The Economy Is Even Worse Than You Think

reply to post by imd12c4funn



Because statistics, and trends, just like polls of 2,000 - 4,000 Americans which some members, and statiticians claim "shows a trend of what ALL AMERICANS think" is wrong.

This gives employment to a bunch of people whose whole career is about making up stories and posting trends and polls which are most of the time rigged to back the claims of that person, or group trying to spread their propaganda.

The present administration is in deep "caca", and they know it, but they are trying to claim everything is fine and well, and "600,000 jobs will be saved" when we have had a REAL trend of over 500,000 Americans losing their jobs every month, for several months.

It's all a game to these people. Meanwhile they try to hide the truth of the situation to most Americans, things are getting worse and worse, and not better like they are trying to claim.

I work for an Insurance Company and many people have been laid off and I suspect it will only get worse as people evaluate their finances and make cuts accordingly. 'Do I feed my family or pay for my insurance'. I don't think there is much of a question there.

The entire scope of what is taking place in this country is beyond our comprehension because we are only working with parts of the formula. This is causing us all to speculate what is taking place and what to expect. Things are bad - we all agree on this. What choice do we have as a citizen at this point? These Tea Parties are interesting but what's being done - I see them spreading valuable information but nothing, in the end will change from these Tea Parties. I appreciate what's being done there, don't get me wrong..but in the interest of effectual changes I don't see anything of substance taking place.

Is the United States a slowly sinking ship - and all the rats 'in the know' saving themselves through this 'Bail-Out' program? Anyone with the ability to critically analyze what's been done with the unbelievably well connected people in the Treasury and Fed. (Goldman Sachs: Google these connections and you will see) can see its a huge money grab. This Bail-Out will not save the people of this great Country..... what will? Realistically? I don't want to hear armed revolt or any other such fantasies ... but I would like to hear peoples perspectives on what they think they can do as individuals and groups to effect real change?

BTW starred, and flagged.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Unfortunately things will only get worse, and more so with the new Carbon taxes, and I am not sure how long it will take for things to get better.

The government bailouts went to the large investment firms that created our current financial HELL, instead of to the people for a REAL economic recovery. I have noticed that immediately before a big economic report by the government comes out, a large bank pays out bonuses. This makes their numbers look better for the whole economy. So if one person makes a million dollars and the other nine earn nothing, the average earnings are $100,000 per person. If they all make $100,000 the average earnings are still $100,000. The bailouts were designed to keep the public in the dark about how bad things really are and the timing of the bonuses is orchestrated by the Federal Reserve to make the numbers look good. Of course the financials are strong, they received tax payer money so they can keep living their lies.

I wish some of you folks who need a job would come out here to Oklahoma and Texas. We have plenty of jobs and affordable housing, blue skies, clean air, lots of open spaces.

However, if this cap and trade thing happens, our economy is going to crash because we are energy and farming states and our power plants run on coal so I am sure we will be "punished" by the likes of Al Gore.

I'm here to voice a dissenting opinion.

I live in a major metropolitan city in the United States and I make my living working primarily with people in rural communities. Nowhere before me nor in the communities I interact with have I seen anything even approximating this much talked about 'Depression Redux'. While times are surely not good and many of our brothers and sisters need help because no one should have to sustain a year of unemployment while looking earnestly for work, this is not the end of the world. I've been watching the same numbers everyone else has. Like most statistics, they aren't just open to interpretation. They beg for it.

So here, a nation of fearful but undeniably affluent individuals is scrawling out their hopes and fears from their armchairs. Predictions derived from the numbers pushed out by the federal government and main stream media. Stepping away from the interpretive aspect, the numbers themselves are suspect. But one would do well to inquire: is the skew optimistic? Is the MSM message optimistic?

We are united in this forum by the belief that underneath it all, there are webs of misdirection and half-truths that link together those who benefit most from the status quo. We all differ in who we think those people are and the details or extent of their schemes and deeds. But with this as a premise, I ask you: if the PTB are trying to convince us that everything is going to be fine, why was the MSM openly asking if this meant the demise of capitalism? Them's big words! And now that the MSM is putting lipstick on the situation, why all the talk of green shoots when the numbers haven't yet shown an unambiguous improvement?

I would argue that the whole thing was a gambit from the beginning to convince us that the problems of a few -- investment houses, their very wealth clientele, and assorted cottage industries -- must have sufficient contagion to infect the many. This might justify to the majority some massive government action which has essentially served the purpose of protecting those few, in retrospect. Well, what if it wasn't a foregone conclusion that this problem had to negatively impact the many? What if that really amounted to threats and blustering to convince the many that they must rally to save the livelihoods and positions of those few for the sake of the greater good? What if the economy was just fine, and is still just fine? What if the United States doesn't need to be the absolute, undisputed, pre-eminent power to preserve the quality of life and freedom we all appreciate (at least in contrast to much of the world)?

What if the fear mongering on the economy is just a con job?

reply to post by JohnnyElohim


It's more about the scam/theft of it all than anything. People still need to eat and such, and demand isn't going to go away with that. It's the amount of downright leeching/theft that is the problem.

The economic times are merely a reflection of that. And it would take a bunch of posts that nobody would likely read for me to explain it all, but it's not the conditions themselves that are the problem, they are merely a symptom.

Nowhere before me nor in the communities I interact with have I seen anything even approximating this much talked about 'Depression Redux'.

Consider yourself extremely lucky and unique. I can assure you that the rest of the country is hurting severely - homelessness, foreclosures, lost jobs, etc.

If you really want to know what's coming your way, go take a plane trip to the city of Detroit next weekend. This is what the rest of America will look like soon. The rest of the country is just getting a tiny taste of what Michigan has been fighting for the last decade.

The malaise is spreading, and fast. This, I can assure you.

While times are surely not good and many of our brothers and sisters need help because no one should have to sustain a year of unemployment while looking earnestly for work, this is not the end of the world. I've been watching the same numbers everyone else has.

It's not the end of the world if you're one of the lucky few to be employed, well off, in a unique "recession-proof" business, but most Americans are definitely feeling the heat right now, with layoffs, reduced hours and wages, downsizing, restructuring, foreclosures, fierce competition for jobs, etc.

What if the economy was just fine, and is still just fine?

The economy is in shambles by any metric that you choose - unemployment, job creation, growth, etc. It's a disaster by any metric - quantitative or qualitative. This, too, from the leading economists in the country, as well as the news pundits.

If you want qualitative proof, again, take a trip to Michigan because the malaise is coming to a city near you.

What if the fear mongering on the economy is just a con job?

I don't deny that there are very, very powerful political and business interests that were heavily involved in the disastrous decisions that led to this economic mess. However, the economy being in shambles is most definitely not fear-mongering nor a "con job" - The malaise and economic recession - nay Depression - is very, very real for a large portion of the American population.

Even in Michigan, the food pantries that normally serve the poor in the city, have now been expanded to the suburbs - and they can't keep up with the demand. Michigan is a microcosm of what the rest of the country will look like shortly in due time.

Just wait a few months when unemployment runs out and states can no longer afford to pay unemployment benefits. You haven't seen anything yet - This is just getting started, believe me.

"What if the fear mongering on the economy is just a con job? "
- Very well written post, I enjoyed reading it. But...
The company I work for has cut over 600 jobs. That's not a con job but a fact. People are losing their jobs and in large numbers and on a regular basis. If the poor state of the economy is nothing more than a lie ... What does the PTB stand to gain from people losing their jobs? Movement to a one-world currency? We already have that...the Dollar. What does it stand to give the PTB to switch this to another countries currency or create a new one recognized by every country in the world (which would be very difficult)... that's very unlikely as the Dollar is already in place for this. So for this economic collapse to be nothing but a con job is very unlikely.

I don't see economic recovery from the 'bail-out'. Cap and trade only stands to make things much worse. Its as if the team of people calling the shots and making the decisions that will determine our future is committing to a sort-of economic suicide. What can we do about it though? Its really far out of the citizens hands. Tent cities and I-O-U's anyone?

[edit on 14-7-2009 by Mr.Hyde]

Originally posted by JohnnyElohim
I'm here to voice a dissenting opinion.

I live in a major metropolitan city in the United States and I make my living working primarily with people in rural communities. Nowhere before me nor in the communities I interact with have I seen anything even approximating this much talked about 'Depression Redux'. While times are surely not good and many of our brothers and sisters need help because no one should have to sustain a year of unemployment while looking earnestly for work, this is not the end of the world. I've been watching the same numbers everyone else has. Like most statistics, they aren't just open to interpretation. They beg for it.

So here, a nation of fearful but undeniably affluent individuals is scrawling out their hopes and fears from their armchairs. Predictions derived from the numbers pushed out by the federal government and main stream media. Stepping away from the interpretive aspect, the numbers themselves are suspect. But one would do well to inquire: is the skew optimistic? Is the MSM message optimistic?

We are united in this forum by the belief that underneath it all, there are webs of misdirection and half-truths that link together those who benefit most from the status quo. We all differ in who we think those people are and the details or extent of their schemes and deeds. But with this as a premise, I ask you: if the PTB are trying to convince us that everything is going to be fine, why was the MSM openly asking if this meant the demise of capitalism? Them's big words! And now that the MSM is putting lipstick on the situation, why all the talk of green shoots when the numbers haven't yet shown an unambiguous improvement?

I would argue that the whole thing was a gambit from the beginning to convince us that the problems of a few -- investment houses, their very wealth clientele, and assorted cottage industries -- must have sufficient contagion to infect the many. This might justify to the majority some massive government action which has essentially served the purpose of protecting those few, in retrospect. Well, what if it wasn't a foregone conclusion that this problem had to negatively impact the many? What if that really amounted to threats and blustering to convince the many that they must rally to save the livelihoods and positions of those few for the sake of the greater good? What if the economy was just fine, and is still just fine? What if the United States doesn't need to be the absolute, undisputed, pre-eminent power to preserve the quality of life and freedom we all appreciate (at least in contrast to much of the world)?

What if the fear mongering on the economy is just a con job?

First of all, you are trying to say the MSM is pushing fear mongering. Not sure what MSM you are looking at, they are pushing hope down the throats of everything based on zero facts. This article I posted was one realistic one in a sea of crap. What I would like to point out to you, is that the people you say you work with are not the average persons in this country, AND there are not the epicenter of what the problems in the economy are.

Keep in mind, most consumers were not the problem. It was the role of banks, the govt, and a irresponsible portion of consumers.

So I would say, go talk to business owners whose success is driven by growth. I talk to them frequently given my business, and not one is optimistic, or seeing any growth or slowing for that matter. I am sure bankruptcy attorneys are doing amazing though.

But nothing has changed besides the banking system being pulled back from the brink, and placed on life support. They still aren't lending. And this fall commercial real estate lending will collapse followed closely by optionARM mortgages. We are far from the bottom my friend. Hope and gut feelings are nice, but the FACTS point a much different direction.

When the economy started its downward slide last year I thought it was a con job also, but as time goes on and the economy worsens I think there are fundamental problems that need to be addressed. I heard someone today say we are headed for "hyperstagflation" and they defined it as an economy that does not grow for an extended period of time. One of the factors they cited was the effect of the baby boomer generation and that they may have reached their spending peak. I do not think we will be able to spend our way out of the crises. If you cannot pay off one credit card, it makes no sense to go out and apply for another one and max it out too.



[edit on 14-7-2009 by icenine]

No ones lending, borrowing, making jobs, because this whole thing is orchestrated. The elite bankers wanted this to happen so they can make more policies to set up their secret agenda.

It's right in front of our eyes. If you checked the stock market on a daily basis, the DOW has not fell under 8,000 for the past month. If you really think about how it fluctuates, you cannot help and wonder if there is a old wizard behind the machine making the numbers up on a wim? (Analogy)

reply to post by Zosynspiracy


I'm an RN in CV surgery in Houston, TX. We are swamped too. We have two advantages, first our patients are older and many are on Medicare, the other is that they can't put off CV related issues. Other hospitals are cutting hours though and when I am going home I see the strip centers with more and more vacancies, car dealerships that have gone under, etc.. It's scary and I feel sorry for the people who aren't as fortunate as I am.

The usa has without a doubt been the market leader, the american dream, whatever you want ,if you are prepared to work hard ,then your dream is within your reach.
You work hard, earn plenty ,pay your taxes and the money ,lots of it flows,credit makes life so much easier(so you believe) everyone wants more , one way is to buy cheaper imports, your money goes further and so you can get far more.

Lots of countries who supply the usa with cheap goods now find that they can work hard and have a better quality of living ,(they can eat every day).
this situation continues for many years growing and growing until one day the bubble bursts,
now the usa is in deep problems, not being able to buy as much as before, so cutback and buy less, more people lose their jobs, less taxes are paid and now the country suffers, but struggles. recession, if the government don,t sort this problem out soon (they must) it can go into depression.
the countries that supplied the usa stopped selling their cheap goods, so now the fully laden ships don,t get unloaded at the docks, but the ships keep coming until they stop, the ships don,t get loaded in china no more cause the ships ain,t empty, their warehouses are full, so work for them stops,
now there is less food ,after many good years money stops coming in.
due to world recession other markets dry up.

i am not a well educated person but i think that we (the people of the world) should start working for the common good of all.

start from the bottom up,lets start producing more food,get back to basics, work for each other and our own needs,if the people of the world can have the basic needs then that will be more than some have now,

remove the greed factor, if we don,t have a job lets see if we can do anything that benefits, you aint got to kill yourselves, try and bring a joy back to living. smile, sing ,give of ourselves,make others happy, makes us more happy.
Underneath we are all made with the same stuff .
President Obama, you was a baby once who depended on someone else, now you are the most important person in the world, let the people of the world depend on you.
I never thought i would say this, the new world order is the only way this problem can be solved, and i think we all know it,
i dont think we have a choice anymore, our childrens future is formed by our decisions, lets hope we get it right. amen.

I read this article earlier today and was happy to see that it was posted on ATS. Here in Colorado we are only at 7.6% unemployment right now but I have noticed a lot of changes of late:

- I have several friends who work for large corporations who have had to take pay cuts of 10% or more. One of them is now working only three days per week so that is almost a 50% cut in pay.

- I have noticed a striking decrease in traffic around the area. I drove to a store about 8:00 PM the other night and the streets were almost empty. I drive to a Park-n-ride and take the bus from there to work. A year ago I often had to park out in the dirt because the lot was totally full. Now days it is usually only half full.

- There are a lot of stores that have closed in the area. Big chains like Linens-n-Things, CompUSA, Circuit City as well as mom and pop stores. In one local shopping mall more than half of the stores have closed. It is so empty there it is creepy and my wife won't shop there alone even in the day. A few days ago my son drove to the local Checker Auto Parts to get a headlight for his car - it was closed.

- On Saturday my wife and I went to a shopping center that had a BestBuy and an Office Depot. We counted about 15 cars in the parking lot for both stores - ON A SATURDAY!

- I also have a daughter home from college for the summer. Her plan was to get a job and earn money so she could go back to school in the fall. After at least 75 applications and 10 or so interviews she hasn't found anything. Not only that, none of her friends in the same situation have found jobs either.

It is always interesting to read the facts and figures about the economy, but I also just trust what I see. I see a very weak economy getting weaker and I am sure people in other areas are suffering even more. I don't have much hope that our politicians can fix this mess. They are too busy blaming each other to come up with any real solutions. I expect that we are in for much tougher times that will eventually (hopefully) lead to our current crop of political fools being thrown out of office. I sincerely hope that we, collectively, can find a political solution to this problem because if we don't the alternative will be violent conflict.

"We need to stop importing and increase local production"
"The bankers and govt. are controlling everything, we should localise power"
"Workers need to unite to give the proverbial finger to the healthcare industry"
"We should print a local IOU currency for payments from the govt., not print more money and hyperinflate the economy"
"We need to have an industry-based economy and increase local production (without addressing the core issue of the matter: that we consume too much useless crap) so that the whole country works in industry, and we can track the production and give the workers daily updates on choco rations"
"We should reinforce local ideals and traditions, for the good of the country, not for the good of the exported jobs (to some foreign country where we don't give a crap about whether or not they have jobs)"

and now...

"We should have a resource-based economy rather than a fiat currency based upon speculation by rich people with no grasp of the fate of the planet. If we don't work together, we will all die"

Where have I heard all this before?

...

Oh, yes, that's right, STALINIST RUSSIA, NAZI GERMANY, MAOIST CHINA, and the soon-to-come GORIST AMERIKA.


Fool mankind once, shame on us. Fool us twice... you can't, you can't get fooled again.

Shame on you, shame on you all.

On a completely different topic, in response to a question about the cap-and-trade scam/scheme...

The PTB are committing economic suicide because they are testing us to see if we are mature enough as a species to pull ourselves out of the depression without starting a resource/manpower war. If we have matured since WW2, we will vehemently protest against the police state, refuse military service, and look inward rather than outward for the solutions. If we HAVEN'T matured since WW2, we will happily sit by whilst yet another fascist takes over the world, enslaves us all, and sugar coats it under another BS guise, the flavour of this century being "green ethics".

The ball is in your court now.

Goldman Sachs just paid out millions in bonuses for their 3 billion dollar profit for the quarter - yer - 3 billion dollars - how did they do it - they have cornered the automatic trading market - in other words - machines make high speed bets, sales and purchases based on the other companies activities - as the company grows, and grows these bets can become more and more effective as they take over the market - almost 60% of all trades on the US stock market were automated by Goldman....

This has been the number one driver of the stock market - a machine sitting in a room with lights flashing - so much for jobs.

But what dose this mean - well it simply means that Goldman has screwed you all big time, it has taken massive profits straight from the economy, this money wasn't created through production or value added process - it was through speculation which must be paid for by others losses and is therefore coming STRAIGHT out of the economy, literally sucking money straight out of the economy.

Which your law makers absolutely LOVED...but also means that treasury prices will fall off a cliff driving up yields and hence mortage rates - which in turn will make MORE profits for this bank WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY driving more people to lose their homes - wow - you gotta love a good scam.

www.reuters.com...

money.cnn.com...

blogs.reuters.com...

business.timesonline.co.uk...

Good work people.

reply to post by stmichael


Speak for Yourself why don't You. I don't work for anyone except for my own family. I don't work tons of overtime at 18 hours a day going on for 3 months without a day off so some kid in africa can have a meal. You talk like communism is the cure all for all of our ills. What You fail to realize is people are different and their is always going to be people that don't want to work while others work more than 2 people. So how on earth are You going to implement this great plan. Please I would like to know and I am sure all the truckers and the merchant mariners would like to know to. So how on earth could You make it worth while to them because guess what they don't work 40 hours a week like You. Do You think they should make the same money as everyone else but have to spend 3X as much time as work? I think You do because like everyone that does just enough to get by You want everyone else to suffer as You have suffered.

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Spartak_FL

 

I live in Cincinnati, you are seeing more and more of a Detroit like attitude here, are jobs are being packed up and sent overseas or to another part of the country. Construction as all but halted and police and firefighters are next on the list to go. Just tank the damn economy already so we can lynch you bastards and fix it our selfs.

I have heard of the police force (inner city) laying off a decent amount of people.

Has construction ever been a big part of Cincinnati itself? It just seems more and more rots away in this once industrial city...

I never got the chance to visit Detroit (passing through soon though), but I hear it is one of the worst cities in the country.

It's articles like these that government doesn't want hitting mainstream. Why? Because the general public are stupid to these issues and their would be a mass panic, which would be bad.

My Opinion: The government had to do something even though it is in the name of short-term gain and preventing a mass panic of people. It is ridiculous that they would even try something as stupid as a bunch of stimulus's but again, they had to do something. It doesn't seem to have done much, though, just satisfied the general public. I do think people shouldn't be kept in the dark about this, it is educational and helps people understand the consequences to greed (they must think now "Oh I can be greedy, the government will save me if I screw up!")... I'm gonna go brood some more on the incompetence of this nation...

[edit on 7/14/09 by MoothyKnight]