EU 'should sink immigrant boats'

Wait:
You mean giving any foreigner that wants money access to welfare simply because they land in your country hasn't kept them out!
That illegal immigrants are already rioting in France just to get into the U.K.?

You forget that - as long as the "migrants" can be assured that Western Europeans will treat them kindly, feed and clothe them until (actually "if") they are deported back to their homelands - they will keep coming.

Illegal immigration to the U.S. (as an example) from Mexico and other Central/South American nations will not be curtailed by an open benefits system and scant immigration reform/enforcement, just like one can never expect that paying the bully will keep him off one's back.

Yes, blowing them out of the water is a tad drastic but - considering the minimal efforts to otherwise reduce/curtal illegal immigration made by Western Europe's governments and the benefits those that want to emigrate illegally can expect:
The only thing certain is that those hounding the authorities to allow such illegal immigration to continue will deem whatever attempts are made to limit such immigration "extreme", "racist"....

We are all born to this earth. Just because you live in one area doesnt mean you have to stay there. This Earth was given to us to share, and we are doing a bloody bad job about it.
We complain because of illegal immigrants. Has anyone ever stopped to consider that WE put these people in this position, but allowing those countries that they come from to Abuse them, or the country is unable to support and feed them.
Does this not make you think that perhaps we should all be a bit more accepting of our brothers and sisters that are struggling.
Why should we not offer them food and clothing. Is their life worth less than your!

Lets have a good look at what you said and i qoute;


Firstly;

Q: Where in the OP did I mention that Africans were using planes to illegally migrate???

A:

EU 'should sink immigrant boats'

In case this jerk hasn't realised it, we live in a time where crossing oceans is fairly easy. There's lots of ways to do it, whether by boat or by plane.

============= lets also remind ourselves my answer that spurned said question: '' on rickety boats in the first place and then has the stupidity in the same post to mention and imply same africans can then can travel by sea on planes** ''

This is the same thread posting is it not so clear as day you have implied that africans can travel by plane

''we live in a time where crossing oceans is fairly easy. There's lots of ways to do it, whether by boat or by plane.''

Otherwise why make the comment in a thread about Africans trying to sail to the EU in boats??? Africans in boats are either WE or their not so what's the point in the comment??

Logic malfunction................

''Other immigrants use planes, every day, to enter the EU''

Where are other immigrants mentioned in this thread's premise?? Again this thread that mentions Africans sailing in boats to EU

Secondly:

Q: People have options to cross oceans. It is not possible to stop people crossing oceans.

A: Again obviously not when their making makeshift boats to get across the ocean in the first place instead of flying ir any of these other ''options'', and also ever heard of deportation and border controls?? Also theirs other ships out at sea you know, what if someone sets up a naval immigration task force to stop all boats??

Third:
Q: It is not possible to stop illegal immigration and it is not possible to secure borders

A: Righttttt coming from a guy in Australia one of the hardest places on earth to emigrate and immigrate too that just sounds comically stupid. Your country and Singapore are living proof that it pretty much can be done to an extent.



[edit on 8-7-2009 by SR]

Q: Only someone stupid would think that it's possible to stop illegal entry into a country, by any means, especially by stating that sea-routes should be closed.

A: Where did i say it was initally possible?? All i was talking about was the sea routes being closed to avoid loss of life. Your the one that happy to sea immigrants DIE and put themselves in harm. Again someone impying and jumping to conclusions to fast.


Q: Besides, I don't agree that immigration is illegal. People should be free to travel across the Earth whenever and wherever they like to. National identity and patriotism is a myth.

A: Let us all live in your house then? Let us all come to your country? I could do with a nice holiday in Melbourne thanks for offering mate.

Or are you gonna sit there and backtrack and come up with excuses.



[edit on 8-7-2009 by SR]

Originally posted by SR
Lets have a good look at what you said and i qoute;

Why are you bumping my thread with your off-topic nonsense?

You failed to properly read my first post and misinterpreted my remark about how easy it is to cross oceans and in your first post, you claimed that I was ignorant. Then you continue to imply lots of things that have not been implied. Maybe you should concentrate on the thread, as you're going way off-topic.

Go to bed and get some sleep. You're way off base with your rants in this thread. If you don't like the thread, then leave.

Originally posted by SR
A: Righttttt coming from a guy in Australia one of the hardest places on earth to emigrate and immigrate too that just sounds comically stupid. Your country and Singapore are living proof that it pretty much can be done to an extent.

This quote proves that you have no idea about how difficult it is to stop immigration by 'illegals' using boats.

Australia has an influx of immigrants every year, arriving in 'illegal' boats. Google the word 'Tampa' for one of the more popular cases.

As stated in this thread, we are all born on planet Earth. Restricting our freedom to move and live where we choose is petty territorial pissings by politicians.

The real issue is that Westerners aren't having enough children...

You don't have to fear being "overwhelmed" if you make Babies...

Boats of Africans would ...prevent inbreeding in said numbers if only the actual population of Europe wasn't in decline, they could be wanted as opposed to feared... useful.

I think it's high time we got over it and realized the two income family is a waste of time...

In most cases at least in the US often taxation via the spouse, male or female if much lesser simply leads with the cost of day care for even one child to LESS actual income anyway + a child not raised by parents effectively

perhaps it's time we in the West rethink our thinking in regards to children and population.

Sounds like a perfectly viable solution for a country to protect their national sovereignty. These kind of tactics are common place in Asian countries, like Thailand etc. For some reason when Europeans do it, it's called racism.

This is unbelievable.

Originally posted by The_Seeker
We are all born to this earth. Just because you live in one area doesnt mean you have to stay there.

But if "staying there" means that you are neither breaking a law nor being a drain on another country's overburdened welfare system?

As I've said elsewhere, "open borders for everyone!" is alright...until Third Worlders decide that they've had enough of starvation under corrupt regimes, and want to live in your house.

Originally posted by The_Seeker
We complain because of illegal immigrants. Has anyone ever stopped to consider that WE put these people in this position, but allowing those countries that they come from to Abuse them, or the country is unable to support and feed them.
Does this not make you think that perhaps we should all be a bit more accepting of our brothers and sisters that are struggling.
Why should we not offer them food and clothing. Is their life worth less than your!

And has anyone ever thought that - by accepting the "refuse" of Third World nations - the West is not only condoning but supporting
the social, economic and political decay, corruption and inefficiences that lead to such situations?

Think about it:
What causes illegal immigration? Is it the fault of the Utopian-seeming-with-its-benefits-system-West, or the fault of the very nations, societies and governments they are fleeing?

Yes, that's right: It's the fault of the countries they are leaving.
Illegal immigration is a symptom of the corrupt, overpopulated or whatever nation that is being left, therefore change must occur there to solve the problem.

By merely accepting the "wretched refuse" of other nations, the West is saying:
To Third-World governments: Don't bother with societal reform, anti-overpopulation measures or any other policies to increase the livelihood of your existing citizens - just send your excess to us!
To Third-World citizens: Why bother reforming your society from grassroots appeals or other means, when you can just emigrate illegally to the West?

To summarise: Your neighbour isn't going to clean up the pile of trash on his lawn if you continue cleaning whatever spills onto your side of the fence while keeping your mouth shut.

That has to be a violation of maritime law.The U.S.coastguard regularly pick these people up in their rickety craft.Mostly from Haiti and Cuba,and end up repatriating them.But many risk their lives and try to cross again!

Originally posted by Chaoticar


As I've said elsewhere, "open borders for everyone!" is alright...until Third Worlders decide that they've had enough of starvation under corrupt regimes, and want to live in your house.

Yeah, those rotten third worlders!

How DARE they get fed up living under their corrupt regimes? How DARE they seek a decent life! How DARE they try to live in houses!



Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? You do understand that it is completely the fault of formerly imperialist nations like England, France, United Provinces, Portugal.. etc (a.k.a. first world nations) that the third world even exists, right? Or did you forget what third world means?

Originally posted by Chaoticar
As I've said elsewhere, "open borders for everyone!" is alright...until Third Worlders decide that they've had enough of starvation under corrupt regimes, and want to live in your house.

That's where you're clearly wrong. I doubt that they would want to live in my house. I bet that they would rather live in their own house.

Earth should be a free planet with open borders. Closed borders equals closed, fearful mind.

Originally posted by drwizardphd
How DARE they get fed up living under their corrupt regimes? How DARE they seek a decent life! How DARE they try to live in houses!

Yes, I'm certain Mexico is a far better place than it was decades ago with all the illegal emigration to the United States!
And I suppose the "best way" for small towns to survive is that their residents just up-and-leave for the big cities, rather than investing in said towns?

Oh bother it. Just give them food, clothes, housing, and a spot in the welfare queue.
Maybe if we give them enough, they'll stop coming! Yeah, that's right - condone/ignore the darn problem that makes them leave in the first place! (Jesus Christ I sincerely hope you aren't in a medical profession...)

Originally posted by drwizardphd
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? You do understand that it is completely the fault of formerly imperialist nations like England, France, United Provinces, Portugal.. etc (a.k.a. first world nations) that the third world even exists, right? Or did you forget what third world means?

1. Have you opened a history book lately? There's some excellent sources here on British imperial policy, which show it as a wee bit more complex than "racist whites stealing from and exploiting the po' natives! (Hey, how're never-colonised Ethiopia and Liberia doing? Oh, that's right...)
2. Unless me and my family have just been transported back to the past, along with all the technological changes of the past decades and current events stationary, I believe we've seen a few decades since the end of colonialism, no?
The "colonialism-and-exploitation-is-why-we're-poor" excuse might have worked in the years following the collapse of the European empires, and even the fall of white-minority Zimbabwe and Apartheid South Africa, but it doesn't fly now. Sorry.

Originally posted by tezzajw
That's where you're clearly wrong. I doubt that they would want to live in my house. I bet that they would rather live in their own house.

Be that as it may, what about overcrowding - speaking of which, it's quite humourous when you factor in higher-than-normal birth-rates as well in the "increasing population" caused by this...well, "environmental degredation" comes to mind.
(Fun Fact: Despite these population increases caused by mass-legal-and-illegal-immigration, you'll never see a self-proclaimed "environmentalist" argue against current immigration levels.)

Originally posted by tezzajw
Earth should be a free planet with open borders. Closed borders equals closed, fearful mind.

I'm sure you can compete with people that have lived through worse fighting for a wage half or quarter of your current payout, paying exorbitant medical fees and battling rolling blackouts as your country's health and electrical infrastructure collapses under the strain of millions deciding that they "want a better life"...

"Open borders" will be a lot more complicated than "Yay! No passports! Cheaper travel!" everyone seems to think it is.

Shouldn't we expect families to want to better themselves, make a better life for their families. The fact they have to travel so far under such dangerous circumstances to try and find a better life. Does that not tell you something. many of us would do the same thing, if things became that desperate.

Its very easy for you to throw scorn on those trying to make a better life, while your sat behind your laptop in your warm safe house

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
Shouldn't we expect families to want to better themselves, make a better life for their families. The fact they have to travel so far under such dangerous circumstances to try and find a better life. Does that not tell you something. many of us would do the same thing, if things became that desperate.

Ever thought that their own countries could be in a far better state economically and politically if they actually stayed in their own countries and improved themselves there rather than traveling to our countries and leeched off of us?

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by SR
Lets have a good look at what you said and i qoute;

Why are you bumping my thread with your off-topic nonsense?

You failed to properly read my first post and misinterpreted my remark about how easy it is to cross oceans and in your first post, you claimed that I was ignorant. Then you continue to imply lots of things that have not been implied. Maybe you should concentrate on the thread, as you're going way off-topic.

Go to bed and get some sleep. You're way off base with your rants in this thread. If you don't like the thread, then leave.

Originally posted by SR
A: Righttttt coming from a guy in Australia one of the hardest places on earth to emigrate and immigrate too that just sounds comically stupid. Your country and Singapore are living proof that it pretty much can be done to an extent.

This quote proves that you have no idea about how difficult it is to stop immigration by 'illegals' using boats.

Australia has an influx of immigrants every year, arriving in 'illegal' boats. Google the word 'Tampa' for one of the more popular cases.

As stated in this thread, we are all born on planet Earth. Restricting our freedom to move and live where we choose is petty territorial pissings by politicians.

One minute your thanking me for bumping your thread and the next your moaning about it.. strueth all mighty make your mind up

Again DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT SAY:

''we live in a time where crossing oceans is fairly easy. There's lots of ways to do it, whether by boat or by plane.''

So who or what are African immigrants in your opinion if they are not ''WE'' i.e. living breathing human beings.

Stop trying to wriggle your way out of it my reading skills are just fine thank you know matter what time of the day.

You know full well you implied that the african immigrants on their boats in the article could travel by plane otherwise you wouldn't of made such a flippant remark.

So answer the question like you demanded back in the first page off me after you where implying things i didn't say either. You clearly said those words now man up and take responsiblity for what you said.

You f'd up pure and simple mate and you've been caught out, that's concentration for you, i've re-read all the posts dillingently and everything still stands.

There's a clear difference between what i haven't said in the thread and what's been implied and a what has been said in the thread by you and has been implied.

If you can dish it out then howcome you can't take your own style of debating back?? Just admit it and move on.

The Tampa got turned back so what's your point? every 'modern' country has an influx of immigrants each year it doesn't mean that

A. The way immigration occurs because of the desperation of these people can't be at least tried to be made safer in any way

B. Immigation can't be regulated in more effective and other ways than the extreme of shooting boats out of the sea

C. Immigration can't be discouraged

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
Shouldn't we expect families to want to better themselves, make a better life for their families. The fact they have to travel so far under such dangerous circumstances to try and find a better life. Does that not tell you something. many of us would do the same thing, if things became that desperate.

Its very easy for you to throw scorn on those trying to make a better life, while your sat behind your laptop in your warm safe house

I want to make a better life for myself so what's your address mate and i'll pack my bags and come over.

Originally posted by Chaoticar
I'm sure you can compete with people that have lived through worse fighting for a wage half or quarter of your current payout, paying exorbitant medical fees and battling rolling blackouts as your country's health and electrical infrastructure collapses under the strain of millions deciding that they "want a better life"...

I don't want to compete with them. I would prefer to coexist with them.

Why shouldn't they want a better life? Why should the 'better life' be reserved for elitist pricks who think that they run the planet?

We can't all live the obscene lifestyle that actors/sportsstars/billionaires/popstars live. I would bet that most of us would be content with a house, food on the table and a car to get them around. Anything more is lavish luxury. Look what the people in the third-world live with... nothing.

They're humans. They don't deserve to live their life worse than lots of other people's pets do.

Originally posted by solidshot

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
Shouldn't we expect families to want to better themselves, make a better life for their families. The fact they have to travel so far under such dangerous circumstances to try and find a better life. Does that not tell you something. many of us would do the same thing, if things became that desperate.

Ever thought that their own countries could be in a far better state economically and politically if they actually stayed in their own countries and improved themselves there rather than traveling to our countries and leeched off of us?

How can you improve yourself when your working for a dollar a day, have you tried it, feeding your family on a $. Yeah, they need to get back to them sweat shops, so we can keep wearing our nice clothes at bargain prices. How do you think we get to live the lifestyles we lead?, it's because we have leeched of these third world countries. exploiting their labor and resources, so we can live in a life we are a custom too.

reply to post by SR

Hey, thanks for bumping my thread again with your off-topic nonsense. You really need to learn to let go of things that are trivially unimportant. I can't help that you misread my OP, it's your problem, not mine. I can't help that you called me ignorant in your first post, it's your problem, not mine. That's your private rant to stew about.

Did you read what happened to the Tampa after it got turned back?

Australia has to deal with a lot of 'illegal' immigrants each year. Did you know that there's a place called Woomera that used to house detention centres for 'illegal' immigrants? Look it up and see how civilised Australia was to already desperate people.

[edit on 9-7-2009 by tezzajw]