep' (not literally). I've heard all of the arguments AGAINST me having someone- so now, it's like listening to a kid who's been crying and whining on a long roadtrip. I've tuned it out. Satan has the following argument to sit and spin on: If I have been alone this long- what's a little longer? What makes you think anything you say can make me ANY more alone? It's like making something MORE dead. So, sit and whisper denial in my ear til ya turn blue in the face. While I dont LIKE being alone, I am used to it. If God will send someone, they'll (I hope for a she) get here. If they don't- so?
I still gotta work on my 100% belief. It's been trashed so bad.... I can 'believe', but it's about like Monty Python's "And there was much rejoicing." "hooray." All the oomph is gone.
This is how I am, Really!
[edit on 12-9-2009 by wylekat]
[edit on 12-9-2009 by wylekat]
reply to post by wylekat
Welcome to the club; we all have to work on that. What do you do when your have two small children approaching school age, live in a drug-riddled slum, and are struggling just to survive with a new business?
Believe? In what? Money to fall out of the sky so you can move? That's sort of silly, right?
I was in that situation. I saw no way out, according to the physical realm. But then I got that phone call from a major new client. I finished the first job and got paid, only enough to cover some bills and keep the company running. Then the second job came in, and it was a doosey... it paid exactly enough to cover a used mobile home, a large U-Haul, the set-up, and the utilities to let me move back home to a good school district... two months before school started for my daughter. I didn't actually get to move the business (it was a 60 mile move) until three months later, but I was able to move my family in time.
When the day came to move in the trailer, the movers had informed me that if it rained enough to muddy the field they had to come through, they would have to delay the move, possibly past the time school started. The weather man was calling for rain. I wouldn't hear of it. How arrogant, how idiotic, to refuse to believe the weather forecast and not accept the harsh reality that no one can change the weather! Even some very religious friends of mine thought I had lost my mind. To be honest, I thought I had lost my mind. The morning of the move came with dark overcast skies and reports of rain all around me. It had remained dry for 24 hours since the rain was to start, but it still seemed hopeless. The trailer came up the road, they managed to work it into the still-dry field and brought it in. They set the thing up, removed the wheels, collected their money, and left. One hour later it started to rain cats and dogs. It was months before that field dried up again.
All because I believed.
I didn't make any of that up. It happened. I had every opportunity to duck and run, to accept that things just couldn't happen the way I needed them to. That whisper had become a yell, from the weathermen, from my friends, from my family, from my competitors, from my advisors, even from the local churches. But I would not stop believing. I repeated over and over while I was waiting for that truck, "If God could part the Red Sea for Moses, He can hold off the rain for me." While wondering how I was going to get out of that slum in time, I kept saying, "If God can save Daniel from a furnace, He can save my kids from this school."
He did.
He will for you too.
Only believe.
TheRedneck
I still gotta work on my 100% belief.
Welcome to the club; we all have to work on that. What do you do when your have two small children approaching school age, live in a drug-riddled slum, and are struggling just to survive with a new business?
Believe? In what? Money to fall out of the sky so you can move? That's sort of silly, right?
I was in that situation. I saw no way out, according to the physical realm. But then I got that phone call from a major new client. I finished the first job and got paid, only enough to cover some bills and keep the company running. Then the second job came in, and it was a doosey... it paid exactly enough to cover a used mobile home, a large U-Haul, the set-up, and the utilities to let me move back home to a good school district... two months before school started for my daughter. I didn't actually get to move the business (it was a 60 mile move) until three months later, but I was able to move my family in time.
When the day came to move in the trailer, the movers had informed me that if it rained enough to muddy the field they had to come through, they would have to delay the move, possibly past the time school started. The weather man was calling for rain. I wouldn't hear of it. How arrogant, how idiotic, to refuse to believe the weather forecast and not accept the harsh reality that no one can change the weather! Even some very religious friends of mine thought I had lost my mind. To be honest, I thought I had lost my mind. The morning of the move came with dark overcast skies and reports of rain all around me. It had remained dry for 24 hours since the rain was to start, but it still seemed hopeless. The trailer came up the road, they managed to work it into the still-dry field and brought it in. They set the thing up, removed the wheels, collected their money, and left. One hour later it started to rain cats and dogs. It was months before that field dried up again.
All because I believed.
I didn't make any of that up. It happened. I had every opportunity to duck and run, to accept that things just couldn't happen the way I needed them to. That whisper had become a yell, from the weathermen, from my friends, from my family, from my competitors, from my advisors, even from the local churches. But I would not stop believing. I repeated over and over while I was waiting for that truck, "If God could part the Red Sea for Moses, He can hold off the rain for me." While wondering how I was going to get out of that slum in time, I kept saying, "If God can save Daniel from a furnace, He can save my kids from this school."
He did.
He will for you too.
Only believe.
TheRedneck
reply to post by wylekat
Dude I thought I'd check in to see how you're doing I note with interest your still being bombarded with demons Satan and such.
You do realize you're going to have to make a decision sooner than later of whether you choose to believe that sort of thing, before you go nuts ?
If you decide to dump the belief then it surely must be time to stop bringing the subject into your life, not unlike a reformed alcoholic avoiding the pub .
Whatever, you may fell lonely but your certainly not alone anymore talking in these threads.
So what exactly are you going to do with the rest of your life should the opportunities arise for you to move on from this place ??
Dude I thought I'd check in to see how you're doing I note with interest your still being bombarded with demons Satan and such.
You do realize you're going to have to make a decision sooner than later of whether you choose to believe that sort of thing, before you go nuts ?
If you decide to dump the belief then it surely must be time to stop bringing the subject into your life, not unlike a reformed alcoholic avoiding the pub .
Whatever, you may fell lonely but your certainly not alone anymore talking in these threads.
So what exactly are you going to do with the rest of your life should the opportunities arise for you to move on from this place ??
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