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Neighbors are forcing neighbors into foreclosure
page: 1share:
Neighbors are forcing neighbors into foreclosure
[url=http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FORECLOSURE_BY_NEIGHBOR?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2009-06-11-15-11-26]hosted.ap.org[/url ]
(visit the link for the full news article)
IRVING, Texas (AP) -- Thousands of Americans who have generally kept up with their mortgages are still in danger of losing their homes because they made a fateful trade-off in this shaky economy - they let their homeowner association dues slide.
Many homeowners are learning to their surprise that condo and neighborhood associations that oversee security patrols, mow lawns, plant flowers and clean the community swimming pool may have the right to foreclose when dues aren't paid.
All I can say is WOW. These facist "neighborhood associations" should be illegal. How can some one else dictate to you how your house or property
should look. I understand that safety risks like unkempt laws should be addressed but these guys are over the top. Now they can essentially cause
people severe hardship even when they are having a hard enough time. They are saying since you can't afford dues you can't have a house. This is wrong
and should be investigated.
[url=http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FORECLOSURE_BY_NEIGHBOR?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2009-06-11-15-11-26]hosted.ap.org[/url ]
(visit the link for the full news article)
[url=http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FORECLOSURE_BY_NEIGHBOR?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2009-06-11-15-11-26]hosted.ap.org[/url ]
(visit the link for the full news article)
Why anybody would move into an "association" is beyond me. These people just love paying fees so much that property taxes arent enough on top of the
mortgage but they want to pay "association" fees as well?
People must love having bills.
While I'm at it property tax is little more than the government "association" fee. A feudal share-cropping racket if there ever was one. Keep smilin' and payin'. Land of the freeish.
People must love having bills.
While I'm at it property tax is little more than the government "association" fee. A feudal share-cropping racket if there ever was one. Keep smilin' and payin'. Land of the freeish.
In some parts of the country avoiding an association is next to impossible. In parts of San Diego County most of the new home sbuilt in the last few
years are considered PUDs and have associations.
As for foreclosing, if an association tried to foreclose, they'd likely get no money at all. They are in position behind a First Trust Deed, possibly a second trust deed, then property taxes. THey'd have to forclose, then sell the property (for less than what is owed, likely) payoff the 1st TD, then the 2nd if one exists, plus pay the property taxes. They'd end up losing more money than they are owed.
While thay have the legal right to foreclose, it's not likely unless the property is owned "free and clear"
As for foreclosing, if an association tried to foreclose, they'd likely get no money at all. They are in position behind a First Trust Deed, possibly a second trust deed, then property taxes. THey'd have to forclose, then sell the property (for less than what is owed, likely) payoff the 1st TD, then the 2nd if one exists, plus pay the property taxes. They'd end up losing more money than they are owed.
While thay have the legal right to foreclose, it's not likely unless the property is owned "free and clear"
I have no sympathy for them.
Who is stupid enough to buy a house and agree to pay a certain amount to live in the neighborhood?
Who is stupid enough to buy a house and agree to pay a certain amount to live in the neighborhood?
A home association is intended to protect the property value of the neighborhood. They are not evil. As far as I know you have to be told prior to
purchasing the house there is a HOA. Every home owner dreads a new neighbor moving in who lets their house fall apart, never does yardwork, and piles
trash everywhere.
reply to post by Layla
But they are doing it. This isn't one of those "they might" sort of things. They are actually forclosing on people and kicking them out even thought they are making their house payment. They are just unable to afford certain luxuries. So that makes them undeserving of keeping their house?
Gauging the number of foreclosures nationwide by homeowner association is difficult. But in Texas, foreclosure attempts initiated by homeowner associations in 19 counties are up 30 percent from two years ago, according to Dallas-based Foreclosure Listing Services.
In the San Antonio area alone, foreclosure actions by homeowner associations jumped to 170 in April from 21 in April 2008, according to RexReport.com.
But they are doing it. This isn't one of those "they might" sort of things. They are actually forclosing on people and kicking them out even thought they are making their house payment. They are just unable to afford certain luxuries. So that makes them undeserving of keeping their house?
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
In the Denver area, most neighborhoods are covenant controlled (from what I see while house hunting). Whilst some may think it is a ridiculous idea, I do not. Most HOA dues cover the maintenance of common areas, playgrounds that the HOA provides and many of the neighborhoods have swimming pools - covered in the HOA due. There are rules in a covenant neighborhood (no crap all over your yard, no abandoned vehicles sitting in front of the house, must maintain the appearance of your lawn, etc) - but this is good for the neighborhood. Sorry, but I do not want to live in a neighborhood where other people trash their homes and yards and have dead cars up on cinder blocks being worked on. I prefer a nice maintained neighborhood - and unfortunately - the way to get many of these neighborhoods here is to pay an HOA fee.
The quality of HOA neighborhoods can be very different than those that are not.
Now before anyone jumps on me, im not saying all non-covenant neighborhoods are crap. Im just saying that some are from my house hunting.
So, I guess you can call me stupid.
Now, in regards to not paying the HOA dues and getting foreclosed on. Im not sure about that, but it is something I would look into.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
[edit on 6/11/2009 by greeneyedleo]
reply to post by LeaderOfProgress
"Foreclosure attempts" is far different than actual foreclosure. Anyone can attempt anything. Actually succeeding is an entirely different thing.
I'd like to see the numbers that show the SUCCESS of such attempts, then I'd worry.
"Foreclosure attempts" is far different than actual foreclosure. Anyone can attempt anything. Actually succeeding is an entirely different thing.
I'd like to see the numbers that show the SUCCESS of such attempts, then I'd worry.
I know sometime in Calif if a home is sold for back taxes or seized under drug seizure laws and sometime sold by probate court the state does not
list on the deed anything about it being a home under neighborhood associations.HOA.
If this happens and the new owner refuses to join the HOA the HOA can do nothing to the NEW owner IF the NEW owner never acknowledges or ever pays there dues. IF he does pay the dues he then acknowledges there jurisdiction.
I know a lawyer that has done this and has been taken to court and won the case. he bought a home at a drug asset sale and the deed shows nothing about it being under a HOA.
The Judge told the HOA that they should have bought it and resold it if they had wanted it to remain under there rules.
In some areas of Calif the fact that a home comes under a HOA depresses the value of a home by 10% or more.
And the fact that a home is under a HOA MUST be disclosed before sale.
if it is not disclosed and the deed does not say its under a HOA that is a loophole that will stand up in court.
If this happens and the new owner refuses to join the HOA the HOA can do nothing to the NEW owner IF the NEW owner never acknowledges or ever pays there dues. IF he does pay the dues he then acknowledges there jurisdiction.
I know a lawyer that has done this and has been taken to court and won the case. he bought a home at a drug asset sale and the deed shows nothing about it being under a HOA.
The Judge told the HOA that they should have bought it and resold it if they had wanted it to remain under there rules.
In some areas of Calif the fact that a home comes under a HOA depresses the value of a home by 10% or more.
And the fact that a home is under a HOA MUST be disclosed before sale.
if it is not disclosed and the deed does not say its under a HOA that is a loophole that will stand up in court.
Homeowners aren't without blame in this instance. Before you buy a house with a homeowner's association you have to sign a legal and binding
document saying that you agree to their by-laws, including the dues and penalties. If you don't read that document yet sign it anyway then that's
your own fault. If you don't agree with the by-laws then chances are you won't be buying the house because it's usually very difficult to change
by-laws when other homeowners have already agreed to them.
If you don't like HOAs all you can do is look for housing that doesn't have them. I live not too far from Irving as it's between Dallas and Fort Worth. There are still plenty of housing communities that don't have HOA attached to them.
[edit on 11-6-2009 by sos37]
If you don't like HOAs all you can do is look for housing that doesn't have them. I live not too far from Irving as it's between Dallas and Fort Worth. There are still plenty of housing communities that don't have HOA attached to them.
[edit on 11-6-2009 by sos37]
Originally posted by Layla
reply to post by LeaderOfProgress
"Foreclosure attempts" is far different than actual foreclosure. Anyone can attempt anything. Actually succeeding is an entirely different thing.
I'd like to see the numbers that show the SUCCESS of such attempts, then I'd worry.
See below snippet from the story.
In Florida, attorney Bob Tankel, who represents hundreds of homeowner and condo associations, said he has increased his staff from three to 16 in the past 18 months to handle a mounting caseload of 3,500 open collections. About one-fifth of those cases have reached foreclosure, he said.
The answer given is one-fifth of the cases.
reply to post by sos37
Not everyone is quick enough to catch all of the fine print. For most cases I doubt very seriously that the idea of not being able to pay the HOA fees ever crossed their mind. I am sure that like so many in the US they had no idea that this economic downturn was coming. These people had well paying jobs that got ate by the economy. Now the HOA's should be cutting people a break. After all they have been making a hefty profit all of these years.
Not everyone is quick enough to catch all of the fine print. For most cases I doubt very seriously that the idea of not being able to pay the HOA fees ever crossed their mind. I am sure that like so many in the US they had no idea that this economic downturn was coming. These people had well paying jobs that got ate by the economy. Now the HOA's should be cutting people a break. After all they have been making a hefty profit all of these years.
I have known some people who were forced to sell their condominiums in a hurry or risk having the condo association force its sale to collect back
dues.
Here in Miami many condos are having nightmare scenarios where sometimes more than half of the units are in foreclsoure or already bank property.
Banks are notorius for not paying association dues on empty units they own and the havoc dwindling association revenues is causing is critical in some buildings that can no longer pay electric bills for things like elevators and pool pumps, hallway lighting etc, fix leaky roofs and structural damages or mow and maintain common areas.
One building was entirely powered by a common water account that when it reached 20,000.00 in arears the entire building was shut off from the water mains, and one of the residents illegally hooked it back up which resulted in criminal charges!
I rent, they tell me you can't take anything with you when you go!
Here in Miami many condos are having nightmare scenarios where sometimes more than half of the units are in foreclsoure or already bank property.
Banks are notorius for not paying association dues on empty units they own and the havoc dwindling association revenues is causing is critical in some buildings that can no longer pay electric bills for things like elevators and pool pumps, hallway lighting etc, fix leaky roofs and structural damages or mow and maintain common areas.
One building was entirely powered by a common water account that when it reached 20,000.00 in arears the entire building was shut off from the water mains, and one of the residents illegally hooked it back up which resulted in criminal charges!
I rent, they tell me you can't take anything with you when you go!
I wouldn't ever buy a house in a neighborhood with an association. If I did find a house in a neighborhood with an association, I would have my
lawyer rewrite the contract and exclude me out of my dues.
I would take it to court if need be. They would have to prove to me that even though I'm buying the house and property I have no property rights. I'd probably lose, but it would be worth a try.
It's a violation of property rights is what it is.
I would take it to court if need be. They would have to prove to me that even though I'm buying the house and property I have no property rights. I'd probably lose, but it would be worth a try.
It's a violation of property rights is what it is.
reply to post by LeaderOfProgress
I wonder if HOA dues can be included in your mortgage payment and then collected in an escrow account like your homeowners insurance and paid at the end of the year? Something I've thought of before, but I've never looked into it.
I wonder if HOA dues can be included in your mortgage payment and then collected in an escrow account like your homeowners insurance and paid at the end of the year? Something I've thought of before, but I've never looked into it.
I know sometime in Calif if a home is sold for back taxes or seized under drug seizure laws and sometime sold by probate court the state does not
list on the deed anything about it being a home under neighborhood associations.HOA.
If this happens and the new owner refuses to join the HOA the HOA can do nothing to the NEW owner IF the NEW owner never acknowledges or ever pays there dues. IF he does pay the dues he then acknowledges there jurisdiction.
I know a lawyer that has done this and has been taken to court and won the case. he bought a home at a drug asset sale and the deed shows nothing about it being under a HOA.
The Judge told the HOA that they should have bought it and resold it if they had wanted it to remain under there rules.
In some areas of Calif the fact that a home comes under a HOA depresses the value of a home by 10% or more.
And the fact that a home is under a HOA MUST be disclosed before sale.
if it is not disclosed and the deed does not say its under a HOA that is a loophole that will stand up in court.
If this happens and the new owner refuses to join the HOA the HOA can do nothing to the NEW owner IF the NEW owner never acknowledges or ever pays there dues. IF he does pay the dues he then acknowledges there jurisdiction.
I know a lawyer that has done this and has been taken to court and won the case. he bought a home at a drug asset sale and the deed shows nothing about it being under a HOA.
The Judge told the HOA that they should have bought it and resold it if they had wanted it to remain under there rules.
In some areas of Calif the fact that a home comes under a HOA depresses the value of a home by 10% or more.
And the fact that a home is under a HOA MUST be disclosed before sale.
if it is not disclosed and the deed does not say its under a HOA that is a loophole that will stand up in court.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTravelerthe havoc dwindling association revenues is causing is critical in some buildings that can no longer pay electric bills for things like elevators and pool pumps...
Oh man, I dont know how you deal.
The most dramatic episode of The Hills yet.
I can see the weeping mothers holding their babies close. "The pools" they'll shout. "The pools are unclean!" What they dont realize is having to walk their pasty selves up stairs will leave their atrophied legs too tired for swimming and frolicking about anyway.
HOA's were good until they were given the power to foreclose on homes. EVERY LAST ONE THAT EXERCISES THIS POWER is corrupt. Fine me, call code
enforcement, I don't care but who in the hell do you think you are to take a major investment and my home away from me becasue I didn't follow your
aesthetic rules? HOA's are garbage plain and simple. A bunch of people that can't keep to themselves and feel the need to dictate how others should
live. No quarter here. BTW try and find out where the dues go and ask for monthly accounting and watch what happens.
[edit on 11-6-2009 by djvexd]
[edit on 11-6-2009 by djvexd]
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