Missing ship may have secret cargo

Oh so now it's bio weapons. So Russians are so dumb that they load bio weapon delivery systems on a vessel, then risk inspection by Finnish customs??? I don't buy that for a second.

reply to post by PsykoOps

I think that is what we have seen most on this case, people assuming that one side is being very clever and the other very dumb, whatever those sides may be, and I doubt that in an operation like this there was any dumb side, just one side that could not reach its goal.

Or maybe both sides did reach their goals, we do not even know that.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Oh so now it's bio weapons. So Russians are so dumb that they load bio weapon delivery systems on a vessel, then risk inspection by Finnish customs??? I don't buy that for a second.

It seems you are putting too much belief in the customs. Everyone likes to believe that their goverment and state authorities work in the best intrest of the people and stay honest while doing that. I dont believe that finnish customs are immune to payoffs or higher goverment level political machinations. If the customs get a order to not conduct thorough inspection on some particular vessel, it wont be done. It happens everywhere and even the reasons wont have to be that "sensitive".

Every goverment in Baltics and Scandinavia has its own political intrests in this Arctic Sea issue - it might be a plan to discredit Russia, by allowing the weapons over borders, then taking control over the vessel and exposing the cargo;
It might be all staged by Russia to have its warships patrolling the upcoming important Nord Stream gas line which runs through Baltic Sea. Huge amounts of money and important political deals are at stake. How easy would it be for them to say now "Look, you have pirates on the Baltic Sea and you all failed to take action against them. We dont trust you and therefore we take the protection of our state intrest (pipeline) in our hands". Gazprom, as the owner of the project, got the premission to build a corporate army to protect the pipeline months ago. The premission was given by Duma (Russian parliament) and these forces are being trained and put together.

It could be anything and thats why we need to post, collect and analyse every piece of availabe infomation to get at least some objective picture out of this. Your moaning is not helpful.

Here's another idea. The men who have been presented as the alleged hijackers are in fact recent plants. One of them was reported by his brother to have recently gotten a job in Spain. Could these guys have been recruited as stand-ins or dupes to play a role?

They certainly seemed to have had little time to get their story developed - the one about being ecologists from some unknown private company. Give me a break. Oh yeah, and what happened to the black "police" outfits they supposedly were wearing? Did they also bring a change of clothes with them when they boarded? Yeah right!

Who were the original guys who boarded the ship? Did they exist at all? Is it any wonder the crew is being held as possible suspects? Perhaps there never was a pirate attack at all and that whole scenario was made up by the crew who themselves had plans for the "cargo", or at least for some sort of ransom.

Interesting detail is that image analysis points that Arctic Sea were floating deeper than even wet timber weight can cause. Study claims that Arctic Sea had something much heavier cargo than timber. Maybe Finnish Super weight pine?

/heavyvessel


[edit on 27-8-2009 by northwoods]

reply to post by northwoods

When and where did they got the photos for the analysis?

reply to post by h3lios


Well excuse my moaning. You suppose 'they' control also the dock crew who loaded the ship or were they just gambling to see if noone notices the gargo?

Originally posted by PsykoOps
reply to post by h3lios

 

Well excuse my moaning. You suppose 'they' control also the dock crew who loaded the ship or were they just gambling to see if noone notices the gargo?

For some time the ship was docked in Kalingrad, where it had some welding done. All we know about it is that they describe it briefly as "repairs".

(telegraph.c o.uk)Before collecting a cargo of sawn timber from the Finnish port of Pietarsaari, the Arctic Sea had been repaired at the Pregol shipyard in Kaliningrad, a Russian enclave notorious for smuggling.

Double cargo hold would be the logical conclusion - empty "pockets" below the main cargo hold. When reaching the destination, all they need to do is unload the wood, sign the papers and cut the floor open.

So the loading crew wouldn't notice that? That ship is a monthly visitor to the docks and even the dock master said that he was very familiar with it. Also customs said that there was no visible repairs or recent painting on the ship. If there was some hidden stuff done then it had to be small scale or someone would've noticed it.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
So the loading crew wouldn't notice that? That ship is a monthly visitor to the docks and even the dock master said that he was very familiar with it. Also customs said that there was no visible repairs or recent painting on the ship. If there was some hidden stuff done then it had to be small scale or someone would've noticed it.

Well, it depends who exactly did the job and what was the purpose. If it was a standard repair, done by some ordinary company on the field, the repairs would obviously be seen - as you said, fresh paint and visible reconstructions. In other case, if the purpose was to make changes without anyone noticing, they would have used more experienced workers in soldering who know a bit more than "weld part A to part B and brush up the rough edge". Keep in mind that cutting the floor open does'nt mean taking the ship apart and re-painting it. The cutting area may vary from a 6m X 1m to just 1-2m X 1m strip, depending the length of the missile (in one piece or taken apart).
Anyway, for such operations I doubt that they would use some random company to do the job. Most likely people would be their own engineers and workers brought to the site.

Until we get hold of the ship plans and more information about the missiles that the russians use, we are just speculating. We dont know where these pockets are located, are they accessible in the cargo hold and how big they are.

But what Im trying to say is that such cargo ships have "pockets" between inner and outer hull and hiding the metal cut marks isnt really that hard, its all about experience, good tools and knowledge in chemistry.

Missile theory is just one of many at the moment, lets wait and see what tomorrow brings

reply to post by northwoods


Hey, that was a good find. I would like to hear more about the study/discovery of the Arctic Sea sitting lower due to load. The displacement I guess it would be.

I just wanna say every person has their price, and for many of the People mentioned above it could literally to let guy xyz takeover for a few hours, or even a shift.

With the possible magnitude of this I know it would be possible to send "guys" in with proper dock paperwork/credentials/ID, and skills to load cargo x into the ship, and have it set sale.

As for why no customs discovered anything? No telling. Again just speculating, but either they could have been bought, or their boss. Possibly higher ups waived the Arctic Sea through as being all good. Not everything gets searched.

I think the ship displacing more water is significant.

Originally posted by sanchoearlyjones
I think the ship displacing more water is significant.

If true.

As I said before, where did they got the photos of the ship? As far as we know there is only this person saying that "several European countries" made these measurements on unknown photos from a ship that nobody saw.

reply to post by h3lios


Yeah I doubt there was any amateur work done on the ship unless it was the mob who was behind this. Makes you wonder if there was such changes done to the ship and then it was boarded by some special forces then how did they know about the gargo? Maybe one of the welders snitched on them or something.

The 8 hijackers have been officially charged with piracy and kidnapping.

Source

Missiles was on board the Arctic Sea, according to "a high level source", who blames the mafia...



Pirated ship 'had missile cargo'

A DEADLY cargo of Russian missiles WAS on board the tanker sailed through the English Channel by pirates, a top Moscow naval source said today.

[---]

The high level source — who spoke to a Russian newspaper — said: "Such weapons can be hidden."

He denied that it was a smuggling operation with Russian state approval as alleged by Kremlin critics in Moscow and blamed weapons traffickers.

He continued: "Our secret services do not perform such convoluted operations. I think it was the arms mafia.

[---]

The source was reported to hold the rank of captain and to have been co-ordinating ships involved in the Russian naval operation to seize back the Arctic Sea from its hijackers.

Hey yall check this out....

Perhaps you've heard or read about the Maltese-flagged freighter named Arctic Sea, which recently disappeared in the Atlantic Ocean and was subsequently recovered after various contradictory reports. According to Filin, the Arctic Sea had been loaded with four X-55 cruise missiles while docked at the Baltic Sea port of Kaliningrad. The missiles were without warheads, as the warheads were shipped separately on another vessel . Filin alleges that the warheads were customized for carrying Soviet-produced biochemical material previously "shipped to Iran from Russia by air."

www.financialsense.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This might be interesting. One of the "hijackers" were seeking a job on the internet. And he called his wife when the Arctic Sea was being followed by a Russian warship.


Google translated article (Latvian -> English) :

Latvian 'pirates' wife tells of his men!

Gunta only knows to tell that man to seek employment through the Internet.

[---]

and he most likely went to a rented bus to a new job, but to where they went, what work they was proposed and what the routes by sea, they needed to go, I really do not know. "

The only contact she had with her husband liktenīgajā Monday morning - 17. August, when the cargo ship has followed the Russian military's warship and about to "Arctic Sea" detention. " "I can say only one - it was not a telephone call from Dmitri. Perhaps he rang me from the ship's telephone, and his voice was very excited. The conversation was very brief. Dmitriy said that they do not know what will be their further fate of the ship some miles away following a Russian warship and obviously now I will follow the attack.

There's some more here in english:


Newspaper reveals more information about alleged hijackers of Arctic Sea from Latvia

The Security Police press secretary Kristine Apse-Krumina told Latvijas Avize that for the present Security Police did not possess convincing and documented evidence to certify to the facts that the two Latvian residents had participated in the hijacking.

reply to post by ArMaP


This whole thing "feels" like a Fox Noise article... Tons of tidbits with NOTHING supporting them...

That being said, its as though We are being selectively fed what to believe, or fed information to draw conclusions later at some 'final' point. Donno.

Originally posted by sanchoearlyjones
reply to post by ArMaP

 

This whole thing "feels" like a Fox Noise article... Tons of tidbits with NOTHING supporting them...
That being said, its as though We are being selectively fed what to believe, or fed information to draw conclusions later at some 'final' point. Donno.

"Hi, and welcome back tooooooo........ The Foxy News Arctic Sea update show!
Today, a "high level source" has exclusively revealed that a "trusted insider" has indicated that there may, or may not have been, at some point, Weapons of Madd Destruction! In close proximity to a dockyard where the Arctonic Sea, a Finnished fraytor, flying under a Russian Flag out of Malteser, once sailed past.
We can confirm that these WMD's may, or may not have contained radioactive materials, and that there may or may not have been warheads attached to any missiles which may or may not have been on board. Crew members have now been released, into the safe custody of a Russian jail cell, this may or may not be for their own protection. And all of the Estonian / Latvian hijackers, or "Jobseekers" are they are alternatively known, have now been given plenty work to do, in a nice friendly labour camp, although this of course has not been confirmed.
The Finnish owned, Maltese registered vessel, carrying Finnish Timber to Algeria, has of course now been taken to a Russian Naval Base (with brand new weapons storage facilities) because..... they need the Timber to finish the construction works there.
So, everything is looking good, there's nothing to see here, and I'll hand you back to the weatherman in your area...
This has been a Foxy News Update..."