German High Court Hijacking EU

The German high court is ambushing the European Union.
Germany’s Federal Constitutional Court recently ruled that the Lisbon Treaty is compatible with the German constitution. On June 30, the court rejected complaints
by some German lawmakers that the treaty violated the constitution, and decided
that “the substance of German state authority is protected” in the treaty.
Presiding judge Andreas Vokuhle in his verdict, which was televised nationally, “but calls at national level for a strengthening of parliamentary responsibility”.
What does Vokuhle mean by the “strengthening of parliamentary responsibility”? He means this: Before Germany ratifies the Lisbon Treaty, it must strengthen the German parliament’s influence on EU decisions made in Brussels. Therefore, a law is now being created that will demand members of the Bundestag approve any change to the Lisbon Treaty, or any expansion of EU power, before it can be imposed on Germany.

By nature, this law essentially equips Germany with the power to hijack the EU!

Could this ruling be any more plain? When it comes to EU affairs, Germany considers the European Parliament a minor instrument, and the German national constitution, and the German federal court, the supreme authority!
Under the new law, the German high court will often supersede the European Union courts. Take the European Court of Justice, for instance. If it makes a decision at odds with German national law, or if Germany perceives that it oversteps its uthority, German citizens will have the right to legal protection by the Federal Constitutional Court, even against EU regulations.

In its ruling, the German high court expressed concern that the EU in its current form is an undemocratic institution. It argued that this new law strengthening the role of the German parliament in Brussels would make the EU more democratic.
Look at history. Could there be a more terrifying LIE? Yet most of Europe has fallen for it!

This new law will NOT make the EU more democratic. Germany will be the only member with a greater voice. It’s a stealthy ambush of Brussels that will only make the European Union even more German-centric, German-dependent and German-dominated. This legal decision will equip Berlin with far-reaching leverage over EU law and policy, and will ultimately advance Germany’s prophetic march to become the unchecked leader of a united European empire.

Believe it or not, this resurrected German empire is about to touch your life!

Why is the whole of the world asleep?
Can't they see what is going on in Europe?

Wake up before it is too late!!!!

Sorry if I am misunderstanding this but no source was posted.

Let me see if I get this right in my translation:

The Germans are saying that EU law or regulations can be superseded by the German court "On Germans / Germany only?" if the Germans think it is not constitutional?

Did I get that right? Is this "over-ruling" power on EU law and regulations only apply to their own country or can it impact other nations as well? That is the one part I am a bit fuzzy on.

Now, to be quite honest, If this is simply the Germans maintaining "National Sovereignty" and only applies to their nation (being able to over-rule EU unelected judges and corrupt power hungry bureaucrats in their own damned country) then I applaud their foresight! If I get this right, they want a Veto power before any BS EU law can be enforced upon them... right? If so, I applaud them!

I would expect nothing less from our own government in the US when entering any type of treaty. The US Constitution and our freedoms are not negotiable for a foreign body to dictate!!


If I am wrong with my "assumption" of a "veto" vote then please explain further.

[edit on 19-7-2009 by infolurker]

reply to post by infolurker


Hi infolurker,

Your Questions about Germany:

1) The Germans are saying that EU law or regulations can be superseded by the German court "On Germans / Germany only?" if the Germans think it is not constitutional?

2) Did I get that right? Is this "over-ruling" power on EU law and regulations only apply to their own country or can it impact other nations as well? That is the one part I am a bit fuzzy on.

No 1) The new Laws overide EU laws and dont only apply in Germany but "all" EU nations.

No 2) Yes they do overide other nations.

Let me clarify > Under the new Lisbon treaty, (Signed by all EU Countries) German has the right to overthrow a Democratically passed EU law, if that law conflicts with Germany's "Best Interest" or is deemed to override Germany's Constitution! Therefore, all EU Countries essentially come under the German Constitution!!

Hope that clarifies it.

Now, to be quite honest, If this is simply the Germans maintaining "National Sovereignty" and only applies to their nation (being able to over-rule EU unelected judges and corrupt power hungry bureaucrats in their own damned country) then I applaud their foresight! If I get this right, they want a Veto power before any BS EU law can be enforced upon them... right? If so, I applaud them!

This is exactly what has happened here in Germany, but it comes nearly 10 years too late
Had the court ruled back then we would have no Euro now and the Mark would still be a strong currency.

reply to post by Fett Pinkus


Hi Fett Pinkus,

You stated: "This is exactly what has happened here in Germany, but it comes nearly 10 years too late" and "Had the court ruled back then we would have no Euro now and the Mark would still be a strong currency."

I applaud your nationalism and insights.
Question, do you believe Germany should have the right to overthrow Democratically made laws and institute it's own on the EU?
Do you believe that the idea of a European Union of Nations should be replaced with a German European Nation with other countries playing "Second Fiddle"?
This is essentially what Germany has done! What is next hijacking of the European Armies?

Actually this is not what Germany has done. The court has basically said that any other major changes have to go through and be approved by the Bundestag first. Also there is a law which has to be changed by the lawmakers first before we can ratify the treaty. The law has to do with our politicians having to check and approve any laws made by the EU to see if they break our national laws.

No where does it say that we want to create a German European Nation and hijack the european army.

Gotcha...

So I think I got this.... let's see if I am right here with my examples.

On the pro-side, Germans want veto power on EU laws because they don't want to get the shaft.

On the con side, With that veto power they could veto something that doesn't directly impact them... say for example a new EU law to set "term limits" on politicians in France or a road funding project in Italy, or new toll booths on roads in England.


Am I right?

Your right with the pro side
It only concerns EU laws and the impacts on Germany and not on other countries so this will not affect other EU countries as you mentioned with the con side.

reply to post by infolurker


Hi infolurker

"On the pro-side, Germans want veto power on EU laws because they don't want to get the shaft."

True

"On the con side, With that veto power they could veto something that doesn't directly impact them... say for example a new EU law to set "term limits" on politicians in France or a road funding project in Italy, or new toll booths on roads in England."

True

All EU Laws have to be passed through German Parliament "FIRST!!!!"

Hence this is an effective "Hijacking" of the EU!!!!!!!!

SO PLAIN AND SIMPLE, BUT IT SEEMS EVEN THE GERMAN CITIZENS "DON'T GET IT"!!!!

reply to post by Fett Pinkus


Hi Fett Pinkus,
Lets go through your points one by one.

1) "The court has basically said that any other major changes have to go through and be approved by the Bundestag first"

So all EU law changes have to go through the Bundestag first?? Not Brussells?? Isn't the "LAW MAKING BODY OF THE EU" in Brussells?? And isn't it represented by all EU Countries???
Isn't this a "hijacking" of the EU?? How does an individual country in a union of countries stipulate that their Constitution holds precedent over all others?
Why can't England or Spain or any other country do the same??? If this occurred then the idea of a "UNION" would be stupid!!

2) "Also there is a law which has to be changed by the lawmakers first before we can ratify the treaty"

Yes, i know which law it is!!! It is the law which allows all member countries of the EU to make changes and stipulations to the EU!!!

3) "The law has to do with our politicians having to check and approve any laws made by the EU to see if they break our national laws"

You have to check laws made by the EU?? Shouldn't the EU be checking if your laws violate it's LAWS??

4) "No where does it say that we want to create a German European Nation and hijack the european army"

This isn't what i stated!! What i was was pertaining to is that if a single country has control of the "LAW MAKING BODY" of the EU then they would effectively control all law enforcement, military and civilian. Hence my point was that they have control of the army already!!!

You seem to have it all backward!!! This is a "UNION" of European countries, not a GERMAN LED KINGDOM with other nations joining.

Don't take this as a anti-German or rascist attack, I only wish to discuss the ramifications of these actions.
It is all good and well to allow this sort of thing if we have a benign, peace loving country at the helm, but i am afraid that your country has proven itself to be the opposite. Germany started both world wars in its quest to "UNITE EUROPE" and now it has a United Europe already it won't need to expend blood in conquering it.

Get ready for a "Strong Leader" to emerge in your country. One that will take you to the highest peak of your history and lay waste to this Earth as never before.

reply to post by starwarp2000


Listen my friend, Germany has tried twice before and has learnt it's lesson.

The Germans I know, and it's quite a few, have no desire to run the EU, however, they do wish to protect German rights and for it not be dictated to by the EU, oh how I wish the British government would take the same stance for us!

reply to post by Freeborn


QUOTE "Listen my friend, Germany has tried twice before and has learnt it's lesson.

The Germans I know, and it's quite a few, have no desire to run the EU, however, they do wish to protect German rights and for it not be dictated to by the EU, oh how I wish the British government would take the same stance for us!" UNQUOTE

Hi Freeborn,
Well my friend i am sorry to say that they are about to do it again, and this time they will succeed!!!

OK, they don't want to run the EU??? They only want to control it???

Is it OK for one nation in a Union of Nations to have the rights to not obey the Laws stipulated by that Union, to protect their own rights??
Do you know what you are saying??
If all the European nations did the same then their would be no central body for monetary or law oversight and therefore there would be no UNION!!!

Why can't England or Spain or Ireland pass laws that overide EU LAWS???

So what i am getting at is, why is one country doing it if they don't want to control it???

reply to post by starwarp2000


I personally want absolutely nothing to do with the EU and would gladly pull out of it tomorrow.
But you are playing on people's fears.
The Germans merely wish to protect THEIR laws by preventing EU law to overrule German law.
As I said, if the UK is to stay in the EU then we too should take a stand and ensure that British law takes precedent over EU law and no law maybe implemented in the UK which is contradictory to British law and interests.

If there is any move towards a NWO then it will not be 'nation' driven with one nation seeking dominance over all others but a group of families whose agenda fails to recognise individuals and nations and only seeks the advancement of their own self interests.

Rest assured, everyday Germans do not want world or European domination anymore than the people's of any other nation.



Edit to correct grammar etc

[edit on 19/7/09 by Freeborn]

reply to post by Freeborn


Then why did you sign the treaty? If you don't want to be in it then pull out of it. I am sure there are other like minded people such as yourself in England who didn't want it, but it is there and it won't go away.

The point I was making is:
How can Germany protect THEIR laws over all others??? I know what they are doing I just can't get around the fact that all other nations in the EU aren't doing this!! Why would that be??? Maybe it has something to do with it being a UNION of Nations and not a CONGLOMERATE of nations with a few obeying the letter of the treaty and others allowed to do what they like!!!

As for the NWO being a group of families well that is debatable. I believe that indeed there will be a NWO and it wont be a family it will be a UNION OF NATIONS. But your point about an agenda that fails to recognise individuals and nations and only seeks the advancement of their own self interests is what Germany is doing now! There actions are exactly this: Seeking their own self interests over all member nations of the EU.

I know everyday Germans don't want world domination or even European domination!!! They didn't want it in either World War, it was only a few at the top that took the rest along for the ride. So what we must worry about is this: Is Germany (The Leaders not the people) genuinely interested in the welfare of all Member Nations in the EU or does it want the EU to follow it's Laws and Constitution??? Very honest questions!!!
If we want this Union to be a Union then why is this being allowed?
Hope this clarifies my point.

reply to post by starwarp2000

Why can't England or Spain or Ireland pass laws that overide EU LAWS???

Maybe Germany is just the first to act, and others may follow soon. This is all about EU laws taking a constutional right away from the German citizen. Every citizen of every nation usually wants to see the their constitution remain unviolated.

for example a new EU law to set "term limits" on politicians in France or a road funding project in Italy, or new toll booths on roads in England.

The most that could happen is that Germans can't be forced to pave Italian roads or build English toll booths under less than "constitutional" terms. Maybe the Germans will also be spared paying for these things outside their own boundaries. The Italians will still get their new roads and the English will still have toll booths built. It just won't happen at the expense of the German constitution.

Anyone of any nation, who likes their national constitution, should hope that their national laws and freedoms remain sovereign to thier land.

reply to post by starwarp2000


I didn't sign any treaty, someone illegally signed the treaty in my and my countrymen's name.
That person(s) should be held accountable and tried for treason!

The vast majority of British people do not want to remain in the EU which is why we are being denied a referendum.
This is causing unrest in the UK with more and more voters going to anti-EU parties like UKIP and even BNP.

The nect General Election will see a major poll swing with voters demanding a say in politics.
Party politics as we know it is on it's way out and good riddance says I!

Yes, you have asked very valid and relevant points.
But I don't blame the Germans for trying to protect their self interests, I only wish we were as strong.
Every person in every country in the EU should be asking the same questions and demanding the same rights...maybe then we will see the break up of the EU.

There is no point in the EU at all.
It is decadent, corrupt and domineering.

I for one would prefer to trade in an open market and seek closer links with our trusted Commonwealth allies who have supported us for years.
We have deep rooted cultural ties that bind with them.

reply to post by starwarp2000




Do you even believe what you are typing?

I dont see anyone on the political level even intrested in what your implying.

Weve had 2 wars ehind us and have learned our lesson more than any country.

reply to post by Fett Pinkus


Nobody is interested?? Are you talking Germany specifically or the EU?
I am sure you can find many references to this subject by doing a Google search. How about discussing the subject matter and not attacking the messenger!
I wasn't implying that you needed to learn from the World Wars!

reply to post by Fett Pinkus


OK!
It seems that as the originator of this thread i haven't been specific enough.
Let us once again state the purpose of this thread.

This thread was started to discuss the implications of Germany's ratification of the Lisbon Treaty with it's added addendum.

This thread is seeking intelligent discussion on the implications of this to a United Europe.

reply to post by Fett Pinkus


European Union 101

The European Union is a "Union" of separate nations coming together under one unified law, monetary system, military power and if possible religion.
This Union came out of the European Common market and has been formed via the "Lisbon Treaty".
This essentially means that individual nation's Constitutions, Laws, Military forces and Banks all come under the power of the Central Power of the European Union.
This Center of power is located in Brussels, where the European Parliament is situated. Here, member nations send their representatives to discuss Laws, Monetary Systems and Military matters.

The above is what the European Union has been formed for. The actuality of the matter is that the "Lisbon Treaty" has to be ratified by the individual member nations and then all power goes to the central authority.
What has happened is that a few countries haven't signed it yet, so "full" unification can't happen yet.
The countries that haven't signed yet: Ireland, the Czech Republic and Poland, have issues about handing over power to a central authority.
Germany has just ratified this treaty, with addendum, and this is what this thread was started for.

TO DISCUSS THE IMPLICATIONS OF THESE ADDENDUM ON EUROPEAN UNIFICATION.