12 Ways Humans Are NOT Primates - Lloyd Pye

Originally posted by InfaRedManSurely that allows enough time for a certain amount of mutations in our genetic makeup that would distinguish us as being different to apes.

So basically you are saying mankind is a bunch of mutants?

Originally posted by BaronVonGodzilla
You have got to be joking, ChemBreather.

Many people have tried to explain it to you but you ignore all their evidence and just make up something that has nothing to do with the situation. Man to bear to whale to pig? Who said that? Is that how you think it works?

That is absolutaly Not how I think it works at all..
You are the ones trying to say to me the species on earth randomly evolve into to ANOTHER specie , and I think firstly that is impossible, one animal just dont become into another..

The last explanation I heard from an Evo-man, was that whales was bears that lost his arms and legs , uhmm. Yea.

second: I am not ignoring the evidence, I just dont think it is evidence of what you are trying to say..

Originally posted by john124

Originally posted by ChemBreather
reply to post by JScytale

 

Drawings ? I was expecting some visible undenialbe proof.. Tomorrow I draw You some pictures of how it is, and it is common knowledge and widly accepted among experts all over..

That was sacrasm, dont look so smart ? only shows I follow the common belief, you seriously dont have to convinve me of any thing.

Until some one shows me a polaroid of this animals, or fossils that without any doubt is not contaminated by its surroundings and accepted be experts on both sides of the fence, I will not waste my time on it..

If a seal is on land for 30 million years, what kind of animal will he be ?
im thinking he will die and Not evolve into any thing other than dirt.._D

Oh dear, you want spoon-feeding information. No wonder you are so clueless! You have much to learn, start by reading an introductary book on fossil records and how this DOES constitute to evidence of evolution.

No, I dont want spoon-feeding information, I dont like getting spoon-fed a cooked up nonsense theory of how You and I came from a monkey that is still playing with bananas in the Jungle.

Fossil records ? you are joking right ? how about those 7000 'fossils' in iraq explaining where we came from, ever accure to you that those 'fossils' are the missing link ?? nah, cause then you must open your mind slightly.

Mmmm, animals adapt, I never said any thing on that, it is the Human - Ape issue that I dont believe in , or the Giant leaps of One animal turning to another...When some one say to me: Hey, did you know my cat gave birth to an elephant baby...I'd laff and alff..I'd also like to see fossil records of than 200 million year process..

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by InfaRedManSurely that allows enough time for a certain amount of mutations in our genetic makeup that would distinguish us as being different to apes.

So basically you are saying mankind is a bunch of mutants?

Yea, sweet stuff..

Like pye say: Animals do not allow defects to live, just have animals are, they kill their babies if they are defected, maybe apes aint that smart and we became hairless apes with computers etc...

Originally posted by zorgon
So basically you are saying mankind is a bunch of mutants?

No ... Just us ATSers!

IRM

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by zorgon
So basically you are saying mankind is a bunch of mutants?

No ... Just us ATSers!

IRM

Haha..Funny ..

What's your spin this from the top of your head ?

Okey, I found this Google Vid with Lloyd Pye, and it is 2 hours long.
Instead laughing of him of by a 4 minute clip taken from one lecture, this is 2 hours where he explains, without any stupid talk..
And if you were to watch it, he also explains how the Brainwashing on this subject is played out . All Good ..

Google Video Link

Google Source
Lloyd Pye is an author, researcher, and lecturer in the field of alternative knowledge. He calls on over 30 years of experience to write and speak about the origins of life, human origins, Hominoids (bigfoot, sasquatch, yeti, and others), and the work of Zechara Sitchin. This broad base of knowledge makes him one of the world's leading proponents of the Intervention Theory of origins, which stands in sharp contrast to Darwinism, Creationism, and Intelligent Design. His classic book about these subjects, Everything You Know Is Wrong -- Origins of Life and Humans, has been fully revised and updated as of July, 2007, and will be available from bookstores or directly from www.BellLapBooks.com. More information about Lloyd and his books can be found at www.LloydPye.com

reply to post by ChemBreather


Yes you ARE ignoring the evidence. I'm sorry, I've been a lurker on this forum for years and I very rarely post however reading this thread has just been making me more and more frustrated at the sheer ignorance perpetuated by yourself regarding evolution. It is obvious that you don't know really anything about evolution other than some vague statements such as 'Species turn into other species' and 'Man came from apes', which you have simply heard at some time or another and taken as being firm examples of what evolution is and have thereupon recoiled with disgust at the seeming absurdity of the notions and have therefore concluded that evolution must be nonsense.
Firstly let's get our terminology right, we're not talking about evolution; we're talking about Darwin's theory of evolution due to natural selection. 'Evolution' basically just describes a process of adaptive change over time, this can be applied to speciation, or it can be applied to inorganic, natural processes that change over time. You do agree that things change over time and thus evolve, don't you?

Natural selection is basically a process where organisms that are best adapted to their environment are more likely to survive and therefore pass on their traits to successive generations, thus over time certain traits that are best adapted to the surroundings are 'selected' and ones that are not are weeded out. There is nothing magical or absurd about that, it is a highly logical, rational and sensible notion. Now if this process is occurring in nature, then it would explain why all species appear to be so well adapted to their particular niche/environment, wouldn't it?

Now if you concede that organisms that possess the traits that make them more adapted to their environment and thus more likely to survive and therefore reproduce, will insodoing pass those very traits to their offspring, whose surviving offspring will then pass those traits (and any others that aided in their survival) to their offspring, can you see how the successive reproduction of generations would act to genetically refine or 'select' traits that are ever more adapted to the organisms niche or environment? If you can see this, then you appreciate natural selection.

Now, if you can appreciate that this process is indeed at work (which doesn't really require any leaps of faith or imagination), all you need to do now is to throw in vast amounts of time and dramatically changing environments into the equation. And voila; you get Speciation, that is the formation of different species from common ancestors, or in your terms: 'evolution'.

IF successive generations of organisms are being increasingly refined genetically to adapt to their environment due to natural selection then all you require are enormous amounts of time after which small cumulative refinements per generation would easily account for massive physiological changes (which is an area you seem to be having trouble getting over the seeming absurdity of). Now if you allow massive environmental changes into the mix, it doesn't really require a miracle to see how one species can over time 'evolve' into another.
Changing climates can force rather rapid and significant adaptive changes, if there is a large sudden change of climate that may very well kill 99% of a species, the 1% remaining just happened to have a genetic mutation that made them more adapted to the new environment, perhaps it allowed a fish to obtain oxygen from air for example. If given enough time, for example millions and millions of years, then the potential for adaptive change becomes practically endless, anything that could happen, does, many times over. In this realm of vast expanses of time, dynamic climate and a race for survival and propagation, diversity is limitless, and the explosive outpouring of form is nothing but a natural consequence

reply to post by JScytale


I didn't mean "rain" by "weather", I meant mostly temperature, climate hostility, call it whatever you like. Please bear with my scarce english, I'm not a mothertongue.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by InfaRedManSurely that allows enough time for a certain amount of mutations in our genetic makeup that would distinguish us as being different to apes.

So basically you are saying mankind is a bunch of mutants?

ok, look. in a way, every single living thing on the face of the planet is a very highly "mutated" form of the original single-celled life form, but that really isn't a very good way of looking at it because it is so simplistic.

Originally posted by ChemBreather
That is absolutaly Not how I think it works at all..

You are the ones trying to say to me the species on earth randomly evolve into to ANOTHER specie , and I think firstly that is impossible, one animal just dont become into another..

The last explanation I heard from an Evo-man, was that whales was bears that lost his arms and legs , uhmm. Yea.

second: I am not ignoring the evidence, I just dont think it is evidence of what you are trying to say..

Species do NOT randomly evolve. Whales did NOT lose their arms and legs - they are STILL THERE. That is why evolution is so blatantly obvious. Whale flippers are legs. Their skeletons are almost completely identical to a land animals legs - they even have toes. They just have flesh that grew slightly differently to form a flipper.

I'm aware that AltruisticNarcissist did an excellent job explaining evolution, but I'm going to try to do the same in the absolute most simple terms I can think of so that maybe you two can wrap your heads around a scientific theory that is as well supported as the theory of gravity.

EVOLUTION FOR DUMMIES AND/OR CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISTS
First off, nature is really, really harsh. Pretty much no animals ever die of old age. Everything gets eaten, dies of starvation, freezing to death, etc. Most animals will die as youngsters because that is when they are easiest to catch. In some species, only like one out of fifty or even a hundred babies will ever grow up to be teenagers.

Second off, I'm sure you know everyone is unique. Every animal on the planet is a combination of his parents, and has a unique set of features that has never existed before. Sometimes mistakes happen when his parents are mushed together to make him. Usually they're bad, but sometimes they aren't so bad. Scientific studies showed that seven times out of ten, mistakes are really bad for you. three times out of ten, they don't really matter, and sometimes they are actually pretty good. One example of a good random mutation is some lucky humans who are missing a pair of genes in their DNA because it got left out when they were conceived. Lucky for them, this makes them almost immune to AIDS because their bodies forget to do something that AIDS uses to take over their cells.

So, you know almost every animal in the world is going to be killed or die young, and that every animal is unique. Now you can think about this in more detail! Let's say a group of wolves is living in the ice age and its really, really cold. Some wolves aren't as hairy as others, right? They're all different animals. The wolves who were lucky and were really hairy aren't going to feel as cold as their unluckier buddies, and won't freeze to death as easily! Because of that they will get to grow up and have kids, who will all be hairier too if their mom was kind of like dad! If she wasn't, but was just a lucky wolf without really thick hair, then about half of them will be hairy like daddy. Its still an ice age though, so in their generation the hairy guys will be a lot more likely to make it too, and have kids again. By the time the ice age is ending, pretty much all the wolves left will be hairy little buggers, and will probably have to actually move north to stay cool!

Sometimes mean animals decide they wanted to eat the wolves. Usually they stuck together and kept each other safe, so the friendly wolves didn't get eaten so often. The wolves who liked to be alone weren't so lucky though, because the mean animals would find them and eat them. After a while, only the wolves who liked to be around their buddies all the time really survived and had kids. But then again, sometimes those big meanies would get brave and attack the wolves when they were in small groups anyways! They would see them walking through the snow and would be so hungry they wouldn't care about maybe getting eaten themselves, so they'd go in and kill some wolves and then get chased away! Well, some lucky wolves happened to have white hair and weren't really easy to see in the snow. The mean animals would see their unlucky brown or red or whatever color friends first and would go for them right away, so they were usually the ones who didn't make it.

Now, some people think that all this makes sense but then how do you explains stuff like wings and flippers that are useless unless they suddenly appear, which would never happen by random mutations. That makes sense, but the really cool part is nothing ever suddenly appears, and everything always has a purpose! Lets look at wings. You don't need to have full fledged wings to be useful! Even something as silly as just having a little extra dangly skin on your arms can be good for you. Just look at those flying squirrels! Some of us people have examples like that. A lot of professional swimmers were lucky enough to be born with extra skin between the bottoms of their fingers! They noticed that they could push the water better than most people and could swim faster too, and some of em decided to do it for a living because they were so darn good at it!

For a really basic example, lets look at bacteria. Some of them have these little hairs that grow out of their sides that let them move! But those hairs are super complex, they couldn't possibly have just showed up one day because of a mistake. Well, they didn't! If you take away almost all of the parts of the hairs, you're just left with these little stubs in their "skin". They should be useless, right? Well, they aren't. They happen to be these little things that bacterias use to inject their proteins into other cells to take over them! They are things a lot of bacteria have, like eyes on us bigger animals, so it makes sense they have them. then these little stubs slowly grew bigger, so it was easier to use them on cells with thicker "skin". As a side effect they also noticed it made em more stable and a little faster when they swam around! wow! they started getting even bigger, and more flexible, until they couldn't even be used for their original purpose anymore and instead were complicated little leg or paddle like hairs that these little guys used to get around instead of the old way!

[edit on 30-7-2009 by JScytale]

Omniskeptic linked a good video of Ken Miller explaining the relationship between humans and other primates. Here is the full speech - one hour presentation followed by one hour of questions (which is skippable)



My personal favorite explanations for evolution come from Richard Dawkins who is a truly brilliant evolutionary biologist. I would highly recommend that you watch these two episodes. Roughly 1 hour and 30 mins together. The complete series is top notch.

Google Video Link

Google Video Link

Please watch these if you don't understand evolutionary theory (which both zorgon and chembreather do not).

Clearmy the majority on this thread know nothing about evolution....

We were all apes untill our moms cut of our tails!!

In all seriousness, a recent study has shown that there were multiple types of

"homo's" most of them didn't make it, but our spesific type survived. If

the other "homo's" or homies survived we might not have been here.

[edit on 30-7-2009 by halfmanhalfamazing]

Originally posted by halfmanhalfamazing
the other "homo's" or homies

survived we might not have been here.

Not necessarily mate. Studies have shown that Neanderthal (for instance) walked the Earth at the same time as modern humans. Recent finds have also suggested the possibility that modern humans feasted on poor old Neanderthal in times of hardship. Other studies suggest Neanderthal couldn't compete with us and eventually died out.

Early Human Dined On Young Neanderthal

Did Modern Humans Eat Neanderthals?

From what I've heard... they tasted like chicken!

IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan


that doesn't contradict his point (and i brought this up on the last page)

at one point in our history there were several competing hominids. all of them had trouble competing with us, and then the toba catastrophe ocurred. a supervolcano erupted and wreaked havoc on the world's environment. every single other hominid that existed before this died except for us and neanderthals. humanity was actually reduced to 5,000-10,000 people worldwide... which is a scary thought. we were literally a hair away from going extinct. we recovered, and proceeded to continue outcompeting neanderthals until they too went extinct.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by halfmanhalfamazing
the other "homo's" or homies

survived we might not have been here.

Recent finds have also suggested the possibility that modern humans feasted on poor old Neanderthal in times of hardship.

From what I've heard... they tasted like chicken!

IRM

WHAT

Thats awesome!!

I love chicken!

Thanks

I've read the explanations of the evolution theory by our illustrious (and better than the rest of us, of course) colleagues, and I have to say: it's nothing I didn't know. And I'm sure Chembreather, Zorgon et al. knew that before as well.

We are not convinced about the theory OK? This has nothing to do with ignorance of the facts. Don't call us "ignorants" just because we have different views. Pretty please with sugar on top.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Down Syndrome people are born with an extra copy of a chromosome (21). Does that make them not human? They have 47 instead of 46.

The common ancestor humans share with apes is millions of years old. Surely that allows enough time for a certain amount of mutations in our genetic makeup that would distinguish us as being different to apes.

IRM

[edit on 29/7/09 by InfaRedMan]

I hear you and I've thought about that myself, but then why is evolution only a theory and not a fact (like most things in the Sciences)?

I believe in evolution to an extent, but there are things pertaining to our origins that just don't exactly check out.

It's definitely possible, IMHO, that something higher than us on the food chain exists - and could have tampered with the Neanderthal or the Homonid's genes. Homo Sapiens did have quite a few predecessors. And like another poster said, WE'RE messing with animals genes! ( en.wikipedia.org... ). We created the GloFish by hacking DNA.

Alot of people really think that humans are the most intelligent species in existence at the moment. I suspect that to be very incorrect.

Hey - no offense to us, but if we ARE indeed the most intelligent species (in the universe - assuming that ET doesn't exist), then the universe sure has a sense of humor...

reply to post by theufologist


you do realize the theory is as well supported as the theory of gravity, right? or as the theory that the earth revolves around the sun? what do you call a person who believes that the sun revolves around the earth?

Originally posted by impaired
I hear you and I've thought about that myself, but then why is evolution only a theory and not a fact (like most things in the Sciences)?

this has been covered before, but -

EVERYTHING in science is a theory.
A scientific theory has a different meaning than the word "theory". In science, conjecture (common use of the word theory) is called a hypothesis. A scientific theory is a set of conclusions based on large quantities of empirical evidence that can be tested easily, has been tested repeatedly, and continues to hold true.

Gravity is not a "fact". It is known as the Theory of Gravity.

Originally posted by JScytale
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

humanity was actually reduced to 5,000-10,000 people worldwide... which is a scary thought. we were literally a hair away from going extinct. we recovered, and proceeded to continue outcompeting neanderthals until they too went extinct.

Are we talking a regular hair.. like one off the top of our heads or are we talking pube thickness?

I'm not trying to split hairs :shk: Just wondering how close we really were.

IRM