Is this the end?

It is generally accepted among Christians that no one can know the time of Jesus return, but is that a correct interpretation? I suggest that only those who are not followers of Christ do not and cannot know when we are at the end. And therefore, is this idea that we cannot know a simple conspiracy?

Please note, this thread is intended specifically to discuss whether we can or cannot know when the end will occur. It is not intended for non-believers to debate whether or not God is real or the word is fact.

One of the examples given in the Bible to show that people will not know when the time will come is this:

36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. KJV

1st, this implies that we won't know the day and hour. Ok. But that doesn't mean we won't know the time. Above, we see clearly that those in Noah's day didn't know the flood was coming. But those who didn't know and perished were the unbelievers and sinners. Noah and his family did know. Therefore they were prepared and saved. So, I submit: so shall it be in the end.

What did Jesus say?

Mat:15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

This gives us an understanding of the time does it not? Throughout the Bible we see prophesy after prophesy concerning the end. Including time lines. If we are not to know when the end comes, why are these verses included. There are no idle verses correct?

Jesus gave us the parable of the fig tree, which represents Isreal. Isreal became a country in 1947. Can we therefore not use the date line prophesies to determine an estimate of the end times? Jesus advised that this generation ( I take this to mean the generation since Isreal became a country) will not pass away before these things are fullfilled. We are therefore a part of that generation.

That is not unbelievable given the current push for world government, one currency etc etc we see today.

If we are taught that no one knows when the end will come, do we not become lazy about Jesus return? Did He not advise us to watch, to discern the times?

I'll leave it here. I'm curious if others have different interpretations of these verses.

reply to post by JustG

Did He not advise us to watch, to discern the times?

Exactly. We won't know the day but he admonished us to look for the times. Remember, Jesus even scolded the Pharisees of His time for not knowing the signs that surrounded His first coming:

He replied, "When evening comes, you say, 'It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,' and in the morning, 'Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.' You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.

Matthew 16:2-3

Also look into MATTHEW 24 where Jesus gives a list of signs that will precede His return.

The point of all of this is to not set dates but to be able to understand the general time frame of His return. And I do believe we are on the cusp of that.

The seemingly contradicting warnings can be summed up in one final verse:

Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.

Matthew 24:42.

The above verse comes right after Jesus both giving a list of signs of the end of the age as well as His warning that no man knows the day or the hour. This makes it clear what He is trying to get across: Don't worry about the specific day but be aware of the season. He's telling us we will be able to put the pieces together or the time frame.

Also, if you remember, in the days of Noah, the mass majority of people were scoffing at Noah building the ark - laughing and ridiculing him.

And in the days of Lot, the people were drinking, laughing, having a grand old sinning time - and were caught off guard when the fire and brimstone came.

The Bible speaks about the end days being as in the days of Noah and Lot - which is why all the non believers on this forum are actually helping to fulfill a huge part of the end times prophecy. It implies that in the end days people will be going about life with no cares or concerns.

Their questions of 'where's your God' and 'There is no God' and 'The world isn't going to end', etc.

And a biggie - the Bible speaks of the ones that choose to stay asleep to reality - we are witnessing that with our own eyes, especially on ATS.

The Bible gives detailed signs - but so many choose to scoff and ignore. Those are the ones that are going to suffer the worst of God's wrath.

Scary.

1 Thessalonians 5 also suggest we can have an idea but not know the exact time (like down to the day or hour)

"1Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

4But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled."

A good reading site for end days prophecies
is here

And, I have to toss in this huge site of information regarding why it is
crucial to stick to the original King James Bible for the true Word.
You can find that site here

Seems soooo many people are discussing 'new age' and moving into a 'transition' or into 'another level of consciousness' - while yep, we are going to be moving and transitioning and it will certainly be another 'level' of life as we know it, it has nothing to do with 'new age' that Oprah has been spewing.

We agree then.

We cannot know the day or hour. What then would be the week, month or year? And if this is the generation, why do we not hear more about this?

Most recently I watched the following. It's very thought provoking. The timeline seems accurate to me.

Please watch and advise if you see holes in this timeline.
Its somewhat long, but worth the watch.

www.youtube.com...

If not accurate, or if something is missing, why? How should the timelines be interpreted?

reply to post by JustG

I have to agree that we will not know the exact day or hour but the Lord wants us to recognize the times we are living in and to watch and wait for His return.So we can have a general idea that it won't be too long with all of the signs we are seeing in the world coming together all at once . We are living in the last days

I believe we are in the end of days, God wants us to be ready, awake

and watching!!! This is our most important task, as a true believer!!

Here is a sight I came accross, found it very interesting, having to do

with codes in the bible, and end time signs.

www.rapture2009.org...

Originally posted by truth/seeker
I believe we are in the end of days, God wants us to be ready, awake

and watching!!! This is our most important task, as a true believer!!

Here is a sight I came accross, found it very interesting, having to do

with codes in the bible, and end time signs.

www.rapture2009.org...

I noticed that the 1st thing your link does is imply that there will be the rapture and then the tribulation. This would be incorrect and Bible scripture supports that.

For example:

aniel 12 11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


This is just one example. There are many. Please note: In the video I posted, the time line advises that the tribulation period starts 2010.

reply to post by JustG


I believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, there are varying theories on this.

The rapture must take place for the tribulation to start, its the restrainer

keeping the anti-christ from coming on the seen.

Originally posted by truth/seeker
reply to post by JustG

 

I believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, there are varying theories on this.

The rapture must take place for the tribulation to start, its the restrainer

keeping the anti-christ from coming on the seen.

I know it would be nice to believe that the rapture comes 1st. But just because we want something to be true doesn't mean it is.

Can you provide back-up Biblically please. If this is true, it must have biblical reference. Also, how do you explain the verse I quoted for you above?

[edit on 22-8-2009 by JustG]

Most theologists will claim that armageden most occur first. I think the end times is upon us though. The visions of armagedon are taken from the vantage point of the vision holder from the spirit realm. But like stated in Matthew everyone will be carrying out their lives like normal oblivious, and under deception of the "devil." I see all the signs playing out now. I agree this is the end of times, and the beginning of the new.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty


And, I have to toss in this huge site of information regarding why it is
crucial to stick to the original King James Bible for the true Word.
You can find that site here

I'd rather use a version based off of the original greek

reply to post by JustG


Mathew Ch 24 makes it quite clear that the rapture will be post trib. I was acutally going to start a new thread to discuss this, but if the OP doesn't mind we can discuss it here.

Mat 24:29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [Treasury of Scripture Knowledge] [Concordance and Hebrew/Greek Lexicon] [List Audio, Study Tools, Commentaries] [Hymns] [Versions / Translations] [Dictionary Aids] [Select for Copy; Double click to (de-)select all] Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

[
Notice it says Immediately after the tribulation...they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds
No doubt in my mind that it is post tribulation.

We may not know the hour or the day but I think we will know with in a 3 month time frame IMHO. 5 of the 7 trumpets have already sounded. the 6th trumpet which starts the 7 year period is predicted to sound either Oct. or Dec. of this year.
Need proof that 5 of the 7 trumpets have already sounded? I highly recommend you watch them all.

[edit on 23-8-2009 by calstorm]

reply to post by AshleyD

The point of all of this is to not set dates but to be able to understand the general time frame of His return. And I do believe we are on the cusp of that.

Hasn't just about every generation since the death of Christ believed that they were in the end times and were on the cusp of his return?

I agree that things are lousy out there, but I think that every generation feels that way. I am not dismissing your opinion here, just bringing it up.

Originally posted by Karlhungis

Hasn't just about every generation since the death of Christ believed that they were in the end times and were on the cusp of his return?

Yuppers.

Especially when those Christians live in a country that is being subjected to communist/socialist takeover.

They always think the takeover signals the rapture - they are always wrong.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by AshleyD

 

The point of all of this is to not set dates but to be able to understand the general time frame of His return. And I do believe we are on the cusp of that.

Hasn't just about every generation since the death of Christ believed that they were in the end times and were on the cusp of his return?

I agree that things are lousy out there, but I think that every generation feels that way. I am not dismissing your opinion here, just bringing it up.

This may be the first generation that has the actual date of the reinstatement of the state of Israel as a beginning point for counting the days to the end times. It is unlike any previous generation.

reply to post by calstorm

The second coming of Jesus in your example is when He brings those with Him who are already resurrected in the pre-trib resurrection. There are two. Hence, we will all be changed in a twinkling of an eye, and the dead shall be raised first.

Originally posted by Jim Scott
It is unlike any previous generation.

So is every generation ....

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by Jim Scott
It is unlike any previous generation.

So is every generation ....

This is the first historical event of any generation, therefore no prior generation can attach the meaning. Israel only had one start date in 1948. The start date of Israel was precisely foretold in the Bible www.1260-1290-days-bible-prophecy.org...

If we consider the importance of that prophecy, we are the only qualified generation.