Crop Circle - New one is a beauty! 24th July 2009

reply to post by DGFenrir

They probably do it for fun if they don't get paid.

Use of the word PROBABLY means you're guessing.

They probably laught their behinds of while reading the discussions about their crop circles.

Use of the word PROBABLY means you're making a guess.

The farmers often ask money from the visitors for entering the circle.

Use of the word OFTEN implies that there are facts to back up your statement of money being accepted ... is that so ?

There are also many flights organised over the circle. Perhaps the circlemakers get their % of the earnings too.

Use of the word PERHAPS means you're making a guess.

reply to post by SpaceSilence


LOL, that source is a major JOKE. There is ZERO real science in any part of the web page.

It actually claimed that the CIA made people confess to making the crop circles.

Then they claim that a crop circle made a jet pilot eject his aircraft!


All of the supposed "microwave" claims have already been debunked along with all magnetic claims. ALL of them have been debunked, you just have to RESEARCH MORE.

Most of it is either exaggerated claims, false research, and failure to acknowledge natural and other man-made explanations.

All the microwave stuff they claim to have found is a giant HOAX. It all started when some fake scientist put crops in a microwave and noticed that it made nodes of crops lengthen. They didn't research how lengthened nodes can naturally happen, especially after they have been bent and broken internally from being bent. That's what nodes do.. then lengthen and bend, that is why they exist.

The "radiation" they found is NATURALY found in soil. It also is VERY common to get radiation contamination in the water systems of farms, because of the natural radiation in the soil.

Everything has a valid explanation, except the so called "researchers" stopped "researching". The moment you conclude it is some military weapon, or some aliens, is the minute you stopped researching.

Face it, most crop circles are man made with simple technology. Not some aliens or military weapons... that's just dumb.

Some of you need to learn more about science on your own, instead of buying the fake b.s.


[edit on 27-7-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Am I the only one who's really stopped caring whether or not crop circles are man-made or not when they have this kind of artistic vision?

I mean this formation is gorgeous no matter who made it, there's no knowing for sure what it means if it IS alien created so I say sit back and admire it.

Meanwhile, on the otherside of the fence, the circle makers show remarkable ingenuity with the weave of the crop...Doug and Dave certainly could not do that. The swirl, and the overlaying of the crop without actually killing it, is indeed a good puzzle. As for the effects experienced inside so-called genuine circles, electrical disruption, biophysical effects upon the researchers, etc, if proven to be true, point to the use of a technology not in the mainstream consciousness.

My issue with crop circles is not simply to whom authorship should be attributed, but to why the circles are made in the first place? There is something of a unequal balance in the debate, but nevetheless, I still remain open to convincing from my current stance of the circles being made by man. If, they are man-made, a simple demonstration of creating one of the complex and giant agriglyphs by the human circle makers would put the whole debate to rest, but they don't, won't do this...which of course raises questions on the authenticity of their claims.

If, however, the circle makers are non-human, then as a human, I could think of better ways to communicate than to disfigure food crops. It is a interesting debate, but a redundant one, because neither side is moving forward.

Originally posted by elysiumfire
If, they are man-made, a simple demonstration of creating one of the complex and giant agriglyphs by the human circle makers would put the whole debate to rest, but they don't, won't do this...which of course raises questions on the authenticity of their claims.

Yeah right! That has been done already. The made a video showing the making of a complex circle on News Of The World.

But no matter what evidence you show the croppies, they are not satisified. The only other explaination is that the croppies are brainwashed to perminetly think aliens and advanced technology are at play.

Circlemaker make formation for News Of The World



...however in the video they use the old wood plank method. They have already created multiple new methods to make it faster, by using rollers with some weight. It rolls the crops over instead of bends them, and its twice as fast.

[edit on 27-7-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by jfj123

 

They used the method I am talking about, only slower, with sound.

www.newscientist.com...

Also that last point was not directed at you.


But still, you're beginning to sound a bit arrogant and child-like. I have proven it many times, but you know, the funny thing about debate and conversation is that you, side B, have to respond. you know? Saying prove it over and over again does not invalidate what I've told you. If you would enjoy saying how I'm wrong, that would be great.

My logic is still sound, and you simple say "nope", as if by your voice, it is automatically wrong. Well. Why?

You know this isn't an actual black hole right? If this is what you're planning on creating, you must be a super genius because the other genius' are still trying to make it work

And researchers still have a way to go before they can detect Hawking radiation in acoustic black holes. Steinhauer's team, for example, estimates that the boost in velocity that atoms get in their setup must be about 10 times bigger in order to create detectable Hawking radiation in the form of phonons.

So how are you planning on boosting the velocity?
Who's equipment are you going to borrow?
Which team of scientists are you going to put together to build on the other scientists work?

Originally posted by Wally Hope

Where is the vid showing more than just a crude attempt at making a crop circle? Where do they show you how they do the swirling, and other anomalies such as the plants showing signs of heating from the inside (blown nodes). Or how they get the plants to bend at the node without breaking or damaging the plant, or breaking the seed pods?

Actually these things have been addressed previously in this thread, mostly by Soylent Green Is People. I'm not sure which pages though. Sorry

Do you think all that stuff is just being made up, because yes real researchers have studied crop circles?

I've seen a number of tv programs on crop circles and the "researchers" were just pseudo-science wannabe's so I wasn't sure if any REAL scientists had ever looked into it before. Most scientists don't want to be associated with stuff like this.

Seriously,have you gotten off of the donkey and gone and gotten a roller and tried to mash plants over?I know what happens.Why?Because I have.I'll tell you because you won't.It mashes plants unevenly.The ones at the bottom are damaged and the ones that are not spring back up.To get all the plants to stay bent over you have to go over repeatedly.Or you put in more weight,which is water.Like 5 gallons or so per adjustment of ballast.Not dirt.Then the issue of entanglement,which is the biggest cause of both sloppiness but also there are lots of stems which get caught up and wrapped around the protruding axle ends.This tool is not designed for this purpose,rather for landscape work where the plants are mown or seeds,not full sized growth.This must be cleared fairly regularly,and this is a big hand full of plant matter,impossible to overlook by any serious researcher.So is this removed?It looks like hell compared to the pictures of these genuinc CC's.A roller is only an acceptable alternative if you are merely taking someone's word for it and not actually experienced.In reality,another bit of braggadocio by the people whose claim is to deceive.Anyone who claims to be making these increasingly complex patterns with a ratty old plank or roller is having a laugh over the gullibility of those who buy it.

[edit on 27-7-2009 by trueforger]

reply to post by jfj123


You do realize that the one guy is DEAD right? Last time i checked dead people don't make circles. Died about 14 years ago.

reply to post by ALLis0NE


You can present your argument, but overstating facts does not make things so. The following scientific findings have been found in crop circles and NOT debunked. If you find this information false, please provide the studies by actual scientists, not cropcirclemakers.org please. They are nothing more than a childish copycat business.

NODE LENGTHENING

The stems of corn-type plants are characterised by little ‘knuckles', at several positions along the stems (see Figure 1). These nodes act as a kind of ligament. They allow the plants to bend towards the light, even after they have grown to their full length.

In the early 1990s, the American biophysicist William Levengood discovered that plants inside crop circles often had much longer nodes than those in the undisturbed, surrounding crop. This effect is illustrated in Figure 2.

Although there are known biological effects that can create node lengthening, these could be easily ruled out. It was clear that something else had happened. The effect could be simulated by placing normal, healthy stems inside a microwave oven. The heat induced by the microwaves made the liquids inside the nodes expand, just like the mercury inside a thermometer. This caused the nodes to increase in length, while the amount of lengthening increased proportionally to the amount of microwave energy that was generated.

This finding led to the conclusion that the node lengthening effect may be caused by the involvement of heat, possibly caused by microwave radiation. In fact, traces of heat have been found innumerable times in crop circles all over the world, such as dehydrated plants, burn marks, and molten snow.

SCIENCE RESPONDS

In the year 1999, William Levengood and Nancy Talbott published a scientific paper [1] that contained a study to the node lengthening effect in three different crop circles, two in England and one in the USA. The authors presented a ‘quantitative analysis’; in other words, the article tried to explain the AMOUNT of node lengthening throughout the crop circle, by means of physical models. The authors concluded that the heat (that had made the nodes swell) was electromagnetic in origin.

One year later, I contributed a paper reacting to the one by Levengood and Talbott. This article appeared early 2001 [2]. The paper reinterpreted the data published by Levengood and Talbott and showed that the node lengthening as measured in all three crop circles could be perfectly explained by assuming that a ‘ball of light’ had caused the node swelling effect. An identical analysis performed on a famous man-made formation (Dreischor, Holland, 1997) did not show these characteristics at all.
Link: www.swirlednews.com...

MAGNETIC MATERIALS IN SOILS

In 1993 a crop formation at Cherhill, England was discovered in which some of the epicenter plants were coated with an iron "glaze," composed of fused particles of apparent meteoritic origin. This coating consisted of comingled iron oxides (hematite and magnetite) fused into a heterogeneous mass, which was actually embedded in some of the plant tissue.

This crop formation formed during the annual August Perseids meteor shower. Levengood and Burke hypothesize (see "Semi-Molten Meteoric Iron Associated with a Crop Formation") that microscopic particles of meteoric dust (which are filtering toward earth constantly as meteors burn upon entering the earth's atmosphere, and which would be more abundant during an actual meteor shower) were drawn into the descending plasma system by the strong magnetic fields known to be associated with plasmas, then heated to a molten state by the microwaves (also known to be associated with plasma systems) prior to impact with the earth's surface.
...The magnetic particle distribution found in the control soils�soil samples taken outside the circle complex�is quite different, revealing an erratic pattern of distribution.


Link: www.bltresearch.com...

STUDY
OBJECTIVES:

To determine through x-ray diffraction examination (XRD) and measurement of the consequent Kubler Index (KI) whether changes in crystalline structure exist in specific clay minerals (illite/smectites) in surface soils inside crop circles, as compared to control soils from outside the flattened-crop perimeters;


To determine the statistical significance of the KI data;


To determine whether changes in crystallinity of the illite/smectites in crop circle soils (as demonstrated by changes in the KI) are correlated with apical node-length changes in crop circle plants sampled at the same sampling locations as the soils;


To determine if the XRD/KI results rule out direct mechanical flattening of the crop circle plants;


To determine if the XRD/KI results offer support for the hypothesis that an atmospheric plasma vortex system, emitting microwave radiation, is involved as a causative agent in the crop-circle formation process.





STUDY
RESULTS:

A sharpening of the mica 001 peak [a decrease in the Kubler Index (KI) value, indicative of growth of the illite/mica crystals] was observed in the crop circle soil samples, as compared with their controls;


This increase in crystalline structure was found to be statistically significant at the 95% level of confidence;


A correlation was found between this sharpening of the mica 001 peak (KI) and increases in plant stem node-length (NL), a correlation which is statistically significant at a greater than 99% level of confidence;


The increase in the KI of the mica 001 peak cannot be attributed to mechanical flattening of the crop circle plants since (in the absence of any evidence of geologic pressure) temperatures of at least 6-800°C over several hours of exposure would be required to produce such increased crystal growth;


Because the temperatures needed (a minimum of 6-800°C over a period of several hours) to cause mica crystal growth would have incinerated any plant material present at the site (as well as causing other measurable soil effects), and because we know of no energy which can selectively affect soils to one degree and plants at the same locations to another (as is documented here), we suggest that we may be observing a new--as yet undiscovered--energy source at work. It does appear that heat is involved, but more research is needed to determine its precise nature.

Link: www.bltresearch.com...

When you are done explaining the above, please look at this and explain all of these anomolies as well:

Link: miracles.mcn.org...

PS - I keep providing all this scientific evidence in the hope that someone/some people will try and figure out what is being used to make these circles. I believe people make them -- but with a message and for a purpose. I also believe, without a doubt, that they are not made by boards and rope. The real circles anyway. I could care less about fakes -- anyone can fake anything.

People fake UFO videos all the time -- does that make all UFO videos fake?

site is down, i wonder why!

reply to post by ALLis0NE


Can you please explain how this circle was created with boards and rope, between the hours of 2 AM - 4:30AM? See, the farmer was annoyed that a circle appeared in his field, and watched the field the second night to see if the creators would return. He went to bed at 2 AM and saw nothing. The next morning, the entire 'message' trail was seen. In case you are wondering, it is 1500 feet long and was made in stages over 3 nights.:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8b2c66bf39a5.jpg[/atsimg]

Thank you.

reply to post by afoolbyanyothername


Some farmers do ask for a donation to visit the crop circle. Others do not. Some forbid access all together. Yet some other farmers actually go out and destroy the circle with their tractor to prevent people from visiting.

This is exactly why stating that "the farmers are in on it" does not work. Either they are or they aren't. You can't have some getting paid, some not, and others forbidding access.

Logically, if the makers had a deal with a farmer, they would only make circles in those fields since the odds of getting in trouble with authorities would not be a problem.

They could have deals with 5 or more farmers -- but then why risk making circles in fields that they don't have a deal with -- keep in mind that trespassing and destruction of property (which crop circles are considered) is against the law.

Originally posted by kshaund

My conclusions -

- hoaxers may be doing some, but they're sure not doing all - and they're not 'smart enough' to come up with the intricate designs; fast enough to do it all in a few hours unless there's many of them; quiet enough to do all these without witnesses finding them going in or out; and their designs would go un-noticed unless they alerted someone they were there in the first place.

I think you underestimate the intelligence and artistic ability of humans. I personally think humans can create beautiful and mathematical designs. Graphic artist do it all the time in the real world. Graphic artists and architects often use mathematical ratios in their designs, because it has been discovered that humans find mathematical ratios to be visually pleasing.

Look at the "Golden Ratio" for example. Ancient Greeks such as Euclid and Pythagoras knew about this, and so did Renaissance artists. The Golden Ratio has been intentionally included in many great human works of art.

Another example is the "Fibonacci Sequence". Artists and arctitects have intentionally incorporated complicated Fibonacci mathematics into there designs.

So it may be easy for you to say "humans don't create designs with mathematical ratios" -- but simply saying that does not make it true.

Also, just look at the designs (made by humans) on circlemakers.org

Furthermore, human crop circle makers have already demonstrated that they CAN in fact make complicated circles in one night.

So humans have shown themselves to be smart enough and quick enough to build such circles...can you prove to me that they aren't, besides simply saying "humans can't do it"?

- no one makes money off these - once in a while a farmer will ask admission for lookers to be in his fields, it's nominal compared to running a farm or "not" farming his field so people can look at a circle.

Why would people NEED to make money from them. I know people who have some pretty expensive hobbies who don't make any money from those hobbies. Have you calculated how much it costs to go skiing 10 times a year?

- there has been no accounting for why the stalks bend instead of break.

It's true that some humans have made circles and broke the stalks. HOWEVER, it has been proven through demonstration that some human circle makers can create a circle and only bend the stalks, so what about those circles?

It has been shown that sometimes the difference is in the water content of the plant (the time of the year and weather conditions) rather than the manner used to flatten them.

- there has been no accounting for why sometimes the next year where there was an image, the crop doesn't grow properly there the next year and leaves a vague outline.

I don't know enough about agriculture to answer this one, but that doesn't mean those circles are created in a non-human manner.

- there has been no accounting for the measurements of electromagnetic energy.

I've seen those researchers make those measurements, and I'm sure there are electromagnetic anomalies present at some of those circles.

However, anomalous magnetic readings are NOT exclusive to crop circles...the Earth is not a homogeneously magnetic place. A person could walk around measuring electromagnetic readings and find many anomalies in places where circles do NOT exist -- the Earth is like that.

I would like to see a "control" reading of the area to compare it against the readings taken in the circle. However, it is nearly impossible to get a true "control" measurement, because the measurements can naturally vary from local area to local area. Plus, it would be extremely rare for someone to have a recent "before circle " electromagnetic reading of a field, beofre the circle was made.


[edit on 7/27/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

Hi, Im new and this is my fisrt post.

Well from looking at these pictures it can be hard to imagine one going through so much trouble to create an elabranth hoax. Farmer states no one has access to the area of the crop circle. I imagine this thing was created in one night, which is usually the case with crop circles ( appearing mysteriously the next morning).

If this was a hoax, how many people would it take to create this?
how long would this take to create?
what tools would be used?
how are there no tracks or evidence of an entity present at the scene?
What does this mean?

These are the questions which will never be answered.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


You know that on every other crop circle thread, you complain about how everyone uses cropcircleconnector.com, and therefore they must not be reliable. Yet, you consistently use circlemakers.org to make your points. Isn't that a little hypocritical?

Also, can you please explain the anomolies I pointed out a few posts up?

Lastly, how much money do you really think the crop circle makers earn? Seriously? (and not company logo nonsense that was paid for).

Edit to add: I provided you with the control sample information you requested in my quote and link a few posts up.

[edit on 27-7-2009 by lpowell0627]

Wow, I dont know what to make of all of this.

There is so much yet unexplained

The biggest question of all is how in the hell are these conspirators (ppl)creating these circles so fast with no trace

I believe that these circles are created by an entity of some sort.

I must say that I have wittnessed two events in my life of unexplained unidentified flying objects, there images so distorted now that I have no clear memory of their shape, though I do know that it was not of earthly origin.

That's neat and all, but you can very clearly see many many paths where it looks people were walking around the thing. Presumably to make it.

I admire the people who take the time to do such things though, I would like to learn how. It's time we bring some CS artwork to the US.

Originally posted by Demonis
That's neat and all, but you can very clearly see many many paths where it looks people were walking around the thing. Presumably to make it.

I admire the people who take the time to do such things though, I would like to learn how. It's time we bring some CS artwork to the US.

The're called visitors.

Many people trek through the circles to see them. If you look at the first pictures, there are never any tracks. If there were footprints through all of the circles, this enigma would have been solved eons ago.

Crop circles attract thousands of visitors. That's why you can see people in some of the pictures! They're not the makers obviously.