Have Bush/Cheney ever done anything that is actually illegal? Nope!

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by adamc3

 

Did the Supreme Court find anything Bush/Cheney did to be illegal or even legally torture?

Nothing has been challenged yet. But keep in mind the Supreme Court will only hear cases that deal with American's constitutional rights. Because of the way many of the powers under the Patriot Act are structured, intrusions and violations of civil rights are classified. Nobody would ever know that their right were violated, or they would not be able to get any proof. It is a very well written Act because no law can be ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court if a case is never able to be brought, genius really.

Torture, again not American citizen. No case.

[edit on 18-6-2009 by adamc3]

reply to post by adamc3


Ahh very good post. I appreciate your input.

So who would have to find Bush/Cheney guilty of torture then?


[edit on 18-6-2009 by grapesofraft]

reply to post by grapesofraft

but you did understand tailwaggers to a bunch of pedophiles though right?
cause thats the one that matters

reply to post by randyvs


Sorry maybe I am dumb but I did not get that either. You are like the Riddler

[edit on 18-6-2009 by grapesofraft]

reply to post by grapesofraft


you said it.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by adamc3

 

So the question is were Bush and Cheney found guilty or was it just deemed a violation of the law for the method of wire tapping that was used by whateve government agency did it. I am sure Bush and Cheney were not personally running around tapping peoples phones in their spare time.

No they werent found guilty. The case a that the judge ruled on was some Islamic organization that was suing the Gov. They only found out that they were being illegally wire tapped on accident. They were mistakenly given a document that verified it, naturally the gov demanded the doc. be returned.

They will never be found guilty of anything. There problem was that they were too secretive about the inner workings of their admin. They also did a number of things that would imply they were trying to hide their activities, like Cheney claiming that he was not part of the Executive branch or the Legislative branch and therefore congress had no oversight over his memo's.

reply to post by randyvs


LMAO, I did say it Mr. Riddler. Are you going to tell me what tailwagging pedophiles means?

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by adamc3

 

Ahh very good post. I appreciate your input.

So who would have to find Bush/Cheney guilty of torture then?


[edit on 18-6-2009 by grapesofraft]

A couple of things could happen

An American citizen would have to prove that he was tortured and that it was directly ordered by Bush/Cheney. Very Very unlikely.

The Senate could hold a trial, without a plaintiff even. They could deem waterboarding torture, but that would be difficult because they were briefed on it.

or

If they could prove some kind of torture that they didnt approve was used they could use that.

or

The Justice Department could start an investigation.

or

If Obama decided to sign the treaty that would allow the world court to prosecute American's (I have no idea if Obama is considering this or not, I only know that Bush refused to sign the treaty) The world court could bring a case for crimes against humanity, war crimes or whatever.

Again none of these will ever happen.

reply to post by adamc3


Bush was wise not to buy into that world court crap. Then we just put our soldiers and politicians up to be arrested for whatever the rest of the world disagrees with us. I mean they accuse us of killing citizens intentionally when we have killed less citizens in the last few wars than any government at war in history.

reply to post by grapesofraft


Well they couldnt just charge Americans with anything, it is a respectable court. They deal primarily with genocide. There is torture far worse that what the US is accused of going on in most Middle Eastern countries. None of them are being charged. There was a President of some African nation that was wanted by World Court to stand trial, he said no. They dont have the power to extradite or force anyone to stand trial.

[edit on 18-6-2009 by adamc3]

Originally posted by grapesofraft
I hear lots of people accusing Bush and Cheney of commiting all kind of crimes but nobody ever has a shred of proof. Nothing! Nada!

They have been accused of:
1. Being behind 911
2. Stealing all of our rights
3. Killing people
4. Stealing money
5. Trying to lead a coup
6. Trying to murder their friends
7. Torturing people
ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I know you could say that they tortured, but they did Improvised Interrogation with the approval of the Justice Dept and the approval of the Congress people that were briefed. So it is hard to call that illegal, or if it is then all of those people are guilty as well.

So somebody show me something they actually did illegally with proof. It is easy to just spout off accusations that are unsubstantiated, but not so easy to back up the trash talk.

How would any of you like it if I ran around the world spouting off or posting on the internet accusations about you without any evidence what so ever (Only speculation and made up stories)?

[edit on 17-6-2009 by grapesofraft]

Try reading, and understanding, the Constitution. Educate yourself on the genius the founding fathers of this nation put into it's protections and safeguards that were meant to be followed. Their intentions were laid out in a perfect set of unchangeable statutes that secure all men, women, and children of this country from any enemy within it's borders. Unfortunately, even the most perfectly thought out plan possible to assure this is only effective when followed and upheld. It is the responsibility of the citizens, of which it is there to protect, to make certain, above all else, that it never be challenged. To live by it's guidelines and defend it's purpose at any cost. To abandon or ignore it is done at our own peril, without it we have little strength!

The sad truth is that it has been ignored and abandon. Most Americans today have little to no understanding of it's meaning or value. Ignorantly, they live as if they cannot be effected by anyone or anything around them? Even while they have lost important rights and freedoms given them by this document, still there is little concern for where it's leading them? When it's gone they will finally understand it's precious value, only it will be too late. This was forewarned, yet still ignorance prevails.

The Bush administration has most certainly violated laws of, not only this nation, but laws instilled by all nations of the world. Torture, specifically water boarding, is a crime the US has convicted others of doing in the past and can not be justified by any means whatsoever. They have admitted to doing it, that's proof. Violating Americans right to privacy by wire tapping is a clear crime against the Constitution and cannot be changed by the courts. They admitted it, that's proof. Invading Iraq, and now Pakistan, without congressional approval is also a crime against the Constitution. Lying to congress and manufacturing false evidence to obtain approval for war equates to multiple crimes. That's proof. Dealing nuclear weapons secrets to Israel is multiple crimes. Outing Valerie Plame. Vote fraud. The list goes on. What exactly don't you understand? What proof is enough?

Just because a crime goes unpunished does not change the fact it is a crime! When those that commit crime are in control of the punishment of crime, what else would you expect? But what is not expected are people like you that are ignorant of our countries laws and Constitution and gladly stand aside accepting it.

You are simply traitorous and a complete embarrassment to this country. Here is a little clue about government. They all break the law! But your choice to defend has gone far beyond criminal. You choose to speak up for a group that's gone way past crime for mere profit, you, my ignorant friend, are defending those that have successfully attacked your most precious assets! Your treasonous, murderous role models have violated everything you would hold sacred, had you the sense to understand it. What possible delusion are you suffering to come to such conclusions?

Congress cannot legalize torture of the citizens of the world! Violating unchangeable laws in the Constitution are not "unsubstantiated" no matter how gullible you are?!

Please educate yourself on what America stands for and affords you. What you can lose, as well as what has been lost already. Do you not see the damage that has been done? Death, war, housing, unemployment, etc...?

What a shameful thing it is to see America being destroyed! The only thing worse is seeing an actual American citizen defending those destroying it? What a damn shame!

Peace.

reply to post by Zerbst
[more

A couple of things:
The Constitution is changeable, it's been done 27 times.

Congress gave the President authority to invade Iraq, and fight terrorism (pakistan)

Wire taping American's can be done if national security is claimed.

Congress was not lied to, was the admin wrong absolutely but congress had access to all the information and could decide on their own, the CIA's NIE on Iraq stated that there was no proof of WMD in Iraq and if there were Saddam wouldnt use them offensively.

Outing Plame wasnt a illegal, Libby was charged with perjury not leaking classified info.


I agree with you that it's all of them, all the people in Washington practice CYA politics. I think they should all be voted out.


[edit on 18-6-2009 by adamc3]

The US President is required to follow a congressional declaration of war before invading any country. He did not get such a declaration of war before invading Iraq in 2003. Therefore, he is a war criminal. He deserves punishment immediately. He belongs in prison. And the proof is in the list of congressional action in 2003. You will find no declaration of war. There will be your proof if you decide to look. Will you admit there is proof of criminal action after going through the 2003 congressional activity? If so, what will you do about it?

reply to post by truthquest


The President can invade a country/deploy troops for up to 90 without approval from Congress. - War Powers Act
Bush got the approval first.

The President needs a declaration of war from Congress in order to declare war.
War was not declared. Congress authorized Bush in the Iraq War Resolution to use force against Iraq and gave many reason to justify it.
This was the authority used to invade Iraq not a declaration of war.



[edit on 18-6-2009 by adamc3]

[edit on 18-6-2009 by adamc3]

Of course there's no proof. They're sneaky bastards, doesn't mean they never did anything illegal. COMMON SENSE

Besides, Bush doesn't have to do anything illegal. He's the biggest murderer of the 21st century, making war legal doesn't make it right, especially when its for money.

It's becoming too easy to loose sight of whats important when the laws are screwed up.

reply to post by grapesofraft


"The war on terror began about 1 second after the first plane hit the first WTC."


Actually Grapes, being an outsider of the US, and a very nuetral party to all of these discussions, it is in my belief and many others that the war on terror was pre-meditated due to the controversy over the whole 9/11 investigations...honestly, every bit of evidence i have seen from both the government and the media and also the people has shown me that 9/11 was another pearl harbour and a reason to push forward with the war on Iraq in order to establish links with vital resources of all kinds.

"Believe in yourself and the power of the human mind, and not that of Fiction thrown in our faces from the idiot box every day."

reply to post by Zerbst



You my friend, are one of the only smart and aware people on this subject providing a good rebuttle and well known facts by all people around the world. S&f

reply to post by grapesofraft



Its a lame argument you have given here really, I could ask you to prove that cheney-bush are NOT guilty of any crime the argument go's both ways!

It is pure ignorance to say that just because they have not been convicted of a crime,one must not have been committed.

i break the law every week probably and im not convicted, does that make me a saint?

And you picked the biggest asshats to try and defend? i thought it was common knowledge that this dynamic duo was up to no good?

I find it disgusting that cheney was the secretary of defense and dodged the draft 5 TIMES!

Much like GWB who dodged the draft and then sent thousands if not hundred's of thousands of good people on both side's to an untimely death!

I dont need nobody to tell me that they didnt break the law anybody with a SHRED of MORAL right or wrong can tell you they did!

But some people just eat up what they are told like good sheeple and believe that GWB and Cheney are hero's.

Their faces should be carved into a mountain like MT rushmore but ten time's bigger, They should illegally hold 'enemy combatants' and waterboard them into building it for them

How do you guys end up in conspiracy forums really? No wonder people think disinfo agents are all around. Cant you just take one look at his insincere face and tell that he is living with some horrid secrets.
When the whole system is crooked and gangsters make your laws does it even matter what is illegal and what is not.
Now watch this drive.

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by king9072

 

If you was told something by someone you trusted and you told someone else. Would you be guilty of perjury if that info turned out to be false?

There are tons of reports that they were conducting training exercises which included scenarios of planes being flown into buildings.

In the days after the attacks, practically every member of the administration came out and said things to the tune of "we had no idea", "noone could have imagined this", "there were no warning signs".

So theres something they absolutely knew was untrue, yet they went around saying it.

This was before they launched 2 illegal wars in which they gave over 30 FALSE reasons for. So to say there is no proof of any wrong doing is ignorant at best.

Leave the forum trolls, both of you, JD140 as well. Your only purpose is to stir the pot, and you make an ass out of yourself every time you write a post. Get a grip, have a nap, call your mom, then come back and write real posts.


Just to review some of the 30+ reasons for the ILLEGAL invasion of IRAQ.
- Saddam had biological weapons
- Because Iraq supported alqaeda
- Because Saddam was a ruthless tyrant who murdered his own people(like hes the worst... come on..)
- Whether or not he had WMD - he wanted them
- Iraq may have been involved in anthrax attacks (even tho it was later discovered it was military grade anthrax from a domestic military installation)
- Iraq is weak and should be trounced
- Iraq is a danger to the entire world
- Iraq is a threat to the US
- Iraq is a danger to its neighbors
- Iraq hasn't upheld UN resolutions
- Saddam is evil
- Attacking iraq would spread democracy in the region
- We dont know iraqs intentions
- It would send a message to countries aiding terrorists
- For the sake of the children
- Invading iraq would lead to world peace
- Iraq was trying to get or develop nukes
- Iraq must be invaded to protect freedom
- Saddam was violating international law by developing WMD
- Because of the way history will judge us
- Because saddam hates the US

MOST OUT RIGHT FABRICATED LIES, TOLD TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION TO LAUNCH AN ILLEGAL INVASION AND SYSTEMATICALLY DESTROY DOMESTIC RIGHTS.

[edit on 18-6-2009 by king9072]