Obama is a citizen of kenya..with actual laws to back it up.

Since when do we allow Kenyan law to trump our own?

How about this...let's say North Korea passes a law that says all people born on Earth are citizens of North Korea...does that mean no one will ever be elgible for US president anymore?

Don't be stupid...Obama is a citizen...he is the President...and he will be for the next four years...and probably the 4 after that as well.

reply to post by yeahright

It's certainly not good enough for me. A Wiki Answers forum? The two answers below it contradict that one. Is it good enough for you?

Nah, I would like to see that part in the Constitution, I'll have to look for it.

Has yet to be proven to my satisfaction.

I agree, I should've put it differently there, as I did in the rest of my posts, they POSSIBLY lied.

This entire opening post is about Kenya

Yes, the country in question, but it really is about the law that possibly has been broken.

Not in my opinion. It's more like taking a Jackson Pollock painting and connecting dots to create a pastoral scene.

Ah, so you hate the bailouts, but you don't care if your president is not legally eligable for the job?

Is it not obvious that these lies and these crimes come from the same force?

[edit on 15-7-2009 by Point of No Return]

Okay I'm obviously not making myself clear here, so I'll try one last time then vacate the thread for y'all to hammer out whatever you'd like.

Originally posted by Point of No Return
but it really is about the law that possibly has been broken.

Which I have yet to see in this thread, the law that has been broken.

Ah, so you hate the bailouts, but you don't care if your president is not legally eligable for the job?

>sigh< My issue all along has been with THIS THREAD. I don't see where it potentially adds anything new that isn't covered in greater detail in a plethora of other threads. Of course his eligibility matters. It matters so much that it bothers me when a thread like this pops up that isn't advancing anything new or different and is in fact making it all less clear. I'd prefer the topic not be diluted.

Is it not obvious that these lies and these crimes come from the same force?

Name it. The ephemeral THEM we're all worried about, or something specific? If it's all so obvious, why can't someone just come out and say it without questioning how I came to moderate a conspiracy site or my perceived/inferred lack of concern for the issue?

Have fun.

[edit on 7/15/2009 by yeahright]

reply to post by Point of No Return


I think he said at one point, that he did denounce it. But this gets even more confusing when you consider that he spent his childhood in Indonesia as an Indonesian! Indonesia does not recognize dual citizenship and he had to be an Indonesian in order to attend the school he attended. Therefore, his step dad adopted him. In addition, at some point, Obama was quoted as saying that he attended college as a foreign student. Huh? There are no known records of him ever being naturalized as an American, after returning to Hawaii from Indonesia. This guy's background is absolutely hokey and scary and it's even more alarming that most Americans don't give a rip. My opinion of him: he's an empty suit puppet with no legal right to be president, much less to be living in the U.S. Deport him, but to where? Kenya or Indonesia?

Obama is a citizen of Kenya..

OK, then produce his Kenyan Birth Certificate and let's put this puppy to rest and start the process to impeach him.

Originally posted by yeahright
The US really has no control over the laws of Kenya and how they qualify Kenyan citizenship.

Star for you.

That should have ended this new aspect of the "citizenship" debate right there.

Kenya claiming a person to be a citizen of it's country according to it's own laws and definitions does not negate any other claims of citizenship to any person that is made by any other country according to its laws.

It's two different sets of rules that can apply to one individual, and yet neither is invalid.

One doesn't somehow magically trump the other, however this could actually explain why some Kenyans seem to claim Obama is a citizen of Kenya. It's because their laws claim this to be so based simply on his fathers Kenyan citizenship, and not of his actual birthplace.

It's actually a blow to the birther political agenda.

- Lee

what in the hell is your point? have you never heard of multi-citizenship?

For example, I am a passport-holding citizen of:

the United States
Canada
El Salvador

when your parents are from different countries and you are born in a third, guess what happens? Obama's father is Kenyan, why is it no surprise that Kenya claims him to be a citizen? The legality of their claim is not definite, anyway - and you can always very easily simply renounce your citizenship. I almost did it with my American citizenship several times as a matter of fact, the only thing holding me back is my father's job and how it would reflect on him in his employer's eyes.

i'd also like to point out your wiki-answers page is hilariously misguided. a multi-citizen does not have to obey the laws of every country he is a citizen of - you are only required to obey the laws of the country you are in.

obama was born in the united states. he is a natural-born united states citizen. he is entirely capable of running for office, which he did do and won. democrats had to put up with 8 years of political retardation, why cant republicans admit defeat?

[edit on 16-7-2009 by JScytale]

Please, those of you who actually think that the OP has proof stop and beat your head against the wall and read it again, with the link. It is only 1 of wiki's opinions as an answer. No other country's laws matter as to what we define as a natural born citizen, and congress has no say either. Congress has naturalization powers, but that is for citizens born outside of the US and doesn't apply here. The definition of a natural born citizen is not specifically laid out in the constitution, and so it is left up to the individual state to determine that. If a person is born outside the US but on US soil; overseas base, and there is a dispute it might be up to the supreme court. Interpreting the constitution is one of the judicial branch's purposes after all. In any of these cases the law has already made a choice and the ONLY thing that will overturn that is proof of a fraudulent claim. You have to prove that Obama lied, not dig up some obscure foreign law; that is meaningless.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by Histopherness

 

They think that as US citizens we have a right to challenge the presidents eligibility.

Statements like these # me off more than anything.

We are not servants to the government the Government is a servant to us. When the decision came down that US citizens have no standing to challenge the authority of the president, that is the most unconstitutional thing ever.

In the first Amendment, we have a RIGHT to file a redress to congress about anything.

The US supreme court has determined that private citizens do not have standing to judge the fulfillment of the eligibility requirements for a politician - This is known as a nonjusticiable political question.

As a practical matter, some government entity must have the authority to interpret the constitution and apply that interpretation to the individual facts of a case. After all, how could anyone, for example, defend themselves arguing that a search warrant wasn't based on probable cause if no one has the power to interpret the what the words "probable cause" mean? If Congress passes a law that violates freedom of speech, some government entity must have the power to apply the facts to the law to make that determination.

This necessary branch is the judicial branch and its highest court - the US Supreme Court. As established by Marbury v. Madison, the US Supreme court has the power of judicial review. If you think your opinion of the constitution is better, it doesn't matter. Someone must have the final word and that's the US Supreme Court.

Like someone else said, who cares really? He's already president. There's enough evidence to back up the fact he was NOT born in the US.

So let it go. He's YOUR president...no changing that.

reply to post by andrewh7


Thank you; someone who understand that we already have entities in place to review judicial decisions; and guess what, it isn't the naked guy in the bean bag chair eating cheetos. (Yes, that is a Ron White reference)

thanks for posting this, that last obama birth certificate thread was making me sick. I cant believe there are actually people in this country that want to support a lieing, cheating, stealing, illegal, corrupt government.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by epete22


sigh.
he is your president. there is no changing that. hell, bush was proven to have not won the vote but stayed in office.

if you think differently and think you're going to do something about it, go ahead. at best case you'll get laughed at, at worst you'll get shot. actually, maybe those are backwards.

reply to post by yeahright

I'm way more concerned about potential corporate/organizational influence than I am about Kenya's potential influence. Kenya's 2008 GDP was $60 billion. That's way under what the government has tossed out in bailout money the last 6 months, which through April 30th were about 12 TRILLION in commitments.

Kenya is the least of my worries.

Obama's in office. He's not going anywhere. We'd be better served to pay attention to what they're doing now, than whether or not he may have been granted Kenyan citizenship way before he even knew what that meant. Which would still have no effect on his Constitutional eligibility to serve.

Finally! Thank God we have some people who live in this reality and not their political twilight zone. Whatever the purpose of the OP is...whether it be for political idealogies or whatever, does it matter at this point?

How bout we pay attention to what in the hell is going on right in front of our eyes and quit with all the political pandering that constantly takes place in ATS and beyond...Lets get with the program as some would say...

Originally posted by epete22
reply to post by GorehoundLarry

 

You wanna bet? Your comment makes me sick.

What a wimp you are.

there is no need for insults nor name calling in the thread. Especially when the person hasn't said anything wrong. You disagree with the fact that he's your president or do you disagree with the fact you are not able to do anything about him not being born in this country? Fact is: He is YOUR president and are not able to do ANYTHING to change that. I know, it sucks doesn't it? I don't like him either, but hey. I accept it .

Either way. Your post was very immature and uncalled for.


Sincerely,
~GHL


p.s - if Bush wasn't impeached for deceiving the country about the war in Iraq and being responsible for war crimes, I promise you Obama isn't going to be impeached because he wasn't born here.




[edit on 16-7-2009 by GorehoundLarry]

Whether a real citizen of America or not, Obama was what Americans wanted as leader. I feel no sympathy for what happens now.

Whether we are heading to communism or something completely new, it is different and I welcome change.

Give him a little more time.

I don't see how he could possibly be Kenyan if born on American soil, to an American. To me, that is more legitimate than any law of Kenya.

America is NOT a Democracy. A lynch mob is a Democracy. Or a Cannibal Club....everyone agrees to eat the newest member... so they do??!!
Is THAT what people want?

America was established, as I understand it, as a Democratic Constitutional Republic.
Democratic is the ADJECTIVE, Republic is the NOUN.
A Republic has laws. The principle is to abide by the rule of the Majority while protecting the rights of the Minority.

If you own a gas station and the closest town is 60% Greens, would you feel it would be right for the Greens Mayor to take away your gas station because they don't like cars?

If you are one of only 4 black persons in a small town, would you feel it OK if the Mayor decided "Blacks must be off of the street by 7PM"? Would it be OK if a 75% super majority voted for the Mayor?

I think your response would be something like, "Well no, they didn't elect a king"

I cannot fathom why folks would not want the laws to be applied appropriately.
Change them if need be, but APPLY them. Anything else is some grade of Anarchy or Totolatarianism.

Originally posted by Histopherness
reply to post by yeahright

 

This one is no different. People just like to talk. They think that as US citizens we have a right to challenge the presidents eligibility. Several United States District Courts have ruled that private citizens DO NOT having standing to challenge a candidate what makes them think they have anymore right to challenge him after he has won?

I can understand people being pissy, Obama has done a crap job so far, but pissy AND uneducated is a combo I just can't stand.

Because this is America, a place built on questioning authority and born of rebellion. We've always been up to questioning our leaders, though perhaps not to the extent the founding fathers would have wanted (after all not only did Bush escape impeachment and treason charges but he was also reelected that one time )

Anyway every citizen has a right and duty to question the doings of their government, voice dissenting and differing opinions, and, if tyranny has been established, overthrow said government and restore liberty...

As for Obama, its too late for all these questions, had they been raised by enough people in the 2006-2007 run up to the election and pressed hard enough TPTB might have chosen a different puppet... But Obama is President now, there's no turning back, and the endless debate over whether he's eligible or not distracts us from the scrutiny of whether he's being a puppet of the greedy Elite or actually trying to help save this nation...

Originally posted by lpowell0627
I hope this thread attracts the attention it deserves.

My question is this:

You've proven that Obama is a citizen of Kenya only if Obama's father and mother were married at the time of his birth. Which I believe they were since she filed for divorce when Obama was a child, thus already born.

Now, for the question. If Obama had given up his Kenya citizenship, would the constitution allow for this?

In other words, your source states that dual citizenship is not allowed for fear of which country's allegiance would dominate.

Is Obama still a legal citizen of Kenya, or did he denounce (recall?) that citizenship?

How does filing for a divorce when Obama was a child prove they were married when he was born? He could have been born, they then got married, and divorced while he was still young.

It happens everywhere in the world, everyday.

A couple get pregnant...the child is born...they do the right thing and get married for the kid, but it doesn't work out...nothing unusual there. Very common.

As for giving up his dual citizenship, i don't think that could be classed as 'Natural born American'. Natural born, as the constitution states cannot mean dual nationality. Simply giving up the nationality of the foreign country doesn't fulfil that criteria.

I'm a UK citizen...if i renounce it, and become a US citizen, i could not run for prez, as i am not a 'natural born American', i would be a naturalISED citizen, not a natural born citizen.